Too many Jugg/Guardian

[DenariusJay]

All tanks I know swapped to Jugg tanks cause of the fix and the nerfs to the other tanks. I guess we will always have a FOTM class and people will tend to use those. On the other hand, there are people who do stick to their classes no matter what happens.

 

It's pretty much this.

 

PT and SIN tank took a bigger hit in the dps nerf then the jugg tank, so ex-PT/SIN tank players have mostly migrated over to jugg tank with dps gear. Having more Juggs in a match is in no way conclusive to the idea that they are somehow OP or in a good state now. Far from it. Jugg DPS is still number 1 focus and still have alot of deaths in WZ right behind PT dps. The recent buff for the self-heal is being grossly exaggerated imo.

Edited June 12, 2018 by DenariusJay

[Mournblood]

I'm not sure what I'll do. I've been focusing on my scrapper and sage lately, but I always go back to my guardian. I might play around with vigi or focus, but I'll probably just play the other 2 if I can't get pops on my tank.

 

Truth be told, I have a Vigi Guardian I tend to play later at night. I do much better with him when I'm on a good team that can keep me healed when I'm under focus (<3 U Warpigs). When I'm solo queued, not so much. Especially if I'm fighting against someone who knows to CC me or target swap the moment I pop FD.

 

Bottom line, DPS Guardians are very similar to DPS PTs in that they have a lot of burst potential, but drop like a bag of rocks under focus. In either case, they are very far removed from "OP" status, and if you see more of them following 5.9.2 as others have postulated, it's not because they are FotM.

[KendraP]

Truth be told, I have a Vigi Guardian I tend to play later at night. I do much better with him when I'm on a good team that can keep me healed when I'm under focus (<3 U Warpigs). When I'm solo queued, not so much. Especially if I'm fighting against someone who knows to CC me or target swap the moment I pop FD.

 

Bottom line, DPS Guardians are very similar to DPS PTs in that they have a lot of burst potential, but drop like a bag of rocks under focus. In either case, they are very far removed from "OP" status, and if you see more of them following 5.9.2 as others have postulated, it's not because they are FotM.

 

Hey like i said, I'll take a good player of any class over fotmers.

Guardians are light years better than PT though, we have a focus issue. PT has a focus and total lack of DCD issue lol.

[Kazz_Devlin]

Actually its a range of the " I win classes" Merc's and jugs are usually top running classes with at least 3-4 of either class in a match followed by Sniper and sorc heals. The rest are usually your fill ins mara Operative PT etc etc

What the focus should be is Why are these classes always in the top running which is pretty much the fact they all break trinity Huge DPS output plus Huge Defenses which leads to what boils down to essentially 3 lives. We aren't talking tank spec here but DPS burst classes. Why play a DPS burst that is a glass cannon when I can play an "I win crutch class" put out the same high DPS, IF NOT MORE yet die far less of the time. Doesn't take mental giants to then figure out why most PVP matches are inundated with Merc's, Snipers, & Jugs. What really takes the cake though is the fact that the lame queue system will queue 3-4 of these I win classes into match throwing off the balance in 99% of the matches. Yeah I know that's supposedly getting addressed in some future pass of some future update, well i'm not holding my breath, will undoubtedly be as effective as the "NERF" to Merc's DPS was or how about the "NERF" to SKANK tanks.

[KendraP]

Actually its a range of the " I win classes" Merc's and jugs are usually top running classes with at least 3-4 of either class in a match followed by Sniper and sorc heals. The rest are usually your fill ins mara Operative PT etc etc

What the focus should be is Why are these classes always in the top running which is pretty much the fact they all break trinity Huge DPS output plus Huge Defenses which leads to what boils down to essentially 3 lives. We aren't talking tank spec here but DPS burst classes. Why play a DPS burst that is a glass cannon when I can play an "I win crutch class" put out the same high DPS, IF NOT MORE yet die far less of the time. Doesn't take mental giants to then figure out why most PVP matches are inundated with Merc's, Snipers, & Jugs. What really takes the cake though is the fact that the lame queue system will queue 3-4 of these I win classes into match throwing off the balance in 99% of the matches. Yeah I know that's supposedly getting addressed in some future pass of some future update, well i'm not holding my breath, will undoubtedly be as effective as the "NERF" to Merc's DPS was or how about the "NERF" to SKANK tanks.

 

I'm curious... when you come around whining about juggies, do you mean tanks or dps? And what class do you play?

 

The 2 classes that are undoubtedly worse off dps wise are PT and sorc.

