It’s time to make HK-55 and Chapter 10 available for subs??

[QuinlanSaathis]

That's not the definition here I'll help you.

 

 

Again sounds like people who say the chapter shouldn't be re-issued because they deserve special treatment for being subbed for the duration to get the chapter so no one else should get it. Sounds entitled to me.

 

Again sounds like people who say the chapter should be re-issued because they deserve special treatment for not being subbed for the duration to get the chapter so now they think they should get it.. Sounds entitled to me.

[OlBuzzard]

Let me clear something up for a few people, without naming names.

 

The argument taking place in this thread about whether it's appropriate to re-release this content, and what the original owners of that content should get (if anything) is critical to this thread. When we are arguing forcefully against each other, that brings out the most important points on all sides. It's up to Bioware to parse these arguments and decide who is making the better case (assuming that they read it at all). This is the best kind of feedback that Bioware could hope for.

 

Even though I clearly disagree strongly with several of the posters in this thread, I absolutely value their input, and no one should be trying to shut them up.

 

On this ... we can both agree. It does, however, become agravating (at best) ... when things become reduced to some of what we have seen the last couple of days.

I agree... different points of view are good to discuss... but reducing the input of others to some of this lately .... No thank you !

 

BTW.. it should be noted that you and I are not always on the same page.... but we chose a higher path in presenting that discussion here in the forums !

 

EDIT: and for the record old friend .. I'm not trying to shut anyone up ... just trying to dial down the flames a bit and stay focused on the presentation of opinion and objectivity .. (if that makes sense).

Edited May 15, 2019 by OlBuzzard

[QuinlanSaathis]

Let me clear something up for a few people, without naming names.

 

The argument taking place in this thread about whether it's appropriate to re-release this content, and what the original owners of that content should get (if anything) is critical to this thread. When we are arguing forcefully against each other, that brings out the most important points on all sides. It's up to Bioware to parse these arguments and decide who is making the better case (assuming that they read it at all). This is the best kind of feedback that Bioware could hope for.

 

Even though I clearly disagree strongly with several of the posters in this thread, I absolutely value their input, and no one should be trying to shut them up.

 

Very well stated.

[OlBuzzard]

Let me clear this up for everyone :

 

An entitlement is the right to a particular privilege or benefit, granted by law. You have a legal entitlement to speak to a lawyer if you're ever arrested and put in jail.

 

Your entitlement program at work might offer various benefits, or you might receive a medical entitlement once you reach a certain age. These are just basic things you get.

 

More recently, entitlement has taken on a critical sense. If someone has a sense of entitlement, that means the person believes he deserves certain privileges — and he's arrogant about it. The term "culture of entitlement" suggests that many people now have highly unreasonable expectations about what they are entitled to.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/entitlement

 

That should educate anyone who doesn’t understand what is going on here.

 

Thank You ! Well said. (Better than the way I came across earlier). Sorry if I got a bit frustrated !! There is a better way to discuss this ! It DID START that way.. Just need to keep focused on the task at hand !

[Azerraak]

These rewards were exclusive to subscribers that maintained a sub throughout that period of time. They should not be re-issued or if they are they should be altered from the original versions.

 

If they wish to run another similar promotion this year with the same requirements then they can give out an hk-55b reskinned model and allow people that qualify for the rewards to run "Chapter 10b" allowing them to get z0-0m-b.

 

The requirements for the original rewards were clearly stated at the time and the devs should uphold the rules they set.

[IzumiCurtis]

As someone who did get HK-55 and the chapter, I have no problem whatsoever with more people getting a chance to earn it. More people having it isn't going to make the chapter any less amusing or take away the fact that I've played through it and got it three years before they (potentially) will.

[BRKMSN]

Correct. The "I've been lied to" narrative just seems like fake outrage in order to obstruct bringing the content back. There have been so many exclusive rewards brought back over the years, both from in-game events and previous sub rewards.

 

The ambiguous wording of the promotions is deliberate. The social media posts below confirm this:

 

 

Last chance to ever obtain? Or last chance to obtain them from this specific promotion? In these particular examples, it's obviously the latter. In other cases, it may be the former.

 

Plenty of other exclusive rewards haven't come back yet and probably never will. There's always a chance they won't, so anyone claiming this will affect their decision to indulge in future promotions is just lying to themselves.

 

If they offer Malgus as a 7-month sub reward next week, you think anyone is going to want to take the risk that they can just get him at some unknown date in the future instead, much less want to wait 3 years for him and potentially pay more than if they got him in the original promotion? Of course not.

