OP What the hell have you been smoking? are we even playing the same game. 6.0 has the best balance for PVP in years. Not perfect, but much better diversity. in 5.X it was ALL Merc and Mara, Now its Sniper, Merc, Mara, Sorc, Sin, Oper top tier Pyro PT and Tank PT overpowered? Go look at the ranked leaderboards they are by far the lowest scoring class. And if you ever played ranked you would know how badly they actually perform in that environment. This, in a nutshell.

Both are pretty good, Jug you have the option to go tank obviously which brings another element to your gameplay on the one character. its really up to your preference i dont see one outperforming the other at this stage, mara has stealth to run off and heal, Jugg has better up front survivability. Fury for marauder, vengence for Jugg have fun!

I for one am happy disney acquired star wars, at least they are doing something with it instead of it dying off and being a genre for the old guard. I can share it with my kids, thank you disney!

Not as annoying as being squishy as fk, have dots that tickle an enemy while they purge your slow with multiple abilities/ utilities and rip your face off with 100k+ damage in 2.8 seconds. Madness is just not competitive and when compared to lightning is no contest. Lightning got beefed cause of it being used as an example about not being able to do NiM or not being viable in PvE, Sadly Madness has been left in the dark as a result. I agree with some points already made, increase the self healing built into the spec, re-work force leach, give a utility choice for force lightning to be used on the go. However i do think other classes deserve more attention then Sorc right now.

In regards to PVP it can be frustrating, PT/VG has the weakest and least amount of DCD this is well known and undisputed unless you are insecure in your own ability on your class. Some refuse to admit other classes short comings so they dont get put on par with their own. It is quite sad but it is what it is. In saying that you should be proud if you are managing to make it work against all other classes as it requires actual skill and dedication and when the time ineviatably comes that PT/VG gets some love you will be in a good place as you managed when they where weakst of the bunch so god help those in front of you when they are FOTM. One thing we do have is we can dish out some punishment to those that choose to tunnel us cause we are an easy target, Stack your firefall and procs run up to them like a suicide bomber and unleash some hell. I also remember a Hutt Ball where i enjoyed setting one such person up for at least 5 grapples into fire. This is the way.

Exactly my point, you just go meh.. its another Merc/ Mando.

You will need to fill with rapid shots, its unavoidable or you will eventually burn out without meteor brawler i use thermal sensor override on deadly onslaught as it ticks for just under 3 seconds and generates 30 heat usually, this will enable heat to drop quite a bit as its free over the channel with heat dropping while it ticks meteor brawler does help alot when you get to 6 pc, you just gotta not burn out for 2 mins really flame dissipation tactical is another way, switch it out as needed but i generally cant be bothered doing that

The difference between playing sniper and playing it well is actually much greater then playing merc and playing merc well is the point. Its the class that when played well, you just look at and go ''meh'' cause anyone can do it.

Do any of you even realise i posted this over a year ago, when merc was broken and actually an issue? Oh the topic has flared up because merc is no longer top dog? haha suck it up princess. I bet most of you goons are now the ones rolling lightning sorcs, because sniper would be to much of a challange to master compared to your previous years on a kindergarten merc. FOTM FOR LIFE!

This statement exactly! if PT is so OP now play it and dominate and show everybody. You will do one ranked match and go.. yeah that was not fun and give up! they are still squishy as all hell and go down faster then any other class, this ability rarely goes off to full capability as its easy to avoid and shut it down. its a joke we finally get something good after being stomped on for years and the call to nerf them comes out. We would trade this clunky offensive ability we didnt even need for half of every other classes DCD capabilities in a heartbeat, Then you may actually have something to cry about.

My personal opinion is Pyro for PvE and AP for PVP, i mostly play AP in PVP and the burst is amazing, it has little to no ramp up time now with powerlode tactical and prestacking energy burst before the fight. Pyro just takes that much longer to ramp up and for PVP thats not good for a class that has well known survivability issues as you die before you ramp it up In saying that superheated fuel tactical + explosive fuel > superheated flamethrower proc'd, searing wave, immolate into your stacked firefall is damn nice burst on pyro if you pull it off. i just fine AP to be more consistent and not relying on your team make-up to survive or stars align with firefall, with AP im at least taking someone down with me as i go down. In saying that both specs are fine for all content and have their place, perfect? not by a long shot, but by far the coolest class and style is everything. This is the way!

