Too many Jugg/Guardian

[yellow_]

I seen 6 mercs on one side the other day. and other times i have seen 5 Gunslingers, 5 Maras 5 Sentinel and usually all on one side, maybe the other side might have 1. i have seen 4 or 5 juggs too but i do not see Juggs Guards all the time i just dont. If i am lucky i have a balance team on both sides once every 6 times of playing unrank pvp... Dont get me started on ranked pvp and 2 or 3 healers on one side and other none. DONT GET ME STARTED!

 

So must just be you. like this is probably just me that get teams like i said.

the difference between you and the op is that you didn't see 6 mercs on a team a couple times and then decide that this is clearly perfect evidence of a trend and definitely not just something that happens periodically and make an awful pvp forum thread about it

 

people have been making more or less this exact same thread for years despite the fact juggs have been a middling class for years

Edited June 13, 2018 by yellow_

[Yezzan]

Juggs/Guardians have always been popular, and they were never at the bottom of the totem pole. Immortal and Defense were always vying for top spot among tanks. The only real change was the change to ED which was a needed change.

[vXCozmoz]

Great idea! I'll just... stand there for the 12(?) seconds that ED takes to go away. DPS classes simply shouldn't have defenses like this. Merc reflect is OP and so is ED.

 

Ever heard of stuns, interrupts, mez, kiting or the DCDs on your own class?

 

If you are dumb enough to hit a Jugg through ED... well...

 

Respectfully Trixxie, replies like this is far away from the reality. Allow me to explain. Yes if we are talking about facing a jugg 1vs1 then sure if you hit one with ED is up, it's an error on my end and far easier to pull off successfully using some CC, escape or w/e. BUT, how often do you fight a jugg 1vs1 in WZ? Any half decent one goes with his team.

 

Since I do not have my jugg on 70 with 248gear yet I understand I am not the perfect expert here but common sence tells me when I do play it, I won't be the lonely defender in Hypergate, Voidstar and such due to the obvious stealth ganking fest that might happen. Like get sapped by one I must use breaker or it will be enemy plant/cap so 2nd can use their flashbag etc. Especially when the new WZ changes is coming where plants only takes 6sec for the attacker to do.

 

(Btw no I don't use my breaker if I for some stupid reason would def pylon, standing away from it so it will take longer for one stealther to sap and run to cap, but if there's two there little I can do. That's what I ment so I won't risk it. Our stealthers on my team is obviously far better at that, or a sniper, vg using shoulder cannons or sorc with that shield explosion etc.)

 

What I am trying to say is, yes you are right in the 1vs1 situations, and KendraP is right when saying you can be focused by 4+ ppl, meaning ED won't do that much, but again, any decent jugg is not going to jump in full yolo mode 1 vs 6-7 in say Novare Coast. If they do then well...but any bad player will die fast regardless of class/specs. I've seen plenty of sorcs being globaled. Like seriously, no PW or bubble...something?

 

My reply is becoming longer then I wanted so I end it here with saying this. Generally speaking in warzones, let me be very, Very clear. There will always be someone who hit that jugg with ED up even if you stood near him and made a CC or w/e. Unless, again, it's a terrible one and will be die fast if he's yoloing alone vs 80% of enemy team by jumping in headlessly first (fine it will work if you do have your own pocket healer) within the starting point of the game.

 

I am agreeing with you but also to tell you why I do understand you get comments like that guy you quoted .

[KendraP]

I said 2+ people. And it hardly has to be because you jumped them. Just last night i was rolling vigi. Got wrecked by 2 good players while guarding a node despite using focused defense and them tunnelling into it.

 

Good focus will melt a vigi guardian regardless of FD or not. It doesn't scale with the damage you are taking, and bursty enough hits can effectively neuter FD.

 

FD is best as a dot mitigator. I.e. small but consistent hits.

[Tirozulu]

The fact of the matter you buff *********** guardians and at the same time SCREW VG DPS ONCE AGAIN! At least if there was a jug/Guardian on the opposing team as a VG dps you knew you could kill him about or before you died. Now as a VG dps its almost impossible unless the jugg/guardian is horrible. WHERE IS THE LOVE For VG/PT as we still have hardly any cooldowns and no actually good ones.

[AdjeYo]

The fact of the matter you buff *********** guardians and at the same time SCREW VG DPS ONCE AGAIN! At least if there was a jug/Guardian on the opposing team as a VG dps you knew you could kill him about or before you died. Now as a VG dps its almost impossible unless the jugg/guardian is horrible. WHERE IS THE LOVE For VG/PT as we still have hardly any cooldowns and no actually good ones.

 

At this point I'm hoping there's a new DCD for Pt's on the horizon for 6.0, something like not wanting to introduce new abilities outside of major updates or something. If not that, well Pt is kinda screwed

[-Bob-]

At this point I'm hoping there's a new DCD for Pt's on the horizon for 6.0, something like not wanting to introduce new abilities outside of major updates or something. If not that, well Pt is kinda screwed

Give PT's HULK mode. Movement speed increased by 50% for 60 seconds, immune to everything for 60 seconds. All stats boosted by 666% for 60 seconds. Player size increases 2.5 times body type 4. mainhand and offhand are removed for the duration.

