It’s time to make HK-55 and Chapter 10 available for subs??

[Jadescythe]

More entitled demands.

 

This is going to be your argument? Are you not on the side of those suggesting that new players and players who missed the promotion are entitled to have access to this content in some way because it's been 3 years? This was probably a very poor choice of words...

[robertthebard]

No one actually cares about convincing you. This thread is for Bioware's consumption.

 

 

 

More entitled demands.

 

This thread is an entitled demand.

 

NEWS FLASH: I have the content. I did what was required to get it, whether I was playing or not. There is nothing entitled about believing that, if you want it, you should have met the same requirements. What's entitled is believing that they should go back on that because you're hurt that you don't have it.

 

You're right, it is for BW's consumption, and if I just read the OP and went on, BW would think that I'm perfectly fine with them misleading me about acquiring this content. I'm not. I'd say that I'm sorry that this offends you, or your sensibilities, but I'm really not.

[Sareeph]

See, this is where you're getting a little confused. It is one thing to describe something as exclusive, but it is a separate matter to set a specific time period for which it will remain being so. This content, which no one else has been able to play, has been exclusive for 3 years now.

 

There is nothing in what they have said to suggest the content will remain exclusive for all of eternity. This was the same kind of wording used for promotions like Shae and Nico, who were made available again for a limited time, as well as Hexid and the rewards of several in-game events, all of which have now returned to the game and become available again.

 

I'm afraid you're going to have to come up with something a lot better than that if you hope to sound convincing.

 

That's where you are wrong. I am not trying nor do I have to convince anyone of anything. I am merely pointing out that Ben said specifically that this was for those that qualified between those dates. I don't care if people get the chapter. I know there will be very little trust if any remaining with a lot of the "Most Loyal Customers" described by Ben that remain though. As has been said, they can do what they wish but they have to think of the ramifications for doing so and no amount of you trying to debate people will change that.

[JediMasterAlex]

This is going to be your argument? Are you not on the side of those suggesting that new players and players who missed the promotion are entitled to have access to this content in some way because it's been 3 years? This was probably a very poor choice of words...

 

No, I don't think those who don't have it are entitled to anything. We've asked Bioware if they will re-release the content. If they chose to do so, we who do not have it will have to pay for it in some way. That's it. I don't believe Bioware has any obligation to re-release it, nor do I think people who don't have it "deserve" or "need" it. I've repeated this point many times in this thread.

 

You're right, it is for BW's consumption, and if I just read the OP and went on, BW would think that I'm perfectly fine with them misleading me about acquiring this content. I'm not. I'd say that I'm sorry that this offends you, or your sensibilities, but I'm really not.

 

It really doesn't offend me. I think it's good that you and others are expressing your opinions in this thread.

[DarthEnrique]

This thread is an entitled demand.

 

NEWS FLASH: I have the content. I did what was required to get it, whether I was playing or not. There is nothing entitled about believing that, if you want it, you should have met the same requirements. What's entitled is believing that they should go back on that because you're hurt that you don't have it.

 

You're right, it is for BW's consumption, and if I just read the OP and went on, BW would think that I'm perfectly fine with them misleading me about acquiring this content. I'm not. I'd say that I'm sorry that this offends you, or your sensibilities, but I'm really not.

 

Do you understand the definition of entitled? Those who are saying the chapter should not be made available again are the ones who are the very definition of entitlement. You think you deserve special treatment cause you subbed for so long and got the chapter and so no one else should get it. I have HK-55 for example and if they re-issued him I wouldn’t care. Why it bothers people if they re-issued this chapter is stupid for a lack of a better term. I could really careless what they re-issue any of the sub-rewards from KOTFE, in the end it is BW’s decision that they re-issue it and based on what Eric has posted it is actually being considered and should be. They already re-issued quite a few of the sub-rewards, Nico, Shae Vizla, the KOTOR bike. So really it should be no big deal they reissue this one.