 

Everyone else is comparable or better. As i mentioned earlier:

Sin and oper have stealth

Mara has camo (partial stealth) and assuming a healer better DCDs,

All of these also have better mobility.

 

Juggie dps will melt under focus, FD or not.

 

If its juggie tanks, being difficuly to kill is sort of the point of tanking. If its "just skanks" see my many discussions on pvp tanks and gearing.

 

There is no way a dps juggie is in any way an i win class.

 

Also most guardian dps run vigi which isn't a burst spec

Edited June 12, 2018 by KendraP

[Kurj]

Hey like i said, I'll take a good player of any class over fotmers.

Guardians are light years better than PT though, we have a focus issue. PT has a focus and total lack of DCD issue lol.

 

And even with all of that, there are still PT players who are like gods. I can't remember his name, but there is one on SS who pops up every once in a while. He literally destroys everyone in the match at will, and then I don't see him for a few months. He's either moonlighting on an alt from ranked, or just supremely talented despite low playtime.

[KendraP]

And even with all of that, there are still PT players who are like gods. I can't remember his name, but there is one on SS who pops up every once in a while. He literally destroys everyone in the match at will, and then I don't see him for a few months. He's either moonlighting on an alt from ranked, or just supremely talented despite low playtime.

 

Being good at a class is one thing; claiming you lose because every other class is op is another.

 

I think we can all agree PT DCDs are garbage. And there are devoted players who pull it off anyway, which validates my point that *gasp*

SKILL matters as much as SPEC or CLASS.

[Mournblood]

And even with all of that, there are still PT players who are like gods. I can't remember his name, but there is one on SS who pops up every once in a while. He literally destroys everyone in the match at will, and then I don't see him for a few months. He's either moonlighting on an alt from ranked, or just supremely talented despite low playtime.

 

On SS? Was his name Ferrex?

[Kurj]

On SS? Was his name Ferrex?

 

I think that's right. Let me guess: is this you?

[Mournblood]

I think that's right. Let me guess: is this you?

 

LOL Yeah, that's me. I guess this is my "15 minutes" moment. But seriously, I've been PvPing on him for well over 4 years, but I haven't done Ranked competitively with him since 8v8. You may be glad to know that I've shelved him for the time being as of 5.9 because Bioware had the opportunity to finally address the DCD issue for PTs but completely ignored them (again). Modesty aside, I'm more skilled on him than any other DPS toon I play, but it doesn't change the fact that against competent premade teams who know how to focus and who prioritize PTs, I die very, very quickly.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Mournblood

[Kurj]

LOL Yeah, that's me. I guess this is my "15 minutes" moment. But seriously, I've been PvPing on him for well over 4 years, but I haven't done Ranked competitively with him since 8v8. You may be glad to know that I've shelved him for the time being as of 5.9 because Bioware had the opportunity to finally address the DCD issue for PTs but completely ignored them (again). Modesty aside, I'm more skilled on him than any other DPS toon I play, but it doesn't change the fact that against competent premade teams who know how to focus and who prioritize PTs, I die very, very quickly.

 

My hat's off to you, sir. And, actually, I'm sad to hear you've shelved him. It was fun watching you tear people apart on a PT. Skill is truly > all.

[Mournblood]

My hat's off to you, sir. And, actually, I'm sad to hear you've shelved him. It was fun watching you tear people apart on a PT. Skill is truly > all.

 

Appreciate the compliments. I'm sure I'll bring him back out at some point, but I'm enjoying my Merc too much right now.

[KendraP]

Appreciate the compliments. I'm sure I'll bring him back out at some point, but I'm enjoying my Merc too much right now.

 

Good player on a survivable class... OP!

Sorry couldn't resist. Teasing obviously.

[Mournblood]

Good player on a survivable class... OP!

Sorry couldn't resist. Teasing obviously.

 

Bioware made me do it, dammit!

[Vissionary]

Modesty aside, I'm more skilled on him than any other DPS toon I play, but it doesn't change the fact that against competent premade teams who know how to focus and who prioritize PTs, I die very, very quickly.

 

Hi Mourne! Need a healbot?

[Elusive_Thing]

Actually its a range of the " I win classes" Merc's and jugs are usually top running classes with at least 3-4 of either class in a match followed by Sniper and sorc heals. The rest are usually your fill ins mara Operative PT etc etc

Not only is your post a mess, but no. Juggernauts just are not unkillable, their DCDs are NOTHING like what the Mercs had (have) when compared to their offense. Hell, I disagree with KendraP regarding, well, just about everything, but you are just out of it.