[TrixxieTriss]

Respectfully Trixxie, replies like this is far away from the reality. Allow me to explain. Yes if we are talking about facing a jugg 1vs1 then sure if you hit one with ED is up, it's an error on my end and far easier to pull off successfully using some CC, escape or w/e. BUT, how often do you fight a jugg 1vs1 in WZ? Any half decent one goes with his team.

 

Since I do not have my jugg on 70 with 248gear yet I understand I am not the perfect expert here but common sence tells me when I do play it, I won't be the lonely defender in Hypergate, Voidstar and such due to the obvious stealth ganking fest that might happen. Like get sapped by one I must use breaker or it will be enemy plant/cap so 2nd can use their flashbag etc. Especially when the new WZ changes is coming where plants only takes 6sec for the attacker to do.

 

(Btw no I don't use my breaker if I for some stupid reason would def pylon, standing away from it so it will take longer for one stealther to sap and run to cap, but if there's two there little I can do. That's what I ment so I won't risk it. Our stealthers on my team is obviously far better at that, or a sniper, vg using shoulder cannons or sorc with that shield explosion etc.)

 

What I am trying to say is, yes you are right in the 1vs1 situations, and KendraP is right when saying you can be focused by 4+ ppl, meaning ED won't do that much, but again, any decent jugg is not going to jump in full yolo mode 1 vs 6-7 in say Novare Coast. If they do then well...but any bad player will die fast regardless of class/specs. I've seen plenty of sorcs being globaled. Like seriously, no PW or bubble...something?

 

My reply is becoming longer then I wanted so I end it here with saying this. Generally speaking in warzones, let me be very, Very clear. There will always be someone who hit that jugg with ED up even if you stood near him and made a CC or w/e. Unless, again, it's a terrible one and will be die fast if he's yoloing alone vs 80% of enemy team by jumping in headlessly first (fine it will work if you do have your own pocket healer) within the starting point of the game.

 

I am agreeing with you but also to tell you why I do understand you get comments like that guy you quoted .

 

Oh, I agree. There are way too many people who will keep hitting through ED even if you’ve stunned the Jugg.

When that happens, the best thing to do is join in and try and burn through them faster. It’s the only option left if you have dumb people around you.

 

On a side note, I’m usually one of those Juggs that goes up against 4-5 guys at once. Either while I’m defending solo, holding them up till my respawns / help arrives or actually pulling half their team to their off node to give my guys a numbers advantage.

I will still die in most of those situations, but I can usually delay long enough to achieve the goal I was aiming for when I went 1v5.

While ED helps, it’s not the god ability the OP and friends were trying to make out. The reason I’m able to do what I do is because I use all of my DCD, medpacks, stims, grenades and I dont panick and blow everything at once. I also use LoS against the ranged and I split up the 4-5 guys so they can’t all gank me at once.

Most good Juggs or experienced players on most classes can do the same.

 

The issue the OP has is he’s not as good as those he is playing against, so it must be because Juggs are OP. He just needs experience and to improve.

It would have been better if he’d just come here and asked how to counter Juggs on xxx class. Then people would have been willing to help him with some advise and tactics. But when someone inexperienced jumps straight to nerfing or saying classes are FOTM or OP, I’m going on the attack because I get sick of people calling for nerfs when they aren’t needed. I’ve seen too many classes ruined because inexperienced players band together and demand nerfs to perfectly ok classes.

 

Im getting sick of switching classes all the time because people are too lazy to relearn new metas or adjust play and tactics when changes are made. I dislike playing “real” FOTM OP classes

Edited June 14, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

The confessions of a disgruntled player trying to stay away from FOTM status for the last 18 months.

 

* Before 5.0 I was maining my Lightning Sorc, my Merc and my Fury Mara.

* 5.0 I stopped playing my Merc because it was FOTM, I stopped playing my Sorc because they became untenable and even weaker than before. I kept on playing my Mara and started playing my Sniper again to counter the Mercs.

* Then people start complaining about snipers as well as Mercs. Mara’s are still considered fine at this point and I’m having fun sniper hunting (no QQing about Mara’s yet)

* Around April, Sniper QQ increases more and more, so I stop playing my sniper and switch to Jugg and Sin and stay mained on my Mara to sniper hunt.

* At this point I’m not playing any ranged in this “ranged meta”. Im only playing melee and I’ve made it my misssion to concentrate on sniper and Merc hunting. Sins are not great at this, so I put mine back on the shelf and concentrate on my Fury Mara and Rage Jugg.

* QQing about Mercs and Snipers continue all year, but Mara’s are considered fine until around September.

* Then Mercs and sniper get a small nerf. Next thing Mara’s are a “big problem” because all those sniper and Mercs finally have to learn how to counter them instead of face tanking. What people failed to realise is Mara’s hadn’t changed since 5.0 was released and had been “fine” until Mercs got nerfed

* More and more QQing and nerf calls against Mara’s till finally Bioware bow to pressure from those Mercs and snipers who were dying and actually nerf Mara’s DCDs (not much, but it really wasn’t needed) and Mercs still have the best defences in the game.

* People continue to QQ about Mara’s, Mercs, Snipers and then skank tanks get added to the list.

* At this point, I switch fulltime to my Jugg to get away from the FOTM moniker and pray Bioware don’t do anything else to then make people swing their attention towards Juggs.

