Let's Talk Win Trading...

[Sirolos]

Offenders should also have their account zeroed out. So they get to start over playing the game and earning everything all over. Hopefully without cheating and if done again. Perma banned. For the continued growth of a community the last thing you want to do is continue to be lenient on cheaters Edited March 21, 2019 by Sirolos

[merovejec]

As you can see the trend still remains. There are some players that have mirror classes both imp and rep side and they have climbed the leaderboards with both toons from start. This is what I mentioned about the obvious behavior when some people find it hard to climbed the ladder but some have no issues to bring a Sentinel and a Marauder to top 10. This is one thing Devs should consider and again we have a large participation of Leviathan and TH servers.

 

This isnt hacking, these arent bots, this is groups of people working together.

Edited March 28, 2019 by merovejec

[TrixxieTriss]

Offenders should also have their account zeroed out. So they get to start over playing the game and earning everything all over. Hopefully without cheating and if done again. Perma banned. For the continued growth of a community the last thing you want to do is continue to be lenient on cheaters

 

100% agree with this approach

[AocaVII]

This is how a majority of the cheating happens you can see it on top of the leaderboards it's very noticeable. How people looking for cheating in ranked are missing this don't see this is beyond me.

 

8 players q at 4-7 AM their time zone 3 either don't take the pop or leave the wz so it becomes a 1 vs 4 ranked wz and they let the 1 win for max ello. This is shown by the lack of votes they received in proportion to wins simply because they are the only one in the warzone and can't get votes ! They do this for the 1st 10-25 matches for max ello.

 

For example a player with 11 wins and 0 votes and a 1400-1500 or more rating. They either leave it at a high rating or continue and you see a disproportional number of votes to wins so it's may look like this eventually 50 wins 35 votes so it's less noticeable.

 

I know plenty of legit players who votes are proportional to wins. It's a shame that these players don't have a higher ranking because of this obsession with ranking that those cheating the system have; compelling them to go to these depths to gain a ranking.

 

It seems easy to just look at the logs of what these players did and take action.

[MandoMetal]

This is how a majority of the cheating happens you can see it on top of the leaderboards it's very noticeable. How people looking for cheating in ranked are missing this don't see this is beyond me.

 

8 players q at 4-7 AM their time zone 3 either don't take the pop or leave the wz so it becomes a 1 vs 4 ranked wz and they let the 1 win for max ello. This is shown by the lack of votes they received in proportion to wins simply because they are the only one in the warzone and can't get votes ! They do this for the 1st 10-25 matches for max ello.

 

For example a player with 11 wins and 0 votes and a 1400-1500 or more rating. They either leave it at a high rating or continue and you see a disproportional number of votes to wins so it's may look like this eventually 50 wins 35 votes so it's less noticeable.

 

I know plenty of legit players who votes are proportional to wins. It's a shame that these players don't have a higher ranking because of this obsession with ranking that those cheating the system have; compelling them to go to these depths to gain a ranking.

 

It seems easy to just look at the logs of what these players did and take action.

 

MVP votes mean very little if not nothing. All you have to do is right click the queue icon and leave the match early, or just leave before someone votes for you and any votes you receive are never even counted.

[Darthanimus]

Nice, I am glad to see this happening, many skilled players are not fairly rewarded for their dedication and playtime. I would like to add something I have observed in ranked.

 

There are certain pvp guilds that I have observed queuing ranked at quiet times, such as late nights and early mornings. A guild will get a group together (when the queue has died) and all queue for a match. They will then win trade and get amazing ratings, without the interference of PuGs. This goes on rather a lot and needs investigating.

 

I believe there is an element of "high achievers" that do all they can to manipulate the system. One thing is for sure, not all skilled people have good ratings and are justly rewarded, and not all of those with high ratings are deserving of the rewards and recognition.

[TrixxieTriss]

Nice, I am glad to see this happening, many skilled players are not fairly rewarded for their dedication and playtime. I would like to add something I have observed in ranked.

