The "My Commander Won't Go Back To A Follower" Argument Debunked

[Dracofish]

There is no Alliance anymore, no fleet, no nothing except a bunch of soldiers, jedi, sith, that came to defeat Zakuul.

 

And while some maybe awed with your power and stay, most of those soldiers, Jedi, Sith are going to go home. They have nothing in the area to tie them to the place. Soldiers want to go home after the victory not stay and start another round of fighting, Just ask Patton.

 

Zakuul even told you off. They aren't scared of the alliance without the fleet and the gravestone. So I guess you could go and conquer them with ........ the remaining people that stay

 

There are other things that BioWare is hoping we'll forget about. They're handwaving away Zakuul and un-named members of the Alliance...but what about all of the droid factories we control? That manufacture droids. To become assets. For us to control. What about our partnership with Shae and the Mandalorians? Torian is sticking with us, so...I don't think he's just going to turn his back on his people. Also, the entire Eternal Fleet was not swirling around Odessen when Gravedrog hit...so....what about the ships that were elsewhere? I guess the throne blowing up might have ended that, but seriously, what happened to the ships? And we do have our own Alliance fleet...not to mention an entire little planet called Iokath...where we could make more ships.

 

I feel like I need to find that gif from Wayne's World where they're just going "duh-duh-doop!" to rewind everything that happened.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Dracofish

[Estelindis]

Tbh before KotET was released I expected we'd have a companion sit on the Eternal Throne instead of us. I was convinced Senya would have been a major candidate to become Empress of Zakuul. So I really like what you're saying, it would have been extremely interesting if we could seat a companion on the Eternal Throne. In that scenario the writers wouldn't have written themselves into a corner I believe. We could have been second in command or the closest advisor, I would have preferred such a take on the plot.

That would have been amazing. If one has to be strong in the Force to sit on the throne, yes, Lana or Senya could have easily handled it.

I'm glad that you both like this idea! Some people get outraged at any prospect of "playing second fiddle" to a companion, but actually I think that the renunciation of a particular role or position in favour of a subordinate shows real leadership qualities of maturity, courage, and lack of insecurity.

 

I don't know if one needed to be strong in the Force to sit on it. Clearly the PC can, regardless of whether they're a force-user or not. But at the time of first sitting there, they have Valkorion with them, so it's not exactly a normal case. (Still, even post-Valkorion, they're seemingly able to maintain control, so maybe only a strong will is needed.)

 

I always thought that Valkorion used that moment to grab your body because you'd fulfilled your role to him, but also because the energy from the throne gave him enough strength to do so, combined with your PC being stunned from the shock. If Lana or Senya had taken the throne instead, he would have been out of luck, and the next mission could have been the quest to find whatever relics would rid the PC of Valkorion in their head, like Zash's ritual with the mind trap.

Yes, I'm not 100% sure on exactly why taking the throne was the key moment, only that he seemed very intent on it. Maybe as you suggest it was the energy from the throne, whether as a power source or something disrupting/distracting the PC. I suppose I've imagined something similar, though more in terms of the throne being an instrument of domination (it controls the fleet). Valkorion, from his intimate knowledge of it over the centuries, is able to turn it against us when we sit on it. It's possible of course that neither of us is right. If we look at the big story explanation post from Charles, maybe what Valkorion most wanted was the symbolism of the PC sitting on the throne. He wanted to take control at the PC's iconic moment of victory and enjoy "commanding a newly-reshaped galaxy as a heroic liberator - an all-new experience to try out." If that's true, maybe he could've taken contol even if a companion sat on the throne - it just would've been less than ideal. He could've killed them and pretended it turned out like he wanted. Less satisfactory, but whatever. If he could've taken control even if we didn't sit on the throne, at least that would've given us an opportunity to roleplay as something other than a complete idiot, while still propelling the story forwards in the same direction.

 

(Incidentally, isn't it skin-crawling to imagine a timeline in which he successfully wore the PC's body and pretended to be them? What would've happened with our LIs? Yuck.)

Edited October 22, 2018 by Estelindis

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Ya know I was thinking about some of the posts we have been seeing about people saying that just because they were this Alliance Commander which is a purely military rank, and you were essentially the leader or a partisan resistance group [which any one fighting in a military conflict not in a recognizable military uniform is considered and by the laws of War is criminal] that they would never go back because they can't rule the Universe now heh.