 

That being said, I honestly think it was dumb of Bioware to lock story content behind a sub-reward system. It should never have been done that way when other story content is available just by having a subscription, eg. all the expansions are available to subscribers because it is story content. The HK-55 bonus chapter completes the Shroud storyline that is available in the game at level 50 to get the microbinoculars and many of us have done that side story. So to lock story content behind a sub-reward system was dumb.

Edited May 14, 2019 by DarthEnrique

[JattaGin]

Dear Bioware,

 

the main argument in this thread is that some people think you should re-offer the HK-rewards.

 

If you go with this argument, I expect that you do the same with all the other limited offers.

 

That means: If you hand out the bonus chapter, I want to be given the option to obtain the pre-order rewards as well as the rewards from the Razer (and other) promotions. I didn't get them back then, because I didn't want them then. But now I want them.

 

If you give in to the request in this thread, you have to give in to my request as well. It's the same scenario. You'd create a precedent. Actually, you already did when you gave away Niko and Shae again.

 

To me, it feels like there is only the Sith way: dealing in absolutes. Either make everything available to everyone or nothing at all.

[JediMasterAlex]

I expect that you do the same with all the other limited offers.

 

If you give in to the request in this thread, you have to give in to my request as well.

 

hmmmmmmm

[Drenovade]

To me, it feels like there is only the Sith way: dealing in absolutes. Either make everything available to everyone or nothing at all.

 

Why should that be the logic used? They don't have to make everything available again and obviously they shouldn't. Story-related chapters and companions are a good place to draw the line. You're trying to say it's "all or nothing" in order to make our request sound ridiculous when it's actually quite reasonable.

 

Story content should always come back at some point, otherwise those who can't access it will have a degraded gameplay experience in this story-driven MMO. All the other non-story-related rewards: titles, armor, weapons, cosmetics, etc. can remain exclusive instead.

[robertthebard]

Do you understand the definition of entitled? Those who are saying the chapter should not be made available again are the ones who are the very definition of entitlement. You think you deserve special treatment cause you subbed for so long and got the chapter and so no one else should get it. I have HK-55 for example and if they re-issued him I wouldn’t care. Why it bothers people if they re-issued this chapter is stupid for a lack of a better term. I could really careless what they re-issue any of the sub-rewards from KOTFE, in the end it is BW’s decision that they re-issue it and based on what Eric has posted it is actually being considered and should be. They already re-issued quite a few of the sub-rewards, Nico, Shae Vizla, the KOTOR bike. So really it should be no big deal they reissue this one.

 

That being said, I honestly think it was dumb of Bioware to lock story content behind a sub-reward system. It should never have been done that way when other story content is available just by having a subscription, eg. all the expansions are available to subscribers because it is story content. The HK-55 bonus chapter completes the Shroud storyline that is available in the game at level 50 to get the microbinoculars and many of us have done that side story. So to lock story content behind a sub-reward system was dumb.

 

I evidently understand it a lot better than you do: "I want what you have because I didn't get it when it was available".

 

Re-issuing any of them was a bad idea, I just wasn't here for the others.

 

I do, however, agree that releasing story like that was probably a bad idea, but as has been pointed out, they had to do something, because subs were dropping like flies, conversations on the forum not withstanding, I imagine their backend numbers said "Do something fast". All things being equal, they should stick to what they decided to do, and avoid it in the future, if they can.

[robertthebard]

Why should that be the logic used? They don't have to make everything available again and obviously they shouldn't. Story-related chapters and companions are a good place to draw the line. You're trying to say it's "all or nothing" in order to make our request sound ridiculous when it's actually quite reasonable.

 

Story content should always come back at some point, otherwise those who can't access it will have a degraded gameplay experience in this story-driven MMO. All the other non-story-related rewards: titles, armor, weapons, cosmetics, etc. can remain exclusive instead.

 

Do tell, in what way does not having this story degrade the game? It has absolutely no bearing on anything that happens before, and nothing after, barring 2 companions in your roster that, in most of the story driven content will be excluded, just as the vast majority of companions are right now. There's a thread on the first page discussing just this issue in regard to LIs, so this is just two more companions that will be getting the same treatment, with the difference being, someone actually had to pay for those, so then what happens when they find out they're not part of the story? Another thread claiming they were ripped off because they bought two comps that are never used again, in the story?