 

There are certain pvp guilds that I have observed queuing ranked at quiet times, such as late nights and early mornings. A guild will get a group together (when the queue has died) and all queue for a match. They will then win trade and get amazing ratings, without the interference of PuGs. This goes on rather a lot and needs investigating.

 

I believe there is an element of "high achievers" that do all they can to manipulate the system. One thing is for sure, not all skilled people have good ratings and are justly rewarded, and not all of those with high ratings are deserving of the rewards and recognition.

 

But how do you police that? I play at strange hours and when I still had a pvp guild, you would end up mostly playing together because we were in the APAC region.

 

Some matches you would win, depending on who got put on your team because we had some players in the guild who were much better than the others. Some had higher ELO and others lower. The better players would end up getting higher ELO, while the others would slowly reduce.

 

Yes, sometimes people would swap Alts to not destroy their ELO if they were losing. It’s human nature to do this and many solo queues do this if they are getting smashed because of who is in the queue. Sometimes people would swap so they could practice on a particular class they may not be as strong on or they are trying to learn tactics. Other times people would swap just for a change of scenery or to mix up the matches more if they were becoming boring and predictable.

 

There are so many reasons why it might look like a guild is win trading and I dare say some probably do. But how can you affectively police that and be 100% certain that is happening.

Edited April 17, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[sharkfishman]

But how do you police that? I play at strange hours and when I still had a pvp guild, you would end up mostly playing together because we were in the APAC region.

 

Some matches you would win, depending on who got put on your team because we had some players in the guild who were much better than the others. Some had higher ELO and others lower. The better players would end up getting higher ELO, while the others would slowly reduce.

 

Yes, sometimes people would swap Alts to not destroy their ELO if they were losing. It’s human nature to do this and many solo queues do this if they are getting smashed because of who is in the queue. Sometimes people would swap so they could practice on a particular class they may not be as strong on or they are trying to learn tactics. Other times people would swap just for a change of scenery or to mix up the matches more if they were becoming boring and predictable.

 

There are so many reasons why it might look like a guild is win trading and I dare say some probably do. But how can you affectively police that and be 100% certain that is happening.

 

"The better players would consistently get higher ELO, and the lesser players would naturally decline." This would be a normal outcome. Now what if the consistently higher ELO players swapped alts and were suddenly losing match after match after match on said alt. Pretty sure it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's going on.

[TrixxieTriss]

"The better players would consistently get higher ELO, and the lesser players would naturally decline." This would be a normal outcome. Now what if the consistently higher ELO players swapped alts and were suddenly losing match after match after match on said alt. Pretty sure it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's going on.

 

That depends on if they are the same class, spec and have the same gear.

 

If they are on different Alts, it doesn’t mean they are good on that class or have gear as good.

 

I’m not saying people don’t do it. I’m just pointing out the flaw in the logic that people who play ranked at odd hours and gain ranking must be win trading.

 

I can only play at odd hours and can’t control who is around then. If my ranking goes up during that time, I don’t want to be tarnished with the belief that people who play late at night NA or EU times are cheating the system.

 

If they are cheating then something needs to be done. But I dont think it’s as simple as saying it’s a guild and they play late at night

Edited April 17, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[merovejec]

There are certain pvp guilds that I have observed queuing ranked at quiet times, such as late nights and early mornings. A guild will get a group together (when the queue has died) and all queue for a match. They will then win trade and get amazing ratings, without the interference of PuGs. This goes on rather a lot and needs investigating.

 

This is probably last and most complicated step Mike and the Team needs to take to totally rid ranked of cheaters. Even now, yet again a new guild was formed, or maybe renamed, and I see a lot of the "famous" players in it. This is what they need to watch now, but as you said it takes a lot of time and careful consideration.

[Lhancelot]

BW: Stop chasing your tail in circles trying to keep track and catch all the cheaters.

 

Get rid of this antiquated, totally corrupted system of ELO rating and replace it with a system that isn't easily manipulated and cheated.

