The constant mentioning of Autism in PVP

[bluehufsa]

You don’t see it in professional sports or eSports and they are highly competitive. If they can have rules or restrain themselves, then it’s not to much to ask for people to behave like human beings and not rampaging Neanderthals with no language skills to express themselves.

 

I love to watch MotoGP, a highly competitive professional sport. It is not free of incidents ( Mattia Pasini throwing a temper tantrum, Romano Fenatti sabotaging a rival during the race, Marc Marquez lashing out at Jack Miller over a joke) . Stil , as you pointed out,they restrain themselves & follow rules. If they can , why can't we?

[Rafiknoll]

No one is mocking someone because they're/ their son is autistic.

 

You probably missed the post that was removed from this very thread that did just that (and got moderated out in about 1h). I am not saying everyone in the game already crossed that thick line of basic dignity but it already happened to some and will happen to more.

 

But due to this swift reaction on the forums, it suddenly occurred to me that if reporting spam/harassment on such people would cause even a temporary ban swiftly, it would fix such problems though. Unlike trolls, hackers and credit spammers who just log another account, the worst toxic players are still being toxic via PVP, which means they want to PVP, which means they would very much like their account on which they PVP NOT getting suspended, and will have to restrain themselves when they "suffer" the presence of a noob unless they wish to suffer worse from inability to play at all.

 

Wish the response time of in-game complaints would be as swift as it is here on the forums...

[Totemdancer]

Wish the response time of in-game complaints would be as swift as it is here on the forums...

 

Response time on the forums 1 hour (which is good)

Response time in the game 1 month (slight exaggerated or is it?)

 

(These should be switched, lol)

Edited November 16, 2018 by Totemdancer

[Rafiknoll]

Response time on the forums 1 hour (which is good)

Response time in the game 1 month (slight exaggerated or is it?)

 

(These should be switched, lol)

 

Switching them would be disastrous too. At least in game, when someone posts a "youtube" link which is meant to steal your IP or SWTOR account information, it is not clickable

 

The response time to tickets is actually only a few days, mostly. The actual act is what takes months (if at all). Maybe only one agent is capable of banning someone in the game and all the others have to wait for him to receive their reports, and they file reports every... year?

[Mournblood]

I tried to break it down earlier about how internet anonymity displaces social inhibitions, but honestly, the reasons for toxicity in internet games really doesn't matter. What it comes down to is this: if it's not something you would say to someone's face because if you did you'd likely be drinking your meals through a straw, then it's inappropriate here too, and just because you're not standing right in front of the person doesn't somehow make it ok to spew all manner of vitriol and forget you're playing with other human beings. I'm not saying that people don't have a right to communicate their frustration with someone else who is wasting their time, which happens a lot in MMOs, but there are proper ways to express that, and then there is toxicity.

 

Now for the rant.

 

Unfortunately, most of the people who are guilty of this aren't reading the forums, and even if they are, they are going to point the finger at everyone else. It's your fault for being insulted by my derisive and denigrating comments, right? Or one of my personal favorites, "I don't care because there's nothing you can do about it" when I confronted a player for joking about r-aping women, as if forcing yourself on someone and traumatizing them for life was a punchline at a comedy café. When I threatened to report him, he just laughed and told me that's what alt accounts are for. And you know what? He's right. If he's a truly determined troll, it's not too difficult to stay one or even two steps ahead of the ToS enforcement process. Although that may be an extreme example, it happens all too frequently in this game (and others). Yet it still begs the question, why is it my problem that I have to deal with sociopaths in a video game that I'm playing for its entertainment value? I don't recall reading anything in the EULA that stated, "Thou shalt suck it up, buttercup." And spare me the 'use the Ignore' trite. It's not Legacy wide in either direction, and therefore easily circumvented.

