DarkTergon Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Unsubbed and uninstalled game. I refuse to support a game that punishes it's players for making life a priority at times. You are behaving like a petulant child, demanding things that don't belong to you. The guild is never YOURS, it belongs to the community, the guild leader is supposed to run it for the members, do what's best for the members, help it grow, etc. If you wanted a guild, just for yourself, you could have set up a solo guild, bought an old empty guild from someone, etc. Real life effects EVERYONE in this game, i've been here since near the start, a constant subscriber, so hav many others. We've been through, life, death, marriage, ilness, kids, etc, etc. But most of us didn't abanodon our guilds, we ran them when we could, got others to step in, transferred them to more active people, basically anything we had to do to keep them going for the members. YOU didn't, you lost out, you didn't care about members languishing in a guild where people could do nothing. All you've done is complained and whined. YOU've been the most toxic person here. The fact you've unsubscribed and uninstalled says a lot about you. Hopefully this will give you time to sit down and contemplate life, and maybe help you grow a bit Leave, don't leave, just don't do a brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toraak Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) Wait... people arent allowed to take breaks in SWTOR? is that it? I'm a bad guild leader and my guild deserves to be taken away because real life came up and I took a break? You can still take a break, as long as you spend 5 mins every 27 days to log in once. It's not like you would have to stay in game, just log on, and log out. However other people are correct. Guild leaders are supposed to be active in the guilds, otherwise leadership should be passed on. Lead a raid group once a week, while taking the rest of the week off until your burn out is over is a viable option. At least this way people know your active. You can delegate duties to your other officers the rest of the week. Edited October 2, 2019 by Toraak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediQuaker Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Let me re-iterate some things. Yes, it is unfortunate that people are able to create and run a Guild without knowing the rules about GM transfer. - but - It's also true that, once you know about this, it is it is reasonably easy to work with it. If you are going to be away for more than 28 days: - You can temporarily appoint someone you trust to be GM while you're away. - You can log in within 28 days, even if it's just briefly. You don't need to necessarily log in on your main computer. You can log in from some other crap computer or even a (windows) tablet**, provided that SWTOR is installed and you either have a security key app or access to your e-mail. - If you get suddenly sick, you can get some family member to simply log in for you. They don't need to know anything about SWTOR. You just need to explain to them how to log in. They can log in (to the proper character) and then just quit the game. ** My MS Surface Go tablet can "run" SWTOR, but I certainly wouldn't want to actually "play" on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Let me re-iterate some things. Yes, it is unfortunate that people are able to create and run a Guild without knowing the rules about GM transfer. - but - It's also true that, once you know about this, it is it is reasonably easy to work with it. If you are going to be away for more than 28 days: - You can temporarily appoint someone you trust to be GM while you're away. - You can log in within 28 days, even if it's just briefly. You don't need to necessarily log in on your main computer. You can log in from some other crap computer or even a (windows) tablet**, provided that SWTOR is installed and you either have a security key app or access to your e-mail. - If you get suddenly sick, you can get some family member to simply log in for you. They don't need to know anything about SWTOR. You just need to explain to them how to log in. They can log in (to the proper character) and then just quit the game. ** My MS Surface Go tablet can "run" SWTOR, but I certainly wouldn't want to actually "play" on it. Right. That's why I can't say the guild system here is bad. It has pros and cons. I see both sides of the coin, here. I remember many times in the past on other games when our guild lost a leader unexpectedly due to family, stress, w/e it was which is irrelevant to my point. Point is, those guilds required a lot of effort and time on the guild member's behalf as well as the game guides to fix it so either the guild could continue with a new leader, or if that wasn't possible the entire guild had to drop and reform it. This sucks big time. Basically in the OP's circumstance, sure it sucks for him big time! But at least it sucks just for him, while in the other circumstance an entire guild suffers and is inconvenienced if they have a leader that just abruptly disappears. The worst part is if the entire guild has to reform just because a leader has to leave the game for months on end with no warning or passing of leadership there are people who are AFK, or are unavailable themselves during this change. Those people log back in someday, and find the guild is gone, and they are no longer in a guild! This isn't really fair to all the people who find themselves in this position and as a leader, your role is to not leave people in such situations. I hate to hear a guild was left to die, and that the original leader was unable to pick it back up, but hey if he left it with no warning, no preparation for others, well it's his fault that he does not have a guild to come back to after months of time has passed. I tried to inspire him to just recreate a new guild, I mean why not? Instead he found this as a reason to not play, which tells me that he was already half-cocked and waiting to pull the trigger on deciding not to play, again. Really tells me he probably shouldn't be running a guild, at least one with people in it. He'd be better off having his own solo guild where he can leave and come back whenever he wants, and then it wouldn't affect other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthCasus Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) You have my sympathies OP, it happens to the best of us. As usual, the common bootlicking going on in this thread fail to address what's a legitimate