252/258 gear inquiries and changes request

[KendraP]

Well since Musco seems to be ignoring this issue in the feedback thread, but seemingly replying to random topics on (ranked) pvp and new areas of planets, I thought I'd start a request for information on the elephant in the room - gearing.

 

How not soon is not soon to talk about it, Musco? The new gear system frankly sucks.

 

To quote the man himself:

These are good questions, so let me try to address them.

 

1 - This is an intended change. That being said, we know there is definitely some friction from this change and so keep raising your concerns/feedback which I can pass to the team. We have made no secret of the fact that we know we are due for some big itemization changes to address a variety of issues around gearing. Please keep telling us what you would like to see in the future from gearing in SWTOR. We will continue to gather feedback and as we get into the next year, we will have active conversations with you about future gearing plans.

 

Thank you all for your continued feedback. Bigger itemization changes will come and we will definitely talk through them with you when they get here (not soon™). Thanks all.

 

-eric

 

Its been 2 months and I still have the same opinion i had 2 months ago. The new gear in general sucks, and the mod locking in particular is just adding grind for the sake of grind.

 

Maybe Kanneg's raid team fully outfitted with 258 gear can host paid runs for the rest of us?

 

As stated, this gear killed off my desire to continue to participate in your game, and I will not use any of the new gear, and I refuse to run ossus on any more toons lest you be confused I enjoy it.

 

If you insisted on adding new gear, and my assumption above is wrong, why did you not add it to the already existing gear system?

 

Edit: to quote myself

Of course a new MAJOR EXPANSION comes with a new gear tier. It also comes with a new level cap and the last few have had content rescaled to require the new gear. Additionally, because its a MAJOR EXPANSION I expect everything to be reset. Its part and parcel to such expansions.

 

Thus, had they increased the level cap to 75, called it 6.0 instead of 5.10, and either added 3 new gear tiers or gotten rid of the vendors on fleet for the old tier, fine. Its a "MAJOR EXPANSION".

 

But they didn't. They added a grind for the sake of grind to "keep people playing until 6.0." Or at least that seems to be the community consensus on the concept.

 

What we were told was that Mr Kanneg wanted a MM gods, so we were getting a MM gods despite the 0.001% of players that actually still bother doing MM ops. The other 99.999% of us either can not or will not do MM for whatever reason.

 

They had previously stated that HM gods was already scaled to be like MM, and thus no MM would be coming. This made sense considering ravagers and ToS, both of whom end at HM. (And given the number of people who have attempted to lord revanchist around, it apparently means something to someone).

 

Then, upon announcing MM gods, they said new gear would be necessary to complete it. This aspect was something totally in their control. They could have scaled HM down, or made MM harder with mechanics if HM is too close a dps check as it is. Instead, they added gear. How many people have actually been unsuccessful in 248 gear that are successful in 258? I'd bet not many - you either had the skill and group for it before or you still don't now.

 

So adding the gear was stupid because adding a MM version of an already (purposefully) overscaled op was stupid.

 

Furthermore, they already added a gear tier this expansion (248) around the time they also nerfed many/most dps specs to fit their tiers, leading to accusations of nerfing classes just to add gear. So they had already nerfed every endgame activity once (better gear means more dps/hps, which makes dps/hps checks easier in ALL content). Now, they do it again, but no nerfs to dps are forseeable (and if they did there would be an understandable riot), so they nerfed literally every op that is not gods to add MM gods.

 

So now we have another reason adding gear was stupid - it effectively nerfed every other op to add new gear.

 

Then there were the inevitable side effects - pvpers crying over new grind tied to pve of any kind, solo players crying over tying gear to group content, etc. It seems it would have been easier to, if they just had to add MM gods, to make it MM by a combination of nerfing HM back to the level of other HM and adding in mechanics if dps checks were already too tight.

 

So adding new gear was stupid because it added issues that could have been easily averted even if they insisted they had to add MM gods.

 

And now we get to the original point of the thread - this was not listed as a "MAJOR EXAPANSION". Thus, no one should have been expecting an entirely new gearing system in place of one that was already functioning. 5.0 was incredibly unpopular as it originally dropped. After 2 years of fiddling with the system to where it was finally tolerable for the overwhelming majority of players, they throw it out for max tier gear. After taking 2 years to get something working, why drop it like a hot potato? Further, if the insisted on adding gear, why not do so within the system that already existed for this expansion? Yes, it was probably a futless attempt to force players to ossus and gods so we are "enjoying their new content."

 

So adding gear was stupid because it completely threw away a functioning gearing system.

 

And that brings me to my conclusion - in order to avoid Musco counting me as a satisfied customer, I have not and will not participate in the futless new grind. Musco himself could grant me an entire 258 set and I wouldn't use it out of sheer principle.

