252/258 Gearing System not viable for Casual/PvP players

[mrphstar]

As someone who hated the whole "get mats from ranked" garbage because it encouraged people to go do just that - ne garbage and get mats to prioritize queue pops over anything else - its the simple fact that a NiM raider should presumably be talented enough at his spec to at least hold his own in pvp.

 

A pvper just randomly jumping into a NiM raid is going to be totally lost. The mat thing in ranked was an obvious, if superficial, attempt to encourage more players to do ranked pvp.

 

Following that same logic, this could be an attempt to get more interest in NiM raiding. The problem is that NiM raiding involves far more than queuing for sranked or getting 3 randoms off fleet together for granked. It requires 8 highly competent people with enough time and patience to deal woth the learning process. I had enough patience to do ranked enough for mats (and no, i never lose on purpose). NiM raiding is impossible for me as:

1. Frankly I have neither the time nor patience. Hours long wipefests leave me thinking that i could have been having fun.

2. I also do not have the players - 8 people talented enough for NiM who can be on nightly for hours on end wipefesting away are incredibly rare.

3. Unlike the mats in ranked, where you can get the mats for losing and thus still progess, getting mats in a raid will be exclusive to winning - i.e. killing a boss and/or compelting the raid.

 

This is why i suggest that the simplier solution is to somehow make this gear tier irrelevant for pvpers. Why should doing NiM ops give you an advantage in PvP (and yes, by that same logic, I'm perfectly fine if they want to remove the mats from ranked and make them avaliable via pve somehow).

 

On the odd chance anyone at BW actually reads or cares what I think - most people in this game do not do all aspects of it, nor do they truly desire to do so. Attempting to force your ideal of playstyle on everyone has already proven not to work. Your best strategy is simply to incentivize people for what they want to do, not to force every player to do every thing whether they enjoy it or not.

 

fair point.

 

on a side note: why shouldnt obvsly more talented players getting better rewards?

if NiM raiders are able to play decent pvp, but not vice versa, why not reward them accordingly?

(dont wanna trigger anyone, but some of you even admited it yourself)

 

but anyway, all i was saying is: its not always the PVPers getting forced to play things they dont like, but i have yet to see a PVE player crying out loud as they do every now and then. no mether if its about classes, gear systems, missing content, etc.

 

and trust me, as someone coming from a semi-professionell shooter scene, i´m just tired of the toxic community of these competitve game modes and therefor wont play any second of pvp for the next couple of years.

even if the only way to get BiS would be ranked pvp. would I be mad? of course. would i open the 10th thread in 2 days to complain about it? probably not.

[Exocor]

There are two ways to get the new gear available for PvP-players:

 

- farm UC components. I currently have sufficient amounts of it to purchase two full gear sets immediately - or, as soon as I have the required reputation. For someone who is daily doing ranked and/or unranked warzones, the required amounts should be obtainable within a meaningful period of time.

 

- Trade in your purple crafting materiels into Master Mode Operation materiels - the same PvE'ers did to obtain purple PvP-crafting-materiels before they became available vie conquest. Now craft the gearsets you want.

 

I completely support this new methodology to obtain endgame-gear. I myself urged Keith to make NiM-operations rewarding and have us progress through the content instead of making gearthe gear available on day one.

 

Regarding PvP-balance, I still support making gear useless in pvp. That can for example be obtained by introducing a proper bolster - may it be an upbolster or a downbolster. However, I do not support in any way a system that makes gear available too easy by doing certain activities. The only thing I support here is rewarding long-time-player, who were active within the last year. This is given with the way to obtain Gear via Unassembled Components.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Exocor

[DavidAtkinson]

Dear Keith + Bioware Team,

 

I implore you to consider implementing an alternative gearing system for the PvP community, to your proposed 252/258 gear. I'm going to keep the reasons why this hurts us (BADLY) in a concise list below:

 

1. Many PvPers don't do PvE. Obtaining the means to gear up through a PvE gearing system is forcing people to participate in an aspect of the game they may not enjoy in order to grind gear.

