PTS Phase 3 - Flashpoint Balance

[OlBuzzard]

Wow, that sounds rational, reasonable and logical. If only we could get Bioware to see it that way. We’ve only been saying it for 2-3 years?

 

FYI, sarcasm not directed at you.

 

IMO.. there are other factors to consider. Those "other opinions" … and then of course most importantly the overall game design. I'd say out side of a few "tweaks" here and there we now have the end results.

EDIT: in short … what you see is what you get !!

 

I had personally hoped to be a better more active part of the community since I now have a little more time on my hands ( retired … use to work an average of 55+ hours a week co-managing a store as well as inventory management and purchasing. ) However... It's obvious that my work here is of little to no importance. Therefore … it looks like I'll just have to step up my search for a new office.

http://www.fishingworld.com/uploads/sites/37/website/Pages/2970/news/articles/10472/3987_large.jpg

http:///www.gamblerbassboats.com/sterling-competition-bass-boats

http://www.basscat.com/boats/page/5/jaguar

 

This game will take a back seat. IF I HAVE any time left over I'll log on for a bit. If not... who the HXXX cares !!

 

Something else will come along !

 

Life is too short and so many opportunities for me to invest my time / life into that do offer genuine rewards and a sense of satisfaction !

 

What I've seen lately … this game aint it !! Hopefully that will change. If not... then it's up to me to makes a choice !

 

NO !! I'm not leaving … and NO you can't have my stuff. If you want stuff... get out there and EARN IT !!!

 

Edited

Edited October 6, 2019 by OlBuzzard

[allexj]

Wow, that sounds rational, reasonable and logical. If only we could get Bioware to see it that way. We’ve only been saying it for 2-3 years?

 

FYI, sarcasm not directed at you.

 

Thank you Sir or Mam

[Eloi_BG]

Just did MM Manaan, couldn't get past 2nd boss. No idea how competent the others were but as a healer that clears nim content it was weird to not be able to heal enough in a MM FP. My numbers are lower than what I do on live with 248/252 gear (I have 269 average on PTS, no set bonus no tactical).

[cibacrome]

Agreed re. story = solo; vet = group (or exp well geared player solo potential for 'earlier' FPs like Hammer St, Athiss, etc...), mm = group challenge.

 

Right now it's not too far off for Vet mode, but the mob balance is still off. Mobs are more of a wipe threat than bosses, it should DEFINITELY be the other way around. Mobs need to be tuned down by 10% it feels like. I would focus on mob dps rather than health though, kill speeds seem fine, just the potential for a wipe is still very high when there are 4 or more mobs at a time, if there's no healer in the group.

 

Also, I get that FPs are for group content, but why are solo's not able to use kolto stations in Vet FPs? Its seems like a pointless restriction.

[phalczen]

Setup:

I probably ended up doing three warzones (one NS huttball and two Makeb arenas), one MM hammer, and the rest were VM hammer. Three or four of the VM hammer were me and a powertech and our comps. For the huttball I was on my sage Seer and the rest my medicine operative. I was using my 270 gear and leveling it up as intended (I suppose) though I did acquire the set bonus shells and tacticals. I had the medicine tactical that reduces the Kolto Infusion cast time with uses of surgical probe. My comp was influence rank 50. I was using the old grade 10 versatile stim. Naturally I had completed the [WEEKLY] for five vet modes in that time. I did notice that of my warzones, only the one arena match I won earned me an equipment crate at the end of the match. None of my gear was augmented except for my MH and OH because I had acquired enough mods to fill them out, they were the nerfed ex-240 augments.

 

Vendors:

Kai Zykken had things to sell me both pubside around Friday 2 pm eastern and midnight eastern impside. I did not compare his prices with the static vendors because he had nothing for a Seer sage or medicine operative.

Nitoo and Takanna are, ER, problematic. There’s just too many variants of mods and enhancements. More on that another time I guess.

 

Acquisition:

After starting out with an item rating of 270 I ended up with an average of 275, so not terrible. A smattering of 276 mods including two blue prototype 276 barrels for my MH and OH. I kinda feel like three and a half hours of nonstop grinding should have been more productive than that. I’m not sure how many tech fragments I would have earned because I was at the 5k cap, and deconstruction is broken, so I didn’t spend the fragments to get under the cap to test. I was using my renown boost and earned 9 renown crates in that time. I did not open any as I am following the very good advice to wait until I am iLvl 306.

 

Balance:

I felt like the mobs in hammer station are still manageable even in master mode. They are a little harder than previous iterations of PTS but not terribly so. I’ll try to test a larger variety of flashpoints later this weekend.