[sharkfishman]

That depends on if they are the same class, spec and have the same gear.

 

If they are on different Alts, it doesn’t mean they are good on that class or have gear as good.

 

I’m not saying people don’t do it. I’m just pointing out the flaw in the logic that people who play ranked at odd hours and gain ranking must be win trading.

 

I can only play at odd hours and can’t control who is around then. If my ranking goes up during that time, I don’t want to be tarnished with the belief that people who play late at night NA or EU times are cheating the system.

 

If they are cheating then something needs to be done. But I dont think it’s as simple as saying it’s a guild and they play late at night

 

If leaguemates coordinate choosing alts to let their other members' mains benefit, then it's called win trading, pure and simple.

 

If everyone runs alts to have some fun (not sure why this would happen in any ranked queue), it's much different than "hey, my ranking is great, now it's time to switch to an alt and lose match after match against my teammates who are on their mains." This would especially be seen if at the EXACT SAME TIME as high-elo players switch to low-elo alts, people who were playing low alts "magically" happen to switch to their main toons to benefit.

 

It's not as hard as you suggest to see what the intention of people playing is, even in small communities such as leagues. One match would be hard to tell. Twenty matches are much easier to establish a pattern. 50 matches are virtually incontrovertible.

[SlimeyDoom]

I can only play at odd hours and can’t control who is around then. If my ranking goes up during that time, I don’t want to be tarnished with the belief that people who play late at night NA or EU times are cheating the system.

 

It’s ok trixxie, you’re safe. Your rating would never go up in the first place.

[TrixxieTriss]

It’s ok trixxie, you’re safe. Your rating would never go up in the first place.

 

LoL, that’s probably true

[Bar-Da-Voya]

So much match throwing and win trading happening tonight on Satele Shan, completely unfair to the people trying to play legitimate games. ELO doesn't work for Solo Ranked when you have no control over your teammates and opponents and certain people win trade with each other or leave matches and cripple your team. Taking action weeks later doesn't help the legitimate players who have lost rating because of cheating.

[TrixxieTriss]

So much match throwing and win trading happening tonight on Satele Shan, completely unfair to the people trying to play legitimate games. ELO doesn't work for Solo Ranked when you have no control over your teammates and opponents and certain people win trade with each other or leave matches and cripple your team. Taking action weeks later doesn't help the legitimate players who have lost rating because of cheating.

 

Make sure you report them to Musco and ask him to pass them onto Mike🅱️

[Rion_Starkiller]

Anyone know if that flyhacker got banned? I did several matches last night on SF and didn't see him. Edited May 1, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[omeru]

MikeB lets stop talking about it and you start taking action and this actions shouldnt be 2 days ban i mean real actions.

[TrixxieTriss]

Anyone know if that flyhacker got banned? I did several matches last night on SF and didn't see him.

 

There is a new thread about him. Not sure when that was recorded.

[JediMasterAlex]

There is a new thread about him. Not sure when that was recorded.

 

I believe it is recent. He has been cheating constantly over the last few days. I had personally never witnessed him cheating before a few days ago, but now he's doing it almost every match that he's in.

[Rion_Starkiller]

I think he has a jugg on imp side as well. A couple weeks ago, I was alive 1v3, but everyone was spread out across the map. Just as I kill merc, the mara joins the fight. I smoke him too. Unfortunately, the 3rd jugg is no where to be found. I never did find him. We went to acid and I died with the jugg taking 0 damage. My heroic victory turned tragedy. Originally, I thought he might have found a legal spot on the map. But he literally took 0 damage during acid while I'm offhealing my *** off.

 

MikeB

• Can you turn acid on for the entire map? Or ideally, if someone goes "out of bounds," then autokill them.
   
  
• Also, you shouldn't be able to vote kick a dead person. They are not AFK.
  

Edited May 1, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[DzastinBiberi]

There's still wintrading on Darth Malgus in SR, but some ppl took it to another level, making 2 teams for TR late at night when there isnt any team in queue. In one team out of these two teams, one player aways leaves the match, giving free elo to the other.