 

TLDR: 5.10 was not a major expansion, and thus adding new gear was stupid because:

1. Adding MM gods in the first place was stupid

2. Adding new gear with the excuse of it being for MM gods was stupid

3. Nerfing every other op to add gear for mm gods was stupid

4. Creating discontent amongst the player base for minimal advantage in other portions of the player base was stupid

5. Getting rid of a gearing system it took 2 years to get to a tolerable level was stupid.

Edited February 26, 2019 by KendraP

[EricMusco]

Hey folks,

 

Let's talk about gearing as I do have a few things I can pass on. So first and the most important, absolutely keep all feedback coming about gearing in every context. What you do and don't like, what we have done right and what we haven't. Quite literally the team is having conversations right now about how we will build out gearing in "large future update".

 

I do want to state though that there are no large systemic plans changed for 252 / 258. This doesn't mean we may not make minor tweaks but there are no plans to overhaul how gearing works in tier 5. The reason is the team really wants to focus efforts on the future to ensure that when we get to revamping itemization, it is the best it can be.

 

To that point, look for me to start spinning up conversations in the coming weeks regarding gearing. I want to try to gather feedback on specific topics as drilled down as I can to ensure the dev team is getting a good summary of feedback. We are in the early stages of planning for the future of itemization and so now is the best time to help shape what we do.

 

Thanks all.

 

-eric

[Przemo_No]

Hello, I will be quite short with my opinion on that:

 

The RNG gearing system is really BAD. It is actually WORST of them all, because when player does make a effort, runs the required mission (whatever that is) and is being rewarded with useless item or none at all (like in case of CXP crates) the frustration grows high.

 

Why cannot it be that a player does run the mission, obtains some (guaranteed) currency for that mission and buys WHATEVER he wants for that currency?

 

When I go to work, I do whatever is required of me (or more) and I receive an equivalent in currency that I can spend on things I find useful/wanted.

I wonder how many companies would exist should they offer the "RNG based"salaries.

[SPrime]

Hello, I will be quite short with my opinion on that:

 

The RNG gearing system is really BAD. It is actually WORST of them all, because when player does make a effort, runs the required mission (whatever that is) and is being rewarded with useless item or none at all (like in case of CXP crates) the frustration grows high.

 

Why cannot it be that a player does run the mission, obtains some (guaranteed) currency for that mission and buys WHATEVER he wants for that currency?

 

When I go to work, I do whatever is required of me (or more) and I receive an equivalent in currency that I can spend on things I find useful/wanted.

I wonder how many companies would exist should they offer the "RNG based"salaries.

 

Ummm

 

There are 2 quests that give you a Masterwork crystal, that is 1 guaranteed piece of gear you get to select at the vendor. If you also have 1500 unassembled components, that is another guaranteed piece of gear of your choosing.

 

The RNG comes from the boxes that drop from the weekly. But 2 pieces guaranteed is actually pretty good per week.

[Jdast]

Hey folks,

 

Let's talk about gearing as I do have a few things I can pass on. So first and the most important, absolutely keep all feedback coming about gearing in every context. What you do and don't like, what we have done right and what we haven't. Quite literally the team is having conversations right now about how we will build out gearing in "large future update".

 

I do want to state though that there are no large systemic plans changed for 252 / 258. This doesn't mean we may not make minor tweaks but there are no plans to overhaul how gearing works in tier 5. The reason is the team really wants to focus efforts on the future to ensure that when we get to revamping itemization, it is the best it can be.

 

To that point, look for me to start spinning up conversations in the coming weeks regarding gearing. I want to try to gather feedback on specific topics as drilled down as I can to ensure the dev team is getting a good summary of feedback. We are in the early stages of planning for the future of itemization and so now is the best time to help shape what we do.

 

Thanks all.

 

-eric

 

To help frame those discussions, from my perspective, there are two axes / variables to consider:

 

1) How much RNG vs. how much control over what you can get?

 

I'm on record as being a White Knight because I thought 5.6 (Nov. 2017) was the sweet spot. Many of us understand that you need to make money and there will always be some grind.

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with the pace in 5.10, but that's because I have alts who can fuel my mains. The statement I'm about to make goes against self-interest, so I hope it adds some credibility: The current system discriminates against those who only play a few characters or one of each class.

 

So what is my beef?

 

2) How do you acquire the gear?

 

Right now, it's Go Ossus or Go Home. I'm getting Ossified (sorry, couldn't resist ).

 

I've articulated at-length how the current gearing system guts Galactic Command. But you will hear some people say that's a good thing. They are jaundiced by a hatred of the original 5.0 incarnation. My view is that perspectives masks why 5.6 worked. Many people will lump 5 point anything together when the reality is there are stark differences.

 

As of now though, you have built this vast beautiful universe filled with a multitude of quests and planets to explore.

 

The stark reality, however, is that it only makes sense to do Ossus and the MWS quests. The rest of the universe you have created now is a waste of space. You did level synching for a reason -- to keep even old content valued and as fresh as possible. The current gearing system, by gutting 5.6 GC advancement, makes everything but Ossus and the MWS quests irrelevant.

