How many did not Hate KOTFE or KOTET...

[Ylliarus]

it doenst matter who teaches you , Valkorian wants you to learn both> That is part of the story. It is said you know both sides of the force several times. Yea you played it alright. Google it again and give me a response.

 

My friend I have played through the story, staying Dark Side only or Light Side only is perfectly plausible. I am tired of arguing, really. I offer you reasonable counter arguments but you dismiss everything nonetheless. Our debate is pointless.

[Kiesu]

Hate is a strong word. I _disliked_ a lot of what kotfe/et had to offer, but I'd be lying if I'd say I hated the entire thing.

There was a lot of good writing, a lot of bad writing. A lot of stupid gameplay decisions (who thought walkers that get stuck on every branch was immersive) and a lot of great character building moments. Tbh there is too many things I could complain about so I'll just add the one I haven't ranted about somewhere recently

 

What really got me bummed out the most, was how the plot of kotfe/et basically forces the other 7 class characters to no longer exist in the universe as they were.

I *loved* the class stories, because there was constant references of the other player classes living and doing stuff simultaneously in the same world, and never step on each-others toes.

Kotfe/et forced us out of that vision. Something happened to all of the other class character that made them evaporate out of the universe and their crew completely ditch them to go serve just one character- the outlander. 7 classes are basically dead at the beginning of kotfe/et apart from the one you choose to become outlander, and that doesn't sit well with me.

And the fact that the story only makes really makes sense for a force-user, sure didn't help.

[Fallensouls]

Ohh I don't know, maybe you go back because you remembered suddenly you are a Jedi, and maybe because you made some vows to defender and serve the Republic, maybe honor the fact that Jedi is irrevocably synonymous with the Republic?

 

Heres the things, Its yours character you can have feel anything you want about the Republic, the Jedi, power the force, but lets call a spade a spade here,which if done makes everything you just said totally valid.

 

*You were a Jedi, you are not anymore, you broke yours vow to the Jedi Order, you broke you sworn oath to the Republic to protect and serve it, and not for nothing, those things made you nothing more, in their eyes, but a Traitor. So at least own up to that part and stop trying to make excuses about how its okay to do whatever you want and there be no reasonable reprocutions in the story.

 

You are a traitor to the Republic, you're guilty of treason. Your going to let the Jedi Order fight a war against it's greatest and intracable foe whom you know wants the total and utter destruction of the Republic and to wipe out the Jedi Order to a man [by the way, I'm one of them] and you're not going to help them in a War of Annihilation? Yeah that's some great role-playing of a Jedi. Yeah but screw em right? You never liked wear those dresses they make all the Jedi wear anyways and this is payback time baby! heh Tell you what though, I'll say hi to them for you when I'm saccing the Senate house on the pub capital where they are. No worries, I'll give them quick deaths, the olds ones, the children, the scholars, the padawans, the council and everyone you ever knew and will never see again because you were too busy playing Emperor of the 25 Zakuulians who hate your guts as much as all Zakuulians do, but, are pretending to be cool with you so they can wack you when your gaurd is down for killing their last 5 Emperors and tearing the Eternal Empire that now lies in ruins because of what you did.

 

The force isnt one thing, its a light side and a darkside. That's not open to interperation, the press release from the LucasArts Storytellers group covered this when they stated there is no such thing a grey jedi, and there force is not one thing, its a darkside and a lightside. That's as straight as straight gets.

 

Unless you're character had a lie detector test going when Satelle and the Traitor Marr spouted that horsecrap, they were just words. Anyone can say anything they want, that doesn't make it true. Satele and Marr were wrong. If the force is really just this one thing with no sides, how come the most powerful force users that ever existed were totally and utterly incompetant with regard to what the force really is. How come, Marr was allowed to break the ancient forbidance of Dark side ghosts? That's a light side thing. I use to love Marr, but I lost all respect for him because what he was saying. I doubt it was even really him tho as there are no Darkside Force Ghosts and I would think you would still need to be alive to fall to the Lightside and be a pansy *** with Satelle

 

Just in case your interested in that press release i mentioned, about no Grey Jedi and the force just being dark and light, I dont expect anyone to take my word for it. https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/98917/are-grey-jedi-canon-official-lucasfilm-response

 

You get darkside points and lightsides points from where exactly? It can't be the force because it doesn't have sides, right? And why would you get anything ever in that regard from something that doesn't exist? You get force oints from.....wait for it......wait for it.... ohh yeah, that's right the force. I guess it gets bored sometimes and even tho there is no lightside or darkside it just does that sometimes to color coordinate players based on their gear colors. - There is a Darkside and a Lightside in this game for sure.

