The "My Commander Won't Go Back To A Follower" Argument Debunked

[irrevelant]

If it were up to me, then a whole storyline would go about this. Depending on your choice you may, or may not become leader, but the chance is given with many possible road.

 

The possible paths, that can be taken:

 

1. Republic/Imperial victory. With going for leadership.

 

2. Coexistence in peace.

 

3. Rule both.

 

4. Conquer both.

 

Regardless of choice you would lose several followers.

1.: Requires lots of questing, and more extra quest to become Chancellor/Emperor. In the story you would help Republic/Imperial war effort, and gain favors from various leaders to help your claim, and deal with possible opposition. Minimal grinding, and the one way to avoid becoming a ruler. You can join, and make Malgus's empire win as well.

 

2. Requires one hell of a number of missions. You need to manipulate the leadership of the nations, and alter politics to create coexistence. Chance of losing Lana by making her Sith Empress. You cannot become a ruler yourself with this path.

 

3. This is a sneaky one. Lots of plotting, assassinations, and blackmailing while "standing neutral ground", and culling both leadership. The final goal is to become supreme chancellor, and Sith Emperor at the same time.

 

4. This one has only a small number of quest, but requires one hell of a grinding (50 influence on all 4 main advisor).

 

Another decision at start would be about Zakuul. After Nathema the Commander has doubt, if (s)he should rule that planet, and can decite how to deal with it.

 

Remain ruler of Zakuul.

 

Give it to the republic/empire.

 

Appoint a new ruler.

 

Alter the system into democracy, and have a Zakuulan elected. Can give a push for Koth, or Senya to win the election. You can try Arcann, but he will refuse.

[irrevelant]

By your logic.....

 

My Sith who defeated everything the Eternal Throne had to throw at them from Arcann to Vaylin to Valkorian and everything in between.

 

They ARE the strongest and no one currently on the Dark Council could possibly stand against them.

In a ideal scenario my Characters would land and demand the "Council" kneel, those that didn't would not survive the encounter.

 

Now that is not all my Sith, but it is the majority of them as they act like Sith.

 

For Sith main characters this would be absolutely acceptable solution. For non-sith Imperial characters this could work too, but none of the council members would kneel.

 

As extra i would make Acina try to get you into a marriage, and co-ruling, if you flirted with her, and she survived Iokath. Accepting her offer would avoid fighting the dark council.

 

However the Republic is not this simple. You need to win an election. Now thing is, that as such a great republic hero you have the chance to do it. What you would need is to make the media work for you. With force, favors, or credits.

[irrevelant]

This is a video game and by video game logic Player Character is an immortal all-powerful demigod who can beat all odds at any time for all eternity, because if the PC would die or lost a limb, imagine the outrage. People will grab and hold their power-fantasy as close to their heart as they possibly can and validate it by saying "we've survived and beat everything", like any other outcome would ever be possible for a MMO player character.

 

No that's the reality logic. By the video game logic you are very mortal, and you can die in-game. It is your determination, that gives your character the power to beat any foe, and play god. However by story they are not unbeatable. Just extremely strong by now. Also they were beaten a few times over the story. There are nice cuscenes when you fall down.

 

As an MP character killing the main character would surely cause an outrage. Though it's not entirely impossible to end the story like that. It wouldn't delete your character, but simply everyone would treat you as if you were before the final quest. However such act would end the story, and force the devs. to turn the game into maintenance mode with no new content. Though that might give room to make a new game.

[FlameYOL]

Doesn't the initial meeting in that back of a dingy bar kinda show how little respect you are going to receive? After all the battles my SW goes thru, when he decides to come back to the Empire he is met in a bar? Not even invited to meet directly with Acina in Kaas City? That turned my stomach. Same with my Jedi. That was just rude behavior and a disrespectful place to ask them to meet. Haven't played since.

 

To be honest a cantina in Nar Shaddaa might not be the fanciest place possible but it works really well for a secret meeting.

[Goreshaga]

To be honest a cantina in Nar Shaddaa might not be the fanciest place possible but it works really well for a secret meeting.

Especially for a saboteur actually as NS is neutral, and not affiliated with either the Empire or the Republic.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Without the eternal fleet, why do players think their Alliance faction is strong enough to become Sith Emperor, or Galactic Republic President?

