Conquest Changes in Game Update 5.9

[Quraswren]

bioware....

 

Quite possibility the only company that creates an entire game around making alts. Alts to see the stories for each. To play events over and over as well as them creating specific events that encourage you to make more and more alts for rewards.

 

Then in moment of stupidity. bioware turns an event like conquest into something that hinders you playing those alts you have built over the years.

 

boggles the mind.

 

and the worst part is exactly what we thought it was going to be. bioware plans to keep this garbage and we're stuck with the current worst version for another month and it will be even longer before it ever gets close to even the minimum acceptability of something decent.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Quraswren

[DarthSpuds]

@ERIC!!

 

So I think I just had a lightbulb about the disconnect between you guys and us on the per-legacy restriction.

 

Yeah so have I.

 

We want us to have fun, they don't.

 

 

All The Best

[Ibokagain]

I think what is most helpful for us (and many of you on the forums have been doing this) is providing specifically what you felt you could do on alts previously, that you can't do now. This way we can look at the areas where you feel the changes are impacting your daily play and ability to play multiple characters.

-eric

 

The below post answers your above question.

 

You did not add a daily objective for Operations - that existed before and was NOT once per legacy.

 

You did not add a daily objective for PvP - that existed before and was NOT once per legacy.

 

These and many other examples make me wonder if you knew how your previous conquest system even worked?

 

More clearly put:

Crafting an Invasion Force on non-crafting weeks was once per legacy per week

Killing Enemy Commanders or Turrets/Guards (when available) was once per legacy per week

Rampage Objectives - kill 250 NPCs (when available) was once per legacy per week

 

So yes... there were some objectives that were once per legacy per week. But there were many that were NOT, including:

 

Now One time per day per legacy, was previously repeatable on multiple characters:

PvP: win a match, participation

GSF: win a match, participation

Flashpoints: be eligible for daily quest from terminal and complete

Operations: Daily group finder completion

Planetary Heroics

 

Now one time per week per legacy, previously once per week per character:

Galactic Flashpoints Weekly

Warzone weekly (for unranked this is 20 matches!)

GSF Weekly (7 matches!)

 

And you've also included the GSI weekly (10 missions + a heroic mission) - once per legacy per week.

 

You can only complete the weekly once per week anyway, why is it legacy restricted? If I want to complete 40 warzone matches, why do I have to do it on one single character for it to have any impact on conquest for my guild?

 

A multitude of examples where I don't know that you guys really understand where we're coming from or get that the per-legacy requirement was a HUGE change to the system!

 

.

 

Do this ^

[DarthSpuds]

bioware....

 

Quite possibility the only company that creates an entire game around making alts. Alts to see the stories for each. To play events over and over as well as them creating specific events that encourage you to make more and more alts for rewards.

 

Then in moment of stupidity. bioware turns an event like conquest into something that hinders you playing those alts you have built over the years.

 

Bobbles the mind.

 

They did the same with Command Crates.

 

Spent 6 months incentivising us to make Alts with the DvL event, and then made gearing up Alts almost impossible.

 

No one in that office has any clue what joined-up-thinking even means, much less has a clue how to do it.

 

All The Best

[Quraswren]

They did the same with Command Crates.

 

Spent 6 months incentivising us to make Alts with the DvL event, and then made gearing up Alts almost impossible.

 

No one in that office has any clue what joined-up-thinking even means, much less has a clue how to do it.

 

All The Best

 

I'm starting to think you are right. I don't think any of them have a clue what to do much less how.

 

Anyone that works there and has seen the old conquest system and then looks at the new one and still has to ask this:

SNIP...

 

I think what is most helpful for us (and many of you on the forums have been doing this) is providing specifically what you felt you could do on alts previously, that you can't do now. This way we can look at the areas where you feel the changes are impacting your daily play and ability to play multiple characters.

SNIP...

-eric

 

Tells me they are just clueless. They are incapable of looking at both events and seeing the difference and need us the gamers to point it out to them. Sadly we have to point out things like pennyAnn post:

 

Quote: Originally Posted by PennyAnn View Post

You did not add a daily objective for Operations - that existed before and was NOT once per legacy.

You did not add a daily objective for PvP - that existed before and was NOT once per legacy.

 

because they apparently can't see it. Did they even play the old conquest. Unable to see what they screwed up and removed and then replaced with an inferior conquest system. Of course there are more than just the two mentioned above but I guess someone will have to lead bioware by the hand to see them.

 

They really didn't think much and are clueless on this stuff.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Quraswren

[masterceil]

I railed against Nu Conquest pretty hard when 5.8 dropped (earning myself a strike here for cussing you out <.<). Yall made some improvements in 5.8a, which I appreciate, and it looks like things will get even better with 5.9. I like that you're looking at new objectives to add (showin' GSI some love, even!), and definitely appreciate you upping the point values on my beloved GSF.