 

2. You are penalising the Casual player: The Data Crystals you mention are obtainable for "Casual" players by doing the weeklies on multiple characters and then transfer over the mods via legacy - will Casual players really have the time to do weeklies on multiple characters? And at an ever increasing cost of UC? This doesn't sound Casual to me. Believe it or not, some of us have jobs and families and lives outside of the game, playing recreationally in our spare time.

 

3. The Craft option: How about crafters that are PvPers? Are they now supposed to be able to jump into a Gods MM and to obtain mats? This isn't realistic for many (even hardcore PvE'ers struggle with this ops) and nor should you expect a PvP player to need to do PvE in order to get mats for crafting.

 

4. Market creation: This will create a hyper-inflated market for mats, held in the hands of the MM PvE community who will be able to charge whatever they want. At least with T-ranked, anyone can give it a go and still eventually be rewarded without too much complexity.

 

In summary, you've made it astoundingly difficult and not enjoyable for PvPers like myself and many others to obtain high end gear. Some of us are still trying to gear alts in 248....

 

There was nothing wrong with the old 204/208 system for PvP - it was in fact perfect and put everyone on the same level playing field. Take a look at what they're doing in GW2 where they essentially make skill and not gear, the focus for PvP. Thanks for listening.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Loyal + Casual PvP Player that is hanging in here all these years despite many bad decisions by Bioware.

 

If you are a casual PVP-er gear shouldn't matter to you... You can farm mats in Team ranked without any sort of gear.

 

If you seriously want to best others in regs or ranked then yes, gear is a factor...

[KendraP]

fair point.

 

on a side note: why shouldnt obvsly more talented players getting better rewards?

if NiM raiders are able to play decent pvp, but not vice versa, why not reward them accordingly?

(dont wanna trigger anyone, but some of you even admited it yourself)

 

Getting the "rewards" (i.e.mats) via pvp involves nothing but time and patience - if you have the mental patience to handle a NiM wipefest, you probably have the patience to handle the losses in ranked as well. And you can lose and get rewarded for it in ranked.

 

Ranked is also doable completely by yourself - you are not dependant on anyone else to actually get what you need (other people being competent make it faster but they are hardly necessary)

 

Neither of these is true about NiM. I could be the best vigi guardian on the server (hahahahaha, I'm not, but for arguments sake) and still not get the rewards for NiM if I can't find 7 other highly competent people to also beat the boss or complete the raid. Raiding is as much about group as personal competence. If they want to give mats for getting people to just enter a NiM raid area and not do anything (or maybe, giveyou a mat for every boss pull), its suddenly comparable to what NiMers were doing in ranked for transubs.

 

but anyway, all i was saying is: its not always the PVPers getting forced to play things they dont like, but i have yet to see a PVE player crying out loud as they do every now and then. no mether if its about classes, gear systems, missing content, etc.

 

This is why i think the logic rolls both ways - BW needs to stop attempting to force us to be all rounded players, and simply let people do what they want and get what they need to be competitive at it. I also fall back on the arguments above - pvp is completely doable with random pugs and no voice chat. SM gods can't really say that, much less NiM.

and trust me, as someone coming from a semi-professionell shooter scene, i´m just tired of the toxic community of these competitve game modes and therefor wont play any second of pvp for the next couple of years.

even if the only way to get BiS would be ranked pvp. would I be mad? of course. would i open the 10th thread in 2 days to complain about it? probably not.

 

I haven't started any threads about it, and i think its rsther pointless personally as BW has no history of actually listening to any reasonable concerns (and in fact, attempts to ninja in changes people will not be fond of). But this is a major issue if the stats on the gear are actually a decent boost (and if they're not why keep introducing new gear/augments without raising content difficulty?).

 

Again the simplest all around solution is to make the gear factor irrelevant to pvp.

Edited October 15, 2018 by KendraP

[Andryah]

Well, casual players won't need the extra gear. Every solo content in game is already doable without any gear upgrade, you don't need to be competitive to do heroics. Master Mode chapters are the hardest solo content currently and you can beat those just fine with current gear.