 

Dasty

Edited February 26, 2019 by Jdast

[Syal]

Tier 5 gear is a complete failure !

 

It's simple, bring back this tier 5 gear into the CG system !

 

Increase CXP to 400 and introduce Tier 5 command stash.

Add a vendor on the fleet !

Make 252 intermediate gear !

Make 258 upgrade from 248 !

Give Ossus world boss, op tier 5 gear drop.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Syal

[KendraP]

To help frame those discussions, from my perspective, there are two axes / variables to consider:

 

1) How much RNG vs. how much control over what you can get?

 

I'm on record as being a White Knight because I thought 5.6 (Nov. 2017) was the sweet spot.

2) How do you acquire the gear?

 

Right now, it's Go Ossus or Go Home. I'm getting Ossified (sorry, couldn't resist ).

 

I've articulated at-length how the current gearing system guts Galactic Command. But you will hear some people say that's a good thing. They are jaundiced by a hatred of the original 5.0 incarnation. My view is that perspectives masks why 5.6 worked. Many people will lump 5 point anything together when the reality is there are stark differences.

 

As of now though, you have built this vast beautiful universe filled with a multitude of quests and planets to explore.

 

The stark reality, however, is that it only makes sense to do Ossus and the MWS quests. The rest of the universe you have created now is a waste of space. You did level synching for a reason -- to keep even old content valued and as fresh as possible. The current gearing system, by gutting 5.6 GC advancement, makes everything but Ossus and the MWS quests irrelevant.

 

Dasty

 

I agree with all this, and it is my primary reason for refusing to do ossus more than the one time to experience the story.

 

You're not going to confuse my participation with approval this time, Musco.

 

My request going forward is don't add gear grinds for no reason. Even if Kanneg apparently needs it for his raid team to beat MM gods.

[Christie_Swift]

Hey folks,

 

Let's talk about gearing as I do have a few things I can pass on. So first and the most important, absolutely keep all feedback coming about gearing in every context. What you do and don't like, what we have done right and what we haven't. Quite literally the team is having conversations right now about how we will build out gearing in "large future update".

 

I do want to state though that there are no large systemic plans changed for 252 / 258. This doesn't mean we may not make minor tweaks but there are no plans to overhaul how gearing works in tier 5. The reason is the team really wants to focus efforts on the future to ensure that when we get to revamping itemization, it is the best it can be.

 

To that point, look for me to start spinning up conversations in the coming weeks regarding gearing. I want to try to gather feedback on specific topics as drilled down as I can to ensure the dev team is getting a good summary of feedback. We are in the early stages of planning for the future of itemization and so now is the best time to help shape what we do.

 

Thanks all.

 

-eric

 

Thanks for being open to suggestions. It would be great if people would be more mature in here and rather than just rant or threaten to quit would just come up with constructive feedback.

 

First, I do love playing SWTOR and been doing so since launch. There is no other Star Wars alternative out there and I have had real fun through the years.

 

Gearing is not the end all or do all for me. However, I enjoy and like it as the next guy. I'm not fond of the RNG system at all nor the intense extreme grinding to obtain the best stuff. However, sanity should be somewhere in the middle. Some grinding required is justifiable and understood since nothing is free in life...not even gearing for SWTOR. My only feedback on the subject is to make it more accessible by doing other aspects of SWTOR rather than just OSSUS or ranked PvPs. Yes, the random PvEs quest help a little but shouldn't this be available by other methods...Unranked PvPs, OPs, Flashpoints, World Bosses, etc. Crafting is great but not a common way to get the best gear.

We have way too many currencies already so please do not come up with a new one....just add crystals to many more ways to get it ...NOT just OSSUS. Thanks.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Christie_Swift
spelling

[Sonicphoto]

I actually do find gearing with Ossus easier than gearing any of the previous tiers after 230. It's better to use scraps to buy the crystals than have to individually buy some iokath component on top of tokens and whatnot, that honestly is still confusing for me to do. Where as getting these crystals is far more straightforward. The only thing I'm not a fan of is the smuggler that sells these crystals raises his price after the first purchase and have to wait a week to get another at the 500 scraps, which slows you down if you want to boost up multiple characters. But otherwise, I like gearing on Ossus more than previous tiers and I can just skip the previous tiers and go straight for that tier, instead of going slowly through each, and get my item rating higher faster. It can get repetitive, sure, but that's part of the grind. Just maybe adding some extra missions or other things to freshen up the grind on Ossus would be good.

[SPrime]

Hey folks,

 

Let's talk about gearing as I do have a few things I can pass on. So first and the most important, absolutely keep all feedback coming about gearing in every context. What you do and don't like, what we have done right and what we haven't. Quite literally the team is having conversations right now about how we will build out gearing in "large future update".