[OlBuzzard]

 

Getting lots of support for HK-55 and chapter 10 to made available for subscribers who missed out.

Especially those people who’ve been continuously subbed for the last 6-12 months.

 

Eric, can you please bring this up with Keith. It would add some extra playable content into the game for those who’ve not done it, while we wait for 6.0 to be released.

 

EDIT: I’ve started another thread for everyone to discuss past rewards for older subs and what would continue to make you feel valued if old rewards were offered again.

Please take that part of the discussion over there so this thread can stop being derailed with bickering http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=963865

 

and ....

 

This conversation is certainly timely as it is a topic we have been revisiting internally as well. We have been actively talking about how, when, and if it would be possible to get make the HK chapter available again in some form. Whether that is a sub reward, sold on the market, etc.

 

Here is the thing we are trying to be sensitive to. Individuals who have it right now subbed for a number of months to get it and so if/when we bring it back, we need to make sure that we do it in a way that is fair to what they went through to get it. Ex: if it was a sub reward it would likely require multiple months of sub, or, if it was in the market it would be sold for a premium.

 

There is a lot of sensitivity on both sides. We agree that we would love to have a way for players who don't have it to get it (since it is story content, afterall). But it has to be done in a way that is fair to those who already have it. Let us know your thoughts (for, or against) and I can make sure all of your feedback is captured in our on-going discussion.

 

As a note I won't likely have an update on this in the short-tem, but as soon as I have any details I will pass them on.

 

-eric

 

 

Someone tries to show kindness... and we get what is a positive response from Eric. Nothing conclusive mind you .. just another positive act of kindness...

 

And this turns into a flame war ! That's ALL you can call it. This is as ridiculous as it gets !

Go ahead ... tear THIS post down:

Line

By line

By line

By line

None of you will change the truth of what was intended to be the right approach. This constant bickering is not offering one ounce of solution or suggestions ..

 

Only another #me too done wrong

# me too I'm mad

#me too ... blah blah blah ...

 

get back on topic and offer suggestions without the flame war crap ! Oh ! There's a novel idea !

 

An we all wonder why we have such a hard time with everything else on these forums. No wonder so many people avoid them.

 

I've got stuff to do.

Zips into flame retardant suit.... grabs a soda !!

Go ahead ... have at it !

[Drenovade]

Do tell, in what way does not having this story degrade the game? It has absolutely no bearing on anything that happens before, and nothing after, barring 2 companions in your roster that, in most of the story driven content will be excluded, just as the vast majority of companions are right now. There's a thread on the first page discussing just this issue in regard to LIs, so this is just two more companions that will be getting the same treatment, with the difference being, someone actually had to pay for those, so then what happens when they find out they're not part of the story? Another thread claiming they were ripped off because they bought two comps that are never used again, in the story?

 

One of the biggest selling points of this game is how much focus it places on the story and role-playing aspect. Companions like HK-55 who was an important supporting character, Z0-0M who I won't give spoilers but is connected to a storyline from RotHC expansion, and even Ranos, who your character has a conversation with and who you can inquire about your missing companions.

 

The EU canon(aka "Legends") is likely to show these characters as having been recruited into the Alliance. So for a game that's all about championing the storyline, it feels terrible to not have one's own in-game experience accurately reflect the established lore of the franchise.

 

They have already come out with a game and rulebook that show things like the Barsen'thor was male and was the same individual buried in a tomb that was one of the locations in another Star Wars game called Jedi Academy. So for players who care about the lore like myself, this kind of stuff matters.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Drenovade

[denavin]

Dear Bioware,

 

the main argument in this thread is that some people think you should re-offer the HK-rewards.

 

If you go with this argument, I expect that you do the same with all the other limited offers.

 

That means: If you hand out the bonus chapter, I want to be given the option to obtain the pre-order rewards as well as the rewards from the Razer (and other) promotions. I didn't get them back then, because I didn't want them then. But now I want them.

 

If you give in to the request in this thread, you have to give in to my request as well. It's the same scenario. You'd create a precedent. Actually, you already did when you gave away Niko and Shae again.