Sure, sometimes generals do become Presidents, but the other 99.9% of them, never do, not even Senators.

It isn't about rights, or fairness, or even making sense, it's about just wanting to play Emperor of the playground.

Even still, I am open to possibilities for a 3rd faction and I do care about the feelings of other players on this issue, even though I hate the whole thing, I want to see if everyone could have some of what they want because happy players make for better games.

 

To me that's a very silly sounding reason, you were in charge of a defeated Zakuul, and u were in that position for about maybe 15 or 16 minutes total. So unless 16 minutes has some how ruined you for life to be anything other than a ruler of an Empire, no matter how demolishedly broken it may be, I find that argument not much short of, really ,you just want to play Emperor. To be fair though, that's you're right, you are allowed to want to play an Emperor for any reason, just like I'm allowed to think that that is a circumstance for a player character in an MMO that is untenible to any on going storylines unless ever single player in the game feels the same exact way. So we need to be able to accomodate not only thoise who would want to stay and rule Zakuul but also those who hold are very different opinion on what becomes of Zakuul and it's people and want to go home because they are still loyal to their homelands and peoples and don't hate their loved ones and families for no reason whatsoever - i.e.

 

The only thing my charatcer wants to do with regard to Zakuul is enslave it's peoples, annex it's territories, exploit it's resources, turn Zakuul and Oddessson into asteroid fields to serve as examples as what happens to those who think the Empire lets people so much as look at it cross-eyed, let alone actually attack it.

There is no way he would grant them freedom. There is no way he wouldn't cull the population in half immediately, there is no way he wouldn't annex most of it's territory into the Empire, there is no way he wouldn't exploit it's resources and peoples and most of all, he wouldn't let them so much as own a blaster rifle with no ammo, than allow them a military.

 

 

Thing is, world leaders, they never fight in wars, they never go on commando missions, they never engaging in combat of any kind, they are not even allowed to walk around armed. So that got me thinking.,..

 

If some big wig governmental guy showed up and said for whatever nonsensical reason that they wanted me to become the President of the United States, would I accept the job.

 

No, I wouldn't, because, I don't want to have to do all the stupid beuracratic crap Presidents have to do. That means I can't play SWTOR anymore, I can't walk to the corner for smokes, I can't ever have a call girl, I can't go to the **** store, I can't go out my friends to amovie, to a Bar, to a club, I can't even drive my own car.

 

I would hate all the day to day details and annoyances that came with it. My own take on it [don't have to read this, just why I would hate it. Feel free to skip it.

 

 

It also means, I have to go to make 7000 speeches to audiences filled with people who couldn't give less of a rat's *** about anything I'm saying, and on top of that, I would have to lie to the American people 9 gazillion times thruout my Presidency. I had to hob nob with people who normally I would much rather punch in their guy, than say a kind word to, stuffy old rich people who I have to be nice to because the Press Secretary tells me I need to give a Rat's *** about him and whatever stupid *** group he represents, meet foriegn dignitaries who don't understand one word I say, and I have to shake their hand for 17 minute straight smiling like a ******* for all the press photographers. I also have to go to board meetings that cover about 9000 different topics that I couldn't possibly care less about.

 

I'd have pretend I care about Farmers rights, poltical parties, she/he-male marriage laws, illegal immigrants [as well as legal ones] , tax issues that effect Rich people, religius euaility laws while I'm ignostic, anything to do with taxiation, politics, 3rd World Coutries, Human Rights Issues [for those people I don't think should have them anymore], the foriegn press, and the right of countries I would much prefer to see engulfed by 19 nukes I personally ordered to rain down on them and to turn them into uninhabitable sheets of glass ruined for the next 100 years due to the effects of Nucleur Winter.

 

Ohh yeah, my next day off, is in 4 years.

 

No thank you.