[Paulsutherland]

Without the eternal fleet, why do players think their Alliance faction is strong enough to become Sith Emperor, or Galactic Republic President?

 

We still have Iokath. We can just rebuild the fleet.

[Goreshaga]

Without the eternal fleet, why do players think their Alliance faction is strong enough to become Sith Emperor, or Galactic Republic President?

I personnally don't care about becoming Emperor/ess, or Chancellor, I just want to rule my small part of the Galaxy, well which is Odessen (+ Iokath eventually). And i'd gladly let the Republic and Empire go against each other as long as i'm left alone.

 

But that's not an option, so as long as I can keep my Alliance and Odessen as a simple ally of the Republic but not fully part of it, so, as independant as possible, i' should be fine.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Goreshaga

[IoNonSoEVero]

Without the eternal fleet, why do players think their Alliance faction is strong enough to become Sith Emperor, or Galactic Republic President?

 

Without the Eternal Fleet, the Commander's Alliance was strong enough to defeat the people holding the Eternal Fleet, mostly through guerilla tactics. There's that. There's also the fact that the galaxy is supposed to be struggling through a resource crisis and was badly hurt by Zakuul, and the faction you opposed isn't supposed to be doing well with that.

 

I personnally don't care about becoming Emperor/ess, or Chancellor, I just want to rule my small part of the Galaxy, well which is Odessen (+ Iokath eventually). And i'd gladly let the Republic and Empire go against each other as long as i'm left alone.

 

But that's not an option, so as long as I can keep my Alliance and Odessen as a simple ally of the Republic but not fully part of it, so, as independant as possible, i' should be fine.

 

This is how my characters feel (and how I feel about it too). Some of my Commanders might feel obligated to help the Empire if they were in trouble, but for the most part they just want to be left alone and have no desire to be involved in the faction conflicts at all. They don't want to rule either the Empire or Republic, or both.

 

At the least I hope they can stay on Odessen with their Alliance in some form, but given that the game has already set up the premise of some companions leaving, I think that sadly that might not always be the case.

Edited February 21, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero

[ApollosNight]

First, to Ylliarus: you are probably one of the most level-headed folks I have read on these forums. You give me hope for humanity. My thanks

 

Second: I'm not sure how my Darth Nox would be in being removed from the position of enforceable peacekeeper (since that's basically what we were as Alliance Commander). Sure, he was Darth Nox: head of the pyramid of ancient knowledge, keeper of the secrets of the Dark Side, etc. But he wasn't a psychotic murder. He had principles. He had morals. There were lines he wouldn't cross. He hated the Republic and wanted to bring it to its knees, but he also recognized when it was time to set that aside for the greater cause, such as Revan and Zakuul. Becoming the Commander changed him, I think. Now, Nox has a responsibility to look at the galaxy as a whole, not just the Empire. He has to ask the big questions: who can he trust to help the galaxy? The Alliance may not be what it once was, but he still has influence. Who can he return to? Can he submit himself to taking orders? Can he lead people who used to follow the opposite faction into a war against their brothers and sisters?

 

I think he can. My Nox knows his place and understand that, sometimes, war is necessary. He also believes in the Empire. Not the current state of it, but in its ideals: the Dark Side, passion, and expression. He can lead, knowing he has done his job in defeating the Eternal Empire. Now, he takes up his lightsaber once more for the Empire, and while he will take no joy at killing those he once fought beside, he will show no mercy on the battlefield.

[Goreshaga]

Without the Eternal Fleet, the Commander's Alliance was strong enough to defeat the people holding the Eternal Fleet, mostly through guerilla tactics. There's that. There's also the fact that the galaxy is supposed to be struggling through a resource crisis and was badly hurt by Zakuul, and the faction you opposed isn't supposed to be doing well with that.

Pretty much this, the Alliance was strong enough to defeat both rulers of Zakuul who had the E.Fleet at their disposal, while they did not.

And they may not have the E.Fleet or the Gravestone anymore, but they technically still own the Imps and Pubs ships who came into the Alliance, and the people who may want to stay on Odessen as well, which is also the case for some companions such as Torian who calls Odessen his home and Lana who says Odessen feels like home.

 

 

This is how my characters feel (and how I feel about it too). Some of my Commanders might feel obligated to help the Empire if they were in trouble, but for the most part they just want to be left alone and have no desire to be involved in the faction conflicts at all. They don't want to rule either the Empire or Republic, or both.