 

Thankfully, the majority of toxicity comes from players who are just terminally immature, but they aren't going to have some sort of epiphany and miraculously grow up. The only way this culture of internet anonymity is going to correct itself is with some good old-fashioned in-game moderation. When the consequences for toxicity and trolling are swift and certain, that's when you'll start to see it go away. Not this laughable reporting mechanism that can literally take months to prosecute someone's account, assuming a player is willing to take the time to submit the report(s) in the first place. And I'd argue that there's a lot that goes unreported. How many players don't even bother with it because it's not transparent and is perceived as pointless effort (or too much effort)? The point is, I've seen in-game moderation work in the past, and I've seen what happens in too many MMOs now when it's absent, this one being no exception. Until game developers are willing to acknowledge their responsibility again to more actively police their own games, the problem of toxicity will only continue to grow like weeds in an untended yard.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Mournblood

[merovejec]

What it comes down to is this: if it's not something you would say to someone's face because if you did you'd likely be drinking your meals through a straw

 

This is my big issue. I was growing up when the situation was bad in my city and we had it hard on the streets with small gangs fighting over stuff. So I had fights on daily basis sometimes. I was used to sort things not with talking but with my hands.

 

Here however, a person mocks me and even though in RL that person would end up in a hospital (at best), I cannot do a thing about it. He can just keep on trolling (swapping toons when ignored) you over and over if he really wants to. So my "experience" in handling such things is irrelevant.

 

The only way this culture of internet anonymity is going to correct itself is with some good old-fashioned in-game moderation. When the consequences for toxicity and trolling are swift and certain, that's when you'll start to see it go away. Not this laughable reporting mechanism that can literally take months to prosecute someone's account, assuming a player is willing to take the time to submit the report(s) in the first place. And I'd argue that there's a lot that goes unreported. How many players don't even bother with it because it's not transparent and is perceived as pointless effort (or too much effort)?

 

Exactly this!

 

I offered my help many times, I would do it for free and would be fair, just do some more in game moderation.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

You probably missed the post that was removed from this very thread that did just that (and got moderated out in about 1h). I am not saying everyone in the game already crossed that thick line of basic dignity but it already happened to some and will happen to more.

 

But due to this swift reaction on the forums, it suddenly occurred to me that if reporting spam/harassment on such people would cause even a temporary ban swiftly, it would fix such problems though. Unlike trolls, hackers and credit spammers who just log another account, the worst toxic players are still being toxic via PVP, which means they want to PVP, which means they would very much like their account on which they PVP NOT getting suspended, and will have to restrain themselves when they "suffer" the presence of a noob unless they wish to suffer worse from inability to play at alll.

 

I can confirm the in-game bans, they do do it sometimes. I can also confirm that they totally suck a**.

3 days bans are annoying but it's doable, the 7 day week long bans are killer though.

 

They probably don't give in game bans often and I think most people don't really think that can happen, and that they probably just use the prospect as a scare tactic to keep bad little girls and boys in line while lacking in credibility. But they'd be a fool to believe it.

 

They do use them. They do do it sometimes.

 

In game bans, aren't only in game. If you get banned on the forums you can still play the game, totally unaffected, But when your banned in game that ban also applies to the forums and lasts as long as your in game ban. You're totally cut off. You can't mail anyone, you can't contact anyone, you can't speak to anyone.

 

Reddit SWTOR forums can help at those times. At least it's something and ya don't feel as cut off . In fact there are many forum users here than also are on Reddit. If you are a PVPer you'll know some of them from here [PVP section].

Joking aside, it really does suck. You read all the discussions going on and ya keep on starting a reply on instinct at first and than realize you can't heh .

 

Best to avoid the whole in-game ban thing tho if possible.

Edited November 16, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Severith]

I think maybe people don’t understand the what the meaning of toxic is and sledging/banter.

You can also call someone an idiot for not calling out incs and it not be toxic. It becomes toxic when you start referring to that person in derogatory terms like autistic.

 

 

The word idiot began as a medical and legal term for someone with mental handicaps and learning disabilities, as well as specific other types of idiocy to describe various neurological disorders (many of which are eventually lethal to children). It's the predecessor for the "R" word, and in many cases meant almost exactly the same thing.

 

I'll defend your right to use the word idiot though. Why? Because, from my subjective conceptions and perceptions, it's not a bad word anymore. But that's just my opinion. Other people are going to get triggered by it.