 

For PVP you are correct, gear is a big factor that a lot of people would like to remove the need entirely to have an even playing field for all players, and make it a skill game mode, rather than a gear game.

 

^^ Exactly.

 

Any player not playing the very edge of difficulty at level cap should simply resist the urge to jump on this incremental gear addition. It's a grind designed to distract from the delay in announcing 6.0.

 

It's not even clear how much benefit this gear will give to even those who do ranked PvP and hardest OP content in PvE. I know PvPers will disagree on this... but in reality it remains to be seen what advantage this gear will actually provide in PvP. The gear is essentially identical to top tier gear now.. with the addition of a very modest bump in stats. I think we are talking 3-4% at most on stats.. and frankly... that gets swamped out on even given combat cycle just from the RNG variables in the combat calculations. It is also not known yet if they will bump bolster accordingly.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Andryah

[Sarova]

I will definitely become a casual player in like one month, where I will be able to play like 1 evening a week. I still want to raid and later do ranked warzones, so how am I supposed to get gear? I will login with my toons being 248 geared and will get ripped appart by people in 258.

I'm not a "casual" player however I am a SOLO player. Not all solo content is easy and you've highlighted exactly how people like me will be affected. I choose to play a lightning sorcerer as my main and have managed to gear her to 248 BEFORE the changed to GC which made it easier. Had I not I would stand no chance in PvP and would not have completed any of the harder solo content (harder mode chapters for example). I'l like to be able to gear my main to 252 but putting one of the crafting materials behind an MM OP excludes me. They have not said whether that particular material will be tradeable/sellable.

 

If they want elite raiders to have the best gear than make the gear drops rather than putting them behind crafted. I don't understand why they are trying to force OPs on people. They tried it with Iokath by forcing the OPs quest on everyone and making it so it can't be abandoned. I have no desire to run swtor ops in their current form and never will.

 

I did used to do the easy mode raids in wow though - the ones where you queued LFR for 25 players and entered a nerfed version of the "real" raid. As a solo wow player got to experience what the raid was but without the elite gear drops. I really miss those. If swtor did something similar higher level mats I'd love that.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Sarova

[mrphstar]

Getting the "rewards" (i.e.mats) via pvp involves nothing but time and patience - if you have the mental patience to handle a NiM wipefest, you probably have the patience to handle the losses in ranked as well. And you can lose and get rewarded for it in ranked.

 

Ranked is also doable completely by yourself - you are not dependant on anyone else to actually get what you need (other people being competent make it faster but they are hardly necessary)

 

This is why i think the logic rolls both ways - BW needs to stop attempting to force us to be all rounded players, and simply let people do what they want and get what they need to be competitive at it. I also fall back on the arguments above - pvp is completely doable with random pugs and no voice chat. SM gods can't really say that, much less NiM.

 

Again the simplest all around solution is to make the gear factor irrelevant to pvp.

 

ok, "talented" was the wrong word, let me rephrase it:

communication and teamspirit are soft skills i consider to be pretty important in mass multplayer games. so why not reward them?

[MackPol]

If you are a casual PVP-er gear shouldn't matter to you... You can farm mats in Team ranked without any sort of gear.

 

If you seriously want to best others in regs or ranked then yes, gear is a factor...

 

How about you dont tell me what should matter to me ?

Can you grasp a concept of playing NOT A LOT ? Rather then not competitively.

[Storm-Cutter]

Link to some mechanics likely in the latest operation.

 

 

This is from the PTS balance sweep notes. - The game designers must realize that a lot of people don't have many hours and days to learn operation mechanics. - Some want to log-in, spin around a few dailies or run a couple of PVP matches and log off. - But even such 'casuals' are paying the same sub money - so why not have the opportunity to earn the same level of equipment for their characters. - And TBH 1/2 hour a day every day player should be a more valuable customer than one who does a 2-hour operation once a week.