 

At the least I hope they can stay on Odessen with their Alliance in some form, but given that the game has already set up the premise of some companions leaving, I think that sadly that might not always be the case.

Same here.

 

My JK (who is my canon Outlander), is willing to help the Republic because despite being a bit disapointed with it, she still thinks it's better than the Empire. But she would not want to go back in the Republic and even less go back to the Jedi Order as she feels she's done much more in a couple years with the Alliance than in decades with the Jedi and the Republic.

 

I really hope we can keep the Alliance, loosing some of the companions was really sad, i think the worst for me was Talos, he's so sweet and passionate about everything, i'll really miss him in my Alliance.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Goreshaga

[IoNonSoEVero]

Pretty much this, the Alliance was strong enough to defeat both rulers of Zakuul wha had the E.Fleet at their disposal, while they did not.

And they may not have the E.Fleet or the Gravestone anymore, but they technically still own the Imps and Pubs ships who came into the Alliance, and the people whant may want to atay on Odessen as well, which is also the case for some companions such as Torian who calls Odessen his home and Lana who says Odessen feels like home.

 

Yeah, exactly - I would think that there are a lot in the Alliance who are disillusioned or have moved on from their previous factions and have no desire to go back. I remember Lana also saying she never wants to return to Dromund Kaas, Aric Jorgan left because he was angry about the Republic's non-action, and there are others who seem to be far more at home on Odessen.

 

My JK (who is my canon Outlander), is willing to help the Republic because despite being a bit disapointed with it, she still thinks it's better than the Empire. But she would not want to go back in the Republic and even less go back to the Jedi Order as she feels she's done much more in a couple years with the Alliance than in decades with the Jedi and the Republic.

 

I really hope we can keep the Alliance, loosing some of the companions was really sad, i think the worst for me was Talos, he's so sweet and passionate about everything, i'll really miss him in my Alliance.

 

Yeah, my Jedi would airlock themselves before returning to the Jedi order. It's not who they are or what they want. My Sith would support the Empire but they have no desire to return to all the tiresome politics. My bounty hunter and smuggler couldn't care less and don't want to be in anyone's faction wars. It's such a mess.

 

Some of those companion letters really hurt. The worst part for me is that even if your character is a saboteur, they still lose those companions from the "opposite faction." What's going to happen when or if it's discovered they are a saboteur, are they going to lose the companions from their old faction who stayed and essentially have almost nobody left? It seemed like they were trying to punish anyone who wanted to switch factions so I wonder.

Edited February 21, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero

[Goreshaga]

Yeah, exactly - I would think that there are a lot in the Alliance who are disillusioned or have moved on from their previous factions and have no desire to go back. I remember Lana also saying she never wants to return to Dromund Kaas, Aric Jorgan left because he was angry about the Republic's non-action, and there are others who seem to be far more at home on Odessen.

That's how i see it too.

I'd say that those who joined the Alliance in the first place were not the most diehard loyalists and clearly the least extrem in their beliefs, else it would never have worked in the end.

So some of them being disappointed with their original faction and feeling home in the Alliance and on Odessen, is probably not too much of a strech. Then some of them may have formed bonds (like becoming friends or even falling in love) with other people from the opposite faction, so for them, the Alliance would be the only place were they could stay together and not have to fight and maybe kill each other.

 

 

Yeah, my Jedi would airlock themselves before returning to the Jedi order. It's not who they are or what they want. My Sith would support the Empire but they have no desire to return to all the tiresome politics. My bounty hunter and smuggler couldn't care less and don't want to be in anyone's faction wars. It's such a mess.

 

Some of those companion letters really hurt. The worst part for me is that even if your character is a saboteur, they still lose those companions from the "opposite faction." What's going to happen when or if it's discovered they are a saboteur, are they going to lose the companions from their old faction who stayed and essentially have almost nobody left? It seemed like they were trying to punish anyone who wanted to switch factions so I wonder.

Quite the same, my JK doesn't identify as a Jedi anymore, that's not who she is now, she became friend with a Sith (well, more than one, as she was quite on good terms with Scourge as well), formed a brother-sister kind of relationship with a former tyrant and fell in love with a spy, so going back to the Jedi life, and having to fight against people who worked with her, who she trusted and respected, is not an option for her.