 

I'm sorry you don't approve Tradtional Star Wars. But you probably should have figured you might see some Jedi and Sith not liking each other every now and than.

 

I sincerely hope that you and other players who have become fond of the Alliance crap, I mean story , will be affording the opportunity to continue to have it play some part at least in your storylines, even if it is just to tie up the loose ends and give you some meaningful closure to it so it's not just snap your fingers and it's gone. That wouldn't be fair to you guys. And if they can keep the Alliance involved somehow despite the storyline change, I'm all for it and back you guys 100% and I really mean that. I want you guys to have fun. I want everyone to be as happy as they can be in the game we all love and would like to see continue and prosper in the future.

 

All pubs must die

 

You cant return to the Jedi or the Sith tho, that is a violation of Star Wars cannon. Let me explain.

The Jedi do not allow members to use any darkside powers at all. The Sith do not allow any force users to use the light side powers or they hunt and kill you. Before as you first leveled your character if you chose to use the opposite faction powers you hid it. You cannot hide what you are as the outlander, it is known you use both sides of the force just like Reven. Reven could no longer be a Jedi or a Sith he was much more than them and neither faction would accept him because he used both. Those factions in turn would never accept the Outlander back into their ranks. They maybe would use you and turn on you but you would never be Sith or jedi again.

 

Frankly they had another option for a story. They could have you as the emperor of Zakkul and the Alliance attack the Empire and the Republic for betraying you and trying to steal weapons from you on Iokath. Then conquer them both for a time. That would more likely be what would happen in that story than you running back to beg your former faction to save you.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Fallensouls

[JattaGin]

I never hated KotFE or KotET, although KotET is quite a drag to play through on alts.

 

What I hate is that they didn't go through with their original idea of 3 trilogies and monthly chapters. For my preferred play style, this would have been 3 great years. Much better anyway than what we got after KotET.

[DawnAskham]

Returning player catching up to see what I've missed, and while I do not 'hate' the story portions of KotFE / KotET (though they don't make sense for non-force users IMO), I do 'hate' them as 'expansions' to SWTOR.

 

KotFE launched with only a partial story (mostly in fully phased hallways stuffed with skytrooper trash), the rest gated by the dolling out of a new chapter every month or two, with no new end-game content, a ridiculous number of bugs, and enough bug-based exploits to trash the economy (which seems to have gone into hyper-inflation),

 

On top of that, they totally fracked up the companion system - even today, returning years after KotFE, some of my comps I spent time and credits to rank up are unavailable even using the terminal thing, while some of my characters have multiple copies of the same companion available.

 

KotET was just more of the same KotFE story, and while it was released all at once unlike KotFE, the fact they for a second time raised the level cap and reset gear without adding any actual new end-game content was dumb, which they then doubled down on by putting gearing inside a grind for RNG boxes system (I really want to grind for weeks for chances at gear so I can complete old content - said no one ever).

 

IMO had the stories been optional side missions with some major differences for non-force users and / or had they actually added more outdoor areas / planets like the base game, and / or they added actual new progressive end-game content with normal gearing systems, and / or they not fouled up companions so badly and instead offered up continuing stories with player agency, they would have been much better received.

 

Sadly though, I don't see the game ever being as good as it was prior to KotFE (so the whole 2019 will be the best year ever being touted by the studio sounds laughable) given the number of bad decisions and the lack of investment in the game by EA.

Edited October 19, 2018 by DawnAskham

[Aeneas_Falco]

Hate is too strong of a word. Overall I didn't like the expansions but that doesn't mean there weren't also some things I enjoyed about them.

 

Liked:

 

• The cinematic content in the game never looked better.
  
• The voice acting was fantastic.
  
• The look of both Odessen and Zakuul.
  