 

You can claim that there is some absolute, dividing line between toxicity and calling people names. But one man's constructive (yet pointedly rude) criticism is another man's version of toxicity. It's all subjective, and it's all based on what individual people choose to get triggered over. Whatever dividing line you impose is irrelevant to everyone else.

 

So I call all of it toxicity. I simply evaluate, situation by situation, to see if the toxicity was merited to the extent and degree in which it was dealt. The right amount of toxicity, in the right place, can kill cancer.

 

As for autism specifically, I hold with those who treat autism as a different mental state of being, rather than a disorder. I'm actually less offended when someone uses it as a slur as I am when someone white knights and tries to protect the autistic community as if they could only be victims. It's these white knights that empower the the use of the word as a slur, by making it "Not Okay" to use. It's not just me, there is a huge portion of the autistic community that feels the same way. Google neurodiversity if you're interested in knowing more about it.

 

Those people would be pretty offended to hear that you think being referred to as autistic is inherently derogatory. They'll probably appreciate your intentions, but they'll straight up tell you that their neurological differences play a huge part in how they see and conduct themselves as individual human beings. It's a part of who they are.

 

I don't think you're a bad person, and I'm not trying to paint you that way, and I agree with you on a lot of points. Yet what needs to be understood, is that simply paying lip service to inclusivity culture and political correctness actually leads to intolerance of freedom of thought, which is the root of actual, tangible diversity.

[bluehufsa]

As for autism specifically, I hold with those who treat autism as a different mental state of being, rather than a disorder. I'm actually less offended when someone uses it as a slur as I am when someone white knights and tries to protect the autistic community as if they could only be victims. It's these white knights that empower the the use of the word as a slur, by making it "Not Okay" to use.

 

"As if they only could be victims". Tell that to the OP, a person who goes home every day and won't hear his son say " i love you". Put yourself in his place, please !

[Rion_Starkiller]

You guys fell really hard for OP's troll. I'm amused.

[Stellarcrusade]

I'm sorry about your son. Most people are nice/friendly and will not try to insult others. That being said, it is just speech. Either ignore it, find something to insult back, or remember the person's name and take satisfaction next time you beat him on the battlefield (as typically reactionary name-calling people suck he should be an easy kill). Everyone gets their feelings hurt, develop a thicker skin and just set a good example in your own dealings is the best advise.

[Totemdancer]

The word idiot began as a medical and legal term for someone with mental handicaps and learning disabilities, as well as specific other types of idiocy to describe various neurological disorders (many of which are eventually lethal to children). It's the predecessor for the "R" word, and in many cases meant almost exactly the same thing.

 

I'll defend your right to use the word idiot though. Why? Because, from my subjective conceptions and perceptions, it's not a bad word anymore. But that's just my opinion. Other people are going to get triggered by it.

 

You can claim that there is some absolute, dividing line between toxicity and calling people names. But one man's constructive (yet pointedly rude) criticism is another man's version of toxicity. It's all subjective, and it's all based on what individual people choose to get triggered over. Whatever dividing line you impose is irrelevant to everyone else.

 

So I call all of it toxicity. I simply evaluate, situation by situation, to see if the toxicity was merited to the extent and degree in which it was dealt. The right amount of toxicity, in the right place, can kill cancer.

 

As for autism specifically, I hold with those who treat autism as a different mental state of being, rather than a disorder. I'm actually less offended when someone uses it as a slur as I am when someone white knights and tries to protect the autistic community as if they could only be victims. It's these white knights that empower the the use of the word as a slur, by making it "Not Okay" to use. It's not just me, there is a huge portion of the autistic community that feels the same way. Google neurodiversity if you're interested in knowing more about it.

 

Those people would be pretty offended to hear that you think being referred to as autistic is inherently derogatory. They'll probably appreciate your intentions, but they'll straight up tell you that their neurological differences play a huge part in how they see and conduct themselves as individual human beings. It's a part of who they are.

 

I don't think you're a bad person, and I'm not trying to paint you that way, and I agree with you on a lot of points. Yet what needs to be understood, is that simply paying lip service to inclusivity culture and political correctness actually leads to intolerance of freedom of thought, which is the root of actual, tangible diversity.

