Conquest Changes in Game Update 5.9

[PennyAnn]

Basically, yes. They ask for feedback to give feedback-giving folks the idea that their feedback matters. Forum feedback only has a single real utility for a game developer with an MMO: it gives flavor and context to the data they have on the backend. So if suddenly everyone gives up on conquest and the game loses players, and the devs can't figure out why, then your lamentations will color their interpretation of their own data. But if you guys could see how many times the forum-base trumpeted the end of all things and massive waves of cancelled subs against the number of times those waves actually happened ... /shrug

 

It is true that the forums have predicted the death of this game clear back to two months after it launched and here we still are. But your example of Galactic Command in the next segment of your comment serves as reminder. They broke a perfectly good system and had to spend a year fixing it. The producer who broke that system was fired and replaced with Keith. I haven't seen a backlash to a system being completely changed so prevalent since Galactic Command until now. Our "lamentations" as you so belittlingly describe them constitute 2 very large threads of discussion amongst more posters than "the usual suspects" around here. They can ignore that, and you can belittle that if you like, but if it isn't more significant than "coloring their impressions of the data" that the forums exploded over these changes, then they truly can't be helped... and will deserve the "too little too late" chastisement once it eventually comes if they don't figure this out and start listening to more than just data.

 

In a lot of instances, you are right about the forums being overly dramatic. This case, much like Galactic Command, justifies the outcry from the population... plus they asked for feedback and they are getting it.

 

Do you remember the Galactic Command system? BWA is no stranger to wasted development time. Just because I offer an explanation for the changes does not mean I endorse them. Also, you'll forgive me, I hope, if I take your "my guild is dead because of conquest changes" statement with a grain of salt.

 

I didn't say my guild was dead, and you don't have to believe me. It really makes no difference to you or to me at the end of the day. I just offer my observations: people in my guild have legitimately quit over these changes, and even more (myself included) are playing the game less in favor of other games or activities... because of these changes.

 

If that's the desired result, then we are on absolutely the right track here.

 

.

Edited March 30, 2018 by PennyAnn

[TrooperRCH]

So in other words, no new content. Got it.

[cyrusramsey]

Not seeing how conquest is going to be worth my time again. Increasing "almost nothing" with ~40% still keeps it at "almost nothing" levels. No viability for multiple characters this way.

 

Try again?

[PorsaLindahl]

Here are some more fundamental flaws in the new system:

 

Scenario

I'm a new player around level 30. My crew skills are Artifice, Archaeology and Underworld (all 250-300). I have 1 stronghold, but can't afford to expand on it. I joined a guild and want to help them with conquest.

 

1. I can't do Operations.
   
2. I can't do Uprisings.
   
3. I can't do the weeklies because I need to be level 50 for Black Hole and Section X, 52 for Makeb, 53 for CZ-198, 55 for Oricon, 60 for Yavin-4 and 65 for Ziost.
   
4. I can't do the GSI Missions.
   
5. I can't craft War Supplies because they take top tier resources.
   
6. I can't craft Invasion Forces.
   
7. I can't craft Dark Projects because I don't get Command Tokens so I can't purchase Iokath Recombinators.
   

 

This leaves me limited to Veteran Flashpoints, GSF and PvP. Doing those dailies and completing the weeklies on those, taking into consideration no wins in PvP, I would earn approximately 7150 points. Even if my guild reaches it's goal, I'll still miss out on the personal reward, and it won't be for a lack of trying.

 

Conquest shouldn't be limited to end-game.

 

Conquest objectives shouldn't be locked behind legacy unless all characters in the legacy can benefit from it.

Edited March 30, 2018 by PorsaLindahl

[DarthDymond]

So in other words, no new content. Got it.

The new content for this update was announced a while back:

[May 1] – Game Update 5.9 - The Nathema Conspiracy

Flashpoint:

• This year’s story has shown the final ramifications of the path that Valkorion first chose when he devastated Nathema, so it’s only natural that we go there to bring that story to its exciting conclusion.
  
• We’ve added powerful new Augments for those who need additional stats to help take down Izax in Master Mode. Or, you simply want to be OP! In this new Flashpoint, we’ll provide legacy-based Crafting Patterns (Bind-on-Pickup – BOP) which will drop randomly off mobs and Bosses. If you’re one of the lucky ones, you may also find a Bind-on-Equip (BOE) version of the same patterns. We’ll follow up with the materials needed to craft the Augments.
  