I like ****, I like playing SWTOR, I like hitting on chicks who's asses I like and some who have asses even I don't like cuz I'm a dog, I like being able to hit people who piss me off, I like feeling free to break some stupid laws, I like being able to tell people who have strong religious beliefs and who insist on trying to tell me I'm wrong and the only path to salvation is to X,Y,Z to **** before I smack the taste out of their mouth, to have as the only limitation to my time spent with call girls be determined by how much money I have to spare, and most of all, I like to be able to feel free to curse 24/7.

 

 

So, no, I don't want to be Emperor over a people I despise and want only to enslave, exploit and kill, especially when as far as I am concerned, Zakuul and all it's peoples and territories and resources no longer belong to them, they are now the spoils of war and personal property of the only Empire that matters. The Sith Empire.

How the Zakuulian people feel about that matters to me only in so far as I hope they hate it. Paybacks a *****, and I was in Ice in for 5 years, so bend over guys, here comes my thanks

 

Regarding it's viability as a 3rd faction and respecting the rights of all players that are the ones in the position to most directly effect it's future development, for good or ill, because some wish it gone and destroyed and others want to 'rule it'. The story line must be able to apply equally to very different ideas and priorities the players hold.

 

Some thoughts on that if interested -

 

I am sympathic to those who want to rule Zakuul and have a 3rd faction option [which shocks the hell out of me personally because I hate the whole concept heh] but we must recognize that general storyline is coming to an end, and being taken in a different, more traditional direction after 2 and a half years of it being the spotlight. I don't feel it should be the main concern, but, that doesn't mean it can't have some place in the scheme of things, within reason. It is broken, it is defeated, it is conquered, it has no power. So I feel we should try and find a compromise that is realistic in that there are very different ideas the players have about it and some of them are extremely and diametrically opposed to one another. As a 3rd option, all things considered do to storyline elements, it cannot be strong, and it cannot fight in a war. As a neutral power on the mend after being decimated in a war and using that time while the other two powers go at each other, is really the only realistic and reasonable way for it to be a viable 3rd faction. It's weak as hell, it has no power, the Salvation Army could kick it's ***. - But I do think we should try at least for the sake of those it matters to.

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[asiasusanna]

Lot of good arguments here, but overall nothing is debunked IMO. Considering the Alliance Commander (even more so if force user) is physically and spiritually OP as hell by having defeated Valkorion and reinforcing his/her force connection through him, having absorbed (part of) Vaylin's power and spirit (mentioned by Arcann). Even before KOTFE/KOTET the main character was arguably if not the strongest - one of the strongest person in their respective factions. So why would he/she go back and bend the knee before some self-appointed leader. While it may be logical for trooper or some LS Jedi, it seems weird for some self-centered Sith Lord or DS Jedi for example.

 

Not that I am against Rep vs Imp, but i dont like the idea that as the most powerful creature in the galaxy ATM, I will once again be some servant lol...

 

Problem is that the writers wrote themselves into a corner. You simply cannot go further up than we have already, so at this point all we can do is roll down.

 

I think that whoever was writing KotET did it with the mentality that it's gonna be the final expansion for the game. Everything afterwards was damage control, and not a good one at that. This upcoming one is gonna be even more of the same.

 

But in the mean time, we should not be starting wars with each other- we're a community that loves playing the same game- being harmful to each other only helps the studio because we're blaming each other instead of them. And even then we should not throw gasoline over BW before we see the new content.

 

Anyway, good luck and happy hunting.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I'm glad that you both like this idea! Some people get outraged at any prospect of "playing second fiddle" to a companion, but actually I think that the renunciation of a particular role or position in favour of a subordinate shows real leadership qualities of maturity, courage, and lack of insecurity.

 

Yes, I think it's fine to cede the top spot to someone you feel is more capable or would be a better fit. I think people might have liked KOTFE/ET more if they'd been in a position like Lana or Theron, ie, working for a universal Commander. Someone mentioned Satele or Marr in another thread, or both of them.

