Armerosswtor Posted December 5, 2019 Posted December 5, 2019 Looking to get into the game and have limited myself to SW. Really curious about everyone's opinions on these two as my main focus will be PvP. Thank you for the help!
KumbayaGOD Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 jugg is pretty straight forward and strong but mara you can stealth
NateCrazy Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 Both are pretty good, Jug you have the option to go tank obviously which brings another element to your gameplay on the one character. its really up to your preference i dont see one outperforming the other at this stage, mara has stealth to run off and heal, Jugg has better up front survivability. Fury for marauder, vengence for Jugg have fun!
Vertol Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 I play both and juggs are now in the worst spot they have ever been in pvp. Maras are pretty good tho
Jarbarian Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 Considering how way OP Juggernauts are right now, I am not sure why every single player in the game isn't playing one.
KendraP Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) Considering how way OP Juggernauts are right now, I am not sure why every single player in the game isn't playing one. Care to elaborate? With the low scaling of FD and the simple fact that the tactical that lets it be used more often under pressure in unavailable, what aspect of DPS guardians is OP? Keeping in mind that because the comparison is between sentinels and guardians, you are comparing dps specs. As to why everyone isnt playing a dps guardian, theres your answer. Squishy as crap under focus, with no way of avoiding it, and the best thing to use is now half a life every 2 minutes or 90 seconds with utility. Just to add, I personally dont want them to scale it up, because I got sick of listening to people like you since the last time they fixed it. Edited December 11, 2019 by KendraP
RACATW Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) Considering how way OP Juggernauts are right now, I am not sure why every single player in the game isn't playing one. ED heals for half of what it used to in 5.0. So I wouldnt really call juggs OP right now. They're in an even worse place than they were in 5.0 due to that. Since sins and ops were both very heavily buffed. Edited December 11, 2019 by RACATW
Jarbarian Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 Care to elaborate? With the low scaling of FD and the simple fact that the tactical that lets it be used more often under pressure in unavailable, what aspect of DPS guardians is OP? Keeping in mind that because the comparison is between sentinels and guardians, you are comparing dps specs. As to why everyone isnt playing a dps guardian, theres your answer. Squishy as crap under focus, with no way of avoiding it, and the best thing to use is now half a life every 2 minutes or 90 seconds with utility. Just to add, I personally dont want them to scale it up, because I got sick of listening to people like you since the last time they fixed it. Gee i dunno, getting 1/2 my health taken away in the first few seconds of a Jugg being on me, spending most of the time trying to run away and heal, only to work my tail off to see him at 10% then heal to full and one more stun/dead. It's ridiculously OP bullcrap.
Jarbarian Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 Oh and watching Jugg's top TPS, Healing and Protection. Flatly put, tank classes are too OP to be in PVP. If this is the way Tank DPS is going to be, I am FINE with them being banned from PVP. In fact, are you not looking at all the spam posts about "What spec do I pick as a Jugg in PVP?" There's a lot of them. Its OP. Probably your class (which is over-represented in PVP) so yeah, you don't want it nerfed but anyone else who gets their tails kicked every single match against a Jugg disagree. ITS OP AND NOT BALANCED!