Snave was on the opposite team for my huttball match and they were clearly playing objectively whereas my side wasn’t until the score was 4-0 and people started to realize what was going on. Arenas felt about the same as on LIVE which is of course biased since I love huttball and hate arenas. As a healer who depends on alacrity, I really miss my 1.3s GCD and 15-16% alacrity that I have on LIVE. When the breakpoints were first reported with PTS phase 1.5 I remember posting in the thread that I didn’t think I would notice but I do. Not that the other teams were terribly good at interrupting my casts but there were definitely some deaths I could have delayed or prevented if I had just gotten that cast off sooner.

In the three or four VM hammer stations that I ran with the powertech and our comps, the PT was using the set that heals you when an enemy dies and increases your movement speed. That set seems like a really fun set for grinding heroics. Too bad the alliance supply crates are missing and the datacron decorations have been missing from the champions since 4.0.

Edited October 5, 2019 by phalczen

[robwettengel]

I just completed Umbara on Solo mode. My gear level average is 278 and my comp (Theron heh) is at 50. If the comp was not at max affection, I am certain that I would have died several times facing Canni, his turrets and Eli Vaa (didn't use any stims or medpacks--suspect those may be needed in the future if there are no further tweaks). The other bosses were a cakewalk.

[TrixxieTriss]

Just did MM Manaan, couldn't get past 2nd boss. No idea how competent the others were but as a healer that clears nim content it was weird to not be able to heal enough in a MM FP. My numbers are lower than what I do on live with 248/252 gear (I have 269 average on PTS, no set bonus no tactical).

 

 

Yes, there seems something wrong with the numbers if you are lvl 75.

 

If you did it at lvl 75. Any chance you could transfer the same character over and try again while lvl 70 in your 248/252 gear to compare for us?

[TrixxieTriss]

Agreed re. story = solo; vet = group (or exp well geared player solo potential for 'earlier' FPs like Hammer St, Athiss, etc...), mm = group challenge.

 

Right now it's not too far off for Vet mode, but the mob balance is still off. Mobs are more of a wipe threat than bosses, it should DEFINITELY be the other way around. Mobs need to be tuned down by 10% it feels like. I would focus on mob dps rather than health though, kill speeds seem fine, just the potential for a wipe is still very high when there are 4 or more mobs at a time, if there's no healer in the group.

 

Also, I get that FPs are for group content, but why are solo's not able to use kolto stations in Vet FPs? Its seems like a pointless restriction.

 

Yep, it’s definitely the trash mobs with the higher threat vs bosses for a wipe, even in a group.

It’s not just in vet flash points, it’s across a lot of solo / story mode content too.

 

I found the bosses in Hammer Station to be balanced correctly. Harder to kill and little more dps, but still killable as a 2 man group and probably solo if you are geared and a higher caliber player. But the trash mobs, nope, put a bunch together and they pump out a truck load more dps than a boss fight. IMO, that’s not balanced

I don’t really mind if they are a bit harder to kill, it was a bit silly when they would melt instantly. But Bioware need to decide wether they want the trash to hit hard or be harder to kill. Having both as high as they are makes them OP.

 

It also seems silly to restrict Kolto stations in vet flash points if you’re solo. I’ve never noticed before because I usually don’t need them. Has it always been like that or just on the pts?

[MrEndymion]

Did several Veteran Flashpoints today, and here's what I have gathered.

When doing Crisis on Umbara, the turrets summoned by the first boss have an obscene amount of health, are damage sponges, and also deal a filthy amount of damage. If people who do NiM Content are scratching their heads wondering why entry-level content is this strangely difficult, I believe that it is an issue. Trash mobs simply do too much damage, and they're honestly the biggest reasons why people just might not have fun with the flashpoints if left like this. If people want a challenge when doing a flashpoint, shouldn't it be Master Mode that is balanced like this?

Lastly, I don't know if this is the place to gripe about this, but wouldn't it be neat if you re-added the epic enemies codex entries back into game for VM flashpoint bosses

[LadyAdmiral]

Hammer Station and Red Reaper seemed fine balanced for our team with the basic gear from the terminal, even with a "weak" team.

 

Collicoid Wargames was BAD. We could not get past the turrets, we got quickly overwhelmed all 3 tries. We gave up on it.

 

Pics of collicoids killing us and a bug with the shuttle at the beginning: https://imgur.com/a/jDyGSc5

[robwettengel]

Did several Veteran Flashpoints today, and here's what I have gathered.