 

I do want to state though that there are no large systemic plans changed for 252 / 258. This doesn't mean we may not make minor tweaks but there are no plans to overhaul how gearing works in tier 5. The reason is the team really wants to focus efforts on the future to ensure that when we get to revamping itemization, it is the best it can be.

 

To that point, look for me to start spinning up conversations in the coming weeks regarding gearing. I want to try to gather feedback on specific topics as drilled down as I can to ensure the dev team is getting a good summary of feedback. We are in the early stages of planning for the future of itemization and so now is the best time to help shape what we do.

 

Thanks all.

 

-eric

 

Make all the Masterwork Crystals, and Monumental Shards bound to legacy rather than bound to toon.

[arunav]

My 2 credits:

 

1) For PVE, keep the Galactic Command system as it was up to 248 gear, i.e. functional. After it was fixed with token drops and Unassembled Components, it worked well for PVE. You could play different parts of the endgame, whatever you felt up to, and still make progress. For folks who want to make progress most quickly, specific Operations drops should yield BiS, especially in a 6.0 that hopefully includes an Operation, but Galactic Command drops should still be available to gear up more slowly via crates due to RNG. If 6.0 does not include an Operation, this is all the more reason to keep the pre-Ossus PVE gearing system in place. It allows players a lot more options on how to gear at endgame than running years' old Operations. The Ossus model of forced variety via weekly crystal missions is in no way a substitute for what was good about the revamped Galactic Command system, not to mention how slow and alt-unfriendly it is.

 

2) For PVP, there needs to be some kind of fix to item rating and Galactic Command/Unassemebled Components put in place. Ideally, characters could simply access late 3.x/4.x-like vendors again that sold PVP gear with Expertise and a significantly lower item rating. These vendors would accept WZ comms (or the same currency with a new name) that could be shared across one's Legacy again. Essentially, PVP players would have their own gear again, a system that generally worked great pre-5.x.

 

Lastly, please get rid of most or all of the pop-ups for which side of the Force is ahead in the Dark vs Light system. Perhaps limit it to "wins", which I believe are about once a day. SWTOR still looks great, and the pop-up really takes away from the general aesthetics of the game world, not to mention its inconvenience while playing.

 

This would restore balance to the Force and gearing in SWTOR, and make some grown men cry tears of joy.

Edited February 26, 2019 by arunav

[Resputin]

Hey folks,

 

Let's talk about gearing as I do have a few things I can pass on. So first and the most important, absolutely keep all feedback coming about gearing in every context. What you do and don't like, what we have done right and what we haven't. Quite literally the team is having conversations right now about how we will build out gearing in "large future update".

 

I do want to state though that there are no large systemic plans changed for 252 / 258. This doesn't mean we may not make minor tweaks but there are no plans to overhaul how gearing works in tier 5. The reason is the team really wants to focus efforts on the future to ensure that when we get to revamping itemization, it is the best it can be.

 

To that point, look for me to start spinning up conversations in the coming weeks regarding gearing. I want to try to gather feedback on specific topics as drilled down as I can to ensure the dev team is getting a good summary of feedback. We are in the early stages of planning for the future of itemization and so now is the best time to help shape what we do.

 

Thanks all.

 

-eric

 

The problem I see with the gearing system is you limit your players. You learned nothing from the whole command gearing system that you put out over a year ago only to throw it away. The whole point of command system was you were able to enjoy all aspects of the game and be able to get the highest gear. Now you went backwards by limiting the way players can acquire the new gear.

 

I do like having the new planet be a place to acquire the new gear but you dropped the ball by not adding it to the mix you already had. The best thing about the masterwork shards is you get to buy what piece of gear you want. Take that with adding new command ranks 350 that would drop 252 gear and 400 that would drop 258 gear and it would of been almost perfect. To make it perfect you could of added something for the raiders. You could of had a random weekly operation that if you did it in SM that would drop 252 and if you did it in HM it would drop 258. This would of gave your players multiple ways of gearing up. People still would of ran the ossus mission due to getting masterwork shards to choose what gear they want. Its just they would of kept on playing and not being bored because they have to wait to the next week.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Resputin

[Sonicphoto]

Make all the Masterwork Crystals, and Monumental Shards bound to legacy rather than bound to toon.

 

That's a good point and idea actually.

[Lunafox]

What I like about the system for myself, is that a pleb, solo, story player who considers gearing an added 'something to do' in the game,' can manage to get decent gear by doing the content. Do the missions and you can either get gear from boxes (even though I'd like to see the odds on uppers improved) or save the unassembled pieces and trade them in for gear, or if you're a saver, even BETTER gear.

 

What I hate, is this business of being able to only buy 1 crystal for 500 pieces a week. I think 500 is a fair price and I should be able to buy as many as I wish, if I have the pieces to do it.

 

If the Ops people think it sucks that plebs like me are getting nice things, well, then give them an extra buff or stat on their OPs stuff, so that they're happy.