Gyronamics Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) ED heals for half of what it used to in 5.0. Not false. On a sub 70 the scaling has ED healing for over 2x your healthbar. Hit 70 and it rescales to heal about 1x your healthbar. However it is worth noting that 6.0 includes a tactical to reduce ED to comically low CD levels so it's entirely possible that ED in 6.0 is how it is because of that. No one has it yet so anyone doing fine now is going to be more fine with ED potentially down to 30s. At least when it comes to soaking damage like a sponge. Edited December 11, 2019 by Gyronamics
KendraP Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) Who really cares about the healing sub 75, sub max level pvp is all about slaughtering whoever is low level. And theres also little point complaining about a tactical that doesnt exist yet, and who knows when it will. If I couldnt anticipate amplifiers being a giant waste of credits (which I did) for an actually slightly significant gain, we certainly aren't going to be talking about playstyles that don't exist (yet). On the exaggerated complaints from above: please, it seems like you main a sin, and theres at least 2 threads going off on sins being OP on this very page, see below. And if you notice, 2 of the 3 threads in this section talking about guardians are talking about skank tanks, who are tank specced, not dps specced. And in fact, if dps guardians were so amazing, why would people gimp their dps to go tank spec. And don't start with the nonsense about tanks doing the same damage as dps. Unless your dps are sad, they don't. If I have to go into how the scoreboard displays overall damage and computes dps again, I will. In a thread talking about mara vs jugg, it would seem obvious the comparison is about dps specs. The most immediately comparable being focus vs concentration as it was the shared tree. And in that comparison the burst is comparable, mara has the better kit to stay on target, the same or better DCDs and an antifocus tool, while guardians have guard, taunt, and self heals every 90s or 2 min. In the case of sin, you also have guard, and taunt, and one of the 2 best anti focus tools in the game. On top of better burst (if deception), and the ability to switch tacticals. Heres one mentioning deception: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=973086 And heres another one that mentions sins and tactical swapping: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=973205 Note that I havent commented in any of those threads, nor am I stating my opinion on the perception. I havent levelled a sin to 75 yet, mine is still 70. Also, I play both guardian and sentinel, all specs of guardian, maining a tank. And watchman and focus sentinels. Blatant exaggeration does not help your case. Edited December 11, 2019 by KendraP
Gyronamics Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 Who's complaining about a tactical. I thought that was all pretty factual.
Jarbarian Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 I'm NOT talking about Sub 75 PVP. I am talking about LEVEL 75 306 geared, fully augmented with MK-11 slots, Juggernauts UTTERLY DESTROYING EVERYONE. Don't tell me they are not OP. They are literally making all other classes look like a laughing stock.
KendraP Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) I provided actual comparisons of abilities between mara and jugg, linked a few discussions on sins, and all you can do is scream OP? Not even a screenshot of this supposed domination you're experiencing? Really, where's the proof. PS it wasn't you talking about sub 75, it was someone later, maybe read more responses than just mine. Edited December 11, 2019 by KendraP
JediMasterAlex Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) I'm NOT talking about Sub 75 PVP. I am talking about LEVEL 75 306 geared, fully augmented with MK-11 slots, Juggernauts UTTERLY DESTROYING EVERYONE. Don't tell me they are not OP. They are literally making all other classes look like a laughing stock. This person is either a troll or simply has no clue about anything related to pvp. This is the same person that claimed people in 252 gear did half the damage of those in 258 gear, among other nonsense. Juggs have always been decent in regs, because their dcds come off cooldown rather quickly. That hasn't changed. In ranked, they are in an even worse position than before, because pts have good new set bonuses and a new dcd that puts them ahead of juggs in most peoples' minds. To suggest that the literal, and almost universally recognized, worst dps class is OP is almost impressive. That said, we'll see what happens when good juggs get their hands on the ED tactical. Edited December 11, 2019 by JediMasterAlex
TrixxieTriss Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) Considering how way OP Juggernauts are right now, I am not sure why every single player in the game isn't playing one. Gee i dunno, getting 1/2 my health taken away in the first few seconds of a Jugg being on me, spending most of the time trying to run away and heal, only to work my tail off to see him at 10% then heal to full and one more stun/dead. It's ridiculously OP bullcrap. And you don’t think a Sin, operative or Mara can do the same? All are better at doing that than a Jugg at the moment. While I don’t play an operative (but definitely been on the receiving end), I do main a Mara, Jugg, Sin and Sorc every day (relearning my Merc and sniper). I can say the Sin and the Mara hit harder that the Jugg. Operatives have a great opener and are blood hard to stay on as a