Damage output is very good for all content on both specs, currently above average so its in a strong position for DPS in its current state. This is the current parse leader board, take it with a grain of salt but its a good indicator of what is possible and what is performing at the top level. http://parsely.io/parser/leaderboard

Fair enough you did not actually say it, however that is what the post was about that you commented on, it was about their lack of survivability so its pretty easy to missread your motivations behind bringing up firefall and dps when the comments were never about actually about dps and doing so send the message that the problem is because they dont have this wondrous new ability that will make all there troubles go away. Pt has decent dps, middle of the pack if parsley is anything to go by, that was never in question. Anyways To be fair after following some of Gyro's advice and looking to refine my gear i am seeing an improvement in the dps output which is nice, and thank you for sharing that knowledge. The sticking point is you just get swarmed in pvp and go down extremely fast so you dont really get to unload the majority of the dps potential anyways so i am still in the same situation i was before, same amount of glass but more cannon In saying that if it wasn't currently PT, it would be another class which ever has the least amount of DCD or survivability in the present meta that will get focused, so at the end of the day its always going to be one class unfortunately through the last expansion and into this one it has been mine. In 6.0 i think at least there are quite a few top contenders so variety is good, it was dominated throughout the later stages of 5.0 by Merc, Mara and Skanks now its Sniper, Oper, Sin, Sorc, Merc, Mara I am hopefully optimistic that the expansion phases are long, and PT will make it onto the top tier list this expansion

i got the set that day and im telling you that ability does not hit that hard, i dont care if you show a screen of someone doing it on a dummy, thats not a real application of the ability in a real time environment and its laughable to be called ''fact'' https://ibb.co/fQ3rxKZ These are my current stats for PVP, full 306 with set bonus and 22.5% armor penetration from amplifiers , all thats missing is some aug tuning these stats are very close to being as good as you are going to get for PVP. This ability hits for around 70-80k on a high roll. Thats if the stars align in the heat of battle and your target has no DCD up, you have your damage buffs up, and you are not shut down which is actually what happens majority of the time because its that easy to avoid. This is a realistic description of this ability. My gripe is that you chime in on everyones legitimate concerns about this classes survivability as if people are not doing it right, or they are not geared properly and bring up this ability as if they did it correctly it would have helped them survive somehow instead of discussing the actual root of their concerns. Its frustrating to see someone who has obviously sunk as much time into a PT to obtain the set bonus pieces can sit there and basically tell people the class is fine they have no issues and all they need is their set bonus and all the problems will go away! its ludicrous. The ranked leaderboards (early as it is now) is a clear indicator of what classes outshine others, this divide will only get wider as the season progresses. There isnt really any tips to help anyone on PT, pop what DCD you have and try and do as much damage until you get inevitably exploded. Everyone will focus you first, cause they know you will go down fast, its that simple. There are some things like mutilating shards utility, which puts a 75% slow for 15 seconds off shatterslug, that may help with kiting but lets be realistic your range is 10m not 30, they will purge it and be back on you like a rash in an instant. Take all the utility buffs for hydrolic overides and use it tactically cause its all you really have for mobility I have become accustomed to hit and run tactics while hydrolic overide is off CD, run in do some damage run out and los, and pray to baby jesus that they dont chase you down.

You go on and on about this in every thread someone makes about there experience with survival and DCD issues on PT, the post is not about PT damage even if it was you are exaggerating the ease of executing that ability, the AOE is tiny, its shut down very easily (everyone scrams when its stacks are active or stuns you so its just wasted), the damage is no where near that high, it hits for 80k on the highest hit if you are lucky, in full 306 with augs. Even if you manage to click it off early and it goes off on 4-5 people who gives a **** cause you are dead 2 seconds later and they are not THROUGH LACK OF DCD Better idea yet, how about we trade firefall cause its so OP apparently for all of the Merc's DCD, i would trade that niche ability for the ability to actually survive and play my class any day. Most Merc players play the class cause its the easiest to win with, they dont care or see the struggle cause they are the best swtor players and everyone else is just trash and needs to L2P, it could not possibly be the class!

PT was in a good place for quite a while, but it has received the least amount of attention for a very long time and this has created quite a gap between them and all other classes.

(6) Activating Explosive Fuel gives you Firefall for the duration of Explosive Fuel. During this time, dealing damage with Searing Wave, Flame Burst, Magnetic Blast, Rocket Punch, or Flaming Fist builds up to 7 stacks of Firefall. When Explosive Fuel ends, it detonates dealing elemental damage to all enemies around that scales with Firefall stacks. After it explodes, your heat-using abilities cost 50% less heat for 20 seconds. its not that easy to build 7 stacks of firefall, deadly onslaught does not proc it, it actually never did btw even on release of 6.0 when it ran off energy shield Considering they changed it to Explosive fuel from energy shield if its still critting from superheated fuel tactical which also runs off explosive fuel it doesnt sound like that should intentionally be happening as the tactical would end before firefall goes off and if you are telling people to use an ability that doesnt even proc it i doubt you really know whats going on. HOWEVER i have seen stranger things happen and you may be correct, but i can guarantee if it is its unintentional and wont be left like that. I almost have the full meteor set to confirm myself as i was set back by buying right price first.