• That battles in KoTET, like the invasions of Voss or Odessen, actually had the look and feel of battles. That was missing in some of the original content, like Corellia for example, which looks and feels like any other MMO quest area.
  
• Valkorian. Although I was not a fan of the Zakuulan empire I thought KotFE & KoTET's take on the Sith Emperor was much better than the vanilla content. He was better written, acted, and had a better character design than class story Vitiate. I'd gladly have Valkorian be the Sith Emperor at the start of the game.
  
• Arcann. I thought he was an interesting character and that it was cool that he could be redeemed to the light side.
  
• The boss fights with Arcann, Vaylin, and Valkorian. I found them fun and while they don't compare to Ops bosses, they provided a moderate challenge by solo story content standards.
  
• The possession storyline with Vitiate/Valkorian. I thought that was interesting, though it would have worked better as a continuation of the Jedi Knight's class story.
  

 

Disliked:

 

• The Alliance. The story just does not feel like Star Wars, and to an almost lore-breaking extent, when you have Sith and Jedi holding hands and cooperating. An eternal conflict between practioners of the light and dark sides of the Force is Star Wars.
  
• Being Alliance Commander. It takes your player character out of their class background and defeats the purpose of playing as them. People pick a Jedi or Sith at start up to experience a Jedi or Sith story, not to be some sort of factional commander that is entirely separate from that. Likewise Bounty hunters want to hunt bounties, Smugglers smuggle, Agents do their 007 routine, and Troopers doing special operations for the Republic.
  
• The Zakuulan empire. This faction appears nowhere else in the lore or EU and yet it suddenly materializes in the story of SWTOR, with it's force using knights we've never heard of, to defeat the Sith Empire, the Republic, and the Sith and Jedi simultaneously. It's the Mary Sue of EU factions.
  
• Separate faction stories being dropped.
  
• Each of the eight player characters no longer existing simultaneously, with only one canon Alliance Commander, and the other seven disappearing entirely from the story. That effectively killed replay value.
  
• Original companion characters being removed, some of whom have still yet to return....nearly three years after Knights of the Fallen Empire premiered.
  
• Most of the new companion characters having little in the way of story or dialogue. See all the Star Fortress companions as examples.
  
• Most of the returning companions having very little role in the story compared to Theron and Lana.
  
• The grindy nature of some of the content, with endless boring hallways filled with skytroopers.
  
• That there is little to do on either Odessen or Zakuul beyond the story chapters. Both should have been daily areas.
  
• That there was little in the way of grouped content.
  
• Vaylin. I know she has her fans, but I found her brat persona grating.
  
• Non-Force users in the role of Alliance Commander. It is silly. The Smuggler and Bounty Hunter in particular are laughable in the role, as you couldn't pick two worse candidates, but even the Agent and Trooper do not work.
  
• Darth Marr's ghost and Satele Shan being besties. Satele Shan is the grandmaster of the Jedi order, a champion of the light side of the Force, and they have her hanging out with the ghost of a Dark Council member. On that note Marr is way too warm and fuzzy. He's the shade of an evil dark council member. His spirit should be demonic and dangerous, not something you can have a friendly chat with. That bit was weird and borderline lore breaking.
  

[Plactus]

On that note Marr is way too warm and fuzzy. He's the shade of an evil dark council member. His spirit should be demonic and dangerous, not something you can have a friendly chat with. That bit was weird and borderline lore breaking.

 

He's not so different from Ajunta Pall's ghost that Revan met.

[FlameYOL]

Ever since our disagreement over this awhile back, I have tried to play the expansions with more of an open mind. I think they get better after awhile, especially if you do them sequentially rather than doing one here and there. I think the story flows better that way; when they were initially releasing them after KotFe 9, doing them one at a time, I think people were irritated by the glacial pace.

Glad to see you gave it another chance! Don't get me wrong I am by no means claiming it is perfect, but I found it to be an enjoyable experience nevertheless and I'm glad you are now able to enjoy it for what it is. And yes, I am glad they moved into a "release all at once" so I could play the entire expansion at once, on one hand with monthly chapters you have something to look forward every month, on the other you've got to wait an entire month to possibly deal with a massive cliffhanger. Better to let players play through it all at once IMO.