Jugg (it’s nearly impossible. So an Operative always has the advantage. The sin and operative are also the most survivable of all because of force cloak / combat stealth and heal to full. Even Maras feel a bit more tanky than they did in 5.x and can cloak out and with a utility, can now heal too. The Jugg is still good and has good survivability, but it is now less mobile than it was in 5.x because force leap has a slightly higher CD. So staying on target is even harder than before. Where as my Mara now has two for leaps now and Sins are by far the most mobile in the game besides operatives. Even snipers with their new phase walk are more mobile this meta and you can hardly get near them to start with (on a Jugg) My Sorc now hits harder than a wet rag and is a threat. If you leave a Sorc along in a pvp match they will ALWAYS top the dps. They also have the best self healing of any DPS class in the game, which makes their Survivability outstanding. Without ED (which has also taken a nerf), my Jugg would get demolished faster than it already does and I’d never kill anything. I have to rely on Sins, Maras and other classes being dumb and staying in range and hitting me while ED is up. They could just as easily get out of my range and I can’t do squat to them. If you are on any of those classes and getting smash by juggs or complaining that ED is OP, I suggest you look at your own play style first. Especially if you are on a Sin. There is absolutely no reason a Jugg should beat you unless you are bad or don’t play to your classes strengths. Why do I still play a Jugg you also? Because it’s fun for me. I’m good at it and many people are just rubbish on those other classes, so as long as I don’t go into ranked with my Jugg, I’ve a pretty good chance in reg pvp. Unless you are in grouped ranked with the right team, DPS Juggs are useless in solo ranked, and only viable in regs because of the diminished skill lvl in pvp now. If anything, IMO, at this stage, DPS Juggs are where the balance should be and would be one of the more balanced classes in this meta. But we won’t really be able to tell until ranked is in full swing and people are fully BiS with the right gear/tactical’s/amps. I won’t comment on tank spec because I don’t play it. But all indicators point to them doing less damage than last meta. The only classes on my Jugg I feel really comfortable to take on (skill being equal) are PTs and Mercs. They are the other two classes that feel balanced to me. PTs (which I don’t play) have always hit hard, but now they have more survivability. Mercs are no longer ranged tanks (even if some still play them that way). To sum up, Jugg are in no way, shape or form anywhere near OP in this meta. If they are doing good numbers, it’s because they are better players than you. Oh and watching Jugg's top TPS, Healing and Protection. Flatly put, tank classes are too OP to be in PVP. If this is the way Tank DPS is going to be, I am FINE with them being banned from PVP. In fact, are you not looking at all the spam posts about "What spec do I pick as a Jugg in PVP?" There's a lot of them. Its OP. Probably your class (which is over-represented in PVP) so yeah, you don't want it nerfed but anyone else who gets their tails kicked every single match against a Jugg disagree. ITS OP AND NOT BALANCED! Please point out where ALL the spam posts are? Have you ever considered people are getting back in the game and a Jugg was their main (warrior classes have always been the most popular) and Juggs have always had a lower skill lvl to learn the basics. But I’ve not seen any spam threads. The only thing I’ve seen is a few posts asking for some help from returning players. As for tanky, yes they are, but they’ve always been and that’s how they are designed, so I’m not sure what your complaint is. It’s totally nonsensical to complain they can take damage and deal it out while doing so. But as I pointed out, they are the least mobile melee dps spec in the game. So if they weren’t a bit tanky, they would be totally useless. The only thing we agree on is the protection stats they do. I also feel they shouldn’t be as high. But have you also considered how much damage they actually take because of guard (not including taunts)??. Without a healer next to them while they do that, they crumble really fast. Taunts on the other hand should be removed from DPS Juggs, Sins and PTs (but that’s an opinion I’ve held for many, many years). I know others don’t share that point of view, but that’s an entirely different subject to Juggs being OP. Can I ask, what class are you playing that makes you think Juggs are OP? Maybe some of our more experienced pvpers can help you with strategies to mitigate that. Edit: never mind. I found your post about Sins, so I assume you are playing that class. Everyone is pretty much in the same gear but I am seeing Sith side "Shadows" doing 2x the damage I am, same gear, in PVP. Wondering if my talents are screwed up besides just being sucky? If you need help with that, it seems obvious from your posts, that you also need help with your DCD’s. Might I suggest you ask what YOU are doing wrong before calling other classes OP Edited December 11, 2019 by TrixxieTriss
Vertol Posted December 12, 2019 Posted December 12, 2019 Considering how way OP Juggernauts are right now, I am not sure why every single player in the game isn't playing one. If you are playing a shadow and you have issues with juggs it just devaluate everything you wrote here. Srsly try to play juggs in solo ranked, most of the time you'll spend your time just kiting/LOSing everyone.