 

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Actually there isnt much I didn’t agree on.

Thanks for the tip about the term idiot, I didn’t actually realise where it was derived from. I’ve always used or thought of it as someone doing something dumb. Maybe it’s become so main stream that we don’t think anything of it because it’s used a lot in Australia.

 

My R word and your R word references were different though, It wasn’t till I read this post that I realised you meant the reference to mental state (it’s not a word I use). Where as mine was in reference to a se***l assault. People don’t realise just how offensive that is to women when describing what they are going to do to the other team or what’s just happened to them.

 

There is also polical correctness and just common decency. I think polical correctness is often out of control, but I also think that reasoning can be used as an excuse when people want to be toxic. (I won’t say more because that borders on a polical discussion and they are a no, no on the forums).

 

I can identify with people people who have to deal with neurological differences. I’ve my challenges around who I am and how I’ve had to incorporate them into who I am and how I conduct myself (I won’t go into details on a public forum). I sometimes find it sad (not so much offensive) when people think the terminology or language around my circumstances is derogatory, but most dont understand. But there is a difference on how language how is used, by who and in what context. I still think the way Austism is referred to in this game is derogatory because of the context, not because someone might actually be autisic or on the spectrum.

 

Definitions and intent play a big role in toxic behaviour and there is a difference.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Totemdancer

[Totemdancer]

You guys fell really hard for OP's troll. I'm amused.

 

Why would you suggest it’s a troll attempt?

[Severith]

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Actually there isnt much I didn’t agree on.

Thanks for the tip about the term idiot, I didn’t actually realise where it was derived from. I’ve always used or thought of it as someone doing something dumb. Maybe it’s become so main stream that we don’t think anything of it because it’s used a lot in Australia.

 

My R word and your R word references were different though, It wasn’t till I read this post that I realised you meant the reference to mental state (it’s not a word I use). Where as mine was in reference to a se***l assault. People don’t realise just how offensive that is to women when describing what they are going to do to the other team or what’s just happened to them.

 

There is also polical correctness and just common decency. I think polical correctness is often out of control, but I also think that reasoning can be used as an excuse when people want to be toxic. (I won’t say more because that borders on a polical discussion and they are a no, no on the forums).

 

I can identify with people people who have to deal with neurological differences. I’ve my challenges around who I am and how I’ve had to incorporate them into who I am and how I conduct myself (I won’t go into details on a public forum). I sometimes find it sad (not so much offensive) when people think the terminology or language around my circumstances is derogatory, but most dont understand. But there is a difference on how language how is used, by who and in what context. I still think the way Austism is referred to in this game is derogatory because of the context, not because someone might actually be autisic or on the spectrum.

 

Definitions and intent play a big role in toxic behaviour and there is a difference.

 

I think we agree on about 90% of stuff too.

 

My point about the word idiot was to illustrate how subjective the practical (in use) definition of words, and intent of words actually are, especially when communicating with someone when not face to face. Being called an idiot with someone who's got a playful smirk on their face is not the same as being called an idiot when they've got a closed posture and narrowed eyes.

 

The extreme behaviors are easy to define and judge, but from my perspective there is a vast and murky middle ground in which constructive criticism and toxicity coexist, because there are too many variables that are impossible to be verified such as; definitions, intent, and how something is received. That's why I'm against too much moderation and censorship in pvp. To the fragile snowflakes of the world, every intent is vile, every definition is the worst possible version, and they get to pick and choose to which degree how much of a victim they are when they receive it.

 

I think we're just going to have to disagree on this point. Definitions and intents, from my perspective, are subjective. The lines that people draw in the sand are always going to be in different spots. That's why I think the area on the beach to play in should be really big.

[EmanoWanga]

You guys fell really hard for OP's troll. I'm amused.

 

I suppose you are one of "those people"

[Mannok]

Across 3 servers across 8 Characters with 500+ hours played each I never heard the word "Autism"mentioned once.