 

Myself and my guildmate were "victims" of those teams, cause we joined legit for TR, only to found out that "our" tank and healer are leaving on purpose in order to give others free ELO.

 

It hapoened to me 3 times and 2 times to my mate.

 

I was on 3 diff alts those 3 times. First time, our tank said "oh, healer had DC, he"ll be back" and he never came back.

 

2nd time, healer hitted stuck and, free ELO for other team.

 

3rd time, tank left the match after 1st round.

 

After talking with my guildmate who had the same exp with those same ppl, we decided to report them for wintrading.

 

It went on and on nights after that one.

[Bar-Da-Voya]

Throwing/wintrading continues to happen on Satele Shan server. What is Bioware doing for all the characters that have their rating negatively affected by these cheaters? NOTHING. Bans and rating resets are not enough when people are trying to play legitimately only to get their rating screwed by cheaters.

 

Ranked needs to be restructured or removed from the game due to the constant and ongoing abuse of the system as it's not fair to the people who don't cheat to be screwed out of ratings and rewards. You;ve had 11 Seasons of utter & complete failure in this regard. If you can't figure out a fair system that doesn't reward cheaters and punish non-cheaters for playing the game the way it was intended you need to scrap it.

[DavidAtkinson]

I really doubt Bioware can do anything about Wintrading in solo ranked as most of it is set up on discord or other forums and Bioware has no access to those and it's doubtful they would bother to get access undercover just to catch evidence of it....

 

Also typical wintrading is hard to prove as you will get two players in different teams at the same time and one of them is gonna play very poorly and blame his team for his loss.

 

Happened yesterday on Malgus, mara named removed profited by his dear sniper friend who played like crap 2 rounds blaming us for his quick death at the hands of the" best mara in the world" (his own words)... And I found out after from the sniper that they were talking on Discord the whole game and that's why we lost. Nothing more to add here as it was obvious... and devs cannot catch these subtle things.

 

If you look at the leaderboards, again.. same thing. Some people go straight to the top with very few wins while 80% of the server in que struggles to climb or does so very slowly.

 

There are two possibilities here:

 

1. They manage their rating. For example they don't que a lot on their mains to reduce risk of losing lots of points that will be hard to recover later.

 

2. They are super good. THey probably are good players but still they shouldn't escape the reality of the que the majority of the players face. It's hard to climb especially as dps with very random que.

 

3. They have good friends who help them and specific times.

 

A lot from of top spots from Malgus and some people I never saw play.. They weren't queing in prime times at least.

 

Ranked is pointless in it's current form so no point complaining about cheats or unfairness. It has a stupid elo based matchmaking that doesn't work due to low population in que and basically forces people to wintrade to escape the retarded randomness of the que.

 

Furthermore its only arena based which again heavily limits the possibilities of choosing a class as some classes are totally broken(mercs) and we have PT' dps's that are an 80% autoloss for whatever team they get in.

 

We need a new system to rank players, but will we get one ? Never as the majority that are profiting by this current one won't like it...

 

You can see their reactions to suggestions made by players to devs to implement a points system where initial 10 games don't weight as much. THey would never get top spots with 12 -20 wins.

Edited May 2, 2019 by CommunityDroidEN
call-out

[omaan]

During last 4 days one tank is constantly wintrading against his own bot on DM server in solo ranked. He queues with his bot and gets against him having easy wins. Bot is just running into a wall and sometimes uses some defense abilities which makes me think it is working on macros or something like that. Same tank, same bot during 4 days in a row but devs do nothing lol. Despite all tickets which were written by players that guy still continue to farm his bot :mad:

 

In addition to this, when this guy doesn't have a pop against his bot he just declines a pop on bot making a game where bot supposed to be without tank. 4-5 declines = 4-5 ruined games where one team has no tank and the other has one.

Edited May 2, 2019 by omaan