Jarbarian Posted December 16, 2019 Posted December 16, 2019 If you are playing a shadow and you have issues with juggs it just devaluate everything you wrote here. Srsly try to play juggs in solo ranked, most of the time you'll spend your time just kiting/LOSing everyone. I've played against Juggs in every BG with Shadow, Scoundrel, Sniper, etc. I caught a Jugg at 5% health and watched him go to 100%. He was unkillable. They are topping DPS and HEALS in BGs. The only people defending Juggs are those that play them and do not want them nerfed. That's why people are so defensive. I'd be OK with people actually telling the truth but all I see here and in BGs are polar opposites. So you guys are full of crap. Even people in the BGs are complaining about Juggs.
JediMasterAlex Posted December 16, 2019 Posted December 16, 2019 I've played against Juggs in every BG with Shadow, Scoundrel, Sniper, etc. I caught a Jugg at 5% health and watched him go to 100%. He was unkillable. They are topping DPS and HEALS in BGs. The only people defending Juggs are those that play them and do not want them nerfed. That's why people are so defensive. I'd be OK with people actually telling the truth but all I see here and in BGs are polar opposites. So you guys are full of crap. Even people in the BGs are complaining about Juggs. I don't play jugg. Nice try I guess.
Csjbo Posted December 16, 2019 Posted December 16, 2019 I've always considered DPS Juggs in PVP to be a noob-killer class in Unranked PVP because of how their DCDs punish other players for attacking them (reflect deals damage against mostly, ED gives jugg health) and the util Pooled Hatred punishes other players for rooting them. Add to that, the fact that their DCDs have a relatively low CD compared to other classes makes them a nightmare to deal with if you're inexperienced (or they're in a premade....which would make any class awful to go against). HOWEVER.....against a more coordinated, more seasoned team, they're not as frightening, as the attackers avoid hitting into reflect, burst through the ED and then save their hardstuns for saber ward. Not even sure the ED tactical would save them. No nerfs necessary. Jugg tanks.....on the other hand are a different story, especially when they get the ED tactical....
JediMasterAlex Posted December 16, 2019 Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) Jugg tanks.....on the other hand are a different story, especially when they get the ED tactical.... Yeah, tank tunneling juggs will be a thing of the past . At least I'm not madness anymore. Edited December 16, 2019 by JediMasterAlex
Vertol Posted December 17, 2019 Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) I've played against Juggs in every BG with Shadow, Scoundrel, Sniper, etc. I caught a Jugg at 5% health and watched him go to 100%. He was unkillable. They are topping DPS and HEALS in BGs. Maybe you should stay invisible until his enraged defense wears off? It seems like if something doesn't die in maul spam, it's clearly OP to you. And most of their dps are dots and aoe. And numbers aren't even that importatnt in BGs, if ppl are farming numbers in hypergate or huttball they are going to loose. Edited December 17, 2019 by Vertol
Sindol Posted December 17, 2019 Posted December 17, 2019 Go with the class you like more aesthetically. The Juggernaut is the true spec of the character in the SW story if that is any factor. The Mara outperforms the Jugg in terms of DPS output in PvP. Jugg has more utility as you can choose a tank spec if you get tired of being DPS all the time. Jugg has more control and can really pester the crap out of ranged classes and healers. Really just depends on your play style. A dedicated player can get a lot out of both advanced classes. It really is up to you and how much you make the class work. Hope this helps. Don’t mind the derps whining about meta in this thread.
Yezzan Posted December 17, 2019 Posted December 17, 2019 if you are playing an assassin, you should be able to global a jug. Kite or stealth out during ED and just use weapon attacks during reflect or low slash him or just kite. Their leap is on a long CD anyways. Deception's opener can kill anyone in 4 moves. Plus you pop deflection so they can't stun you. Anyways. I would advise the OP to pic a Jugg, you can't go wrong.
Jarbarian Posted December 17, 2019 Posted December 17, 2019 Jugg tanks.....on the other hand are a different story, especially when they get the ED tactical.... All tanks, TBH. They are topping BGs across every BG.
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