 

Yes, I'm not 100% sure on exactly why taking the throne was the key moment, only that he seemed very intent on it. Maybe as you suggest it was the energy from the throne, whether as a power source or something disrupting/distracting the PC. I suppose I've imagined something similar, though more in terms of the throne being an instrument of domination (it controls the fleet). Valkorion, from his intimate knowledge of it over the centuries, is able to turn it against us when we sit on it. It's possible of course that neither of us is right. If we look at the big story explanation post from Charles, maybe what Valkorion most wanted was the symbolism of the PC sitting on the throne. He wanted to take control at the PC's iconic moment of victory and enjoy "commanding a newly-reshaped galaxy as a heroic liberator - an all-new experience to try out." If that's true, maybe he could've taken contol even if a companion sat on the throne - it just would've been less than ideal. He could've killed them and pretended it turned out like he wanted. Less satisfactory, but whatever. If he could've taken control even if we didn't sit on the throne, at least that would've given us an opportunity to roleplay as something other than a complete idiot, while still propelling the story forwards in the same direction.

 

I think all of this could be true, too. He clearly wanted to see the PC on the throne and have that moment. But I feel like Valkorion was too weak to body-hop again (Vaylin says something along those lines. The PC can tell her that killing Valkorion won't stop him, and she replies that he's now too weak to find a new host). So I think he did need the boost from the power behind the throne, as well as the PC being a bit out of it, to jump in. During the story he can't force you to use his power unless you actively allow it, and considering how annoyed he gets about that, it seems like he would have forced you if he could have.

 

I've also heard, although I have never tried this out, that if you accept Valkorion's power twice (you have IIRC four chances - in carbonite, with Heskel, in the swamp and with Arcann), that he will be able to force you to use it, whether you want to or not, against Arcann. So maybe that 'permission' is chiseling away little by little at the PC's control over their own body and soul, if they actively let Valkorion take over even for a moment.

 

(Incidentally, isn't it skin-crawling to imagine a timeline in which he successfully wore the PC's body and pretended to be them? What would've happened with our LIs? Yuck.)

 

Oh lord, yes. I feel at least some of the LIs would have gotten it right away, but that with the Commander dead, Valkorion on the throne and Zakuul behind them, it would have been game over. I feel like Valkorion would have tried to use our LIs and the PC's body to have more Force-sensitive offspring to torture, which in itself is a horrifying thought.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Problem is that the writers wrote themselves into a corner. You simply cannot go further up than we have already, so at this point all we can do is roll down.

 

I think that whoever was writing KotET did it with the mentality that it's gonna be the final expansion for the game. Everything afterwards was damage control, and not a good one at that. This upcoming one is gonna be even more of the same.

 

But in the mean time, we should not be starting wars with each other- we're a community that loves playing the same game- being harmful to each other only helps the studio because we're blaming each other instead of them. And even then we should not throw gasoline over BW before we see the new content.

 

Anyway, good luck and happy hunting.

 

I think you right. I don't know exactly why the writter felt so sure the game was ending so it wouldn't matter, but the notion that anyone could think that the game would go on like that, and never go back to traditional Star Wars and people would be okay with that, I find mind-boogling.

 

If they had said than, that it was going to stay the dumb Eternal Thrones storyline Universe from than on when it started, I would have quit the game that very second.

 

I'm open to trying to find ways for everyone to be happy, but that can't happen if in order for that to happen some players must have their characters act in ways they never would, support ideas they despise, or let a defeated enemy recover and become a threat again right in front of them and do nothing about it.

 

I'm open to the 3rd faction idea, but, I can't support an idea that would force me to allow my enemy to keep it's independence and allow it is a military that they were able to rebuild because apparently I was the only person who realized why when wars end Occupation forces are left there for years after the wars end, and are ruled by military governments from the occupying force who have total control of the food supply, and don't allow them autonomous control of themselves or industries capable of producing military equipment and armaments in any amount.

 

Zakuul only survives as a weak neutral 3rd party, When you can't even beat the Salvation army in a fight, you don't ally with others and intentionally go to war. Not if you want to survive for more than 15 minutes anyways heh

 

Storyline needs to find ways to accommodate very drastic and different points of view, or I can't really see how it could work out, even though I'm open to the suggestion.

Edited October 22, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[asiasusanna]

I think you right. I don't know exactly why the writter felt so sure the game was ending so it wouldn't matter, but the notion that anyone could think that the game would go on like that, and never go back to traditional Star Wars and people would be okay with that, I find mind-boogling.

 

If they had said than, that it was going to stay the dumb Eternal Thrones storyline Universe from than on when it started, I would have quit the game that very second.