 

- Reading the entire changes post and digesting it takes longer than some of my log-in windows.

 

BW need to rethink this. - IT would appear that only raiders are valued in this game. PvP-ers/solo/casual are 2nd class citizens. - even though they're paying the same.....

Edited October 15, 2018 by Storm-Cutter

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

As someone who hated the whole "get mats from ranked" garbage because it encouraged people to go do just that - ne garbage and get mats to prioritize queue pops over anything else - its the simple fact that a NiM raider should presumably be talented enough at his spec to at least hold his own in pvp.

 

A pvper just randomly jumping into a NiM raid is going to be totally lost. The mat thing in ranked was an obvious, if superficial, attempt to encourage more players to do ranked pvp.

 

Following that same logic, this could be an attempt to get more interest in NiM raiding. The problem is that NiM raiding involves far more than queuing for sranked or getting 3 randoms off fleet together for granked. It requires 8 highly competent people with enough time and patience to deal with the learning process. I had enough patience to do ranked enough for mats (and no, i never lose on purpose). NiM raiding is impossible for me as:

1. Frankly I have neither the time nor patience. Hours long wipefests leave me thinking that i could have been having fun.

2. I also do not have the players - 8 people talented enough for NiM who can be on nightly for hours on end wipefesting away are incredibly rare.

3. Unlike the mats in ranked, where you can get the mats for losing and thus still progess, getting mats in a raid will be exclusive to winning - i.e. killing a boss and/or completing the raid.

 

This is why i suggest that the simplier solution is to somehow make this gear tier irrelevant for pvpers. Why should doing NiM ops give you an advantage in PvP (and yes, by that same logic, I'm perfectly fine if they want to remove the mats from ranked and make them avaliable via pve somehow).

 

On the odd chance anyone at BW actually reads or cares what I think - most people in this game do not do all aspects of it, nor do they truly desire to do so. Attempting to force your ideal of playstyle on everyone has already proven not to work. Your best strategy is simply to incentivize people for what they want to do, not to force every player to do every thing whether they enjoy it or not.

 

You're right about the PVP-PVE differences and there interchangability skill wise. They are both unique and require different skill sets in some part. hat said, they both require a lot of skill, they both are a measuring stick, they both speak of the players merits and skills, they're just different. One affords you little advantage in the other. Learning your spec is the same in both, you need to know the same things to optimize your spec. That's just like knowing how a car handles, you need to handle it and knowing what it's capable of in the same way in all environments or you will crash sooner or later.

 

No one is a better player overall simply because they are good in one or the other. Exclusively speaking, Raiders will out DPS PVPers in a fight by a mile. PVPers will destroy a Raider in a duel, it won't even be close.

 

I'm confident when it comes down to it, NIM is simply not an option for 90% of the players and it's unreliable. You get nothing with a "loss" [wipe] in NiM, and even NiM raiders wipe sometime, progression teams not on farm which is most teams wipe regularly. Depending on the fight, it only takes one person, making one mistake than can lead to an insta=whipe and everyone dies, even the people who were on the ball. It can be frustraiting as hell, I hated NiM heh.[And I didn't clear everything, DP/DF, no chance].

 

There is another consideration. When you die or even just fight in Raids, your equiptment takes damage [it even takes damage from dummy parsing] and it can break and if you don't fix it the stats will be lower than, when you die in lendendary gear you are looking at a repair cost [if memory serves] of at least 40k per death. Everytime you die that's another 40k Even when you don't die, it will still take damage and incur repair costs. You can't do that kind of content if you are not able to pay excessive repair costs, which in legendary gear, don't even enter a NiM op if your not willing to py 100, 000's of credits to repair.