 

To me, it feels like there is only the Sith way: dealing in absolutes. Either make everything available to everyone or nothing at all.

 

^^ Works for Me...

[TrixxieTriss]

I think a poll would work the best if they want to see some accurate data. Forum is for subs only so it's rather impossible for someone to create sockpuppet accounts to mess with it.

Over 40 pages of the same arguments for and against won't work, I believe.

 

Most of it is the same person(s) arguing and picking apart people’s opinions. If you remove all of those posts that are derailing this thread, it’s probably only 20 pages.

Edited May 14, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Do you understand the definition of entitled?

 

Let me clear this up for everyone :

 

An entitlement is the right to a particular privilege or benefit, granted by law. You have a legal entitlement to speak to a lawyer if you're ever arrested and put in jail.

 

Your entitlement program at work might offer various benefits, or you might receive a medical entitlement once you reach a certain age. These are just basic things you get.

 

More recently, entitlement has taken on a critical sense. If someone has a sense of entitlement, that means the person believes he deserves certain privileges — and he's arrogant about it. The term "culture of entitlement" suggests that many people now have highly unreasonable expectations about what they are entitled to.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/entitlement

 

That should educate anyone who doesn’t understand what is going on here.

Edited May 14, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Dear Bioware,

 

the main argument in this thread is that some people think you should re-offer the HK-rewards.

 

If you go with this argument, I expect that you do the same with all the other limited offers.

 

That means: If you hand out the bonus chapter, I want to be given the option to obtain the pre-order rewards as well as the rewards from the Razer (and other) promotions. I didn't get them back then, because I didn't want them then. But now I want them.

 

If you give in to the request in this thread, you have to give in to my request as well. It's the same scenario. You'd create a precedent. Actually, you already did when you gave away Niko and Shae again.

 

To me, it feels like there is only the Sith way: dealing in absolutes. Either make everything available to everyone or nothing at all.

 

Bioware have made it clear in the past they cannot offer rewards that they have partnered with 3rd parties due to legal reasons.

The last time this was brought up on the forums was during an Nvidia Promotion that Nvidia F’d up and hardly any swtor players received the rewards.

I’m all for them offering past rewards again, but in these cases, I believe they are legally limited due to a 3rd party contract.

[JediMasterAlex]

"I want what you have because I didn't get it when it was available".

 

That's not why I want it. I want it to experience the story. The fact that other people have it is irrelevant.

[JediMasterAlex]

And this turns into a flame war ! That's ALL you can call it. This is as ridiculous as it gets !

 

Let me clear something up for a few people, without naming names.

 

The argument taking place in this thread about whether it's appropriate to re-release this content, and what the original owners of that content should get (if anything) is critical to this thread. When we are arguing forcefully against each other, that brings out the most important points on all sides. It's up to Bioware to parse these arguments and decide who is making the better case (assuming that they read it at all). This is the best kind of feedback that Bioware could hope for.

 

Even though I clearly disagree strongly with several of the posters in this thread, I absolutely value their input, and no one should be trying to shut them up.

Edited May 14, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[kodrac]

Most of it is the same person(s) arguing and picking apart people’s opinions. If you remove all of this posts that are derailing this thread, it’s probably only 20 pages.

 

All they're doing at this point is throwing a tantrum. It's full on feet stomping, nappy change time. Thing is, they don't need to convince anyone in this thread they're right and everyone else is wrong, they need to give BW a good reason and so far their only argument is semantics. Semantics won't convince BW of anything. BW can point to their EULA and use the exact same semantics argument against them. BW uses legal speak in their promotions for a reason. It's a non-factor.

[juliushorst]

Dear Bioware,

 

the main argument in this thread is that some people think you should re-offer the HK-rewards.

 

If you go with this argument, I expect that you do the same with all the other limited offers.

 

That means: If you hand out the bonus chapter, I want to be given the option to obtain the pre-order rewards as well as the rewards from the Razer (and other) promotions. I didn't get them back then, because I didn't want them then. But now I want them.