* Next thing, Jugg ED gets the smallest of buffs (which was needed) and all of a sudden we have people screaming to nerf Juggs.

 

Honeslty, this is getting really old. The meta hasn’t changed that much since 5.0 and classes haven’t had massive buffs to make them OP all of a sudden.

 

Some classes like Mara’s had no changes last year until Mercs and snipers got nerfed and started to finally die. No one had any complaints against them until those nerfs happened.... Coincidence

Now people are whining about Juggs and they aren’t even considered viable in ranked

 

I’m running out of classes to play that aren’t getting QQd about and people want nerfed. No one wants to play weak classes, but it’s feeling like if I don’t play the weakest like PT or Sorc, I’m going to get nerf batted every 3 months.

 

So, I’ve started to play my Sin and my Sorc (I’m not a fan of PTs or Ops), I’m still playing my Jugg and I’m not going to stop because they are not even close to being OP. The very idea that my Rage Jugg is OP is laughable in the extreme.

If Juggs get nerfed because of stupid threads like this and I’m left to play my Lightning Sorc and Sin, then I may as well quit.

 

Bad players or people who dont like change will always scream for nerfs or QQ because they won’t get better or change how they play. L2P your own damn classes or better yet, roll the class you “think” you have a problem with and see how they really play before you QQ. If you think the class is still OP, take it into ranked and see if you can steam roll everyone like a god. If you can, then please, record and upload for us all to see.

 

And people wonder why Bioware can’t or won’t balance anything...

Edited June 14, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[Sith-Viscera]

the difference between you and the op is that you didn't see 6 mercs on a team a couple times and then decide that this is clearly perfect evidence of a trend and definitely not just something that happens periodically and make an awful pvp forum thread about it

 

people have been making more or less this exact same thread for years despite the fact juggs have been a middling class for years

 

Oh yea, this kind of thread has been around more times then i can recall i just wish i had 100 CC for each thread i be a rich SWTOR Man.

 

But the whole pvp unbalanced issue rages on. I just cant understand why other MMO's can get pvp right and BW cant get this right or some what balanced. *shakes head*

[Glower]

wrong thread im sorry Edited June 14, 2018 by Glower

[vXCozmoz]

The confessions of a disgruntled player trying to stay away from FOTM status for the last 18 months.

 

* Before 5.0 I was maining my Lightning Sorc, my Merc and my Fury Mara.

* 5.0 I stopped playing my Merc because it was FOTM, I stopped playing my Sorc because they became untenable and even weaker than before. I kept on playing my Mara and started playing my Sniper again to counter the Mercs.

* Then people start complaining about snipers as well as Mercs. Mara’s are still considered fine at this point and I’m having fun sniper hunting (no QQing about Mara’s yet)

* Around April, Sniper QQ increases more and more, so I stop playing my sniper and switch to Jugg and Sin and stay mained on my Mara to sniper hunt.

* At this point I’m not playing any ranged in this “ranged meta”. Im only playing melee and I’ve made it my misssion to concentrate on sniper and Merc hunting. Sins are not great at this, so I put mine back on the shelf and concentrate on my Fury Mara and Rage Jugg.

* QQing about Mercs and Snipers continue all year, but Mara’s are considered fine until around September.

* Then Mercs and sniper get a small nerf. Next thing Mara’s are a “big problem” because all those sniper and Mercs finally have to learn how to counter them instead of face tanking. What people failed to realise is Mara’s hadn’t changed since 5.0 was released and had been “fine” until Mercs got nerfed

* More and more QQing and nerf calls against Mara’s till finally Bioware bow to pressure from those Mercs and snipers who were dying and actually nerf Mara’s DCDs (not much, but it really wasn’t needed) and Mercs still have the best defences in the game.

* People continue to QQ about Mara’s, Mercs, Snipers and then skank tanks get added to the list.

* At this point, I switch fulltime to my Jugg to get away from the FOTM moniker and pray Bioware don’t do anything else to then make people swing their attention towards Juggs.

* Next thing, Jugg ED gets the smallest of buffs (which was needed) and all of a sudden we have people screaming to nerf Juggs.

 

Honeslty, this is getting really old. The meta hasn’t changed that much since 5.0 and classes haven’t had massive buffs to make them OP all of a sudden.

 

Some classes like Mara’s had no changes last year until Mercs and snipers got nerfed and started to finally die. No one had any complaints against them until those nerfs happened.... Coincidence

Now people are whining about Juggs and they aren’t even considered viable in ranked

 

I’m running out of classes to play that aren’t getting QQd about and people want nerfed. No one wants to play weak classes, but it’s feeling like if I don’t play the weakest like PT or Sorc, I’m going to get nerf batted every 3 months.

 

So, I’ve started to play my Sin and my Sorc (I’m not a fan of PTs or Ops), I’m still playing my Jugg and I’m not going to stop because they are not even close to being OP. The very idea that my Rage Jugg is OP is laughable in the extreme.

If Juggs get nerfed because of stupid threads like this and I’m left to play my Lightning Sorc and Sin, then I may as well quit.