 

PVP has no repair costs. Its a very real consideration, and those costs were based on 242-248 gear. You can be sure 258 repair costs under the same conditions will run to 60 k. With insta wipe mechanics that means everyone dies immediatey even if they didn't cause it. 60k x8 per wipe, figure a third of that even if you live just from general use [althought not repeatedly]

 

5 deaths in a night [and it would likely be a lot more for 90% of players] x 60, that's 300k costs for failure and for which you get nothing for your troubles if you don't even up clearing. That's a conservative estimate and things may even be worse now. Move on to the next boss, start all over again with the same costs in mind in addtion. You need a second job if your not NiM farming level. I certainly wasn't, I was decent at best and I never cleared all NiM, more like half and not even the hardest ones [DF/DP].

 

PVP will be the fastest and cheapest way of gearing 258 for 90% of the player base, possibly more.

 

For those who think "they'll just learn to do NiM" when they don't have at least a ton of HM experience, BIS gear Ratings will be at 356 by the time you are NiM farm worthy in 7.2 heh You also better love failing a lot.

 

While I don't have a problem with NiM gearing having a faster gear time for those who are NiM Farm worthy, it shouldn't be massive and no one should be forced to play content they are not interested in, they should all have viable means of gearing up in each area of play. I support your notion in that regard 100%.

Edited October 15, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[KendraP]

ok, "talented" was the wrong word, let me rephrase it:

communication and teamspirit are soft skills i consider to be pretty important in mass multplayer games. so why not reward them?

 

I'm not saying don't reward them - I certainly prefer other PvPers that communicate and work as a team. As an objective based pvper, i am entirely dependant on team members calling and responding to calls, which requires both communication and teamwork.

 

I'm saying PvP and PvE are not directly comparable, because in one it is perfectly easy to claim "here you might have lost because someone else was bad, have a prize anyway (just have a better one for winning)" and in PvE this is not feasible (again, what would they do, give a prize for every attempt, successful or not?).

 

Not being able to do NiM says nothing about how well i communicate or work as a team. Indeed, I think pvp can be equally important in terms of communication and teamwork - yet they throw the mats at you win or lose. It says everything about I don't have 8 people who are on 2 days a week, much less 8 of the best players in the game who are on for hours on end and enjoy wipefesting daily.

 

There's a reason games are trending away from the grindfest/basement dwelling model.

[Storm-Cutter]

NVM. When things were gated behind PVP there were a lot of refuseniks who went into WZ and went AFK to let 7 other people carry them for Mats/tokens/companions/valor.

 

When the boot is on the other foot however, 15 people are unlikely to be skilled enough carry 1 in the latest hardest-mode operation, especially when they themselves are in the learning process.

 

Way to go BW. Setting PvP and PvE-ers at each others throats again. How did that work out last time?

Edited October 15, 2018 by Storm-Cutter

[mrphstar]

There's a reason games are trending away from the grindfest/basement dwelling model.

 

yeah right, the reaon is the gamers mindset, this annoying "i wanna have XY, but i dont want to invest to much time to get it" mentallity. thats why pay 2 win was created.

as someone else stated:

"someone playing 1d/week pays the same amount as someone playing 7days/week, why shouldnt he have the same chances to get BiS?"

 

he has! he just doesnt uses his money as well as the 7-day-player. which is totally fine, if you have kids, job or other more important things to do instead of playing a game. but how the f*** can someone complain about others reaching their goal faster while he doesnt invest as much time as they do.

all you should do is evaluate if its worth the money to pay for, if you can´t or don´t want to invest that much time into a hobby.

 

...but totally different topic, sorry for the rant.

[Andryah]

There are two ways to get the new gear available for PvP-players:

 

- farm UC components. I currently have sufficient amounts of it to purchase two full gear sets immediately - or, as soon as I have the required reputation. For someone who is daily doing ranked and/or unranked warzones, the required amounts should be obtainable within a meaningful period of time.

 

- Trade in your purple crafting materiels into Master Mode Operation materiels - the same PvE'ers did to obtain purple PvP-crafting-materiels before they became available vie conquest. Now craft the gearsets you want.

 

I completely support this new methodology to obtain endgame-gear. I myself urged Keith to make NiM-operations rewarding and have us progress through the content instead of making gearthe gear available on day one.