 

Operations:

• Izax offers an amazing new reward
  
• We are providing a new vendor just outside the Gods from the Machine Operation offering special items to those players who have earned an achievement for killing Izax, The Destroyer.
  

 

Companions:

• Companion Return: Felix Iresso – The Jedi Consular’s loyal soldier has had a rough time these last few years – can the Consular help him?
  
• Companion Return: Mako and Akaavi - Bounty Hunters and Smugglers are reunited with this duo, who’ve been working together during the players’ absence.
  

Edited March 30, 2018 by DarthDymond

[KendraP]

Hey folks,

 

With the 5.8a Conquest changes out the door, let’s talk about what we have planned for 5.9. We hope to address concerns over the viability of completing Conquests on alts, points for crafting, and ability to run Operations more frequently. We are going to address this through a few different changes:

• Increasing points gains for Objectives for repeatable and daily repeatable Objectives.
  
• An additional buff for GSF, Warzone, and Flashpoint Participation Objectives.
  
  • The “Play a Flashpoint” Objective is being changed to “Play a Flashpoint or Uprising.”
    

  [*]The “Kill X Enemies” Daily Objective will now be split into three Objectives. Kill 50 / 100 / 150. Additionally, progress on this Objective will not reset everyday (if you killed 40 enemies, it won’t reset back to 0).

  [*]We are going to introduce a new repeatable Daily Objective for completing 3 and 5 Activity Finder Activities (FP, Op, WZ, GSF, Uprising).

  [*]We are introducing a new Daily Repeatable Objective to “Defeat the Final Boss in an Operation.”

  [*]We are introducing a new repeatable Objective for “Craft 50 items."

  • This Objective gives another path for crafters to earn points and is also a mechanism for characters of any level to participate. We will monitor the number of items required to craft closely and will make changes in the future if it is too high, or too low.
    

 

The goal of these changes is that if you complete the bigger value one-time Objectives on a given character, you have a lot more ability to earn points via repeatable Objectives. Not only are there more Objectives to work towards, they are worth more points as well. One of our goals is to encourage that you play multiple types of content and so that will always remain the most optimal path to Conquest points. However, these changes will allow a player to more easily get their Conquest points even if they just play one type of content on repeat.

 

As always, keep your feedback coming! We will continue to monitor the state of Conquests and make changes as needed. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

Detailed breakdown of changes:

 

Each Objective falls into one of three categories: Repeatable, Daily Repeatable, and One-time. Inside of each category, there are three point tiers: low, medium and high. Here are the new values (these are base values, without including Stronghold bonus).

 

Repeatable

• Low is now 120, up from 85
  
• Medium is now 180, up from 130
  
• High is now 290, up from 205
  

 

Daily

• Low is now 400, up from 330
  
• Medium is now 600, up from 500
  
• High is now 825, up from 750
  

 

Repeatable Objective Changes

• Complete a Warzone Objective is now worth 180, up from 85
  
• Complete a GSF Match Objective is now worth 180, up from 85
  
• Complete a FP or Uprising is now worth 290, up from 130
  

 

New Objectives

• The “Kill 50 enemies” Daily Objective will be worth 400 points
  
• The “Kill 100 enemies” Daily Objective will be worth 600 points
  
• The “Kill 150 enemies” Daily Objective will be worth 825 points
  
• The “Complete 3 Activity Finder Activities” Daily Objective will be worth 400 points
  
• The “Complete 5 Activity Finder Activities” Daily Objective will be worth 825 points
  
• The “Kill the Final Boss of an Operation” Daily Objective will be worth 825 points
  
• The “Craft 50 Items” Repeatable Objective will be worth 120 points
  

 

PS - Usual disclaimer that these could change prior to 5.9, but I will let you know of any updates I hear.

 

These changes are certainly a step in the right direction. I wpuld like to know, however, why the daily repeatable objectives cannot be per character.

 

And while I know we will never get an answer, please consider engaging with the community before you make massive changes. Something of this magnitude, you had to know peoole were going to be pissed off.

[Rankyn]

I would like to see Conquest points awarded in the form of Legacy-bound consumable tokens similar to unassembled components.