 

Bad players or people who dont like change will always scream for nerfs or QQ because they won’t get better or change how they play. L2P your own damn classes or better yet, roll the class you “think” you have a problem with and see how they really play before you QQ. If you think the class is still OP, take it into ranked and see if you can steam roll everyone like a god. If you can, then please, record and upload for us all to see.

 

And people wonder why Bioware can’t or won’t balance anything...

 

+1 from me. Time for my confession then as well.

 

That was a good way to sum it up and I honestly feel your pain, belive me I do. Have to "force" myself to play something else or I am not "viable". I used to play my merc as main around 3.0 when they were considered "free kills" cause of little to no real DCD's. Eric Musco I believe played one on a stream and ALL of sudden realized "hmm this feels weak, need to tell devs to adjust this" and we know what happened to them in 5.0. From free kills to face-tanking gods. Yes you do still need to kite but you get my point. I sticked to mine cause I had FUN with it and didn't care if it was OP or not viable.

 

Having fun is the number one factor with a class/spec. Folks like us know you need to like your toon in order to invest time and effort in it and means less chance of reroll, more played = better geared/skilled etc etc. But no, the common QQ happens cause we got the lazy pvp playerbase who want it ezmode and want to play some Quake3 arena or w/e where you can just press mouse buttons and jump around hitting people left and right. And let's not forget all those (and they are a big bunch) saying "dude care less, it's only pvp". Doesn't matter if its lowbie/mid/70. You hear the same bs time and a time again.

 

Like I would tell someone "hey let's do some random pve stuff, FP/OP regardless of difficulty lvl. I'll just lol around hit every mob I can for some dps fun. I would probably wipe the group more then once, but who cares it's just pve, right". Sigh. Would not take long for me to get kicked, ignored, reported or w/e.

 

Being new or bad is one thing, but not even try to win pvp games or worse don't care is something different imho. Just want your epeen scorebaord /statsme selfish bs makes me almost speachless altho I'm typing alot here I know. Play a teambased online game and don't care is...well I stop there.

 

It did not take long for me to get bored with my merc, who I played a decent long time to know it rather well with BiS gear at that time. Sad part is we are victims and are at mercy from all the nerf hammer who try to learn the class as best we can. How to position ourselves and so on. By the time we get to like another class and get him/her geared, another nerf comes and you are rendered "not viable".

 

This might be a bad example, but same princip. Back in the oldschool days in WoW (classic). So many people were flat out yelling on the forums, "you CAN'T kill Palas as shaman" and "you CAN'T kill shamans as paladins." Guess who played both and learned how to defeat em in both ways mentioned. Yes palas were more def and shamans more offensive hybrid at that time but with some common sence, ingame experience, practise and THINKING you came out alive.

 

Again, I feel your pain. QQ is easier ofc then learn and adapt. But too many seem to live way more on the forums and guides then accually learning yourself and become as good as you can get (sure with some help from guides). Don't get me wrong they are a good way for some who want to either try min/max or learn something if you're completley new to the class or game itself, but this mimicing others doesn't mean you understand it. I do understand the time and effort those people did for the guides obviously.

 

Honestly also sick of all these "whats the best class/spec/utility/build" bla bla bla best, best, best, best...atleast some have the good sence of replying "what you are good at and like to play the most". Like try it out yourself? Nah someone else will tell me whats best and because I'm terrible I will blame the class and spec cause it can't be me...right?

 

Maybe has something to do me being a 40yo gamer and been around a while. Compared to todays spoiled and insecure millenials (ohh don't get me started on that). Anyway that's enough this time

[TrixxieTriss]

Let's face the facts here. When Warzones are 70% Jugg/Guardian there is a problem.

 

I got one for you.

 

When Warsones are 70% healers there is a problem. Every game tonight has had 5+ healers in it.

 

I had 7 in a row against these pubs that had 4 on their team and 3 tanks each match. Nothing dies, it’s not fun, so no one on your team tries to play the objectives, they either rage quit or dummy parse all match.

Then I start popping imp v Imp and think it will be better, but no, one team has 4 healers and the other has 3 and tanks.

 

It’s a total farce and I can’t wait to see how these people handle it when the queues don’t pop for them once Bioware make it 1 healer - 1 tank per match.

They’ll either be forced to respec dps or they’ll never get matches. Plus they also won’t know how to play dps properly and us dedicated dps will rip them apart.

 

Those stacking healers and tanks better make the most of this remaining meta because a reckoning is coming

Edited June 17, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Maybe has something to do me being a 40yo gamer and been around a while. Compared to todays spoiled and insecure millenials (ohh don't get me started on that). Anyway that's enough this time

 

Im turning 47 soon, damn I’m getting old

Edited June 17, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

* QQing about Mercs and Snipers continue all year, but Mara’s are considered fine until around September.

* Then Mercs and sniper get a small nerf. Next thing Mara’s are a “big problem” because all those sniper and Mercs finally have to learn how to counter them instead of face tanking. What people failed to realise is Mara’s hadn’t changed since 5.0 was released and had been “fine” until Mercs got nerfed

* More and more QQing and nerf calls against Mara’s till finally Bioware bow to pressure from those Mercs and snipers who were dying and actually nerf Mara’s DCDs (not much, but it really wasn’t needed) and Mercs still have the best defences in the game.