 

I was worried when I saw "Kill Last Ops Boss" as a new objective - my two least favourite Conquest techniques are craft factories and lockout farming (note: I have all six craft skills and I'm a capable raider - this isn't about whether or not I, personally, can do the objectives, but about how far out of balance these objectives were tilting the scales in Conquest). But, that's a once-daily, so no major issues there : )

 

Appreciate you scopin' our feedback, Musco et al. Things won't be perfect even with the nice changes coming in 5.9, but yall seem to be listening. Just keep that up! Months of silence from you and Kanneg and everyone else on the team was pretty disheartening, as a long-time fan of your game. You're starting to pick up steam again, like you did when Kanneg first got promoted. Don't drop the ball!

[AngFour]

Why does this feel like the new Galactic Command? Right down to being hostile to Alts (until it gets fixed in a year that is).

 

Jeez, and I don't even DO conquest and your deaf ears are rubbing me the wrong way because I was THINKING about doing it...until I saw what a mess it's become.

 

Keith,

 

Don't let this be YOUR Galactic Command. People were happy to see Ben go away, remember? Get some hearing aids and, for the love of god, LISTEN to your players!

[PennyAnn]

Yeah so have I.

 

We want us to have fun, they don't.

 

 

All The Best

 

Hehehehehe, Spuds! I'm trying to turn on the lightbulb over there! C'mon man!

[Quraswren]

Why does this feel like the new Galactic Command? Right down to being hostile to Alts (until it gets fixed in a year that is).

 

Jeez, and I don't even DO conquest and your deaf ears are rubbing me the wrong way because I was THINKING about doing it...until I saw what a mess it's become.

 

Keith,

 

Don't let this be YOUR Galactic Command. People were happy to see Ben go away, remember? Get some hearing aids and, for the love of god, LISTEN to your players!

 

You are not the only one that sees that truth in the current situation. Sad part is knowing this will be biowares go to yearly event as they make changes to conquest over and over than in the end will be all to similar to what we already had befoer they started.

[Damask_Rose]

The Eric & Charles interview will be starting soon. I think the side chat will be popcorn worthy

[HKtheindomitable]

Good question, let me try to lend some clarity to that question. The pre-5.8 Conquest system worked almost identically in this regard. Objectives were either infinitely repeatable, or you could only complete them one time per Legacy. The only "restriction" change that happened with 5.8 is we added Daily Objectives, and then shuffled around what Objectives fell into what category. Technically, the system is either infinite, or by Legacy, there isn't actually a "by character" component to Objectives. Which may seem strange since Conquest points are tracked by character, but Objectives are all Legacy based.

 

Now, this could mean that when we reshuffled, we ended up with too many Objectives which had Legacy restrictions. That would hamper the viability of alts which definitely seems to be the feedback we are hearing. We can continue to address that by adding more Objectives which can be infinitely repeated. This would directly mirror the alt viability of the pre-5.8 system, which was separated only by repeatable and once per Legacy.

 

I think what is most helpful for us (and many of you on the forums have been doing this) is providing specifically what you felt you could do on alts previously, that you can't do now. This way we can look at the areas where you feel the changes are impacting your daily play and ability to play multiple characters.

 

My post ended up longer than I planned, but hopefully that adds some clarity.

 

-eric

 

It does. Thank you.

 

I'm game for it. Since there are so many legacy restricted objectives, more infinitely repeatable missions should balance things out.

 

I won't even pretend that it will fix everything, because that's not realistic. But I'm willing to give it a try.

[MacCleoud]

Hey folks,

• The “Kill 50 enemies” Daily Objective will be worth 400 points
  
• The “Kill 100 enemies” Daily Objective will be worth 600 points
  
• The “Kill 150 enemies” Daily Objective will be worth 825 points
  

 

Question on this piece. Are these additive? So in the end, I get 1825 points for killing 150 enemies if i do them all on one toon, or I can kill 50 on one toon, and then 100 on another and 150 on a third?

Edited March 30, 2018 by MacCleoud

[longislandboater]

They have to see all the people un subbing over this.

[MacCleoud]

They have to see all the people un subbing over this.

 

They are working on it. They are making changes to this faster than they were to GC.

[IshtarScorpio]

[*]We are introducing a new Daily Repeatable Objective to “Defeat the Final Boss in an Operation.”

 

 

Soooo....lockouts.

 

All you had to do was to make sure that you had to beat each boss in an operation to kill lockouts, while ensuring the points went to running the whole operation.

 

It's important to note that certain lockout runners have dropped right off the leader board list since lockouts got nerfed.