[Mournblood]

Hi Mourne! Need a healbot?

 

I do! But if I bring you to the Dark side, Kendra will hunt me down in real life and hurt me.

[KendraP]

I do! But if I bring you to the Dark side, Kendra will hunt me down in real life and hurt me.

 

i've been conquest capping 8 toons lately! if we went imp side i'd have to (horror) play my PT tanks XD

well maybe anyway

[Vissionary]

i've been conquest capping 8 toons lately! if we went imp side i'd have to (horror) play my PT tanks XD

well maybe anyway

 

Don’t you have like 8 Juggs??

[KendraP]

Don’t you have like 8 Juggs??

 

12 guardians 6 juggies XD

[TrixxieTriss]

12 guardians 6 juggies XD

 

LoL, you’re as bad as me.

 

Across the servers I have 7 Juggs and 6 Guardians. I had more, but I recently deleted some to make room for a few more Assassins.

Edited June 13, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[KendraP]

LoL, you’re as bad as me.

 

Across the servers I have 7 Juggs and 6 Guardians. I had more, but I recently deleted some to make room for a few more Assassins.

 

sadly that's just on SS. I'd have to go look and see how many i have on SF

[Yezzan]

I am pretty sure Jedi Guardians were the most created class ever, when Bioware did a class statistics some years ago.

 

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20141126?sf34098264=1

 

Juggs were 3rd

[Kurj]

I am pretty sure Jedi Guardians were the most created class ever, when Bioware did a class statistics some years ago.

 

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20141126?sf34098264=1

 

Juggs were 3rd

 

These numbers are from 2014, but I was curious if there is data to suggest that they make more popular classes OP, maybe to encourage the "typical" new player. I'm sure more knowledgeable players will take issue with my assessment of "OP" classes, so comments are welcome. This is based solely on my experience solo queuing regs, and it's just for fun. Besides, it beats discussing matchmaking changes:

 

Knights/Warriors (17,960,864): Immortal/Defense and Fury/Concentration would be my picks for currently OP among the warrior classes. I have very little experience with Fury, but I've played a skank for almost 3 years now. The recent nerfs did literally nothing to jugg skanks except make them the top-tier tank in PVP. Without matchmaking, they can completely disrupt a warzone. I don't see as many maras as juggs, and my limited experience on one suggests to me that, as simple as fury is supposed to be compared to carnage, it is far less forgiving than a skank, so less prone to abuse by the masses.

 

Inquisitor/Consular (17,371,716): Seer/Corruption. I've got limited playtime on one, but once you have your DCDs and procs down, you are effective and survivable even with s**t gear. Truly skilled seers who know how to make full use of the class's mobility are a nightmare in regs. DPS types have my sympathies.

 

Troopers/Hunters (13,158,969): Mandos and Mercs, both DPS specs. IO is a little more complicated, but the DCDs make both specs highly effective with s**t gear. Bodyguard seems to do fine in regs, but the discussions I see here suggest it's very easy to shut down in ranked. I wouldn't call it OP, but that's just me.

 

Agents/Smugglers (11,420,164): Engineering seems to be the only OP spec here. MM is easy to shut down, and I don't know enough about virulence to comment. Scrapper/conc is deadly in the right hands, but it seems to have a high skill cap (at least to me), so not usually a problem in regs. Medicine/Sawbones seems to fall into the same category. Can be very powerful, but only in the right hands. I wouldn't call either OP.

 

So, my theory is not supported by the 2014 data, although maybe folks who were PVPing back then can comment on changes. The 2 most popular base classes each have OP classes, although I would figure that most new players picking sage/sorc would pick DPS rather than heals. Agent/smuggler has some powerful specs, but the nerf to engi seems to have cleared out most of the FOTM players, and conc/medicine seem to have a high skill cap that is well beyond the average regs player. Troopers/hunters seem to take the prize, based on DCDs alone, which makes them incredibly forgiving in regs.

[Sith-Viscera]

Let's face the facts here. When Warzones are 70% Jugg/Guardian there is a problem.

 

I seen 6 mercs on one side the other day. and other times i have seen 5 Gunslingers, 5 Maras 5 Sentinel and usually all on one side, maybe the other side might have 1. i have seen 4 or 5 juggs too but i do not see Juggs Guards all the time i just dont. If i am lucky i have a balance team on both sides once every 6 times of playing unrank pvp... Dont get me started on ranked pvp and 2 or 3 healers on one side and other none. DONT GET ME STARTED!

 

So must just be you. like this is probably just me that get teams like i said.