 

If you give in to the request in this thread, you have to give in to my request as well. It's the same scenario. You'd create a precedent. Actually, you already did when you gave away Niko and Shae again.

 

To me, it feels like there is only the Sith way: dealing in absolutes. Either make everything available to everyone or nothing at all.

 

OK, other people having the same stuff I have doesn't affect me in any way. Would be nice if stuff that actually took work to get (Ranos, XP armor, other DvL stuff for example) required the same work but other than that I don't care.

[juliushorst]

I know there will be very little trust if any remaining with a lot of the "Most Loyal Customers" described by Ben that remain though..

 

I kept my sub going when the game was dealing with some... situations and problems that Ben is believed to be responsible for (those problems would be little to no content and early Galactic Command in 2017, no sub rewards on top of that). Haven't missed one day of subscription since I joined in March 2016. I would call myself a loyal customer. And I want the chapter Sure, as stated before, I'd be happy if people who had it were rewarded in some alternate way. They can even keep HK, already have the one that can be earned by a quest. Just want the chapter... and Z0-0M would be nice too because of who she really is.

[robertthebard]

All they're doing at this point is throwing a tantrum. It's full on feet stomping, nappy change time. Thing is, they don't need to convince anyone in this thread they're right and everyone else is wrong, they need to give BW a good reason and so far their only argument is semantics. Semantics won't convince BW of anything. BW can point to their EULA and use the exact same semantics argument against them. BW uses legal speak in their promotions for a reason. It's a non-factor.

 

1. I speak british, I know what that means...*

 

2. The rest of it reads an awful lot like "They need to shut up, or BW won't give it to us".

 

Rest assured, I know I'm wasting my time typing these, because BW is still PC enough to not want to hurt people's feelings by telling them no, no matter how much they should tell them no.

 

*No, we don't speak the same English over here as you do over there. Fanny is a good example, yes? Here, it's butt, but that's not what it is over there, is it???

[DarthEnrique]

I evidently understand it a lot better than you do: "I want what you have because I didn't get it when it was available".

 

That's not the definition here I'll help you.

believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

 

Again sounds like people who say the chapter shouldn't be re-issued because they deserve special treatment for being subbed for the duration to get the chapter so no one else should get it. Sounds entitled to me.

Edited May 15, 2019 by DarthEnrique

[DarthEnrique]

Let me clear this up for everyone :

 

An entitlement is the right to a particular privilege or benefit, granted by law. You have a legal entitlement to speak to a lawyer if you're ever arrested and put in jail.

 

Your entitlement program at work might offer various benefits, or you might receive a medical entitlement once you reach a certain age. These are just basic things you get.

 

More recently, entitlement has taken on a critical sense. If someone has a sense of entitlement, that means the person believes he deserves certain privileges — and he's arrogant about it. The term "culture of entitlement" suggests that many people now have highly unreasonable expectations about what they are entitled to.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/entitlement

 

That should educate anyone who doesn’t understand what is going on here.

 

Wow! Nicely done. I have to agree with this. As I pointed out before I don't feel because I subbed and got certain rewards makes me entitled to be the only person to have them. I don't care if they re-issue companions or the other rewards that we got from KOTFE or KOTET because honestly I could careless, I play the game cause I like it not because I get special rewards others don't get.

Edited May 15, 2019 by DarthEnrique

[robertthebard]

That's not the definition here I'll help you.

 

 

Again sounds like people who say the chapter shouldn't be re-issued because they deserve special treatment for being subbed for the duration to get the chapter so no one else should get it. Sounds entitled to me.

 

...and from my perspective, it sounds an awful lot like people that want it, but don't meet the requirements. I'd say that that's pretty arrogant, wouldn't you? Or "let's make it a 6 month sub" when it was initially offered with a 7 month sub. Or how about "it should be free or don't bother" such as this post? Go ahead, explain how this isn't entitlement? It's amazing, isn't it, how one can twist the motivations if one wants to, such as thinking that when they weasel 7 months of subscription out of their fans for some content, others coming in and saying "well that's too much, we shouldn't have to pay that for 3 year old content" then get to accuse those that actually paid it of being entitled. Bizzaro world.