 

I'm open to trying to find ways for everyone to be happy, but that can't happen if in order for that to happen some players must have their characters act in ways they never would, support ideas they despise, or let a defeated enemy recover and become a threat again right in front of them and do nothing about it.

 

I'm open to the 3rd faction idea, but, I can't support an idea that would force me to allow my enemy to keep it's independence and allow it is a military that they were able to rebuild because apparently I was the only person who realized why when wars end Occupation forces are left there for years after the wars end, and are ruled by military governments from the occupying force who have total control of the food supply, and don't allow them autonomous control of themselves or industries capable of producing military equipment and armaments in any amount.

 

Zakuul only survives as a weak neutral 3rd party, When you can't even beat the Salvation army in a fight, you don't ally with others and intentionally go to war. Not if you want to survive for more than 15 minutes anyways heh

 

Storyline needs to find ways to accommodate very drastic and different points of view, or I can't really see how it could work out, even though I'm open to the suggestion.

 

I suggested (as a joke mind you) that they create 5 different stories, with the big changes being in Force users vs NFU (as in depending on what your toon is, the story flow is drastically different). Force users wage the "traditional" war, while NFU PARTICIPATE in it but it isn't their main focus. A 5th story would be the neutral, criminal faction for those who don't wanna be tied down on their NFUs, while the Imperial/Republic ones wage war AND try to take down the criminal faction. This would make the expansion very repayable since you have more perspectives and stories to see, and they all can interconnect in one way or another to ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE OTHER CLASSES EXIST. It would satisfy the traditionalists and the neutral faction players.

 

Of course, this is just my opinion, I'm not saying it like it's a fact, and you're all free to comment on it or just straight up say that it's trash. All I wanna do is move this conversation to a more... Positive direction, where our creative juices can flow.

 

Good luck and happy hunting

[Goreshaga]

I'm open to trying to find ways for everyone to be happy, but that can't happen if in order for that to happen some players must have their characters act in ways they never would, support ideas they despise, or let a defeated enemy recover and become a threat again right in front of them and do nothing about it.

The problem is that if everyone is forced back in the exact same position they were in before KOTFE as if it never happened, it will obviously force some characters to act out of their ways.

 

Seriously, a Jedi who followed both Marr and Satele and views the Force differently now than other Jedi, and who is going to get married just can't be a Jedi anymore, that would be so off, even if said Jedi is mostly LS and really care about helping people.

[Swingkittie]

The problem is that if everyone is forced back in the exact same position they were in before KOTFE as if it never happened, it will obviously force some characters to act out of their ways.

 

Seriously, a Jedi who followed both Marr and Satele and views the Force differently now than other Jedi, and who is going to get married just can't be a Jedi anymore, that would be so off, even if said Jedi is mostly LS and really care about helping people.

 

Especially when said Jedi is marrying the son of the Grand Master of the Jedi Order who hid her pregnancy from them. And that Jedi already broke the rules when she married Doc. (yeah that's me).

[Goreshaga]

Especially when said Jedi is marrying the son of the Grand Master of the Jedi Order who hid her pregnancy from them. And that Jedi already broke the rules when she married Doc. (yeah that's me).

Well, yours is worse than mine then, she never let Doc touch her.

Theron on the other hand

 

Funny thing is that while she always rejected Doc, he still asked her to marry him, which she refused as well.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Well, yours is worse than mine then, she never let Doc touch her.

Theron on the other hand

 

Funny thing is that while she always rejected Doc, he still asked her to marry him, which she refused as well.

 

LOL same, my Jedi would have cheerfully thrown Doc out the airlock, and he just wouldn't let up no matter how many times she turned him down.

 

But she's marrying a Sith (Lana) so that's a whole 'nother level of scandal, I suppose.

[IzumiCurtis]

My JK who I have taken through all of the story up to and including Nathema is pretty much '...Can I go home now?' and wants to go back to the Republic and let someone else have the headache of dealing with things for a change. Time to try to squeeze in a vacation before the next crisis.