 

Regarding PvP-balance, I still support making gear useless in pvp. That can for example be obtained by introducing a proper bolster - may it be an upbolster or a downbolster. However, I do not support in any way a system that makes gear available too easy by doing certain activities. The only thing I support here is rewarding long-time-player, who were active within the last year. This is given with the way to obtain Gear via Unassembled Components.

 

^^ Concise, logical, and right on point.

 

Given the diversity of play style, play objectives, and approach to game play by the broad audience of MMO players ..... it is almost impossible to make a gear offering scenario that is absolutely fair in terms of parity for all players. Which is why having multiple ways to gain said gear (even if some of a bit less efficient) is a practical reality in MMOs.

 

Honestly.. when first teased to us about the tier 5 gear.. it caused a lot of angst because what was teased out was that it was only available through crafting.. and needed farmed new rare materials from PvE only. Yet in the new stream reveals.. clearly the studio is providing a multi path approach to obtaining the gear, which is actually a good thing. The fact that the gear has a high access curve, be it in time or materials, or other resources (like throttle UC turn-ins for MWS) is simply the studio not wanting everyone in tier 5 gear in the first week of the patch going live. There is literally a natural pathway for most demographics of players here... even PvP only players. That said.. it's also clearly not on an instant gratification dispensing machine either. It IS meant to have a grind factor to it clearly... and I also agree that said top tier gear should not be easy to acquire in just a short effort and short time investment.

 

Separately... is the gear worth the time and resource effort acquire it? For a majority of players.... very likely the answer is a firm NO. For those that min/max or follow some form of min/max profiling in an attempt to gain an edge on other players (PvP is the context here) yeah... any new gear is probably worth the time and effort if that is what you want in the form of gear. There should be no free lunch though, not even a subsidized lunch really (though I would submit the more competitive PvPers are likely sitting on large stacks of UCs when patch goes live and as such... that does sort of give them a subsidized pathway to gearing) ... and the studio very smartly has put a throttle and a diminishing returns profile on buying MWS so that PvPers with large amounts of UC cannot be geared on day one... which honestly.. I see as a fairness scheme for PvPers so that those with lots of UCs do not have an instant advantage over those with a much smaller stack of UCs in hand.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Andryah

[KendraP]

yeah right, the reaon is the gamers mindset, this annoying "i wanna have XY, but i dont want to invest to much time to get it" mentallity. thats why pay 2 win was created.

as someone else stated:

"someone playing 1d/week pays the same amount as someone playing 7days/week, why shouldnt he have the same chances to get BiS?"

 

he has! he just doesnt uses his money as well as the 7-day-player. which is totally fine, if you have kids, job or other more important things to do instead of playing a game. but how the f*** can someone complain about others reaching their goal faster while he doesnt invest as much time as they do.

all you should do is evaluate if its worth the money to pay for, if you can´t or don´t want to invest that much time into a hobby.

 

...but totally different topic, sorry for the rant.

 

If you took calculus and assuming we could mathematically model it, this is an optimization problem.

 

There should be a reward for more time spent, certainly, but there must also be progress for paying players who do have IRL commitments.

 

Somewhere there is a sweet spot in terms of "time to grind", if we could model this mathematically we could take a derivative and set it equal to zero lol (if only life were ever that simple )

Edited October 15, 2018 by KendraP

[Rion_Starkiller]

I played several matches on my 248 geared & 240 aug'd scrapper last night.

 

So many people are not even in full 248's that I can't understand the 5.10 gear rage. There was literally one other person on my team that broke 130k hp. PSA 131,877 hp is the magic number for fully geared with all datacrons.

 

These "pure pvp" people complaining about the new gear must not have played pre-3.0 when only 1% of pvp'ers had high end ranked gear.

 

This is not a shooter. This is not Overwatch. Grind the gear like everyone else.

[kukumburr]

I wouldn't mind if I just had to grind PvP. But I have to grind dailies too.