 

GL HF m8 - that is 4k hours played without ever hearing "Autism" mentioned once and I am and play mostly with toxic players...I am sure that "Autism" is a major issue that needs a seperate post... (sarcasm).

 

LOL... I am a teacher IRL and this is focking ridiciulous

 

 

seriously fock PC culture... if this is the outcome.

[Rafiknoll]

Across 3 servers across 8 Characters with 500+ hours played each I never heard the word "Autism"mentioned once.

 

GL HF m8 - that is 4k hours played without ever hearing "Autism" mentioned once and I am and play mostly with toxic players...I am sure that "Autism" is a major issue that needs a seperate post... (sarcasm).

 

LOL... I am a teacher IRL and this is focking ridiciulous

 

 

seriously fock PC culture... if this is the outcome.

 

Excuse me for the question, but what kind of teacher or any educational figure (who gets to interact with children often) inserts the word "focking" so casually in his sentences?

 

Anyway, even if you played more than any other player, you still don't own even 0.1% of the accumulated total time played by all players, so the fact that you didn't see a thing doesn't prove it doesn't happen. My personal experience of toxicity (not only those directed at me, anything I got to see in any chat ever) includes autism, down syndrome, most reproductive organs or actions of both genders, apartheid, and anti-semitism, and all of the above could always end with some form of "go and die IRL", and this is mostly only regs. I will admit some of them are very rare and specifically, I only saw a single mention of anti-semitism and two mentions of autism that I can currently recall in my entire gaming time, but it DOES exist, it IS unacceptable, and this unacceptability SHOULD be voiced. I honestly can't believe and educational figure dismissed it...

[Mournblood]

Excuse me for the question, but what kind of teacher or any educational figure (who gets to interact with children often) inserts the word "focking" so casually in his sentences?

 

He didn't say what he teaches, or to whom. For all we know, he could teach uneducated prison inmates how to read and write. Though I somehow doubt that given he couldn't even spell "ridiculous" right.

 

this is focking ridiciulous

Edited November 18, 2018 by Mournblood

[Mournblood]

*deleted double post* Edited November 18, 2018 by Mournblood

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Across 3 servers across 8 Characters with 500+ hours played each I never heard the word "Autism"mentioned once.

 

GL HF m8 - that is 4k hours played without ever hearing "Autism" mentioned once and I am and play mostly with toxic players...I am sure that "Autism" is a major issue that needs a seperate post... (sarcasm).

 

LOL... I am a teacher IRL and this is focking ridiciulous

 

 

seriously fock PC culture... if this is the outcome.

 

I'm not sure if it's really my place to point this out because you are a teacher and I can barely spell my own name without a spell check but, I think it's spelled fuc and than a k, not fock.

 

While I would normally assume most people's spelling is better than my own by default, when it comes to 4 letter words I'm something of a Shakespeare and I think my 37 infractions should speak to my expertise on the subject.

 

Plus if you tell someone F.U. from even just those two letters alone, they already know that your spelling a 4 letter word, which is a time saver really, by half, it spares you the time of the C and The K.

 

Feel free to use that example with your students. I have a ton more 4 letter word colloquialisms like that if your interested.

 

For what it's worth, 4 letter words than start with an F are, in fact, my favorite 4 letter words of all and the always have been.

Edited November 18, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Mannok]

Just a quick follow up. Yes I spelled ridiculous wrong good one and no I am not a native english speaker and please keep offending me (and other people that misspell a word here and there) about it. I am really offended now (joke).

 

I am not dismissing that the alleged (saying alleged is a joke) mentioning of autism isn't offensive. But, as Rafi mentioned just above, it is by far among the really offensive things being said.

 

I think that the context of insults should be that of a football match. No one get offended when people call fat people fat bastards or fat swines and people in general being called Sons of *****es or Medical Malpractice.

 

isn't it just banter? I do not know.. science says that people who swear are more honest

 

 

Using "O" in the F and C word is just a habit as most games, including this one, filters out **** and ****.

 

 

Maybe devs should just make a /report bad behavior in-game and deal 7-day bans to players that keep insulting after being warned. Good day.