 

Multiple tokens should be consumable at a time.

They would expire and disappear from our inventories during the Conquest off day.

- Be sure there is no room for exploiting this by storing them in the mail or stopping the timer when the server is down.

- Maybe make a different type of token for each Conquest as a failsafe so 1) the same Conquest won't run back to back and 2) there won't be any confusion about which token belongs to which Conquest.

 

This would allow us to complete the objectives on ANY character but actually earn the points on the character of our choice.

 

Would it allow someone with lots of alts to farm points and funnel them all to one character to boost that character's guild?

Yes, but so what?

There is nothing to keep them from putting all those alts in that guild for the same outcome and it's balanced by the fact that those alts are still restricted from repeating the objectives for more points.

 

The gross number of points earned remains the same, the only thing that changes is that the player is more in control of how they are distributed.

[EricMusco]

Thank you for the clarity on that.

 

Query: Why are Daily Repeatables once per day, per *legacy*, rather than per toon?

 

The reason I ask, is because it makes sense for the one-time to be per legacy. But the daily does not. Even if it were restricted to five or ten toons, it would still make more sense than Legacy only. And this is what we have the hardest time understanding.

 

Good question, let me try to lend some clarity to that question. The pre-5.8 Conquest system worked almost identically in this regard. Objectives were either infinitely repeatable, or you could only complete them one time per Legacy. The only "restriction" change that happened with 5.8 is we added Daily Objectives, and then shuffled around what Objectives fell into what category. Technically, the system is either infinite, or by Legacy, there isn't actually a "by character" component to Objectives. Which may seem strange since Conquest points are tracked by character, but Objectives are all Legacy based.

 

Now, this could mean that when we reshuffled, we ended up with too many Objectives which had Legacy restrictions. That would hamper the viability of alts which definitely seems to be the feedback we are hearing. We can continue to address that by adding more Objectives which can be infinitely repeated. This would directly mirror the alt viability of the pre-5.8 system, which was separated only by repeatable and once per Legacy.

 

I think what is most helpful for us (and many of you on the forums have been doing this) is providing specifically what you felt you could do on alts previously, that you can't do now. This way we can look at the areas where you feel the changes are impacting your daily play and ability to play multiple characters.

 

My post ended up longer than I planned, but hopefully that adds some clarity.

 

-eric

[PorsaLindahl]

Good question, let me try to lend some clarity to that question. The pre-5.8 Conquest system worked almost identically in this regard. Objectives were either infinitely repeatable, or you could only complete them one time per Legacy. The only "restriction" change that happened with 5.8 is we added Daily Objectives, and then shuffled around what Objectives fell into what category. Technically, the system is either infinite, or by Legacy, there isn't actually a "by character" component to Objectives. Which may seem strange since Conquest points are tracked by character, but Objectives are all Legacy based.

 

Now, this could mean that when we reshuffled, we ended up with too many Objectives which had Legacy restrictions. That would hamper the viability of alts which definitely seems to be the feedback we are hearing. We can continue to address that by adding more Objectives which can be infinitely repeated. This would directly mirror the alt viability of the pre-5.8 system, which was separated only by repeatable and once per Legacy.

 

I think what is most helpful for us (and many of you on the forums have been doing this) is providing specifically what you felt you could do on alts previously, that you can't do now. This way we can look at the areas where you feel the changes are impacting your daily play and ability to play multiple characters.

 

My post ended up longer than I planned, but hopefully that adds some clarity.

 

-eric

 

That green text is the smartest thing you've said, IMO, in the last 2 weeks.

[Lhancelot]

You're right. I'm sure this is why it's being done. Let's just accept though the flawed (IMO) assumption that mega-guilds are bad for the game (I'm on the other extreme, happily in a trivial, mostly-inactive guild, that will never rank in conquest). Let's accept this and work through where it necessarily leads. For "mega guilds" to dominate the previous system, they used both numbers of legacies AND alts per legacy to do so.

 

The alts-per-legacy piece meant that after maxing a toon, these hardcore players would roll another toon and queue pvp, do crafting, run FPs, etc. again and so on. That activity means that other players, from hardcore to casual, get to experience an active MMO environment. This is, in the abstract a good thing. None of this is controversial (I hope).