 

Each chapter is not much in itself, but taken together...eh, as someone pointed out, the Valkorian arc does much to redeem Vitiate's one-note character. I also can appreciate that BW moved on from Revan and his dysfunctional dynasty to Valkorian and his dysfunctional family.

Ah Star Wars... always about family drama since the 80's.

 

I also think there's some variety in replaying them. I did one with a Space NATO ending, pure LS choices, another that was Empress Evil, all DS choices, but now i'm having fun mixing it up. So, Eternal Alliance Commander on my trooper, fine. But I also killed every threat that came my way, including Arcann and Scorpio. I'm planning on taking my JC through it mostly LS, sparing Arcann but deciding for the good of the galaxy to take the throne. There's some fun to be had if you manage your expectations of what BW can do.

There's definitely less replability than the vanilla game but I did enjoyed seeing the differences between playing a LS and DS. I think it had quite a few class references as well, which are something very small but something that I think is their best attempt at making the story feel "unique".

[Aeneas_Falco]

He's not so different from Ajunta Pall's ghost that Revan met.

 

Neither really meshes well with the lore.

 

"It was not uncommon for the spirits of Sith Lords to remain, bound to the living world through an object, location, or simply due to the force of their malice and hatred. Unlike the Jedi, however,the Sith found little peace in this form, instead existing for restless centuries, eventually driven insane by solitude, memories, or dark side inflicted madness."

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_ghost

 

"Toward the end of the Clone Wars in 19 BBY, a lone Dark Jedi was mortally wounded after a duel with the Jedi Master Yoda.[3] The darksider was able to retreat into a cave on the swamp planet of Dagobah, where he took his last breath.[4] The site of the Dark Jedi's death absorbed their dark energies. It became the Cave of Evil and was haunted by a protean manifestation of the dark side[5] known as the Dark Spirit. That fearful phantom was endowed with prophetic powers, and those who confronted it would learn about the darker side of their own nature. Although bound to the cave, the Dark Spirit could still roam the swamp-covered landscape of Dagobah, radiating an aura of fear and hate that could cloud the minds of most Force-sensitive individuals, thus weakening or even paralyzing them in the process."

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Spirit

Edited October 19, 2018 by Aeneas_Falco

[cool-dude]

I didn't hate it, but it obviously favored the Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior as its protagonist. Being a Jedi Knight even more so, because if you marry Theron as a Jedi Knight, you are a continuation of the legacy of Revan, which I think is the whole idea behind the jedi Knight story, is that you are Revan 2.0, and the things Scourge talks about comes to pass in kotfe and kotet. Edited October 19, 2018 by cool-dude

[xordevoreaux]

I actually enjoyed them the first few times. Absolutely gorgeous, and the story was engaging. I wasn't sitting there popping an artery the whole time thinking wait this isn't imp versus pub... this isn't imp versus pub... this isn't imp versus pub...

[Bonzenaattori]

From a story perspective, it was fantastic. If I had to criticize it, I would say there was just too much dialog, and the combat side of the game didn't really match up. It was hardly challenging, even on Master difficulty, just giving mobs bigger guns.

But the dialog, the build up and the tension the story did so well to develop seemed somewhat lost when you fought some of the iconic boss battles and completely rolled over every opponent. There was just... no challenge.

Simply put, the game was just.. ...too easy and one-dimensional

In fact, some of the bosses that have literally no impact on the story from a dialog perspective, were more of a threat and seemed stronger than the iconic ones

Edited October 19, 2018 by Bonzenaattori

[kodrac]

I actually enjoyed them the first few times. Absolutely gorgeous, and the story was engaging. I wasn't sitting there popping an artery the whole time thinking wait this isn't imp versus pub... this isn't imp versus pub... this isn't imp versus pub...

 

I didn't pop any arteries either, but I quickly tired of the generic Sci-Fi that was Zakuul. It felt like knock off Star Wars. You know, like instead of real Peanut Butter, it was the white label stuff that tastes like card board.

[JakRoanin]

Way too many cut scenes and not enough quests, but other than that, LOVE IT ALL.