Just out of curiosity, from the time they announced we would be getting the bounty contract weekly event, at what time did they ever not describe it as a recurring event? How much did they charge people to participate? What was the reason for the "last chance" warning ... to hype a free , non-exclusive in game event or to generate an urgency to spend money on the game? How many promo offers have been described as recurring at release?

 

Since they were up front from the get go about recurring events, it's no surprise that the events actually recur regularly and have been brought back ... what ... 30-40 times now? HK & bonus chapter have not been brought back yet. Heck, the Dev response in this thread acknowledges that it wasn't intended to be brought back. The implications suggest that certain things designed to generate immediate cash flow would not return and that recurring events would end, but return later. I personally don't feel like I'm the one reading into anything.

[OlBuzzard]

These rewards were exclusive to subscribers that maintained a sub throughout that period of time. They should not be re-issued or if they are they should be altered from the original versions.

 

If they wish to run another similar promotion this year with the same requirements then they can give out an hk-55b reskinned model and allow people that qualify for the rewards to run "Chapter 10b" allowing them to get z0-0m-b.

 

The requirements for the original rewards were clearly stated at the time and the devs should uphold the rules they set.

 

hmmm ... not sure I agree entirely .. but seems interesting.

 

Truthfully: since I have 12 (one for each character)... I'd be glad to part with one or two of mine to help.. (Yeah I know that's not possible) ... But I'd rather be on the side of giving to others who have now joined the group as a subscriber to encourage them to stay. Things just have a way of working themselvs out better that way! I've found this true in RL more often than not !

[Darevsool]

I may have missed it before, but looking at someone's recent post got me thinking...

 

WHAT, EXACTLY, is the problem with that people have with the idea of the devs reissuing the story?

 

Getting the companion?

Getting the HK themed rewards?

 

If it's the rewards, the helmet/guns/swords/HK jetpack/etc.. Ok. I can actually understand a certain amount of reluctance towards that.

 

But if it's actually "no you can't do the story because you chose not to sub during that time" or even "no you can't do the story because you didn't even know the game existed and/or weren't playing, but had the unfortunate timing to discover, and sub, just two weeks later"

 

That I don't understand, or agree with.

[QuinlanSaathis]

I may have missed it before, but looking at someone's recent post got me thinking...

 

WHAT, EXACTLY, is the problem with that people have with the idea of the devs reissuing the story?

 

Getting the companion?

Getting the HK themed rewards?

 

If it's the rewards, the helmet/guns/swords/HK jetpack/etc.. Ok. I can actually understand a certain amount of reluctance towards that.

 

But if it's actually "no you can't do the story because you chose not to sub during that time" or even "no you can't do the story because you didn't even know the game existed and/or weren't playing, but had the unfortunate timing to discover, and sub, just two weeks later"

 

That I don't understand, or agree with.

 

Can I politely suggest you read the thread, we have all outlined our stances multiple times.

[Darevsool]

I have, a few times, perused it.

I saw lots of people arguing about their view of the TOS / legalese.

I saw lots of people getting far more bent out of shape about this than I understand (but...whatever...I got bent out of shape over conquest changes a couple years ago...so I can relate - in general anyway)

 

I don't remember seeing anything like

 

"They shouldn't get the same HK helmet I got when I subbed"

 

I could have missed it

[Jadescythe]

I'm honestly curious. Is there anyone pushing to make the content available to players again who received the content and would NOT have subscribed for that 7 month time frame if the content wasn't offered? It feels like most of the debate is over how much the content was worth to the individual player and it's much easier to agree that making it available is no big deal for those who view it as a bonus for something they would have otherwise done.

[QuinlanSaathis]

I have, a few times, perused it.

I saw lots of people arguing about their view of the TOS / legalese.

I saw lots of people getting far more bent out of shape about this than I understand (but...whatever...I got bent out of shape over conquest changes a couple years ago...so I can relate - in general anyway)

 

I don't remember seeing anything like

 

"They shouldn't get the same HK helmet I got when I subbed"

 

I could have missed it

 

Well for me I would prefer they do not release it again as it would be far too hard to get it right and appease everyone in this argument so I think its too sensitive to touch.

 

However if it is released (and it seems likely it will be) it is likely to be a new promotion that offers it such as sub for 6 months and receive the content, and I don't have any real issue with that although I prefer it didn't happen.

 

What the core of my issue is if they run a new promotion as the above, and I qualify for this promotion which I will what do I get for this promotion as I already have the rewards on offer.

That is all I am asking for.

I just want any promotion they run to have rewards for those that haven't got the content and those that have so we can all choose to participate in the promotion.