 

And make the crystals useable over legacy please.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Lunafox

[Przemo_No]

Ummm

 

There are 2 quests that give you a Masterwork crystal, that is 1 guaranteed piece of gear you get to select at the vendor. If you also have 1500 unassembled components, that is another guaranteed piece of gear of your choosing.

 

The RNG comes from the boxes that drop from the weekly. But 2 pieces guaranteed is actually pretty good per week.

 

 

umm, not really. The only quest that gives any guaranteed gear is "Flesh and Steel". Happens once per character.

Rest is just pure RNG.

 

Masterwork Crystals - you kidding, right? HOW MANY TIMES you need to kill those 2 poor bosses on Ossus?

64 times? Fine, if you could do it one after another, endlessly, but there is weekly gate.

 

After 7 years in this game, I am really tired of the treadmill.

 

And, no, I am not talking about upgrading my full 248 characters - those are fine and left intact - I am talking about those who were "RNG dependent" and even on rank 300 they are running in some 236 items.

It is PATHETIC!

 

 

Ok, my idea is this: if I have many lvl 70 charaters, and I have a wish that one of them participates in harder content (whether PVE or PVP_ , it needs to have sufficient gear.

 

The method of gearing implemented during "Valkorions" time has nothing to do with efficiency.

[MandFlurry]

Hello, I will be quite short with my opinion on that:

 

The RNG gearing system is really BAD. It is actually WORST of them all, because when player does make a effort, runs the required mission (whatever that is) and is being rewarded with useless item or none at all (like in case of CXP crates) the frustration grows high.

 

Why cannot it be that a player does run the mission, obtains some (guaranteed) currency for that mission and buys WHATEVER he wants for that currency?

 

When I go to work, I do whatever is required of me (or more) and I receive an equivalent in currency that I can spend on things I find useful/wanted.

I wonder how many companies would exist should they offer the "RNG based"salaries.

 

This stupid Command system has to go, with over 40 alts i have, i only have a few at 300, and I hate the Ossus storyline, so i hate going there, and hate being forced to do any content that i hate with a real passion.

 

The Command system has been hated by most of the fan base i think it's safe to say, since it started in beta form. Like you said when i do work or anyone else we expect to get paid for what we do in cash, not in an RNG system that only gives you other options, but not have the the real cash that we need to buy food and pay our bills.

 

The Command system is a real slap in the face to those of us that do almost all flashpoints except Master mode, and it is then impossible to get top gear, whether we do Pvp and do other PvE content. It is a huge slap in the face to us, when we are paying for a game, not paying Bioware to to give us a game, in how we could play in a game simulation of what a Galaxy wide Governmental shutdown would be like in the Star Wars universe.

 

It was a bad Developer idea, and never should have seen the light of day. In other MMO's and games, we don't have to do 300 levels, plus get crates of mostly junk, though i do like the companion gifts. We also then have to go through hundreds, if not thousand of crates if we have alts of getting nothing but trash, when we should be getting armor that we have earned from various PvE and PvP content,

 

Also, all gear should have their bonuses, not just Purple and Gold gear, it's another slap in the face and spit in the eye when we get gear that have no set bonuses. Why give us trash we don't want??

Edited February 27, 2019 by MandFlurry

[IoNonSoEVero]

I'll try to be succinct: the way gearing is designed for 252/258 makes me think you couldn't care less about solo players.

It's one of the many reasons I have let my subscription lapse and will not be renewing it for the foreseeable future.

 

For the first time in the history of the game, we have no truly viable path to gear without grouping somehow. In order to get 252s without extortionate rates of UC exchange (500 UCs = 55 Tier IV boxes = doing every single weekly for weeks for ONE crystal), we're at the mercy of the weekly's RNG. We also have to bring our toons through 5.10, which has some serious unresolved problems with companions. Not wanting to lose companions that might have had millions of credits invested in them for influence, or are key crafters, is a valid reason not to want to embark on 5.10 aside from any of the many story issues.

 

The fact that you have made gearing so difficult as to be impossible and not worth the effort for solo players is hurtful. Not every player enjoys raids and PvP and up until now, that's been okay. Is it going to be okay in the future, or are you going to continue to try to twist our arms so we'll do something we truly hate doing? If you're going to keep slamming doors to progress in solo players' faces there's no reason for us to be here, and I hope the progression NiM guilds can keep the lights on.

Edited February 27, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero

[Lord_Martheous]

Hey folks,

 

Let's talk about gearing as I do have a few things I can pass on. So first and the most important, absolutely keep all feedback coming about gearing in every context. What you do and don't like, what we have done right and what we haven't. Quite literally the team is having conversations right now about how we will build out gearing in "large future update".

 

I do want to state though that there are no large systemic plans changed for 252 / 258. This doesn't mean we may not make minor tweaks but there are no plans to overhaul how gearing works in tier 5. The reason is the team really wants to focus efforts on the future to ensure that when we get to revamping itemization, it is the best it can be.