When doing Crisis on Umbara, the turrets summoned by the first boss have an obscene amount of health, are damage sponges, and also deal a filthy amount of damage. If people who do NiM Content are scratching their heads wondering why entry-level content is this strangely difficult, I believe that it is an issue. Trash mobs simply do too much damage, and they're honestly the biggest reasons why people just might not have fun with the flashpoints if left like this. If people want a challenge when doing a flashpoint, shouldn't it be Master Mode that is balanced like this?

Lastly, I don't know if this is the place to gripe about this, but wouldn't it be neat if you re-added the epic enemies codex entries back into game for VM flashpoint bosses

 

Took me a few minutes to kill those turrets after I had rather easily dispatched Canni and Vaa. Needlessly tedious.

[OlBuzzard]

Took me a few minutes to kill those turrets after I had rather easily dispatched Canni and Vaa. Needlessly tedious.

 

The best I could do was about 80% damage on the two before the turrets kicked in. And frankly they (those turrets) ripped me a new one !

 

OUCH !

Edited October 6, 2019 by OlBuzzard

[TrixxieTriss]

 

Collicoid Wargames was BAD. We could not get past the turrets, we got quickly overwhelmed all 3 tries. We gave up on it.

 

Pics of collicoids killing us and a bug with the shuttle at the beginning: https://imgur.com/a/jDyGSc5

 

Ouch !

[Sambril]

The best I could do was about 80% damage on the two before the turrets kicked in. And frankly they (those turrets) ripped me a new one !

 

OUCH !

 

Agreed. For comparison I replayed on live. Story mode. Granted my gear was relatively better - mostly 258 with weapon/offhand 252, vs the 268 on PTS, but those turrets are a nightmare on PTS.

 

They spawn unshielded and are easy to take down, but once the shield gets going they are extremely tough. When you are getting stunned and knocked around it is not always possible to get to them quickly and if you get a lot of them up they will melt you. On live, even shielded, they were fairly easy to kill. I think the tuning on story mode should be re-examined.

[Sandrosw]

Colicoids War Games we did duo (veng jugg, corruption sorc, companion dps Shae and dps Senya on high level influence) on vet mode yesterday. Mobs did not present much issues, though in one pull on first turret we almost wiped - friend had to go off the turret to kite mobs around while I shot them down. I suppose with 4 real people here manning the turrets it would be much easier - on second turret we had no issues at all. The rest of the FP the droids took some time to kill, and I had to use dcds and interrupts and such - but I kinda expect it when undermanning FP with low gear quality (280 not augmented). But we never wiped on them.

 

However neither the chest after turrets, chest after puzzle and the last boss drop anything. The chest turns from red to green, but after clicking it you get nothing, as it is now on live. I bugged it here : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=968968 - the FP is doable, mechanics worked, it did not stand out in difficulty, but due to missing drops it feels like bugged FP and it does not look professional, when it can be fixed so easily by adding the drops.

 

We also did Story Uprising: Firefrost - I ran it 7 times on live solo this week so I could compare it. On PTS it was much harder (the shot from walker almost oneshotted me, on story mode, while on live it takes maybe 20% hp?). I noticed the mobs were level 75 here and not 70. But again in duo with my friend and 2 companions we did not wipe here - though it was close and we had to use kolto stations, as my friend could not keep me healed up enough (we both run nim opses, so we kinda know our classes well, and it really felt like heals are drastically lower than on live and my jugg felt like glass cannon). We did not try harder modes, we could barely do story mode and it felt more like master mode on live.

 

Again, in the uprising nothing but credits dropped. And I mean nothing, no gear, no renown packs, no tech fragments, nothing. I bugged it here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=968969 and suggested to add drops based on difficulty of uprising (we could have 1 item dropping on story, 2 on vet and 3 on master from each boss - which would make the easiest one, Freactured, not the optimal choice as it does not have 3 bosses like harder ones).

Currently on PTS the uprisings are not worth running at all. I find it baffling, they are done already, they work, there are some interesting mechanics, but instead of adding rewards to them to make them attractive it feels like BW wants to close them down? I know that many (if not most) players never ran them or did just Fractured and maybe one or two more randomly. So when I run with them for their first time, they really like them, they feel fresh to them - unlike FPs that everyone of them ran dozens of times. But there are no incentives to do them - not a conquest objective (seriously, why did you not add one time objective to each conquest for 1-2 uprisings like it is done with FPs?), weekly on PTS does not give equipment crates like FP weeklies do and only give a very low amount of tech fragments (40-60-80 story-vet-master weekly). Most of the Uprisings on vet mode are actually harder than vet mode FPs, as the amount of adds is same or even greater (and with less possibilities to skip them) and bosses have more than one mechanic to do, which is on par with vet FPs like LI/BH/Kaon. I mean, it is not like we get new content very often, so I just don't understand why not capitalize on what is already done in game, when it is matter of "just" adjusting the rewards.