 

The reason that Bioware is asking about this is because they re-released two companions Shae and Nico with just such a promotion and did not think to offer an alternate reward for those of us that already have them.

This caused quite the uproar at the time so I can only assume Bioware want to avoid that this time which is why they are asking for and hopefully open to feedback.

[Sareeph]

I have, a few times, perused it.

I saw lots of people arguing about their view of the TOS / legalese.

I saw lots of people getting far more bent out of shape about this than I understand (but...whatever...I got bent out of shape over conquest changes a couple years ago...so I can relate - in general anyway)

 

I don't remember seeing anything like

 

"They shouldn't get the same HK helmet I got when I subbed"

 

I could have missed it

 

That's because that is one of the most used uninformed arguments in this discussion. You did not need to be subbed for 7 months to get any of that other stuff. You needed to be a sub when the helmet for instance came out. Each month had a different prize and anyone who was a sub at that time received that prize. The Chapter was the prize for being subbed the entire 7 months.

[Valin_Marr]

Wouldn't Paxton Rall fall into the same category? Didn't you have to be a sub by Dec. 16th I think to get him. Well I wasn't a sub then. So please make him available so I can get him, since it's unfair that I just purchased a 6 month sub again in March. The fact that some people have HK and that other companion is what makes everybodies experience different. Once again i'm sure there are items in WOW that wouldn't be available to me if I started playing today. Every 3 months I don't go on the forums there crying about it. I accept the fact that maybe I wasn't playing when the game came out or at a certain time or I wasn't subbed to received certain titles. What is next people whining about not having the founder title? They were announcing for months that if you subbed from this time to this time there would be a bonus chapter for people who were dedicated. Most people dropped the game for whatever reason. Now people want the prize.

 

If people want to sub for 7 months after its announced that it will be available once again and after the 7 months it's available fine you can have your bonus chapter. I'm so tired of all the crying about this and other topics of social injustice with this game. It's not unfair you don't have everything everybody else has it means you should of subbed instead of being pissed off with the direction of the game during that particular point in time. I just feel that when this game needed our support the most most of you dropped this game and left it high dry only to come back and cry foul now.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Valin_Marr

[Jdast]

 

If people want to sub for 7 months after its announced that it will be available once again and after the 7 months it's available fine you can have your bonus chapter. I'm so tired of all the crying about this and other topics of social injustice with this game.

 

Your position is actually more forgiving than the vast majority of the people in this thread. The only individuals in this thread saying it should be given outright are ones who already have it and are adopting an attitude of: "Frankly, I couldn't care less if people get some enjoyment from a three year-old chapter and a pixelated companion at the end because it has zero impact on my gameplay."

 

Most of us, myself included, are more than happy not only having to meet a new subscription length requirement and -- more importantly -- are also fine with giving some of type of subscriber bonus to those who already have the chapter.

 

The question is -- what should that reward be? Contrary to what some may say, the so-called fiasco and uproar over Shae / Nico / Hexid was a blip on the screen and never materialized (i.e., no one's house shook to steal a phrase). More broadly, some are making such outlandish assumptions combined with a fundamental failure to grasp the plain language of the text that having a rational discussion with them about suitable rewards is impossible.

 

Regardless, I'm extremely confident that BW understands the "sensitivity" of the issue. Every position here has been fully fleshed out IMHO. Frankly, though, it doesn't really matter. If 6.0 is decent, this will fade into the dustbin of forum history where it rightly belongs.

 

Dasty

Edited May 15, 2019 by Jdast

[Darevsool]

Well for me I would prefer they do not release it again as it would be far too hard to get it right and appease everyone in this argument so I think its too sensitive to touch.

 

However if it is released (and it seems likely it will be) it is likely to be a new promotion that offers it such as sub for 6 months and receive the content, and I don't have any real issue with that although I prefer it didn't happen.

 

What the core of my issue is if they run a new promotion as the above, and I qualify for this promotion which I will what do I get for this promotion as I already have the rewards on offer.

That is all I am asking for.

I just want any promotion they run to have rewards for those that haven't got the content and those that have so we can all choose to participate in the promotion.

 

The reason that Bioware is asking about this is because they re-released two companions Shae and Nico with just such a promotion and did not think to offer an alternate reward for those of us that already have them.

This caused quite the uproar at the time so I can only assume Bioware want to avoid that this time which is why they are asking for and hopefully open to feedback.

 

I appreciate the clarification.

 

That's very much like the real world cell phone / cable tv new customer promotions that irk me. Discounted rate for new customers, but nothing for the people who have been using your service for years?