[bluehufsa]

and I think my 37 infractions should speak to my expertise on the subject

 

Only 37 ?? I outrank you by far! I have 37 pages of infractions :D:D

[AlrikFassbauer]

Let’s be honest here: if you’re easily offended then the internet is not for you.

 

That’s just the way it is now.

 

If you can’t ignore it then you’ll have to go on your way.

 

When "the internet" was something limited to universities, it was rather a transport medium to exchange knowledge, not what it is now.

 

So, things must have changed since then.

 

On the other hand, puberty behaviour never changes ...

There are already guild advertisements out there in the chat, demanding that someone who wants to join that guild must not perform "puberty behaviour" ...

[Mournblood]

I am not dismissing that the alleged (saying alleged is a joke) mentioning of autism isn't offensive. But, as Rafi mentioned just above, it is by far among the really offensive things being said.

 

But you did dismiss it as political correctness.

 

I am sure that "Autism" is a major issue that needs a seperate post... (sarcasm).

 

LOL... I am a teacher IRL and this is focking ridiciulous

 

seriously fock PC culture... if this is the outcome.

 

And for the record, toxicity in online video gaming is not even remotely in the same realm as the over-saturation of PC culture. The societal ills of PC culture apply to concepts such as, everyone is a winner and there are no losers, which is a poor life lesson. Not hate speech, or derogatory comments based on sex, race, ethnicity, religion, etc. with the intent of offending someone. The latter was deemed unacceptable long before being PC was ever a thing.

 

I think that the context of insults should be that of a football match. No one get offended when people call fat people fat bastards or fat swines and people in general being called Sons of *****es or Medical Malpractice.

 

isn't it just banter? I do not know.. science says that people who swear are more honest

 

Being vulgar is not necessarily the same thing as being toxic. You can use profanity in everyday speech without it being directed at anyone or offending someone. But none of that is what's being discussed here in this thread. What's being discussed here is toxicity - which is loosely defined as the malicious intent by players to be as offensive as possible to another player or group of players. Using autism as an insult is merely the latest example of this. I also provided a couple of very poignant examples of toxicity in prior posts in this thread.

 

But we've beat this horse to death at this point. In the end, what's considered toxic in this game is defined in the Terms of Service - Rules of Conduct - Harassment policy below. It's not subject to your opinion or interpretation, or mine. I've bolded and italicized the relevant parts to this discussion:

 

Harassment Policy

Our goal is to build a strong community that offers a comfortable atmosphere for all of our players. This means seeing that players have the ability to combat antisocial behavior

Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." Reported incidents are not considered harassment until it is determined by the SWTOR CS that it was done to intentionally to cause distress or to offend other players.

Harassment is also any behavior that is incessant, inescapable, derogatory and directed specifically at you or your group. Before reporting, a genuine attempt to alleviate the situation should be made by leaving the area or the offending player, or asking them politely to stop. If a sincere attempt has been made to solve the problem and the offending player persists in the behavior, it should be reported.

Behavior that is always considered harassment includes derogatory and/or hateful comments that are sexual, racist, religious, or related to gender or creed.

A judgment of valid harassment can result in penalties placed on the harassing party up to and including immediate account closure, based on the severity of harassment and the player's past account history.

Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy.

 

The only contention here is that the in-game mechanisms for combatting antisocial behavior are woefully inadequate, and that toxicity in this game (and others) has consequently become far too rampant.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Mournblood

[Severith]

But you did dismiss it as political correctness.

 

 

 

And for the record, toxicity in online video gaming is not even remotely in the same realm as the over-saturation of PC culture. The societal ills of PC culture apply to concepts such as, everyone is a winner and there are no losers, which is a poor life lesson. Not hate speech, or derogatory comments based on sex, race, ethnicity, religion, etc. with the intent of offending someone. The latter was deemed unacceptable long before being PC was ever a thing.

 

 

 

Being vulgar is not necessarily the same thing as being toxic. You can use profanity in everyday speech without it being directed at anyone or offending someone. But none of that is what's being discussed here in this thread. What's being discussed here is toxicity - which is loosely defined as the malicious intent by players to be as offensive as possible to another player or group of players. Using autism as an insult is merely the latest example of this. I also provided a couple of very poignant examples of toxicity in prior posts in this thread.