Edited March 30, 2018 by IshtarScorpio

[Exly]

Hey folks,

 

With the 5.8a Conquest changes out the door, let’s talk about what we have planned for 5.9. We hope to address concerns over the viability of completing Conquests on alts, points for crafting, and ability to run Operations more frequently. We are going to address this through a few different changes:

• Increasing points gains for Objectives for repeatable and daily repeatable Objectives.
  
• An additional buff for GSF, Warzone, and Flashpoint Participation Objectives.
  
  • The “Play a Flashpoint” Objective is being changed to “Play a Flashpoint or Uprising.”
    

  [*]The “Kill X Enemies” Daily Objective will now be split into three Objectives. Kill 50 / 100 / 150. Additionally, progress on this Objective will not reset everyday (if you killed 40 enemies, it won’t reset back to 0).

  [*]We are going to introduce a new repeatable Daily Objective for completing 3 and 5 Activity Finder Activities (FP, Op, WZ, GSF, Uprising).

  [*]We are introducing a new Daily Repeatable Objective to “Defeat the Final Boss in an Operation.”

  [*]We are introducing a new repeatable Objective for “Craft 50 items."

  • This Objective gives another path for crafters to earn points and is also a mechanism for characters of any level to participate. We will monitor the number of items required to craft closely and will make changes in the future if it is too high, or too low.
    

 

The goal of these changes is that if you complete the bigger value one-time Objectives on a given character, you have a lot more ability to earn points via repeatable Objectives. Not only are there more Objectives to work towards, they are worth more points as well. One of our goals is to encourage that you play multiple types of content and so that will always remain the most optimal path to Conquest points. However, these changes will allow a player to more easily get their Conquest points even if they just play one type of content on repeat.

 

As always, keep your feedback coming! We will continue to monitor the state of Conquests and make changes as needed. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

Detailed breakdown of changes:

 

Each Objective falls into one of three categories: Repeatable, Daily Repeatable, and One-time. Inside of each category, there are three point tiers: low, medium and high. Here are the new values (these are base values, without including Stronghold bonus).

 

Repeatable

• Low is now 120, up from 85
  
• Medium is now 180, up from 130
  
• High is now 290, up from 205
  

 

Daily

• Low is now 400, up from 330
  
• Medium is now 600, up from 500
  
• High is now 825, up from 750
  

 

Repeatable Objective Changes

• Complete a Warzone Objective is now worth 180, up from 85
  
• Complete a GSF Match Objective is now worth 180, up from 85
  
• Complete a FP or Uprising is now worth 290, up from 130
  

 

New Objectives

• The “Kill 50 enemies” Daily Objective will be worth 400 points
  
• The “Kill 100 enemies” Daily Objective will be worth 600 points
  
• The “Kill 150 enemies” Daily Objective will be worth 825 points
  
• The “Complete 3 Activity Finder Activities” Daily Objective will be worth 400 points
  
• The “Complete 5 Activity Finder Activities” Daily Objective will be worth 825 points
  
• The “Kill the Final Boss of an Operation” Daily Objective will be worth 825 points
  
• The “Craft 50 Items” Repeatable Objective will be worth 120 points
  

 

PS - Usual disclaimer that these could change prior to 5.9, but I will let you know of any updates I hear.

 

Once again I say that this is a load of rubbish.

 

You are not even trying to solve the problem that you created with the changes that you made, or at least you are not even close to what I would consider an honest attempt.

 

Instead it's a watered down version of what many of us in the forums have asked for.

 

Why is that?

 

I'm guessing that you don't really care about giving us what we are asking for, or quite possibly, you are not smart enough to understand what we are asking for in the first place.

 

Now I won't speak for others, but it seems to me like the solution to fix the problem can be found by doing two things on your end.

 

1. Increase the point values awarded for completing a conquest objective to the amount that you offered prior to introducing the new system (including the amount for the invasion bonus), and

2. Take away all legacy restrictions for repeatable objectives.

 

It really is that simple. Why won't you just do it?

Edited March 30, 2018 by Exly

[IshtarScorpio]

They are working on it. They are making changes to this faster than they were to GC.

 

lol

 

The fact that they have introduced changes to this game not once, but twice of such epic fail shows that 1) they don't know how the game actually works from a player perspective and 2) may not even know too much about Star Wars itself.

 

I'd have more respect for them if they just admitted they are running out the clock on the game until they can unload the license on someone else.

[IshtarScorpio]

Once again I say that this is a load of rubbish.

 

You are not even trying to solve the problem that you created with the changes that you made, or at least not even close to what I would consider an honest attempt.

 

Instead it's a watered down version of what many of us in the forums have asked for.

 

Why is that?