 

I wonder about that as well, will the ones who left believing you were loyal return once the truth is known or will everybody leave you in the end, and you'll be on your own ?

And what about some romances ? How will they be affected, because i can't see some LIs being very happy with a lover turning saboteur, like Jorgan or Theron with pub saboteurs, they may both be disappointed with the Republic, but i don't think being with a saboteur will be all that great for them, especially if the PC doesn't tell them about their true allegiance.

Lana's a bit different as she's so far the only one who knows, but i can't really see her being all that happy with an imp saboteur or a pub loyalist in the long run. Even if she said she'd follow their lead, she did not sound really happy when the PC sides with the Republic and it's pretty obvious she'd have been happier if they decided to support the Empire instead.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Goreshaga

[OldVengeance]

Pretty much this, the Alliance was strong enough to defeat both rulers of Zakuul wha had the E.Fleet at their disposal, while they did not.

And they may not have the E.Fleet or the Gravestone anymore, but they technically still own the Imps and Pubs ships who came into the Alliance, and the people whant may want to atay on Odessen as well, which is also the case for some companions such as Torian who calls Odessen his home and Lana who says Odessen feels like home.

 

The Alliance wasn't strong enough to defeat the Eternal Empire with brute force.

 

After the fleet and the Gravestone were destroyed, many of the people who joined the Alliance returned back to their old factions. It seems unlikely they left the ships behind.

 

Plus, if the Alliance didn't pick a side, they may end up having to fight both in the coming conflict.

Edited February 21, 2019 by OldVengeance

[IoNonSoEVero]

That's how i see it too.

I'd say that those who joined the Alliance in the first place were not the most diehard loyalists and clearly the least extrem in their beliefs, else it would never have worked in the end.

So some of them being disappointed with their original faction and feeling home in the Alliance and on Odessen, is probably not too much of a strech. Then some of them may have formed bonds (like becoming friends or even falling in love) with other people from the opposite faction, so for them, the Alliance would be the only place were they could stay together and not have to fight and maybe kill each other.

 

Yes. If they were smart they could frame the Alliance as a sanctuary for misfits, because that's essentially what it is. People who are happier outside of their faction or homeworld and enjoy working together for a common cause. After being allies for years on Odessen it's not quite so easy to go back to fighting each other.

 

 

I wonder about that as well, will the ones who left believing you were loyal return once the truth is known or will everybody leave you in the end, and you'll be on your own ?

 

That's my fear. I feel like those companions will react worse, too, because they might feel as though you lied and betrayed them by secretly supporting the other side.

 

And what about some romances ? How will they be affected, because i can't see some LIs being very happy with a lover turning saboteur, like Jorgan or Theron with pub saboteurs, they may both be disappointed with the Republic, but i don't think being with a saboteur will be all that great for them, especially if the PC doesn't tell them about their true allegiance.

 

This is what I worry about, too. I feel like there are some romances where the LI truly won't care (like Vette, Risha, Vector and Andronikos IMHO) but others where it could end the relationship. You can't even trigger a romance with LS Jaesa if you kill Gnost-Dural which makes me think even more that one's actions will have an impact on the other romances in the future.

 

As for Lana, I agree. Even though she said she would support a Commander anywhere, I think she will have a breaking point as to the aggression she will tolerate against Imperials. She's not happy if you side Republic on either Iokath or 5.10 and I can't see her approving of a commander who tries to slaughter Sith or her old home planet.

 

On the other side, I also think Theron might have a breaking point as to how much violence he will tolerate against the Republic. Particularly if they write Satele Shan back into the story. He may have already fought his father on Iokath and I can't see him wanting to do that again with Satele. He is very unhappy if you kill Gnost-Dural and I think if you kill enough of his old friends/colleagues in the Republic he will have had it.

 

I also think that those KOTFE cross-faction romances could prompt anger from other characters. Since the Jedi hate the Sith so much, they might not take kindly to a commander who is married to a Sith. Imperials might not be amused by a commander who is married to an SIS spy who did a lot of damage to the Empire. And I think both factions would have the pitchforks out for a commander married to Arcann. Koth seems like he's safest, but Zakuulans in general seem to be unpopular in the galaxy ATM, so that could cause controversy too.