 

Now, the "price" for this, allegedly is that smaller guilds couldn't compete due to the (alts/legacy)*(legacy numbers) disadvantage. So the equation is: (alts/legacy)*(number of legacies) = total conquest capacity. This was presumably the bad thing that needed fixing. The solution put forth now removes one of the inputs, leaving us with: (number of legacies) = total conquest capacity. Without getting overly esoteric, it's hard to see (upfront, even before trying this) how it's not clear that mega-guilds will still have essentially the same advantage (maybe even more so, but that's in the weeds). So this is where I get stuck - what am I missing?

 

And remember, we still have to weigh this change with the cost of dropping activity generally. So yeah, I just wish I could get a clear explanation from the devs, cuz I honestly cannot see it on my own...

 

This is how I see it 100%. Good post.

[DarthSpuds]

Good question, let me try to lend some clarity to that question. The pre-5.8 Conquest system worked almost identically in this regard. Objectives were either infinitely repeatable, or you could only complete them one time per Legacy. The only "restriction" change that happened with 5.8 is we added Daily Objectives, and then shuffled around what Objectives fell into what category.

 

-eric

 

That is disingenuous twaddle.

 

Pre 5.8 there were tons of things that were Infinitely Repeatable, no things that were Daily Repeatable, and a few OPL (once per legacy).

 

Post 5.8 there are tons of things that are OPL, some things that are Daily Repeatable, and very few that is Infinitely Repeatable.

 

AND on top of that you reduce the Conquest Point rewards by an average of 80%.

 

5.8 meant that on average to get the same payout you had to put almost 8 times as much effort (time/resources/ect).

 

5.8a bring that back a bit to about 5 times as much effort as pre-5.8.

 

Every goal you had reported as being what was desired of the Conquest revamp has been ignored, in fact in almost all cases you have achieved the opposite of what you claimed to want to achieve.

 

Conquest is NOT more rewarding!

Conquest is NOT more inclusive!

Conquest is NOT more fun!

 

Whoever you are listening to (because it is clearly not us players) is manifestly leading you down the wrong path - assuming that stated goals for Conquest were even partially honest.

 

All The Best

[LordTurin]

Good question, let me try to lend some clarity to that question. The pre-5.8 Conquest system worked almost identically in this regard. Objectives were either infinitely repeatable, or you could only complete them one time per Legacy. The only "restriction" change that happened with 5.8 is we added Daily Objectives, and then shuffled around what Objectives fell into what category. Technically, the system is either infinite, or by Legacy, there isn't actually a "by character" component to Objectives. Which may seem strange since Conquest points are tracked by character, but Objectives are all Legacy based.

 

Now, this could mean that when we reshuffled, we ended up with too many Objectives which had Legacy restrictions. That would hamper the viability of alts which definitely seems to be the feedback we are hearing. We can continue to address that by adding more Objectives which can be infinitely repeated. This would directly mirror the alt viability of the pre-5.8 system, which was separated only by repeatable and once per Legacy.

 

I think what is most helpful for us (and many of you on the forums have been doing this) is providing specifically what you felt you could do on alts previously, that you can't do now. This way we can look at the areas where you feel the changes are impacting your daily play and ability to play multiple characters.

 

My post ended up longer than I planned, but hopefully that adds some clarity.

 

-eric

 

Here are the list of things that we could do on alts previously that we can't anymore for this week:

 

Now One time per day per legacy:

1. Group Finder: Operations

2. Warzones: Total Domination

Now one time per week per legacy:

1. Critical Missions: Galactic Flashpoints

2. Starfighter: Critical Missions

3. Warzones: Critical Missions

4. Critical Missions: Operations

 

These are all bad changes. It kills interest in alts completely (really? 1 weekly can be completed per legacy? This is just absurd, weeklies already had a cap of once per week per character and that was fine), and kills interest in doing more than 1 operation or 1 wz a day basically.

[Krazhez]

We are introducing a new repeatable Objective for “Craft 50 items."

 

Is this craft anything?

 

Also

What about the weekies that used to be able to be done with your alts. Those you can't do anymore.

 

And please fix Makeb. It has been quite some time that the Makeb stage weekly was in the game but yet the conquest still states that and if you do the weekly that we have now it doesn't work for the conquest. This has been long pass time to be fixed.