 

To that point, look for me to start spinning up conversations in the coming weeks regarding gearing. I want to try to gather feedback on specific topics as drilled down as I can to ensure the dev team is getting a good summary of feedback. We are in the early stages of planning for the future of itemization and so now is the best time to help shape what we do.

 

Thanks all.

 

-eric

 

So, with maybe just some tweaking 252/258 gear, I take that to mean current gearing is working as intended? What is the point of giving feedback on this and other areas of the game when the past track record seems to be that you guys are gonna do whatever you want and to heck with our 'feedback'. I've been around long enough to see enough less than satisfactory updates, past bugs not being addressed, the seemingly endless grind, no longer able to swap mods with other gear, and ignoring PTS recommendations because those recommendations didn't fit whatever agenda the devs want to implement.

 

I rarely post on these forums, and I do try to look at the bright side of things when some updates have glitches or new problems with updates causes some new bugs or unintended consequences, but in this case, I may be a bit jaded about the current state of affairs with the game, but honestly I'm reaching the point of simply not caring anymore...

[MandFlurry]

I'll try to be succinct: the way gearing is designed for 252/258 makes me think you couldn't care less about solo players.

It's one of the many reasons I have let my subscription lapse and will not be renewing it for the foreseeable future.

 

For the first time in the history of the game, we have no truly viable path to gear without grouping somehow. In order to get 252s without extortionate rates of UC exchange (500 UCs = 55 Tier IV boxes = doing every single weekly for weeks for ONE crystal), we're at the mercy of the weekly's RNG. We also have to bring our toons through 5.10, which has some serious unresolved problems with companions. Not wanting to lose companions that might have had millions of credits invested in them for influence, or are key crafters, is a valid reason not to want to embark on 5.10 aside from any of the many story issues.

 

The fact that you have made gearing so difficult as to be impossible and not worth the effort for solo players is hurtful. Not every player enjoys raids and PvP and up until now, that's been okay. Is it going to be okay in the future, or are you going to continue to try to twist our arms so we'll do something we truly hate doing? If you're going to keep slamming doors to progress in solo players' faces there's no reason for us to be here, and I hope the progression NiM guilds can keep the lights on.

 

Yeah, it's just total bs really, because even if we do go to Ossus, which i hate the story line, a lot of the time now people already either have their groups, or Ossus is not as popular as it was. No gearing system should be only attainable by a stupid story line, that a lot of players i know don't like, but only Space-bar through it, so they can get gear

 

The idiocy of having to to at least 50 Warzones for 1 pathetic crystal is a huge slap in the face to customers, and also having to do Ranked in which people don't like that system either. This is a Bloody game, it should be like a game where where a game brings us joy, and happiness, This game Does NOT do that. Hell i can see 10 Warzones for a crystal, not freaking 50, a lot of us have a lot of alts, and this gearing system is very degrading to the human psyche, to i don't see much of a reason to keep subbed, because your Not doing what I or a lot of other Customers want.

 

Also, we should be able to get Crystals for some Veteran Flaspoints as well.

Edited February 27, 2019 by MandFlurry

[IoNonSoEVero]

Yeah, it's just total bs really, because even if we do go to Ossus, which i hate the story line, a lot of the time now people already either have their groups, or Ossus is not as popular as it was. No gearing system should be only attainable by a stupid story line, that a lot of players i know don't like, but only Space-bar through it, so they can get gear

 

The idiocy of having to to at least 50 Warzones for 1 pathetic crystal is a huge slap in the face to customers, and also having to do Ranked in which people don't like that system either. This is a Bloody game, it should be like a game where where a game brings us joy, and happiness, This game Does NOT do that. Hell i can see 10 Warzones for a crystal, not freaking 50, a lot of us have a lot of alts, and this gearing system is very degrading to the human psyche, to i don't see much of a reason to keep subbed, because your Not doing what I or a lot of other Customers want.

 

Also, we should be able to get Crystals for some Veteran Flaspoints as well.

 

Yes. I know there were criticisms of Galactic Command, but I think that it worked pretty well once the items could be dissolved for UCs. The point, though, was that you could earn those command levels playing the game as you enjoyed it. If that was raids, great. PvP, great. Chapters, a-okay. Running around killing random mobs, hey, you do you. You were not boxed into one planet, one set of missions or one specific point in the story.

 

With 252/258 gearing it's no longer about playing the content you like. A game isn't supposed to be a job.

[kukumburr]

I posted a lot about how much I dislike the new gearing system while it was still on PTS and my opinion has not changed at all. In fact while I stay subbed because I want the game to do well I haven't played since around Christmas. Pretty much entirely because I hate the new gear grind so much. It's overly grindy, it's alt-unfriendly, it's convoluted, the world bosses are awful, I just want to do some unranked PvP and then pick up pieces over time without thinking about it too hard.