* People continue to QQ about Mara’s

 

That always stuck in my craw. From 5.0-5-2 everyone was saying that Marauders were the most balanced class in the game. All it would take is a quick search of that time period on the forums to see those posts, not like they aren't still there. And since than, at least with respect to Carnage, all that has changed is nerf after nerf after nerf. Carnage has received more nerfs through 5.x than any other spec. So how did Carnage go from 'balanced' 5 nerfs ago too OP? Anni took quite a few nerfs as well. We have Fury to blame for that.

 

Here I thought nerfs made you worse than you had been. I musta got the definition of nerfed confused with buffed.

 

Do people really not know there are 3 specs of every class and they are not all the same?

 

Fury, Annihilation, Carnage. Tomorrow we'll do colors.

 

Same thing with Juggs, people see skank tank and just label their distaste for them and say "Juggs". A lot of people are unhappy with the extra life they got. I don't see how anyone could think that's inappropriate for a tank. Same thing with merc healers. I have no problem with Merc DCDs on Merc healers.

 

DPS specs are a different matter however, but that's why you need to say the name of the specs being QQed because otherwise innocent specs can get painted with the same stroke due to the status of one of the three specs of a class.

Edited June 17, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[TrixxieTriss]

That always stuck in my craw. From 5.0-5-2 everyone was saying that Marauders were the most balanced class in the game. All it would take is a quick search of that time period on the forums to see those posts, not like they aren't still there. And since than, at least with respect to Carnage, all that has changed is nerf after nerf after nerf. Carnage has received more nerfs through 5.x than any other spec. So how did Carnage go from 'balanced' 5 nerfs ago too OP? Anni took quite a few nerfs as well. We have Fury to blame for that.

 

Here I thought nerfs made you worse than you had been. I musta got the definition of nerfed confused with buffed.

 

Do people really not know there are 3 specs of every class and they are not all the same?

 

Fury, Annihilation, Carnage. Tomorrow we'll do colors.

 

Same thing with Juggs, people see skank tank and just label their distaste for them and say "Juggs". A lot of people are unhappy with the extra life they got. I don't see how anyone could think that's inappropriate for a tank. Same thing with merc healers. I have no problem with Merc DCDs on Merc healers.

 

DPS specs are a different matter however, but that's why you need to say the name of the specs being QQed because otherwise innocent specs can get painted with the same stroke due to the status of one of the three specs of a class.

 

Yep, for months people were saying Mara’s were the best balanced and all classes should be balanced around them. But as soon as those nerfs happened for Mercs, all the QQ started. In hind sight I, we now know who was playing Mercs at the time, those that yelled the loudest for Mara nerfs

 

I also need to personally remember not to champion balanced classes like Mara’s, so that people don’t try it and make it FOTM after we tell them how good they are at hunting snipers and Mercs. Next time I’ll stay quiet

 

And yeah, I’ve been saying for years that people need to specify specs as well as class because otherwise Bioware flush the whole class down the drain to nerf one spec.

Edited June 18, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[NuSeC]

Let's face the facts here. When Warzones are 70% Jugg/Guardian there is a problem.

 

LOL... people may be trying to play jugg but they mostly are newbs.

 

A bunch does not always mean they are a problem. Most have no clue what they are doing. Kinda like that blind kid trying to play defensive line.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

LOL... people may be trying to play jugg but they mostly are newbs.

 

A bunch does not always mean they are a problem. Most have no clue what they are doing. Kinda like that blind kid trying to play defensive line.

 

There's definitely more Juggs running around in PVP now and that can't be coincidence that it just happened to coincide with the extra life from ED [3/4 whatever, close enough =p]. Undoubtedly more Jugg skanks as well, no surprise there either.

 

It ain't no 70% though. Juggs have always been popular, they always will be, they are strong class overall, easy playstyle and iconic of the Star Wars genre, at least aesthetically [one saber like in the movies for the most part].

 

A portion of them may be newbs to the class but not necessarily noobs in the game. An extra life will draw players to it. Juggs FOTM, yeah, kinda, but there is a difference between FOTM and OP. They often go hand in hand, but not always.

[KendraP]

iconic of the Star Wars genre, at least aesthetically [one saber like in the movies for the most part].

 

See this is what drew me to the class years ago - i wanted to be obi wan XD

 

In all seriousness, for dps juggies:

1. Focus is in every way worse that concentration, assuming you have a healer (and even then i argue its more debatable because of point 2) (i also feel perfectly legitimate making this claim because i have played both)

2. Guardians have no anti focus or disengage and are additionally a low mobility class (for melee). FD in a focused situation as a dps merely delays the inevitable for maybe a second. I grant you thats more than it did before the recent rescale. i too have healed for over a million healing on my guardian... as a tank spec.

 

As i have said before, survivability wise, DCDs vs self heals is largely a matter of semantics. As far as the practicality of this, the focus vs concentration argument illustrates the situation well: concentrations vastly superior mobility combined with its greater DCDs and a disengage give it far more staying power than the self heal of FD does.

 

Even vigi, which i play far more often, and is arguably better than focus because of the leap stun immunity, has a massive focus issue despite FD. I would go so far as to argue that, even with FD, it is still worse than concentration. Better than annhi for pvp, i would say yes because annhi frankly lacks even a pretense of burst.