 

I'm guessing that you don't really care about giving us what we are asking for, or quite possibly, you are not smart enough to understand what we are asking for in the first place.

 

Now I won't speak for others, but it seems to me like the solution to fix the problem can be found by doing two things on your end.

 

1. Increase the point values awarded for completing a conquest objective to the amount that you offered prior to introducing the new system (including the amount for the invasion bonus), and

2. Take away all legacy restrictions for repeatable objectives.

 

It really is that simple. Why won't you just do it?

 

It's what they always do. They give us a steaming sh%t sandwich, then after we complain, they give us a small side salad to go with it.

 

Unfortunately there are so many people who get the side salad and think it's a dramatic solution.

[Manjaca]

Crafting 50 items is for you worth 120 Points?

 

Is this a April Joke Bioware??

 

Do you play your own game? Do you once in the life of this game have farmed mats for crafting? This only can be a April Joke!

 

 

New Objectives

 

The “Kill 50 enemies” Daily Objective will be worth 400 points

The “Kill 100 enemies” Daily Objective will be worth 600 points

The “Kill 150 enemies” Daily Objective will be worth 825 points

The “Complete 3 Activity Finder Activities” Daily Objective will be worth 400 points

The “Complete 5 Activity Finder Activities” Daily Objective will be worth 825 points

The “Kill the Final Boss of an Operation” Daily Objective will be worth 825 points

The “Craft 50 Items” Repeatable Objective will be worth 120 points

[olagatonjedi]

So I will not be crafting Invasion forces at their current mat cost. They require far too many mats now.

 

You also obviously DO NOT get the point that over 100 pages on multiple threads are pointing out to you - People want to play Alts. They want to play alts how they want - Not how you want!

 

Punishing them for playing a game style they like and want to play is extremely counter-productive to the point it defies logic.

 

So whatever imbecile is coming up with these grand ideas... sack them now, and listen to the players instead - your game might actually flourish if you did.

Using your way of thinking, they might as well nerf nim ops because "people want to play the game the way they want, not the way BW wants...." These arguments are just ridiculous sometimes.

 

You joined THEIR game, and you pay THEM to design the game. If you want power over how the game is designed become a dev.

[olagatonjedi]

Dear Eric,

 

The old conquest system was not about legacy.:

What does the old system have to do with the new system? People weren't happy with the old system, so they developed a new one. Any and all rules, restrictions, point values, participation, etc that the old system had is irrelevant to the new system.

 

It's a system all on its own.

[Darevsool]

They will give these changes like 6 weeks. We're 2 weeks in. Even if people "quit" (lol the most useless threat and debate point on a forum where people are 99% full ofs hit about it), only around 1/12th of the playerbase will actually see their sub run out in the test window.

 

I bet we see a somewhat sensible system in place within just a few more weeks. They can't exactly put this on a test server, because they need the entire population of the game to beta test these conquest changes. Keep gnashing your teeth for the cathartic value of it, if you must, but don't think for a second that your lamentations mean anything substantive to the decision making processes at BWA. The data will tell the tale, and we don't get to see that. They do. I trust they'll have exactly they system they want in place within a few more weeks of iterations.

 

As one of the people who cancelled their subs (I had 2 of them) it isn't about the loss of revenue. I would presume that at some level a report is run on the cancellation poll. What were the reasons given? How many account cancellations are saying the same thing...things like that. I am also presuming that those reports, especially if they are numerous enough, get paid attention to.

At my job, customer service reports like that ARE paid attention to, and if there are enough people saying the same thing, changes are looked at.

[Loadsamonie]

Daily per legacy or daily per toon? Could you please address the question anyone with an alt actually cares about?

 

And if the answer is per legacy can you just go back to the drawing board, because then you still don't get it.

 

The point of these changes was to quell the incentive to mass-farm Conquest on alts, not encourage it. This was a deliberate change, and a good one IMHO. This will discourage players from trying to grind out 200k Conquest a week for their guild across 20 different toons.

 

That said, Eric, what are you guys planning to do about Skank Tanks?

Edited March 30, 2018 by Loadsamonie

[Darevsool]

To me, it doesn't even matter. 50 items for 120 points? I can't see how it would be worth it, even if you crafted the absolutely cheapest possible item.

 

One thing this might do is make Augment kits cheaper. If people are crafting regular items for conquest points, the RE'ing them, they can sell the RE material for other people to craft into kits, or make the kits themselves.

[Euphrosyne]

The point of these changes was to quell the incentive to mass-farm Conquest on alts, not encourage it. This was a deliberate change, and a good one IMHO. This will discourage players from trying to grind out 200k Conquest a week for their guild across 20 different toons.

Discouraging players from playing the game is a good thing? I suppose that's certainly a perspective to have.