Actually throughout that time PT was in a good place, it was not OP or FOTM it was balanced well and had the same DCD as they do now with the exception of power yield (thats how long its been since getting anything new defensive wise), its just some classes such as Merc had less so they where the priority target. I do remember Merc's back then and i felt for them all it was a horrible time. That is why PT were quiet they were happy and if played well, they did well. The point i was trying to make which i did not make clearly In bringing up Merc they have been given so much to help them out which was needed i agree, but none of it was shared with the base class like other classes do, Mad Dash, Overload being good examples from other classes or the utilities that share among base class either, the kolto overload buff energy shield trauma stack utility to name a couple. This is where i make recommendations for improvement to my class without reinventing the wheel as the abilities already exist in rocket out and jetboost or the self healing boost utilities mentioned above. literally now in 6.0 with power yield PT have finally been given an additional DCD, but after so many years that alone falls far short of closing the defensive gaps other classes have been given. Again their offensive is good, not great. you can go on all day about firefall critting off explosive fuel (which if possible wont stay like that forever), but against the new look 6.0 Sniper, Sorc, Sin, and Oper. 6.0 PT damage is below the halfway bar, and still has the worst/ least DCD of any class to boot.

Nah, PT have 2 less DCD then most classes. I was going to take time out of my day to write up a post with every single class DCD outlined for comparison which would would really highlight the gap but for those that actually play this game this is already a well known fact and would more be to enlighten people such as yourself. There is a reason PT gets focused first in ranked and it isn't because of there outstanding damage capacity its cause they go down fast Also the damage is on the lower end of the scale now if early data from parsely is anything to go by and from what i can see in PVP matches they are being well out DPS by several other classes which have better DCD so a damage nerf does not sound like a well informed opinion. The only shining light is we have a cool and somewhat decent set bonus and decent/useful ability addition of Power Yield in 6.0, where other classes did not get as useful abilities which really goes to show even Bioware thinks this class needed more where others did not, The truth is it still needs more love because the Gap is just that far apart.

Mara is fine middle of the pack now, come play PT with me and actually have something to QQ about.

Your suggestion is a DCD, and its exactly what the class needs, a lot more of them actually. We have the weakest DCD of any class. I have suggested previously giving them rocket out and jet boost, with a utility that enables jet boost to root anyone hit by it. they have okay damage reduction DCD already, whats needed is DCD that knock people around to get them off you or get themselves out of sticky situations quickly. I think they could also deserve a reflect as every other class seems to get one but not one as powerfull as your example, perhaps running off thermal sensor override for 3 seconds. I dont understand why an off healing class such as Merc has been given all the DCD, look at Jugg and Sin off tanks they have way better DCD then PT does.

With 6.0 PT / VG is again the squishy class by not having competitive defensive cooldowns. Power yeild was a great addition but that was needed last expansion and as every other class pulls further ahead with the expansions additions more is needed to close the gap. PT / VG could use at least 2 more abilities that help them survive or utility changes to run off current abilitys, something like a knockback with root similar to snipers cover pulse, kolto overload utility buff like merc's have to make it tick faster and trigger earlier to actually keep you up. Both warrior classes get the same DCD abilitys like mad dash, thretening scream, i dont see why mercenarys rocket out and jet boost could not have been replicated between both bounty hunter classes. Really giving PT/VG those abilities would go a long way to closing the gap and would be an easy thing to implement. Jet boost with a root option with lower CD as a utility, Rocket out as a standard ability, Utility to further improve kolto overload like merc have. Even another purge movement imparing ability as it only really has hydrolic overrides and many classes have several ways to purge movement speed imparements.

With 6.0 PT / VG is again the squishy class by not having competitive defensive cooldowns. Power yeild was a great addition but that was needed last expansion and as every other class pulls further ahead with the expansions additions more is needed to close the gap. PT / VG could use at least 2 more abilities that help them survive or utility changes to run off current abilitys, something like a knockback with root similar to snipers cover pulse, kolto overload utility buff like merc's have to make it tick faster and trigger earlier to actually keep you up. Both warrior classes get the same DCD abilitys like mad dash, thretening scream, i dont see why mercenarys rocket out and jet boost could not have been replicated between both bounty hunter classes. Really giving PT/VG those abilities would go a long way to closing the gap and would be an easy thing to implement. Jet boost with a root option with lower CD as a utility, Rocket out as a standard ability, Utility to further improve kolto overload like merc have. Even another purge movement imparing ability as it only really has hydrolic overrides and many classes have several ways to purge movement speed imparements.

agree with all your points and i have also noticed the clipping ability of hyper stacks, i was still disappointed with the dps output of carnage even with tacticals, its still just not anywhere close to fury. Any positive changes to carnage is a step in the right direction imo

No sorcs are not fine. If you think that then you 1. dont play sorc. 2. Main one of the broken classes and want to keep the others down. Good game bro good game! (happy to log on my Merc, Mara, Sniper and you can log on a sorc and duel them my friend and tell me sorcs are just fine) Why not make them able to tank sin decep? they made mercs be able to which is an off heal class just like sorc, so by that logic we are in our right to demand this outcome.