[OlBuzzard]

Agreed. For comparison I replayed on live. Story mode. Granted my gear was relatively better - mostly 258 with weapon/offhand 252, vs the 268 on PTS, but those turrets are a nightmare on PTS.

 

They spawn unshielded and are easy to take down, but once the shield gets going they are extremely tough. When you are getting stunned and knocked around it is not always possible to get to them quickly and if you get a lot of them up they will melt you. On live, even shielded, they were fairly easy to kill. I think the tuning on story mode should be re-examined.

 

Previously I had ran it with less than 252 and managed to scrape by. Granted it was in story mode. That was why I decided to try it in the same "story mode". There are a lot of solo players that seldom try "Veteran" mode. So … my thought was to compare apples with apples so to speak: my upgraded gear compared to the past notwithstanding. At any rate. If use enough interrupts and stand in a place that should be more difficult to be hit by the turrets … it's still overwhelming. I'd hate to see what Veteran or Master mode would do ! YIKES ! IMO... you'd have to have BiS gear and a companion with max influence points to survive.

[Nevaeh-Heaven]

So far good in group, bad in solo. I guess it depends if you want these flashpoints for all your solo players as well or just have it group play. Some players will of course be fine soloing them. However you need to average it out and not just be for elite solo players.

 

Note not played on master version just vet. Plus it was on my main account not this one.

[Sambril]

So far good in group, bad in solo. I guess it depends if you want these flashpoints for all your solo players as well or just have it group play. Some players will of course be fine soloing them. However you need to average it out and not just be for elite solo players.

 

Note not played on master version just vet. Plus it was on my main account not this one.

 

The problem is that some of them have issues in Story mode which are intended to be soloed. I think it is a glitch and the reason this feedback thread exists is for people to report stuff like this. Issues with level syncing should also be reported here, like when someone in 306 gear at 75 gets less stats when synced down to level 70 than a true level 70, then that is a problem.

 

People saying they can no longer solo Veteran mode is a different thing seeing as how that was always intended as group content. I am sure when the dust settles on 6.0 and people have a chance to work out gearing and strategies that we will see people challenging themselves and soloing group content and if they can then great.

[OlBuzzard]

The problem is that some of them have issues in Story mode which are intended to be soloed. I think it is a glitch and the reason this feedback thread exists is for people to report stuff like this. Issues with level syncing should also be reported here, like when someone in 306 gear at 75 gets less stats when synced down to level 70 than a true level 70, then that is a problem.

 

People saying they can no longer solo Veteran mode is a different thing seeing as how that was always intended as group content. I am sure when the dust settles on 6.0 and people have a chance to work out gearing and strategies that we will see people challenging themselves and soloing group content and if they can then great.

 

I beginning to believe that there may be something to this. There is some sort of "change" (sorry I really do wish I could be more specific … ) that comes across on most of these. IMO .. It simply translates into what I call a "damage rate". If you're taken down too fast.. (usually in a matter of seconds) there is little time to do too much of anything.

 

As for Veteran mode: IMO … that was more like the real "challenge" for solo players … and Master mode was intended for "group mode" at a difficulty level similar to "Veteran Mode" for solo players (which was meant to be a real challenge for groups).

 

IMO... this is something that should just simply be the standard through out the game:

 

** story mode: exactly that. There might be some mobs that still present a challenge … but it's just what the title describes. And is more for the casual player.

** Veteran mode: Again .. just as the title states. This could still be done "solo" player but is more challenging. Please note: that in KotFE / ET .. I finished a significant part of all of the stories in Veteran Mode ( in regular game play .. not on current PTS). I also realize that for most of you reading this it's no big deal. I also realize where I'm at (age wise) . And I see myself as an average player (at best). That said I already try to take into account all of this before I post my "findings / experiences".

** Master (or current name) Mode: Group level play only. This should be challenging enough to be suitable for exactly what the title reads. IDK... maybe the "model name" should read "Group ONLY" ?

 

At any rate.. IMO there is yet one other matter to factor into this. For some this will never do. Supposedly this means that SWTOR is catering to the solo players thereby wasting resources. NO ! Just simply NO !

 

One of the key aspects of the discussion often times turns to the "rewards" or what gear is being handed out as a result of completion of said instances / FP's or other aspects of the game. Perhaps what is needed is a special "something" that is received by those elite players who complete those levels of play. Not just a title. Maybe something a little more "tangible" ??? Maybe a specialized "flare" for their name ??? I do agree that the more difficult the level of play there should be something given to reward that level of play. By that same token I see no point in removing another aspect of the game in order to streamline the product. Remember what happened with the elimination of the 8 stories / streamlining down to one ? IMO … removing the difficulty levels (or streamlining them into less noticeable levels) essentially does the same thing.