[Lupolus]

In played the entire story with my Commando (Light and Republican mind) and with my Jedi Shadow (Dark). If you attack Senya and Arcan then suddenly Arcan decides to help his father, which story wise is rubbish. And also I didn't feel so impressed to go to Voss. If you keep alive after he attacked you time and again (ehm who does that?) you can do healing missions. Weird.

Chosing between two companions is also weird. Choices matter!

Then again, if you did the story once, the second time it feels as a chore, waiting for the interesting bits.

[FlameYOL]

If you attack Senya and Arcan then suddenly Arcan decides to help his father, which story wise is rubbish.

 

He doesn't choose to help his father... at least not on a conscious level, he merely keeps being on the dark side. Without Senya's sacrifice to conclude the ritual, and now with her death all he has is his own power so he desperately tries to get his throne back, and get his revenge. You could argue that this aids Valkorion's plans as its one less lose end to deal with.

[fishpeople]

What was the point of the Voss ritual? To turn Arcann into this mundane character we have now?

[Swingkittie]

I enjoyed the KOTFE/KOTET stories because it solidified my character's romantic relationships with Theron and Lana. Plus we got new companions as well during it. I didn't like that they shortened KOTET. They should have kept to their original ideas with that. Plus they should have returned our original companions during those two expansions. Also, I always felt that the stories were driven for force users (Trooper could fit in as well). My smuggler and bounty hunter felt soooo out of place there. Those were really the only issues I had with the stories. Other than that, I enjoyed the play through and storyline about Zakuulan empire. Plus I really liked Valkorian's voice actor. I almost wish there was another version where he wasn't all evil incarnate trying to take over your body.

[Swingkittie]

 

• Darth Marr's ghost and Satele Shan being besties. Satele Shan is the grandmaster of the Jedi order, a champion of the light side of the Force, and they have her hanging out with the ghost of a Dark Council member. On that note Marr is way too warm and fuzzy. He's the shade of an evil dark council member. His spirit should be demonic and dangerous, not something you can have a friendly chat with. That bit was weird and borderline lore breaking.
  

 

Neither really meshes well with the lore.

 

"It was not uncommon for the spirits of Sith Lords to remain, bound to the living world through an object, location, or simply due to the force of their malice and hatred. Unlike the Jedi, however,the Sith found little peace in this form, instead existing for restless centuries, eventually driven insane by solitude, memories, or dark side inflicted madness."

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_ghost

 

"Toward the end of the Clone Wars in 19 BBY, a lone Dark Jedi was mortally wounded after a duel with the Jedi Master Yoda.[3] The darksider was able to retreat into a cave on the swamp planet of Dagobah, where he took his last breath.[4] The site of the Dark Jedi's death absorbed their dark energies. It became the Cave of Evil and was haunted by a protean manifestation of the dark side[5] known as the Dark Spirit. That fearful phantom was endowed with prophetic powers, and those who confronted it would learn about the darker side of their own nature. Although bound to the cave, the Dark Spirit could still roam the swamp-covered landscape of Dagobah, radiating an aura of fear and hate that could cloud the minds of most Force-sensitive individuals, thus weakening or even paralyzing them in the process."

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Spirit

 

This character departure for both Marr and Satele was strange indeed. Satele said things that were more darker and Marr was way more light sided and soft talking. He didn't have that personality we encountered in any other previous conversations with him before his death. I don't think he had enough time to turn to the light before dying either, which would probably be the only explanation I could accept in his change. Like you stated he should have been a dark spirit not a light sided force ghost, which is what I interpreted him as becoming.

[FlameYOL]

This character departure for both Marr and Satele was strange indeed. Satele said things that were more darker and Marr was way more light sided and soft talking. He didn't have that personality we encountered in any other previous conversations with him before his death. I don't think he had enough time to turn to the light before dying either, which would probably be the only explanation I could accept in his change. Like you stated he should have been a dark spirit not a light sided force ghost, which is what I interpreted him as becoming.

 

I'm pretty sure he died a dark sider, then afterwards he tried to meet his equal to make things right or something. I guess Satele and Marr talked until they eventually found a middle ground to work with, I don't think it was a character departure, just forced character development.

Addendum: When I mean forced I mean we just get to see the end result of it, we don't get to see them talking until they reach the middle ground. When we meet them they've already reached the middle ground, it would've been interesting to have a short story of how it all started so we could see both of them going from their previous self to this new self, instead of just meeting the final product.