 

My SI, on the other hand, is pissed because dammit, his Throne! His Empire! (After everything he went through to claim the Throne, he's of the opinion of damn right he's ruling.) So he'd be grumpy about returning to the Sith Empire, although willing to work with Acina since they've worked well together. But if he's working with her, it'll be as an equal, thank you, not serving. He served a ruler of the Empire before and look at how that turned out.

 

Once I take my Trooper through Iokath on, she'll probably be of a similar opinion to the JK.

 

So that's one out of three so far who would be happier with staying his own faction instead of merging back in. And this is why new direction is making me twitch a little although I'm withholding full judgement until I've played through things. Because some toons will be happy enough to pick a side while others are 'No thank you, I'd rather be my own side. Yes, I'll work with a side if needed but I'm done toeing someone else's line.'

[Swingkittie]

Well, yours is worse than mine then, she never let Doc touch her.

Theron on the other hand

 

Funny thing is that while she always rejected Doc, he still asked her to marry him, which she refused as well.

 

I always liked Doc. But Theron's a better kisser. Besides Theron's personality and my Jedi are a good match.

 

Oh and one other thing...It's hard to go back to the rigid rules of the Jedi since there is no way our characters can keep this a secret. Especially after announcing a galaxy wide message that she loves Theron after Umbara. I wonder if Doc heard that? lol

[Goreshaga]

I always liked Doc. But Theron's a better kisser. Besides Theron's personality and my Jedi are a good match.

 

Oh and one other thing...It's hard to go back to the rigid rules of the Jedi since there is no way our characters can keep this a secret. Especially after announcing a galaxy wide message that she loves Theron after Umbara. I wonder if Doc heard that? lol

Well Doc's is clearly not a good match for my JK as all he manages to do is give her some urge to punch him, their dynamic is somewhat funny and shows a different side of her own personnality, which is not very Jedi like. It shows sometimes like on Alderaan when she told Nefarid to target himself.

 

Theron is a much better fit for her.

 

And yeah considering she said in her galaxy-wide broadcast that she loved him, that would be weird for the Jedi to want her back, unless they order her to end that relationship, which is not happening for me. There's no way she'll give up on her stupid spy boyfriend.

[Fallensouls]

You know I thought about how Bioware/ EA is again forcing us to go in a direction that some of us dont want and others do. Regardless of how everyone feels we are all being taken advantage of by EA. We spend our hard earned money expecting to get a great story and fun things to play. But EA does not spend the money it takes to really have a great experience for the players of this game. They wont spend money like other MMO's do because they dont care. There are three or 4 really big MMO's and even some smaller ones that get expansions all the time and most of them are really good. We got a update called Nathema that was rushed , plot hole filled and didnt make much sense. EA is taking advantage of us because we love star wars. If they are not willing to put money in this game to make it a good experience why are we all paying them? Why do we constantly sub to get inferior expansions compared to other MMO's? I think we all need to make a statement so we are heard. Because they wont listen to our petitions for better expansions, for bugs to be fixed etc etc.The only way to get thru to them is in their pockets. I am tired of half arse expansions and bug fixes etc. Here we are worrying if they have enough money for a third faction.That is utterly ridiculous, if they cant afford to do stuff in this game it is because they ran off players by mismanagement of this game just like Warhammer. If they cant put money back into this to give us a top notch story and fun missions why Am i paying for it? Edited October 23, 2018 by Fallensouls

[Ylliarus]

You know I thought about how Bioware/ EA is again forcing us to go in a direction that some of us dont want and others do. Regardless of how everyone feels we are all being taken advantage of by EA. We spend our hard earned money expecting to get a great story and fun things to play. But EA does not spend the money it takes to really have a great experience for the players of this game. They wont spend money like other MMO's do because they dont care. There are three or 4 really big MMO's and even some smaller ones that get expansions all the time and most of them are really good. We got a update called Nathema that was rushed , plot hole filled and didnt make much sense. EA is taking advantage of us because we love star wars. If they are not willing to put money in this game to make it a good experience why are we all paying them? Why do we constantly sub to get inferior expansions compared to other MMO's? I think we all need to make a statement so we are heard. Because they wont listen to our petitions for better expansions, for bugs to be fixed etc etc.The only way to get thru to them is in their pockets. I am tired of half arse expansions and bug fixes etc. Here we are worrying if they have enough money for a third faction.That is utterly ridiculous, if they cant afford to do stuff in this game it is because they ran off players by mismanagement of this game just like Warhammer. If they cant put money back into this to give us a top notch story and fun missions why Am i paying for it?