 

Why are the "it's good you have to grind" people okay with this system anyways when not everyone DOES have to grind? Rich people can bypass the rep grind and just buy the gear as soon as it goes up for sale from crafters. I mean they'll have to wait for the Ops mat to become available but that's it. So this isn't even a good system if you believe you should have to grind a lot for gear.

[Salphidor]

I personally find it good, that only the MM players get the good stuff, and I'm saying that as a SM player. I have no need for 258 gear, because I can play my content in 248 just fine, which you can easily get over the command stash.

 

I'm generally uncertain, if you can only get 258 with the mats out of MM from GotM, or if there are other options. And as it is said before, a casual player doesn't need 258.

 

I feel with the PvP community though (not being big on PvP myself), and don't understand the need for any MMO to not have different gear for PvP and PvE content. This way you really never have this issue.

 

However giving the mats through PvP is not the solution, because you can run as many warzones as you like, while there are only 5 bosses that you can kill every week. Which would actually favor the PvP players.

[Syal]

am just LMAOF about those who spend billion in 240+ update for... finaly nothing now !

 

Bioware, the grind of art !

[IoNonSoEVero]

As a story mode player, I've reconciled myself to the fact that I'm not getting this gear. If a piece of it shows up in a command crate, or if I can earn enough of the shards from doing the dailies over time to afford a piece here or there, yay, but otherwise, it's not happening.

 

There's the crafting route, but again, I'm not doing the content that's going to get me the mats. Right now crafting a piece of GEMINI gear costs somewhere around 3 million credits, if you are not doing the content that would give you the most valuable mats and you need to buy them on the GTN. I would imagine that the mats required for the new gear will be even more astronomical. It reaches a point where it's not worth it.

 

As long as bioware doesn't do anything stupid like tuning the upcoming story mode flashpoints and game play to 242+, I'm good on passing up this gear. But I recognize that it's going to be a problem for other players who do engage in the multiplayer aspects and have more of a need for the gear, and that it might screw up GTN prices for everyone.

[MackPol]

I played several matches on my 248 geared & 240 aug'd scrapper last night.

 

So many people are not even in full 248's that I can't understand the 5.10 gear rage. There was literally one other person on my team that broke 130k hp. PSA 131,877 hp is the magic number for fully geared with all datacrons.

 

These "pure pvp" people complaining about the new gear must not have played pre-3.0 when only 1% of pvp'ers had high end ranked gear.

 

This is not a shooter. This is not Overwatch. Grind the gear like everyone else.

 

Yeah dude as you say 2 people had full 248 out of what 16 ? That surely means we need new gear to grind when 10% of people have highest gear atm... good logic.

It was relatively hard to obtain gear in 3.0 but then much easier in 4.0 which was best times for gearing and even field. You see that was progress, since 5.0 its only regress and maybe its time to end that and start moving forward instead.

 

Not a shooter indeed but many other MMOs have equal chances in pvp in fact most of them. See for yourself , just need to tone down on ignorance.

[Mantlers]

I personally find it good, that only the MM players get the good stuff, and I'm saying that as a SM player. I have no need for 258 gear, because I can play my content in 248 just fine, which you can easily get over the command stash.

 

I'm generally uncertain, if you can only get 258 with the mats out of MM from GotM, or if there are other options. And as it is said before, a casual player doesn't need 258.

 

I feel with the PvP community though (not being big on PvP myself), and don't understand the need for any MMO to not have different gear for PvP and PvE content. This way you really never have this issue.

 

However giving the mats through PvP is not the solution, because you can run as many warzones as you like, while there are only 5 bosses that you can kill every week. Which would actually favor the PvP players.

 

Yeah, I agree with you here. I'm not saying that its not a good thing for those who will play PvE and I appreciate that its something cool to strive for if thats how you want to play. I'm only suggesting that this is not a good system for gearing re. PvP for the aforementioned reasons (and others that people have provided in this thread).

 

And contrary to what a few have suggested, this is not about having a "free lunch". And to accept things blindly without considering all perspectives or challenging our developers when we feel the game could be improved is short-sighted.