 

I don't really agree with that view in the instance of this game however.

I still say let them have it. Make the restrictions whatever...a 6 month sub up front / or 3600 CC / or after 6 months of continuous subbing...

Since it's the 2nd time around, there's really no need for any rewards, but new subscribers should be able to do the chapter, somehow.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Darevsool

[robertthebard]

I may have missed it before, but looking at someone's recent post got me thinking...

 

WHAT, EXACTLY, is the problem with that people have with the idea of the devs reissuing the story?

 

Getting the companion?

Getting the HK themed rewards?

 

If it's the rewards, the helmet/guns/swords/HK jetpack/etc.. Ok. I can actually understand a certain amount of reluctance towards that.

 

But if it's actually "no you can't do the story because you chose not to sub during that time" or even "no you can't do the story because you didn't even know the game existed and/or weren't playing, but had the unfortunate timing to discover, and sub, just two weeks later"

 

That I don't understand, or agree with.

 

My problem is that we were told that this content was only going to be achievable in this way. Now this content is important enough to argue about for 45+ pages, but not important enough to be re-released in the same manner, hence "6 months of sub instead of 7" and "retroactive instead of continuous from the launch date of the promotion" meaning someone could literally be unsubbed and qualify.

 

I'm against a re-release, for any reason, because I believe we should hold BW to their word, it's not like it wasn't advertised in a specific way. There are plenty of things that I've missed out on, and that's frankly on me, not BW. So if they do re-release this, and if they do make the conditions more lax for the "new" promotion, how am I supposed to believe "stay subbed for x time from y to z to earn xx"? It's not like they're going to hold to that, right? After all, we're here discussing whether they should be held to their word on this. The only difference is, next time it won't be delayed 3 years, it'll be amazing if it takes 3 months for someone to point to this thread and say "see, you've gone back on your word before, what's the big deal about doing it again".

 

"But it's faux outrage" is a common argument, and frankly, I'm not outraged, I'm just not in favor of rehashing a promotion "because feelings". Especially when those calling to rehash the content are completely dismissive of the "feelings" of those who are opposed, so much so that the OP started a new thread to try and minimize the disagreement in this thread.

[juliushorst]

Wouldn't Paxton Rall fall into the same category? Didn't you have to be a sub by Dec. 16th I think to get him. Well I wasn't a sub then. So please make him available so I can get him, since it's unfair that I just purchased a 6 month sub again in March.

I don't mind. If you want him, I'm totally fine with you having him. Does not change my Paxton one bit and doesn't affect my game at all.

 

The fact that some people have HK and that other companion is what makes everybodies experience different.

How so? I already have the other HK. You can barely tell the difference if you run into me on the fleet. Hell, I can barely tell the difference. If they re-worked the chapter to be about my HK - I'd be totally OK with it.

 

Once again i'm sure there are items in WOW that wouldn't be available to me if I started playing today.

I play SWTOR, not WOW. Story and the way the story is told is what keeps me interested in this game. And we're talking about story content.

 

Every 3 months I don't go on the forums there crying about it. I accept the fact that maybe I wasn't playing when the game came out or at a certain time or I wasn't subbed to received certain titles. What is next people whining about not having the founder title?

Titles and cosmetics are one thing. Story content is a different thing.

 

They were announcing for months that if you subbed from this time to this time there would be a bonus chapter for people who were dedicated. Most people dropped the game for whatever reason. Now people want the prize.

I never dropped the game since I joined in March 2016. 2017 was much worse than 2016. In 2016 for your subscription you get: a chapter each month, sub rewards with every chapter, Star Fortress quest with nice rewards, Eternal Championship, DvL event. In 2017 we got: 9 chapters, the most abandoned content in the game (uprisings) and least fun daily area (Iokath) - no sub rewards at all.

 

If people want to sub for 7 months after its announced that it will be available once again and after the 7 months it's available fine you can have your bonus chapter.

That's all I'm asking for. Of course bonus points for Bioware if they offer something to people who already have the chapter and more bonus points if they promise to never do such wonderful promos for story content.

 

I just feel that when this game needed our support the most most of you dropped this game and left it high dry only to come back and cry foul now.

It was not the worst time for SWTOR and I did not drop the game.

[juliushorst]

My problem is that we were told that this content was only going to be achievable in this way. Now this content is important enough to argue about for 45+ pages, but not important enough to be re-released in the same manner, hence "6 months of sub instead of 7" and "retroactive instead of continuous from the launch date of the promotion" meaning someone could literally be unsubbed and qualify.

 

I'm fine with it being 7 months, even 8 months and starting on some specific date if you are fine with such conditions.