problem for the consumer and playing BioWare's zero-sum game. It doesn't have to be this way, the policy is garbage. Yes, we get it, someone should at least log in every 28 days to maintain lead but what about if they drop their sub? What of unexpected deaths irl? What of Preferred officers losing out to subscribed members or recruits with other intentions we could never tell of? I've inherited guilds during the recent years while the drought was happening, playerbase dwindling, once lively and active guilds from launch to the end of 3.x becoming ghost towns. A few maintained good officer teams that at the very least logged in to maintain order, a chill environment and handle everyday things that come with leadership. When the game becomes stagnant, are those people expected to keep paying their subs? How about those that don't realize it counted for specific characters and not accounts? I've lost lead years ago believing it was if I logged in with a character in guild, period but thankfully had good officers at hand. Subscribed officers, to be precise. They should extend it to 30 full days, get rid of the subscriber tier drop so long as they're active and put the disclaimer in clear terms on a pop up pane when creating a guild. Lord knows they use pop ups for the most inane crap already. You'd think there would be some flexibility in clear cases of incident or confusion when dealing with LARGE losses but nope. Also, a little empathy goes a long way, good karma and all that. Edited October 2, 2019 by DarthCasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phazonfreak Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) When the game becomes stagnant, are those people expected to keep paying their subs? When the guild leader decides that the game becomes stagnant and leaves without preparation, are the other guild members expected to just suck it up that their guild is non functioning? Guild leaders are not expected to continue subbing if they think the game becomes stagnant. On the flip side, they cannot expect to find the guild in the same state it used to be a couple of months ago if they did not prepare for it. A big disclaimer with bold lettering on guild creation would certainly help, but it won't annihilate the problem of careless guild leaders. They are careless enough to not even read disclaimers. You'd think there would be some flexibility in clear cases of incident or confusion when dealing with LARGE losses but nope. Also, a little empathy goes a long way, good karma and all that. I certainly would think not, since the game is basically run on a skeleton crew and they don't have the manpower and time to babysit every single guild membership and leader dispute. Edited October 2, 2019 by Phazonfreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorseGod Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 - If you get suddenly sick, you can get some family member to simply log in for you. They don't need to know anything about SWTOR. You just need to explain to them how to log in. They can log in (to the proper character) and then just quit the game. I'm pretty sure that sharing your account information with anyone is a TOS / EULA violation. It also exposes your account to risk, no matter how much you trust the other person, and customer service won't fix any unintended consequences of giving out your account info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkebatt Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I have only one thing to say kick out those who you would not trust to give the guild back on your return. Problem mitigated. If they liked you when you do return then they will come back when you came back. Sorry as with how the system is then you lose if you don't do what you need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I have only one thing to say kick out those who you would not trust to give the guild back on your return. Problem mitigated. If they liked you when you do return then they will come back when you came back. Sorry as with how the system is then you lose if you don't do what you need to do. I mean when no one is running the tag, they must have killed it. Also, seeing not one guildmate is known by the OP, it doesn't sound like the guild was particularly social with one another on any sort of level. He should just remake the guild with his pals I mean it would give him something to do instead of crying over spilled milk. Anyway, glad the OP made a thread for us to talk about! I personally hope he sticks around, I see he has a knack for creating threads of fun. Any added fun to the forums is welcome in my book! (I don't have a book, just a figure of speech, people!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grymmjow Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) You have my sympathies OP, it happens to the best of us. As usual, the common bootlicking going on in this thread fail to address what's a legitimate problem for the consumer and playing BioWare's zero-sum game. The only boot licking going on here is you to the OP. No one said it was a great system. His whining and snarky remarks when people were telling them what he could of done is what people where defending. This isn't a legitimate problem at all. He couldn't log in for a few months because they were to busy to take a max of 5 mins out of their day to log in. I don't believe not for 1 second someone couldn't do that unless they're lying on their death bed. They basically came here looking for sympathy and didn't get it so they kept throwing fits until they decided that they were going to quit because the toddler didn't get their way. Edited October 2, 2019 by Grymmjow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 They basically came here looking for sympathy and didn't get it so they kept throwing fits until they decided that they were going to quit because the toddler didn't get their way. sums it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkTergon Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) the policy is garbage.. No, it's not. It's garbage that people can't be bothered to take 5 mins in 28 days to keep a guild going, it's garbage for someone to lead a guild, but do nothing to help people who play, and instead piss off for months then try to get it back with lame excuses. The policy in this game is fair, not perfect, but fair. but what about if they drop their sub? Then they should have the decency to stand aside and let someone who's subbed and willing to put in the work take over. It's not fair to the guild