 

If they introduced the changes for all the PvE'ers out there, and simply reverted to prior PvP gearing system (or remove gear requirement entirely) it would be more balanced.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Yeah dude as you say 2 people had full 248 out of what 16 ? That surely means we need new gear to grind when 10% of people have highest gear atm... good logic.

It was relatively hard to obtain gear in 3.0 but then much easier in 4.0 which was best times for gearing and even field. You see that was progress, since 5.0 its only regress and maybe its time to end that and start moving forward instead.

 

Not a shooter indeed but many other MMOs have equal chances in pvp in fact most of them. See for yourself , just need to tone down on ignorance.

 

How many months has 248 gear been out? Game is hard.

 

What excuse does a "pure pvp'er" have for not having full 240 augmented gear when fastest way to grind CMT's is pvp? Or, if you sold those CMT's, you could be stupidly rich.

 

This game has a little more depth than the shallow end of the pure pvp pool. One trick ponies get the short end of the stick.

 

You have 2 months to hoard UC's so you can gear as much as you can immediately.

 

Anyway, I'm all for bringing back expertise and 4.0 pvp gearing so you guys can go back to living in your little bubble universe.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[Salphidor]

Yeah, I agree with you here. I'm not saying that its not a good thing for those who will play PvE and I appreciate that its something cool to strive for if thats how you want to play. I'm only suggesting that this is not a good system for gearing re. PvP for the aforementioned reasons (and others that people have provided in this thread).

 

And contrary to what a few have suggested, this is not about having a "free lunch". And to accept things blindly without considering all perspectives or challenging our developers when we feel the game could be improved is short-sighted.

 

If they introduced the changes for all the PvE'ers out there, and simply reverted to prior PvP gearing system (or remove gear requirement entirely) it would be more balanced.

We are in agreement there. As I said, different gear for PvP and PvE, and obviously you need to play the right content to get the gear for it... and everyone is happy I.e. you don't need Accuracy for PvP, but have some other stat, that is very important. I think it was like this in this game once upon a time. It most certainly is like it in other games.

[Totemdancer]

Dear Keith + Bioware Team,

 

I implore you to consider implementing an alternative gearing system for the PvP community, to your proposed 252/258 gear. I'm going to keep the reasons why this hurts us (BADLY) in a concise list below:

 

1. Many PvPers don't do PvE. Obtaining the means to gear up through a PvE gearing system is forcing people to participate in an aspect of the game they may not enjoy in order to grind gear.

 

2. You are penalising the Casual player: The Data Crystals you mention are obtainable for "Casual" players by doing the weeklies on multiple characters and then transfer over the mods via legacy - will Casual players really have the time to do weeklies on multiple characters? And at an ever increasing cost of UC? This doesn't sound Casual to me. Believe it or not, some of us have jobs and families and lives outside of the game, playing recreationally in our spare time.

 

3. The Craft option: How about crafters that are PvPers? Are they now supposed to be able to jump into a Gods MM and to obtain mats? This isn't realistic for many (even hardcore PvE'ers struggle with this ops) and nor should you expect a PvP player to need to do PvE in order to get mats for crafting.

 

4. Market creation: This will create a hyper-inflated market for mats, held in the hands of the MM PvE community who will be able to charge whatever they want. At least with T-ranked, anyone can give it a go and still eventually be rewarded without too much complexity.

 

In summary, you've made it astoundingly difficult and not enjoyable for PvPers like myself and many others to obtain high end gear. Some of us are still trying to gear alts in 248....

 

There was nothing wrong with the old 204/208 system for PvP - it was in fact perfect and put everyone on the same level playing field. Take a look at what they're doing in GW2 where they essentially make skill and not gear, the focus for PvP. Thanks for listening.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Loyal + Casual PvP Player that is hanging in here all these years despite many bad decisions by Bioware.

 

The announced gearing system is going to harm the game. I can’t understand how they can not see all the negative affects it’s going to have.

I really hope they are reading the feed back and concerns and adjust how they intend to do this.