[TrixxieTriss]

Hey folks,

 

Let's talk about gearing as I do have a few things I can pass on. So first and the most important, absolutely keep all feedback coming about gearing in every context. What you do and don't like, what we have done right and what we haven't. Quite literally the team is having conversations right now about how we will build out gearing in "large future update".

 

I do want to state though that there are no large systemic plans changed for 252 / 258. This doesn't mean we may not make minor tweaks but there are no plans to overhaul how gearing works in tier 5. The reason is the team really wants to focus efforts on the future to ensure that when we get to revamping itemization, it is the best it can be.

 

To that point, look for me to start spinning up conversations in the coming weeks regarding gearing. I want to try to gather feedback on specific topics as drilled down as I can to ensure the dev team is getting a good summary of feedback. We are in the early stages of planning for the future of itemization and so now is the best time to help shape what we do.

 

Thanks all.

 

-eric

 

I think one important thing that most of us would like to know is : what was your intent with locking the mods, enhancements, barrels and hilts to specific slots?

This was a complete departure from how we have previously geared and has add a whole sway of problems for people who like to min max their gear for their specific game content, play style, class and also class specs.

Being able to min max has always been enjoyable and adds another layer to the game. Removing it actually removed some more fun from the game and has made it more dull (generic) or added many more months to the tedious grind (for those who will be bothered).

 

Some things I would like to see changed “tweaked” regarding gear for tier 5.

1. Unlock the gear defined slots. If this isn’t possible, can you please add a vendor that sells ALL the previous type of individual mods and enhancements. ie Adapt A, B mods etc.

They need to not be too expensive with regards to grinding gear currency. Better yet, you should be able to exchange the current ones in the gear with command Comms and there should be NO credit costs for removing them from the gear when exchanging them.

 

2. Please ease up on the gear grind (it’s too much for a stack of people), Please make command Comms useful in obtaining this gear quicker or from other sources outside of Ossus.

You are actually ruining Ossus because it becomes excessively boring running exactly the same content, over and over to gear up.

Ossus is actually a really good area and idea, but the grind has and is ruining it for me, my wife and my remaining friends. When you are “forced” to play / grind one thing to death, you end up hating that area forever.

 

Moving forward with future gear systems.

 

Bring PvP gear back - We need seperate pvp gear back in the game because a single gear solution is not working for many of us and causing constant problems for different parts of the player base.

* When you make it easier for pvpers to get gear, it affects the raiders who like progression gearing.

* When you make it too hard for pvpers to get gear, it discourages people playing pvp because they don’t like gear gaps or grinding gear outside of pvp.

The best solution I can think of is having two ways to gear, like we use to.

 

For pvp we need to be able to gear up relatively fast compared to progression raiding and pve. The old pvp gearing system was perfect for pvpers.

1. It allowed us to collect pvp Comms in any form of pvp as we lvl’d up. This encouraged people to try and play pvp as they lvld. It was another pathway to lvl 65 (max lvl at the time) and was especially good for people who’ve played the vanilla story to death.

This also helped people get ready for end game pvp because they learnt in a less stressful environment, they had less abilities to contend with and could better learn the ones they have. They could learn how the maps work and some tactics and strategies. The flow on affect was better end game quality and more FUN for everyone in all formats of pvp.

You would also be inadvertently “adding” back more content for people to play. Which is a win - win for everyone as you want people to play longer and we want more things to do and have fun.

 

2. Make the pvp gearing Alt friendly. Having the old system was perfect in 4.3 because you allowed us to collect those Comms and convert them to legacy tokens to send to other characters. This meant that you could play one class to affectively gear up another.

Being able to play all your Alts in pvp (in my case 31) and have them gearing at the same rate and not need legacy gear is more fun and relaxing. It also adds more defacto content to the game for pvpers because we will play ALL our Alts more to gear them. We also get the “change of scenery” when we swap to an Alt. Which is also defacto content for pvpers.

Once again, this is a win - win for everyone because you’ve inadvertently added more content for pvpers to do and it takes little to no effort for you guys to do.

 

3. Pvp gearing needs to be fast and have small gear gaps from top to bottom gear. We don’t need multiple sets of gear as we lvl it up. We just need 2 gear lvls. Regs gear and ranked gear and they should be no more than 4 gear numbers apart. Like we had on the old pvp gear. Ie 204 was regs and 208 was ranked.

 

4. We also need a pvp mods and enhancement vendor to go along with the pvp gear. This allows us ways to play around with stats and min max. Many of us would experiment with different builds and even have a few pvp sets per Alt (once we’d geared up what we wanted). This also gave us something to do and an additional FUN factor.

Once again, this is a win - win for everyone because you’ve inadvertently added more content for pvpers to do and we will play longer.