 

At any rate. This is not a rant. More of a plea to improve on the above mentioned levels … That IMO should help and benefit everyone !

[dipstik]

please make all mm fp lvl 75

[OlBuzzard]

Last night before I went to bed I tried 2 or three of the FP's from Odessen … ( Crisis on Umbara for example) . Normally I could complete at least one or two … Not any more. I couldn't even get past the multiple turrets with Elli-Vaa and Technician Canni (just for example) ... I was in story .. solo mode. and yes I have completed this before in story mode !

 

 

Just an update

 

I have ran additional FP's today( other than the ones from Odessen.. see the list below) without any difficulties. I did run across one potential bug in Assault on Tython. I'll post that in the bug forum !

 

Korriban Incursion / Tython and even the one on Manaan all seemed pretty much doable. As an "average" player these seemed to be fine. The only thing I did question at times was whether or not "interrupts" worked correctly at time. But to be quite honest … in the heat of the moment I could have easily hit the wrong key ('m not a clicker). So .. yeah I'll give the benefit of the doubt to my error and not that of the game !

 

One other thing I did notice:

 

The FP's that I had the most trouble with and was not able to complete:

** Crisis on Umbara: hit the wall with the multiple élite Bosses. IMO if were just the two (Elli-Vaa and Technician Cann) that were Elite Bosses and the turrets something other than elite … maybe ? (just a thought)

** A traitor Among the Chiss : the end boss (never ran into that before … always managed to complete this one)

** The Nathema Conspiracy : Voreclaw was bad enough. Seemed like I could not get enough damage out of the attacks after the stuns in the green circles. The optional bosses: the hands of Zildrog.. just could not take them out. So I by passed them and moved on to the Guardian Driod. I just could NOT get past this one ! Operator error ?? Not sure why … just couldn't. Sorry .. I know that more detailed information is preferred as to WHY .. but I just don't have that information.

 

At any rate... IMO these seemed to be played on a different level than other FP's that we completed today !!

 

I hope this helps.

Edited October 7, 2019 by OlBuzzard

[phalczen]

please make all mm fp lvl 75

 

They're not going to do that because the whole point of the new system is that it makes it easier for them to scale the content moving forward.

[phalczen]

Just an update

 

What influence rank was your companion Buzz? What about your gear item rating? Advanced class?

Edited October 7, 2019 by phalczen

[juliushorst]

Mostly works fine with geared and max level players. Can't imagine going in, even Hammer Station, with people in their 20s or 30s.

[OlBuzzard]

What influence rank was your companion Buzz? What about your gear item rating? Advanced class?

 

Good questions

1. companions: frankly that varied. I wanted to test different ones to see if there were any issues. I had already ran into one instance where Lana did not move at all. I finally used another companion .. problem solved. I'd say that they ranged from 20 to 30 range. However, it should be noted that this is the same range of companions I have used in the past with a better success rate. ( sort of still comparing apples to apples )

 

2. Gear... not BiS. Frankly I don't have the exact gear total right now. But again … I've never obtained BiS on ALL slots. Usually I have a "mix" of sorts. Yes I do try to get out of the "greens" as fast as I can... and move up to proto type and artifact ASAP. But, there again... I've ran these FP's before Ossus with success (for the most part). More than likely I had a lot of 232 (ish) .. with some 248 wherever possible. I hope this makes sense !

 

3. Class: Prior to PTS... Level 70 … with reasonably good gear prior to Ossus (no greens at all). On PTS this time around .. yes level 75 with mix of green (starting level provided) and some earned (RNG provided) a lot of 272 … Nothing in BiS and no augments as of yet.

 

You know … I guess that is one of the things I've kind of been wondering in the back of my mind but have simply not properly verbalized or communicated the following point:

 

Will it be necessary to run with BiS in as many slots as possible in order to re-run old flash points that we have done with lesser gear ? I suppose another way to look at it is: Why would it be necessary to run FP's in story mode in order to beat those areas. Isn't the point to try to gain better gear and eventually run these FP's in a higher difficulty setting ? It would only stand to reason that gaining gear has to start somewhere. Not every player is the same. Not all of us want to sit on our backside and have things handed to us... BUT... If we have successfully completed these in the past … and now can't in the same mode IMO... perhaps there are some minor adjustments needed.

 

I'm just asking. Not going thermal on ya !

 

Good solid input is always appreciated !