 

But we've beat this horse to death at this point. In the end, what's considered toxic in this game is defined in the Terms of Service - Rules of Conduct - Harassment policy below. It's not subject to your opinion or interpretation, or mine. I've bolded and italicized the relevant parts to this discussion:

 

Harassment Policy

Our goal is to build a strong community that offers a comfortable atmosphere for all of our players. This means seeing that players have the ability to combat antisocial behavior

Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." Reported incidents are not considered harassment until it is determined by the SWTOR CS that it was done to intentionally to cause distress or to offend other players.

Harassment is also any behavior that is incessant, inescapable, derogatory and directed specifically at you or your group. Before reporting, a genuine attempt to alleviate the situation should be made by leaving the area or the offending player, or asking them politely to stop. If a sincere attempt has been made to solve the problem and the offending player persists in the behavior, it should be reported.

Behavior that is always considered harassment includes derogatory and/or hateful comments that are sexual, racist, religious, or related to gender or creed.

A judgment of valid harassment can result in penalties placed on the harassing party up to and including immediate account closure, based on the severity of harassment and the player's past account history.

Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy.

 

The only contention here is that the in-game mechanisms for combatting antisocial behavior are woefully inadequate, and that toxicity in this game (and others) has consequently become far too rampant.

 

Mourne, not once in the harassment policy is the word "Toxic" or "Toxicity" mentioned. You've only proven that your definition of toxicity is the one that matches the harassment policy.

 

So lets look at the policy and apply it to pvp: Verbally telling someone "You suck" violates the harassment policy, since it's supposed intent is to distress and offend someone.

 

But they don't want you to report it. They want you to tell them to "Stop it" and then for you to leave the area "warzone". They further go on to state that "incidents" are not harassment unless CS thinks it's harassment.

 

Nothing was defined by the harassment policy. You're basing what you think "toxicity" is on a vaguely worded, and quite frankly pathetic harassment policy which does more to assert the rights and opinions of the CS department than anything else.

 

So are you going to leave a warzone because someone told you "You suck"? That's what the rules tell you to do. It tells you to leave the warzone and not report it. That doesn't benefit you, doesn't benefit your team who might be down a member now, and only benefits the trash talker on the enemy side of the warzone.

 

I don't trash talk, but if you can't handle it to a degree, then for your own health, you need to not pvp, and maybe not be in an mmo at all. You'll get that same trash talk in a flashpoint if you can't do your job.

 

As for the value of our opinions:

 

Both EA and Blizzard have had utterly massive stock price falls in recent months. EA had a stock price of almost 150 dollars per share, until gamer's got fed up with the lootboxes and political correctness. Now it's 86 dollars per share. Blizzard situation, gamers revolted against a cruddy reskinned Asian mobile game that tried to pass itself off as a Diablo game. Their stock went from 83 dollars to barely above 50.

 

Both EA and Blizzard have lost billions, and billions of dollars in the past few months, based solely on gamer's opinions. That's because, in the entertainment industry, opinions of the consumers are absolutely the driving factor behind the value of that company's stock.

 

The overt political correctness, and rewriting of history to appeal to SJWs, cost EA over 3 billion dollars with battlefront 2.

 

You can say the rules are there, and aren't up for debate, but most people know that laws (or policy) is vastly different than the application of said laws (or policy).

 

Now apply that to a company that just lost 3 billion dollars because it appealed too much to the fragile snowflakes rather than their actual target demographic. You think they're going to punish paying customers who only technically violate the policy, or will they take a practical approach, which sees typical behavior as an "incidents" and not harassment?

 

Who defines harassment, and toxicity, and simple trashtalk? We do. The consumers. We define it by the online culture we create, which sets the standards and environment for which these interactions occur. That's why telling someone "you suck" in pvp isn't harassment. Because almost no one in our community sees it that way.

 

So yeah, what harassment is, what toxicity is, and defining typical behavior is very much based on what our collective opinion is.