 

As long as SWTOR makes money, it won't be shut down. The moment the game doesn't make money anymore EA is going to pull the plug, trust me on that one. Boycotting the game by stopping subs or no longer buying Cartel Coins will only accomplish one thing and one thing only: the shutdown of SWTOR and the death of the game that we all here love so much.

 

How then can we accomplish anything as fans and players of this game? Dialogue, we need to keep the devs on their toes through dialogue with them. We need to keep reaching out to them, voice our concerns and share our feedback with them. Not only on the forums, but over Twitter and Reddit as well. We need to keep in touch with the Bioware Influencers such as Swtorista or Kid Lee, who stand in direct contact with the developers of the game.

 

Resorting to heavy measures such as boycotts is going to invoke exactly the opposite effect of what we'd want. By engaging in meaningful dialogue with the developers we can slowly turn around things. Will the effect be instantaneous? No, and you can never expect to get immediate results in such endeavours. Such things take time and patience, persistence even. If we all sit down and say "the devs won't listen anyway", yeah, then we'll achieve nothing. In the words of Kreia herself: apathy is death, worse than death.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Ylliarus

[TyonYlle]

Resorting to heavy measures such as boycotts is going to invoke exactly the opposite effect of what we'd want.

Besides, when has boycotts ever been successful? I think the Amazon drama a while back, and the Amazon boycott proves they're utter BS.

[Ylliarus]

Besides, when has boycotts ever been successful? I think the Amazon drama a while back, and the Amazon boycott proves they're utter BS.

 

Exactly! Boycotting the very reason why SWTOR is still afloat, namely the fact that it is making money, will backfire severely on the playerbase. It's why I'd really urge people not to call for boycotts, as those will end the thing we love so much and want to keep playing.

[Dracofish]

I think a moderately sized portion of the population continues to pay for the game despite being unhappy with it is out of attachment for their characters. If I didn't have an original character (actually I have three that really stand out) I've nurtured and grown to love from level one, who is also the star of a 140,000+ fanfic, I would have cancelled a long time ago. I continue to pay, because I continue to write her story.

 

And no, boycotts don't work. But...airing our concerns doesn't either (sadly). It's pretty obvious by now that the game is on autopilot because BioWare/EA is putting all of it's eggs into Anthem.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I think a moderately sized portion of the population continues to pay for the game despite being unhappy with it is out of attachment for their characters. If I didn't have an original character (actually I have three that really stand out) I've nurtured and grown to love from level one, who is also the star of a 140,000+ fanfic, I would have cancelled a long time ago. I continue to pay, because I continue to write her story.

 

And no, boycotts don't work. But...airing our concerns doesn't either (sadly). It's pretty obvious by now that the game is on autopilot because BioWare/EA is putting all of it's eggs into Anthem.

 

I think this is the sad truth. This year the game has given me about an hour of new content in the form of Nathema. I'm getting very little from it. I kept the sub going over the summer because of the Rishi stronghold (which they did seem to listen to the players on, with the addition of the apartment).

 

But other than that, all I do is log in, play a few heroics or go through other content I've been through a hundred times before, and log out. I'm so bored I've fallen asleep playing the game. But I have kept subbing in the hopes that there's more coming, because of the annoyances (like the credit cap) that come with not being subscribed, and because I've grown fond of the characters I've created.

 

I'm at the crossroads of deciding what to do, because the new content is not anything I have any desire to play, so the question becomes if I'm willing to keep spending money on something I'm doing very little with.

[Fallensouls]

I think this is the sad truth. This year the game has given me about an hour of new content in the form of Nathema. I'm getting very little from it. I kept the sub going over the summer because of the Rishi stronghold (which they did seem to listen to the players on, with the addition of the apartment).

 

But other than that, all I do is log in, play a few heroics or go through other content I've been through a hundred times before, and log out. I'm so bored I've fallen asleep playing the game. But I have kept subbing in the hopes that there's more coming, because of the annoyances (like the credit cap) that come with not being subscribed, and because I've grown fond of the characters I've created.