 

Your spec, combat/carnage, is the one I know practically nothing about. Other than "its a burst spec" anyway.

[Elusive_Thing]

That always stuck in my craw. From 5.0-5-2 everyone was saying that Marauders were the most balanced class in the game. All it would take is a quick search of that time period on the forums to see those posts, not like they aren't still there.

Really? Everyone thought it was balanced? That's just wrong. Fury along with RA was overpowered then and saying no-one noticed it is just wrong.

[Lhancelot]

All this jugg talk reminds me of the guy that posted videos of himself dominating matches on the jugg class while clicking not using key bindings. Who was that and anyone else remember him? Edited June 18, 2018 by Lhancelot

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Really? Everyone thought it was balanced? That's just wrong. Fury along with RA was overpowered then and saying no-one noticed it is just wrong.

 

Okay, let me say this one more time really really really slow.......

 

Marauders.............have...................three...............specs................and..................they..............aren't.............all..........called..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Fury.

 

They don't remove old posts. That's why there is a search option. Don't take my word, or Trixxie's word or anyone elses word for it, go look at posts from between 5.0-5.2 and that's exactly what people were saying all that time, that Marauders were the most balanced class.

 

That's why I said it the way I did, because I knew some gamer geek was gonna say "When did they say that?!?".

 

Fury.

 

Not Annihilation.

 

Not Carnage.

 

Fury.

 

Fury is strong as hell, and that's why you 95% of the marauders running around are Fury. I don't play that FOTM crap. And I agree with on Fury RA and their innate 6 second anti-cc passive every 24 seconds was too much. Carnage and Annihilation didn't have an CC immunities even when they still had the RA pre-nerf, that was not an Anti-CC, that was a 75% chance of resist. If it isn't 100% it isn't an anti-CC it's a resist [percentage].

 

No DPS spec has any greater claim to anti-cc or even resists of that nature. It isn't okay for 1 DPS spec to have but "wrong for another" on any irrefutable grounds. Therefore it's a matter of opinion, and I don't think Snipers should have a lick of it, but, they got it coming out of thier A-holes. They have heals that's more than Marauders have and Snipers shouldn't have heals either. Pure DPS classes shouldn't have them.Yet,i see them reaching 700k in heals sometimes. [That's not the norm though, but I have seen it a few times, 500k would to much, let alone 700k. Pure DPS class my ***.

 

Stop stating things that are matters of opinion as if they are facts. You are entitled to any opinion you even if I don't agree with it. Who should or shouldn't have anti cc is a matter of opinion. In the case of Fury, I agree it was too much for them because they arguable already had some of the best anti-cc in the game and it's what has always been it's strong point in PVP. With the buffs they got coming into 5.0 it became too much because at least before they weren't rocking out some of the highest DPS in the game to boot. The fact that they had such great mobility and anti-cc made thier uptimes better so that helped mitigate some the lower dps they had had. Snipers being how they are now, the fact that Fury can leap to snipers with their second leap makes them even stronger and less vulnerable to the crazy control snipers can hold over many melee. They robbed carnage of the dot on Ravage and gave it to Fury, so Fury was strong as hell right out of the gate. They are also the reason everyone thought that marauders had 12 seconds of CC immunity when Carnage and Anni never even had 1 second of it because they just were to lazy to bother to see what spec a marauder was. That's why people say Marauder like their is only one kind, because for the most part all the marauders they see are Fury.

 

The loss of RA in it's former form didn't hurt Fury that bad because they still have excellent anti CC passive, it hurt Annihilation and Carnage a lot more and they were already trailing behind Fury notably. If you play Anni or Carnage now and their is a Operative anywhere near you, you might as well just take a nap. If there are two near you, you are a dead man.

 

I also think thats why there is such an upswing in Operatives lately, I see a ton of them now, and I can only assume that it may be because of the RA nerf they know they have free reign now. One operative working with another DPS will lock you down while his pal neuters you if you don't have all your abilities available and even than it doesn't matter because the second you break it you just get CCed again by stabby stabby or his pal.

 

But than again, I'm the idiot still playing Carnage so that's on me. RA as it was is gone and that's it, end of story.

 

It's like assuming every sniper has that cheese ball aoe slow with no cooldown that they can reapply will and keep going forever. That's one spec. Vir and sharpshooters don't have that cheese ball ability and some how I know that.

Edited June 19, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[TrixxieTriss]

There's definitely more Juggs running around in PVP now and that can't be coincidence that it just happened to coincide with the extra life from ED [3/4 whatever, close enough =p]. Undoubtedly more Jugg skanks as well, no surprise there either.

 

It ain't no 70% though. Juggs have always been popular, they always will be, they are strong class overall, easy playstyle and iconic of the Star Wars genre, at least aesthetically [one saber like in the movies for the most part].

 

A portion of them may be newbs to the class but not necessarily noobs in the game. An extra life will draw players to it. Juggs FOTM, yeah, kinda, but there is a difference between FOTM and OP. They often go hand in hand, but not always.

 

I have to agree. Surprisingly, even when everyone was complaining about Mara’s being OP and FOTM, there were more Juggs in matches than Mara’s. But a large percentage of them and I dare say the majority of them are skanks, not dps.