[darthjody]

Those of us that are asking for this content are not demanding anything from anyone we are just asking for the content to be considered for rerelease. That’s it nothing more nothing less.

I’ve seen several post about what do we get well you have already got something during that time. HK inspired stuff lots of stuff.

If it gets put on the CM it will just be the SoM and AR that’s it. That alone. So 3400 to 4000 cc is more than fair to any reasonable person. Especially since it’s 3yr old content and during that original promo y’all got mount armor skins and early access to chapters for kotfe. And yes this is important for this conversation.

Now if they did another promotion were be sub for x amount of days then it should apply retroactively or if a 6 month sub is bought with immediate access and about what should y’all get well that’s the question why should you need to get anything if they only offer SoM and AR. You already have something that we don’t. But if they did give something I would say 3400 to 4000 cc just so you could buy whatever you want as a reward for you loyalty.

The was someone in earlier pages that broke it all down to how much this would cost if they put it on the CM. If the did put it on the market then they could still give the people who got it originally the same amount of cc that it would cost us to buy it.

It 3 yr old content so I’m not understanding why anyone would have a problem.

At no time whatsoever did BW say they would never release this content again.

Now the real question is would it really hurt anything or anyone if this was rereleased.

And when I say you it is a general term. Not directed to anyone

Edited May 15, 2019 by darthjody

[robertthebard]

I'm fine with it being 7 months, even 8 months and starting on some specific date if you are fine with such conditions.

 

I'm against the whole idea, because I think they should be held to what they advertised. I am also keenly aware of the PC nature of BW, and know that I'm wasting my time. However, the next time they say "You have to have an active sub from date x to date y, I'm just going to link this thread with "Yeah, right". But for the conditions laid out in the promotion, I may have unsubbed, and there are likely a lot more like me that may have too, considering what was going on at the time. The content isn't the issue, the principle of "this is the only way you're going to get this, until we get enough people wringing their hands on the forums" is. It's very nearly bait and switch, telling us one thing to keep our money coming in, and then, changing the rules because they have our money.

[Keta]

^^ Works for Me...

 

Yeah, me too. I no longer have the slightest bit of angst about giving away old shiny things.

[ceryxp]

snip

 

I'm actually right there with you on not rerunning old sub rewards under new promos. Where we diverge is that I think all rewards should be sold. As I stated previously, sell the stuff then the person can pay the collections unlock fee if they want access on all of their characters. This differs from the sub rewards which grants it to the account as a reward for their subscription.

 

I'm also with you that if they do run a general sub reward promo that it should apply to everyone unlike what happened with the rerelease of Shae and Nico. But my solution is to sell the items so they continue to generate revenue for the game. Instead of repeating any promo BW should be releasing more unique sub rewards.

 

Where you absolutely lose me is your attitude about keeping story content locked away. It would be one thing if BW removed a mission from the game, which they have done, but this is story that is still available, still playable, and shows up in the chapter list making it painfully obvious that BW made the decision to lock story content behind an arbitrary condition.

HK-55 should never have been locked away to begin with. HK should have been put on the companion return terminal like all other story comps who are removed during the story. Second, story content should never have been locked away behind a conditional access restriction. While I disagree, I can understand the mentality of keeping sub rewards locked behind their promo conditions, but I can not accept the argument that story content should remain locked away due to an interpretation of marketing speak that doesn't jibe with the terms and conditions of the promotion. On that we're never going to agree.

[Drenovade]

I'm against the whole idea, because I think they should be held to what they advertised. I am also keenly aware of the PC nature of BW, and know that I'm wasting my time. However, the next time they say "You have to have an active sub from date x to date y, I'm just going to link this thread with "Yeah, right". But for the conditions laid out in the promotion, I may have unsubbed, and there are likely a lot more like me that may have too, considering what was going on at the time. The content isn't the issue, the principle of "this is the only way you're going to get this, until we get enough people wringing their hands on the forums" is. It's very nearly bait and switch, telling us one thing to keep our money coming in, and then, changing the rules because they have our money.

 

I don't know who you still think you're fooling. It's been long established that Bioware has every right to make it available again in either a new promotion or as a separate item for sale. Having it remain forever exclusive to those who got it the first time was just your assumption and preferred version of reality.

 

If you really want to think you've been lied to and are being treated unfairly, go ahead and keep doing so, but you're only causing yourself an unnecessary hard time under misguided notions. A lot of people here who have the chapter already have stated they are happy for it to be released again and have no problem with it at all. Maybe you can follow their example instead of getting so hung up on having unobtainables that make you feel special.