 

I'm at the crossroads of deciding what to do, because the new content is not anything I have any desire to play, so the question becomes if I'm willing to keep spending money on something I'm doing very little with.

 

I feel the same way so does most of my guild. They dont invest back in to the game and expect players to keep subbing. As a preferred i could literally unsub, and the game would play exactly the same for me, because I unlocked everything years ago.. The salary cap doesnt effect me because i just buy whatever in the cartel market, because the GTN is so screwed up with over pricing, I would rather not bother. My guild leader decided to go back to ESO after watching the live stream. He is taking a large number of guild members from both of the guilds with him. That hurts the game, and I hate to see that happen. But when you go making major changes to the story , people get upset.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Fallensouls

[Goreshaga]

I think a moderately sized portion of the population continues to pay for the game despite being unhappy with it is out of attachment for their characters. If I didn't have an original character (actually I have three that really stand out) I've nurtured and grown to love from level one, who is also the star of a 140,000+ fanfic, I would have cancelled a long time ago. I continue to pay, because I continue to write her story.

 

And no, boycotts don't work. But...airing our concerns doesn't either (sadly). It's pretty obvious by now that the game is on autopilot because BioWare/EA is putting all of it's eggs into Anthem.

Pretty much this.

 

I have 3 characters i trully care about, my JK who is the character i like the most, my SW and my SI. My other 5 mains are more like NPCs in their story, having a mention or a cameo here and there..

I'm curently recording my playtrough to be able to write everything i want to write about them, but it's clear that if they don't fit into that new storyline, i'll have no interest into playing again.

I'll just finish recording everything i want to record and then bye bye game, i'll go write my stuff and ignore anything coming after Nathema, after all i can always stop the story after Theron's proposal wich could make a good ending.

[Ylliarus]

I feel the same way so does most of my guild. They dont invest back in to the game and expect players to keep subbing. As a preferred i could literally unsub, and the game would play exactly the same for me, because I unlocked everything years ago.. The salary cap doesnt effect me because i just buy whatever in the cartel market, because the GTN is so screwed up with over pricing, I would rather not bother. My guild leader decided to go back to ESO after watching the live stream. He is taking a large number of guild members from both of the guilds with him. That hurts the game, and I hate to see that happen. But when you go making major changes to the story , people get upset.

 

Or they get happy and return to the game, as I have seen a lot of my old contacts do who left the game shortly after KotFE. It's really a knife that cuts both ways. Is it ideal that people unsub and leave SWTOR, but those who left are supplemented by those who return? No, that is why I am a supporter of the Three-faction solution. But the balance of subscribers will remain the same if they keep things they have planned at the moment, based on what I have seen happening.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Dracofish]

Pretty much this.

 

I have 3 characters i trully care about, my JK who is the character i like the most, my SW and my SI. My other 5 mains are more like NPCs in their story, having a mention or a cameo here and there..

I'm curently recording my playtrough to be able to write everything i want to write about them, but it's clear that if they don't fit into that new storyline, i'll have no interest into playing again.

I'll just finish recording everything i want to record and then bye bye game, i'll go write my stuff and ignore anything coming after Nathema, after all i can always stop the story after Theron's proposal wich could make a good ending.

 

Timeline-wise, I'm just starting Ziost, so I have a long way to go with my writing. But I've already come to grips with the fact that I'm going to be playing very loose with canon, lol. There are just too many things that make no sense, too many plot holes, to write it the way BioWare has given us. Just one example (of many) is Ziost...there is absotootly no reason why Theron didn't end up a walking meat suit. None. Other than ooooh Plot Armor™. And don't even get me started on Iokath and the entirety of the traitor arc. Hooboy...

 

Gotta love that little saying...fixes with fanfic.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Dracofish

[Gwaneth]

Doesn't the initial meeting in that back of a dingy bar kinda show how little respect you are going to receive? After all the battles my SW goes thru, when he decides to come back to the Empire he is met in a bar? Not even invited to meet directly with Acina in Kaas City? That turned my stomach. Same with my Jedi. That was just rude behavior and a disrespectful place to ask them to meet. Haven't played since.