 

5. Pvp gear should only be obtainable in pvp, the same as pve gear should only be obtainable in pve.

 

There are so many benefits from having pvp gear seperate (especially if you can work towards it as you lvl in lowbies). You add more content and give us more to do in the game, you add more fun back into the game, you reinvigorate lowbie pvp, you increase player skills for end game pvp and you give us back a path for lvling up new characters to max lvl for end game.

 

Many pvpers and I would go as far as saying most pvpers want a more skill vs skill experience in pvp over a gear vs gear experience.

We get that you want to keep some gear progression and I’m not against that because some people do enjoy it and it’s fun when it’s fast and the difference between top gear and bottom gear is relatively small. But no one likes big gear gaps and losing to people “only” because they had better gear, not because they were better skilled. It is NO FUN when you are losing or even winning because gear is the main factor.

 

Since 5.0, there has been a constant drain on the “FUN” factor in pvp, I would like to see that fun return and it would 100% make me play more and for longer.

Playing Pvp is fun, the grind is not fun. Especially if you are forced to grind pve just so you can gear to play pvp. That is definitely not fun.

Pvp content is playing actual pvp. We don’t constantly need new maps to get new content. Our content is playing the same maps against different people all the time. Our combat isn’t pve scripted mobs, so no two matches are the same and hence we get a form of new content every match.

What we do need is no gear gap, low gear grind, seperate pvp gear and incentives for people to play all lvls and formats of pvp. (There are other things too like class balance, better matchmaking, etc, but this thread is about gearing, so I’ll leave it there).

 

The best and easiest thing I think you guys could do would be to bring back the old 4.3 gearing system with no changes on how it worked. It was perfect in my opinion and should never have been changed.

Edited February 27, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

I agree with all this, and it is my primary reason for refusing to do ossus more than the one time to experience the story.

 

You're not going to confuse my participation with approval this time, Musco.

 

My request going forward is don't add gear grinds for no reason. Even if Kanneg apparently needs it for his raid team to beat MM gods.

 

This is how I feel too.

[MorseGod]

Here are my thoughts on gearing, in general, because I don't have much experience with the new Ossus grind.

 

Moving Goalposts

The gear grind never stops. I have 8 characters, which is a small number compared to most subscribers, as far as I can tell. Only 3 of them have a complete set of 248 gear, and only 2 of those have custom builds, which were obsolete by the time I obtained all the right mods and enhancements.

 

I understand that every few patches you guys have to inject new gear that renders the other stuff obsolete in order to keep the endgame crowd happy, but people should be able to realistically get full sets of the good stuff before the next thing releases.

 

Random Nonsense Generator

Galactic Command crates have the advantage that I can earn them for doing ANY content that I enjoy, but the drop rate for legendary 248 gear is too low, and when you need specific pieces (devices, packages, mods, enhancements), it can take hundreds of crates to finally get the piece you need. Furthermore, my DPS toons get mod and enhancement drops that would be useful for my tanks, but everything is BoP, so my only option is to disintegrate them for more CXP in hopes that the next box will give me something I can actually use.

 

I've gathered a few of the 252 pieces doing the Ossus solo weekly stuff. It's nice that I can choose a box that limits the drops to upper, lower, or accessories, but I have a feeling that when it comes to devices and packages, the same problem will occur: lots of pieces that I neither need nor want. This frustration is exacerbated by the extremely limited amount of content I can do to even get them in the first place.

 

Min / Maxing

Based on what I've read here in the forums, I gather that min / maxing is essential if you ever want to be competitive in PvP or particularly useful in ops. It looks like there are folks who are constantly parsing and re-parsing on training dummies to find the optimal balance of stats. The vast majority of the playerbase probably can't keep up with the changes, though, and any time the min / max meta changes, our build is obsolete again.

 

Suggestions

1. Add new tiers of gear to the existing Galactic Command crate system

2. Increase the drop rate (even slightly) of BiS gear in GC crates

3. Ensure GC crates only provide BoP items that are useful to the character opening the crate

[annabethchase]

Do not put gear on any kind of weekly treadmill. That means don't lock it behind an operations, weekly boss or weekly quest. Don't lock it behind a crystal or crafting component you can only get weekly. Anything that requires months of grinding is not going to work in 2019 with so many other entertainment options available.

 

However, it does feel like time to introduce a legendary weapon system to SWTOR. One of the core themes of SW is the hero's personal weapon that has deep meaning to them. You see them acquire the weapon, learn to use it and by the end of the character arc it's a legendary item with deep meaning. Why not put in a system where we choose a weapon to make "legendary" which inherits our existing CXP levels which are rebranded as command xp over our weapon. Then let us customize the powers of our weapons in ways that matter most to the player. This would be the personal equivalent to the recently implemented guild perks. The CXP we earn would never be capped, but we could only slot say 5 perks per day. We could unlock them all with CXP if we played enough, but wouldn't allow anyone to be overwhelmingly powerful due to the usage cap.

 

So in summary, easy to obtain gear but with an endless growth option on our weapons.