if the guild leader keeps charge, and every other sub in the guild has to be in a guild that is 'F2P' guild. What of unexpected deaths irl? Unfortunately these things happen in life, everyone in this game has to deal with it, considering how long the game is running, there is probably very few people who haven't suffered a loss. But 28 days is still enough to log in for a moment, leave a note saying you've suffered a loss, and then when you are ready to resume, you take it up again. a little empathy goes a long way, good karma and all that.. The op was shown plenty of empthy from many people, but returned none. Nor did he show empty or understanding to the people left in his guild. I've inherited guilds multiple times, some I kept running, some i returned, some I just disbanded. One particular guild the GM came back after 3 months looking for it back, so i returned it, he dissapeared again, I got it again, he came back looking for it again, so should i have given it back to him, when he showed he already didn't give a crap about the guild or the people? Not to mention, it originally had 300+ people, while under his leadership it collasped, and after the second time i rebuilt it again. Needles to say he went crying to cs too, whinged on the forums, bad mouth the guild, and me in game, etc, etc. It doesn't take 5 mins to read the rules of being a gm, doesn't take a genius to figure out you have to be at least somewhat active to keep leadership. And if you can't be bothered to do that or figure this stuff out, then why should you run a guild? Edited October 2, 2019 by DarkTergon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardrossan Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) I've been on both sides, as a GM of a small, largely inactive guild, was inactive and had unsubbed, so it went to the next active sub. It took weeks for him to respond to my mail, but he did graciously give me back leadership, after which I kicked him out of the guild. I'm not proud of it [mind you, from a certain pov, only the weak surrender power], but I didn't want to take the risk of that happening twice. I've also been in the position of 'inheriting' dead guilds by being the last active member. In one case, I sold the guild for a tidy bit of credits, in the other, I used a guild rename because the name was contrived and boring [much like the OP's <Darth Nox> with accent]. On the whole, I don't mind the system. I do mind the way it makes a distinction between F2Ps and Sub guilds though. Over the years, I've learned to tolerate quite a lot of BW's nickle-and-diming practices when it comes to screwing over F2Ps, but that one is particularly senseless. Uninstalling the game because you got a few mean comments in a genforum thread seems like a bit of an overreaction. But on the other hand, it was a very entertaining ragequit thread, so thanks for that, OP. Edited October 3, 2019 by Ardrossan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darev Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I have always been concerned about this. My guild was a strictly private guild for over 7 years. Only recently did I start inviting people in. Maybe 30-40 people have joined in the last 6 months, maybe 5 of them have logged in during the last few weeks. I invited them specifically to help me level my guild in this "new" guild leveling system. It's up to level 28 now. Not too bad considering the small size of the guild. However, no one in the guild is getting promoted to officer because it is "MY" guild. I've spent over a billion credits unlocking rooms to get all of the perk slots open and now with 6.0 looming I'm starting to wonder if it's going to be worth playing considering I don't like the direction it's going based on PTS. So, if I do actually unsub and stop playing, all those people who jointed are getting kicked. I'll send an e-mail explaining why. If someone wants to make a guild and doesn't have the 8 million credits I'll float it to them (1 person only - not mulitples) But my guild is staying in my name, unless one of the original founding members who are real life friends wants it...but I don't see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) Maybe they can offer a cartel market token for 5,500 cartel coins you can get a "lifelock" on your guild that ownership won't transfer.... ...but a message shows up on the screen each time someone joins: Hello. You are joining a potentially (and more than likely) inevitably dead-end guild that will die a nasty, painful, neglected death when the guild leader, who has placed a no-transfer on this guild, abandons it and, subsequently, you. All your hard effort that you plan to invest in this guild will be for naught, as no one capable or responsible will ever be allowed to take over as leader. Enjoy! Edited October 3, 2019 by xordevoreaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkTergon Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I have always been concerned about this. My guild was a strictly private guild for over 7 years. Only recently did I start inviting people in. Maybe 30-40 people have joined in the last 6 months, maybe 5 of them have logged in during the last few weeks. I invited them specifically to help me level my guild in this "new" guild leveling system. It's up to level 28 now. Not too bad considering the small size of the guild. However, no one in the guild is getting promoted to officer because it is "MY" guild. I've spent over a billion credits unlocking rooms to get all of the perk slots open and now with 6.0 looming I'm starting to wonder if it's going to be worth playing considering I don't like the direction it's going based on PTS. So, if I do actually unsub and stop playing, all those people who jointed are getting kicked. I'll send an e-mail explaining why. If someone wants to make a guild and doesn't have the 8 million credits I'll float it to them (1 person only - not mulitples) But my guild is staying in my name, unless one of the original founding members who are real life friends wants it...but I don't see that happening. The problem with this is, once you open your guild to the public, it's no longer your guild, other people have a stake in it, you are using them to get the upgrades, etc. Now, if you invite them in stating that, and they join, that is different. But if you are opening it as a guild, then it's no longer 'yours'. I understand you put a lot of effort in to it, and credits, But you are opening it up, so now others are helping you expand, etc. But at least you are willing to float the money to get another guild started up, with a GS, if you do decide to unsub, but hold on to the guild. You are being a decent person and looking after the people who joined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Maybe they can offer a cartel market token for 5,500 cartel coins you can get a "lifelock" on your guild that ownership won't transfer... Good idea I suggest you suggest this in the comments/suggestions section! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelindis Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) I feel bad for the OP. I don't have a problem with the guild leadership policy, but I do think it shouldn't be possible to found a guild (or come into leadership of it via transfer) without being explicitly told the criteria for automatic leadership transfer. Yes, this information is easily available if you search, but if someone doesn't know there's something to search for - has no idea there's an automatic transfer system at all - then they're not going to search. Perhaps an in-game mail from Bioware could help, sent out automatically to any character that becomes leader of a guild. Edited October 3, 2019 by Estelindis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaywinnit Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) I have never seen a guild system like this in any game, and really dont understand why its a thing. If a guild becomes inactive, and members leave to join an active guild - that should be the only consequence;you lose your members. Just giving the guild to whoever logs in, when guilds take so much investment is just dumb. WoW has the exact same "absent GM" system.. they just have a longer window of inactivity required to initiate transfer (90 Days)... If you want a say in what happens to your guild after you found it...... don't abandon it for extended periods of time. Edited October 3, 2019 by Kaywinnit cleaned up quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 A guild is about the people in it, not a single "leader". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) A guild is about the people in it, not a single "leader". True. I tell my guildies that good people make a good guild great. That's my motto. Leaders do have much to contribute to make that happen. Leaders in guilds, just like leaders in corporations, set the tone for their organization, put their stamp on it as to what's acceptable and what isn't, and engender a group culture amenable to how they want to run things, and that culture is important. A guild's culture, which is essentially an understood set of expectations shared by the people who've been in the guild a long time, is self-reinforcing. With a strong culture, a guild leader doesn't have to be on 24/7 for members to learn from other members (and media) what's acceptable or to be censured for overstepping those expectations. Also, specific to this game, there are certain guild maintenance functions held exclusively by guild leaders which cannot be delegated to other ranks. Even with every box checked for guild permissions, no rank other than leader can do the following: ban / unban people create / name / reorder ranks set rank privs buy guild banks buy & name guild vaults configure guild bank privs buy / deactivate strongholds and flagships Point being, long-term sustainability of a guild and its overall utility to its members requires an engaged guild leader. Edited October 3, 2019 by xordevoreaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerraShar Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Personally, I'm just surprised...Guilds are still a thing in this game lol Mine went Kaput when that damn Decoration crap showed up , been a ghost town since then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) Point being, long-term sustainability of a guild and its overall utility to its members requires an engaged guild leader. Or at the very least one that understands if they have to take off unexpectedly and are unable to log in within a month's time, that the guild is in someone else's hands who probably will do a better job of being responsible and leading it. You can't abandon people or responsibilities and expect everything to keep on going till you get back, then suddenly at your convenience become the leader and start caring again. OP quit though, so I guess all this wisdom is going to waste in this thread. Personally, I'm just surprised...Guilds are still a thing in this game lol Mine went Kaput when that damn Decoration crap showed up , been a ghost town since then I don't even see a point to guilds on SWTOR. I guess I am used to how old MMOs worked, guilding back then was so much more fulfilling people seemed to have roles and contributions to add, real personal contributions to the guild as well as people were just different socially back then. You actually made friends on old MMOs, now things are so insta-group this, and insta-group that you don't need to get to know people. We can thank WOW for adding these types of features, but overall it's not WOW's fault WOW just did what worked for people socially. As tech got more powerful and communication got easier/gaming got easier it seems we as people have regressed when it comes to how we socialize especially online to one another. Anyway, I really get very little fulfillement from guilding on SWTOR. Especially now that there are zero PVP guilds, and I never enjoyed conquest much as an actual activity to log in for, see it more as a supplementary activity so all the guild perks from conquest just seem like icing on a dirt pie to me. Oh well. Edited October 3, 2019 by Lhancelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) Personally, I'm just surprised...Guilds are still a thing in this game lol Mine went Kaput when that damn Decoration crap showed up , been a ghost town since then I count myself fortunate that the people I've empowered in our guild take enough heart in being part of something that they feel is worth selflessly giving their time and attention to. I'm very proud and humbled at the same time. They're caring, respectful, and dedicated. I couldn't ask for a better crew, even the ones bent on murdering me during ops (here's looking at you, Denise! LOL) Edited October 3, 2019 by xordevoreaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 OP quit though, so I guess all this wisdom is going to waste in this thread. Here's hoping there'll be more than the OP that ever reads this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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