 

But this is changing since Bioware told us that tanks and healers will be limited to one per team. All of those FOTM skanks now need to learn dps or they wont get any matches (and no one wants to grind a new Alt to 300 if they can help it).

So now we have a situation of an over abundance of FOTM skanks trying to convert to dps and are now making the dps appea OP FOTM, which they aren’t. It’s an artificially created FOTM situation due to the up coming restrictions on how many tanks can enter pvp. I predict this perceived FOTM situation will change in another month or so.

 

The reality is most of those skanks trying to play dps are rubbish. Some will eventually get good with practice, but I expect most will abondon the class in favour of an OP FOTM as soon as the roadmap is implemented because a lot of them were only playing skanks because they were OP to start with.

 

We all know FOTM reg players jump every meta or change to play the easiest spec to top the leader boards in damage. It’s like last year, Mercs are OP and we get a massive increase in regs, people realise they can counter them with snipers, so we see an increase in those. Mercs and snipers get nerfed and people jump to skanks and the remaining FOTM Mercs start to QQ about Mara’s being OP and more people start to play them (FOTM people) and most of those Mara’s were rubbish anyway.

 

But Bioware still nerfed Maras because the Mercs were QQing (cant upset the Meta overlords too much or they may unsub ). Sadly, even before the nerfs, Maras weren’t FOTM as far representation in regs. They were always out numbered by Mercs, snipers, Juggs and in some cases, by healers in matches.

 

Warriors and Inquisitors have always been more popular in the game than the other classes. So you would have to assume that they should be more represented in reg pvp because most pvpers these days are really casual pve people who rolled those advanced classes when they started to play the game.

 

I think if every class was balanced properly, you would always see more warrior and inquisitor classes in pvp vs agents and bounty hunters. That wouldn’t make them FOTM OP classes, just the games preferred classes because people want to be a Sith or Jedi for a Star Wars experience. FOTG, yes, OP, no.

Which begs the question, whenever we see a rise in more Mercs and agents in pvp vs force users, should we instantly consider them OP?

[KendraP]

I am perfectly capable of doing damage as a dps juggie. https://imgur.com/a/wgxqb6a

i choose to skank because i am a tank main who took 5 years to grow tired of useless gear.

 

The skanks who pretend to be damage dealers are a total waste of a dps spot on a team. They would be much better if they would do something like: https://imgur.com/a/dWdNZZy over 2 mill protection, with 1.6 mill damage taken, with no deaths. That is why you tank in pvp.

[TrixxieTriss]

Okay, let me say this one more time really really really slow.......

 

Marauders.............have...................three...............specs................and..................they..............aren't.............all..........called..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Fury.

 

They don't remove old posts. That's why there is a search option. Don't take my word, or Trixxie's word or anyone elses word for it, go look at posts from between 5.0-5.2 and that's exactly what people were saying all that time, that Marauders were the most balanced class.

 

That's why I said it the way I did, because I knew some gamer geek was gonna say "When did they say that?!?".

 

Fury.

 

Not Annihilation.

 

Not Carnage.

 

Fury.

 

Fury is strong as hell, and that's why you 95% of the marauders running around are Fury. I don't play that FOTM crap. And I agree with on Fury RA and their innate 6 second anti-cc passive every 24 seconds was too much. Carnage and Annihilation didn't have an CC immunities even when they still had the RA pre-nerf, that was not an Anti-CC, that was a 75% chance of resist. If it isn't 100% it isn't an anti-CC it's a resist [percentage].

 

No DPS spec has any greater claim to anti-cc or even resists of that nature. It isn't okay for 1 DPS spec to have but "wrong for another" on any irrefutable grounds. Therefore it's a matter of opinion, and I don't think Snipers should have a lick of it, but, they got it coming out of thier A-holes. They have heals that's more than Marauders have and Snipers shouldn't have heals either. Pure DPS classes shouldn't have them.Yet,i see them reaching 700k in heals sometimes. [That's not the norm though, but I have seen it a few times, 500k would to much, let alone 700k. Pure DPS class my ***.

 

Stop stating things that are matters of opinion as if they are facts. You are entitled to any opinion you even if I don't agree with it. Who should or shouldn't have anti cc is a matter of opinion. In the case of Fury, I agree it was too much for them because they arguable already had some of the best anti-cc in the game and it's what has always been it's strong point in PVP. With the buffs they got coming into 5.0 it became too much because at least before they weren't rocking out some of the highest DPS in the game to boot. The fact that they had such great mobility and anti-cc made thier uptimes better so that helped mitigate some the lower dps they had had. Snipers being how they are now, the fact that Fury can leap to snipers with their second leap makes them even stronger and less vulnerable to the crazy control snipers can hold over many melee. They robbed carnage of the dot on Ravage and gave it to Fury, so Fury was strong as hell right out of the gate. They are also the reason everyone thought that marauders had 12 seconds of CC immunity when Carnage and Anni never even had 1 second of it because they just were to lazy to bother to see what spec a marauder was. That's why people say Marauder like their is only one kind, because for the most part all the marauders they see are Fury.

 

The loss of RA in it's former form didn't hurt Fury that bad because they still have excellent anti CC passive, it hurt Annihilation and Carnage a lot more and they were already trailing behind Fury notably. If you play Anni or Carnage now and their is a Operative anywhere near you, you might as well just take a nap. If there are two near you, you are a dead man.