Edited October 19, 2018 by FlameYOL

[Nozybidajj]

I didn't "hate it", it just didn't feel very Star Wars to me. You could have plopped that same story down in the middle of any sci-fi series and it wouldn't have changed. Put it into Mass Effect replace 'the force' with biotics and the story wouldn't have changed at all.

 

Some of it was just silly. I didn't care for how OP the characters were, the way they effortlessly wiped out the Republic and Empire forces and eliminated the Dark Council, etc. all just made it feel like what was even the point of the Star Wars universe in relation to the story? Why would Valkorian ever even have bothered with us considering how 'great' his EE is? Felt like some bad fanfic where the writer has his self inserts beat up on a serie's powerful established characters just for the sake of making his own feel "cool" and "awesome" and "edgy". Just felt silly to me to have the whole EE and its characters sooooo much better than everything else in Star Wars.

 

I'm glad they are ending it and getting back to basics with the Republic/Empire Jedi/Sith conflicts. To me that is what makes Star Wars and hopefully will bring the game back to what it is supposed to be. Glad we can put this whole thing behind us now.

[Swingkittie]

I'm pretty sure he died a dark sider, then afterwards he tried to meet his equal to make things right or something. I guess Satele and Marr talked until they eventually found a middle ground to work with, I don't think it was a character departure, just forced character development.

 

I agree that it was forced character development. It just didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Maybe I am trying to compare to much to Vader for example - he turned to the light before he died which is why he became a force ghost and could now hang out with Yoda and Obi-wan . Marr becoming a force ghost was just strange to me since he didn't have that enlightenment before he died.

[FlameYOL]

I agree that it was forced character development. It just didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Maybe I am trying to compare to much to Vader for example - he turned to the light before he died which is why he became a force ghost and could now hang out with Yoda and Obi-wan . Marr becoming a force ghost was just strange to me since he didn't have that enlightenment before he died.

 

I guess. It still makes sense to me but I do think it was forced, it would've been nice to have the in-between so we could get an idea of how Marr and Satele got to the point where they were. As for Vader... well he could've become a force ghost, just probably would end up hunting some tomb and his existence would not be peaceful. Usually DS force ghosts are bound to one location but there have been exceptions in the past, most notably Freedon Nadd and now Darth Marr, Lord Kallig does it as well although he's apparently only able to do it for a brief period of time. Marr mentions how resisting the pull of the void is exhausting, so it makes me wonder if he is just that powerful or if some force shenanigans are afoot behind-the-scene to keep him in the "normal" plane of existence.

[Nefla]

It wasn't perfect and I really disliked some of the autodialogue which was OOC for some of my characters but overall I really enjoyed KotFE and KotET and would love more story expansions like that.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I guess. It still makes sense to me but I do think it was forced, it would've been nice to have the in-between so we could get an idea of how Marr and Satele got to the point where they were. As for Vader... well he could've become a force ghost, just probably would end up hunting some tomb and his existence would not be peaceful. Usually DS force ghosts are bound to one location but there have been exceptions in the past, most notably Freedon Nadd and now Darth Marr, Lord Kallig does it as well although he's apparently only able to do it for a brief period of time. Marr mentions how resisting the pull of the void is exhausting, so it makes me wonder if he is just that powerful or if some force shenanigans are afoot behind-the-scene to keep him in the "normal" plane of existence.

 

I would have much preferred to see cut scenes of Marr and Satele debating than the cut scenes with Valkorion's House of Pain.

 

In the EU there's some stuff with Anakin Skywalker's ghost, specifically that he has to square things with Leia, because unlike Luke, she doesn't forgive him for all that he did. He very specifically goes to Leia, not Luke.

 

Kallig also seems to be able to pull away from his tomb to find the Inquisitor for very specific reasons.

 

it makes me think that regardless of alignment, the ghosts can perhaps resist the Force or the void if they have something specific to do or someone in particular they need to guide. Like Marr's sticking around in KOTFE because his purpose is to get Satele to see a wider perspective and also to help the Outlander.

 

You never hear from him again, which is a shame, but it makes me think he was able to stick around to fulfill what he felt he needed to do before taking off.