 

I also think thats why there is such an upswing in Operatives lately, I see a ton of them now, and I can only assume that it may be because of the RA nerf they know they have free reign now. One operative working with another DPS will lock you down while his pal neuters you if you don't have all your abilities available and even than it doesn't matter because the second you break it you just get CCed again by stabby stabby or his pal.

 

But than again, I'm the idiot still playing Carnage so that's on me. RA as it was is gone and that's it, end of story.

 

It's like assuming every sniper has that cheese ball aoe slow with no cooldown that they can reapply will and keep going forever. That's one spec. Vir and sharpshooters don't have that cheese ball ability and some how I know that.

 

Surprisingly, before the Merc nerfs, the majority of Mara’s were Carnage. I think I was the only one on these forum who said they were playing Fury.

 

Carnage was doing more damage and Fury was looked appon as the lesser spec because it was considered easier. Which wasn’t why I played it. My reason for playing Fury was because they could counter snipers better than any other melee in the game. There are plenty of posts where I said this, but I was often told I should be playing Carnage if I wanted to do high numbers.

 

When Bioware nerfed Mercs, Snipers and Carnage, people changed their tunes because Fury suddenly looked good again because it wasn’t nerfed. RA had never been an issue or been brought up in the forums before that round of Bioware trying to balance. I know, I’ve looked back through the forums to see.

 

So RA was never considered OP (or at least QQ’d about) and Fury wasn’t considered the best Mara spec. It was actually considered the poor mans Mara and certainly not a FOTM class-spec. The only thing it was good at in the eyes of most was hunting snipers, which is what I did because I saw no one else was trying to do that. People were so concerned with nerfing snipers that they didn’t realise they already had a means to negate their advantage. I posted extensively about this and got told Snipers had to be nerfed because melee were getting decimated by them.

 

It’s funny how that happens. One class gets nerfed, another that doesn’t and was considered balanced or even under perfoming (as Fury was compared to Carnage) and all of a sudden they are OP or their DCDs are OP.

RA allowed Fury to be a great sniper hunter and when the balancing happened, snipers and Mercs realised they were no longer the pvp supreme overlords they had been. Carnage players lost dps and rotation, but could still perform adequately because of RA. It was finally a saving grace against a ranged dominant meta.

With Fury unchanged, it actually became a bit easier to kill snipers and Mercs (it was actually really difficult before Merc and sniper nerfs). Obviously Mercs (especially) and snipers didn’t like that and QQ loudly.

What really surprised me were the other classes like Sins and Operatives and healers QQing too. All have some of the best DCDs and survivability in the game.

 

This is the problem with most nerfs, a class that is considered balanced and isn’t changed can all of a sudden be considered OP when other classes get nerfed, it’s why I’m nearly always against nerfs because it can ruin other classes that were fine before,

 

I still don’t believe RA needed to be nerfed in this current meta. All it did was ruin carnage and did little to Fury. Before RA was nerfed, all it did was make Mara’s more viable against snipers and Mercs. And put some pressure on healers because they finally had to heal some snipers and Mercs.

Honestly, I still think it was a “learn to play” issue that was a result of people refusing to adjust tactics and skills. Most of the QQ came from Mercs and snipers, which is funny when you consider they are still considered the number one FOTM classes after all the nerfs and balancing Bioware have done. Now some have the gaul to complain about Jugg ED which isn’t even as powerful as Merc heal to full.

 

I don’t know how many people have played DPS Juggs before the changes and after, but I can tell you that snipers can be damn hard to kill on Jugg. People say Juggs have 2 lives because of ED, but snipers can nearly continuously heal while in cover and popping the shield barrier basically gives them a second life and they can keep most Juggs as bay because Juggs have the worst mobility in the game, While I can eventually kill a lot of mediocre or bad snipers, it takes an exceedingly long time to do and healers often make it impossible.

 

What I would really like to understand about this QQ people have towards Dps Juggs or ED, is what classes are you all playing? Mercs, Snipers, healers or other.

Just like Mara’s, nobody considered DPS Juggs OP and most considered them a bit of a joke, especially in ranked. This extremely tiny change in ED, which was needed, once again mainly affects Mercs and Snipers because they are the most prolific, as well as the most used in ranked.

Which means, once again we have the pvp overlords QQing because they can’t dominate everyone as easily. That is just sad, they still have the advantage and dominate both ranked and regs. Are they all so scared they might possibly need to learn to play better or play harder against other classes.

 

Mark my words, this ranged meta won’t last forever. Mercs and snipers better be prepared for some real competition from melee in the future. I can’t wait to see how loud that QQ is.

 

#nerfoperatives

#nerfsorc

#nerfpt

 

Edit:

On the Operative increase, I have also noticed this since RA got nerfed and I’m not even playing my Mara now. If you think an Operative is a pain, you should see what it’s like on a Rage Jugg....

Operative : Stab, stab

Jugg : ED

Operative : stealth out

Jugg : ED finishes (zero healing)

Operative : stab

Jugg : dead.

ED is useless against Operatives. Its better to bend over, take your punishment and not use ED so it’s not on CD when you respawn. I really hope there are no Ops QQing about ED

Edited June 19, 2018 by TrixxieTriss