[PennyAnn]

Good question, let me try to lend some clarity to that question. The pre-5.8 Conquest system worked almost identically in this regard. Objectives were either infinitely repeatable, or you could only complete them one time per Legacy. The only "restriction" change that happened with 5.8 is we added Daily Objectives, and then shuffled around what Objectives fell into what category. Technically, the system is either infinite, or by Legacy, there isn't actually a "by character" component to Objectives. Which may seem strange since Conquest points are tracked by character, but Objectives are all Legacy based.

 

Now, this could mean that when we reshuffled, we ended up with too many Objectives which had Legacy restrictions. That would hamper the viability of alts which definitely seems to be the feedback we are hearing. We can continue to address that by adding more Objectives which can be infinitely repeated. This would directly mirror the alt viability of the pre-5.8 system, which was separated only by repeatable and once per Legacy.

 

I think what is most helpful for us (and many of you on the forums have been doing this) is providing specifically what you felt you could do on alts previously, that you can't do now. This way we can look at the areas where you feel the changes are impacting your daily play and ability to play multiple characters.

 

My post ended up longer than I planned, but hopefully that adds some clarity.

 

-eric

 

You did not add a daily objective for Operations - that existed before and was NOT once per legacy.

 

You did not add a daily objective for PvP - that existed before and was NOT once per legacy.

 

These and many other examples make me wonder if you knew how your previous conquest system even worked?

 

More clearly put:

Crafting an Invasion Force on non-crafting weeks was once per legacy per week

Killing Enemy Commanders or Turrets/Guards (when available) was once per legacy per week

Rampage Objectives - kill 250 NPCs (when available) was once per legacy per week

 

So yes... there were some objectives that were once per legacy per week. But there were many that were NOT, including:

 

Now One time per day per legacy, was previously repeatable on multiple characters:

PvP: win a match, participation

GSF: win a match, participation

Flashpoints: be eligible for daily quest from terminal and complete

Operations: Daily group finder completion

Planetary Heroics

 

Now one time per week per legacy, previously once per week per character:

Galactic Flashpoints Weekly

Warzone weekly (for unranked this is 20 matches!)

GSF Weekly (7 matches!)

 

And you've also included the GSI weekly (10 missions + a heroic mission) - once per legacy per week.

 

You can only complete the weekly once per week anyway, why is it legacy restricted? If I want to complete 40 warzone matches, why do I have to do it on one single character for it to have any impact on conquest for my guild?

 

A multitude of examples where I don't know that you guys really understand where we're coming from or get that the per-legacy requirement was a HUGE change to the system!

 

.

Edited March 30, 2018 by PennyAnn

[DarthDymond]

Technically, the system is either infinite, or by Legacy, there isn't actually a "by character" component to Objectives. Which may seem strange since Conquest points are tracked by character, but Objectives are all Legacy based.

Can you add some clarity on why this is how the Conquest system was set up in the first place (and, perhaps, also why it wasn't reevaluated in this overhaul)? Because -- at least on a superficial level -- "strange" is certainly how I see a system set up with per-character goals that are reached through per-Legacy tasks.

 

Is it a concern that making everything per-character will allow farming of way too many Conquest rewards relative to how many you want to see introduced into the game / economy each week?

 

Are you worried about over-incentivizing players grinding a limited set of objectives and under-incentivizing playing multiple different aspects of the game?

 

Are you worried Guilds will pressure players to grind out points the "right" way and cut down on enjoyment of the system?

 

Something else entirely? Some combination of different factors?

Edited March 30, 2018 by DarthDymond

[KendraP]

Good question, let me try to lend some clarity to that question. The pre-5.8 Conquest system worked almost identically in this regard. Objectives were either infinitely repeatable, or you could only complete them one time per Legacy. The only "restriction" change that happened with 5.8 is we added Daily Objectives, and then shuffled around what Objectives fell into what category. Technically, the system is either infinite, or by Legacy, there isn't actually a "by character" component to Objectives. Which may seem strange since Conquest points are tracked by character, but Objectives are all Legacy based.

 

This isn't really a why, Musco. We already know you added a new category. What we want to know is why that category is per legacy.

 

Now, this could mean that when we reshuffled, we ended up with too many Objectives which had Legacy restrictions. That would hamper the viability of alts which definitely seems to be the feedback we are hearing. We can continue to address that by adding more Objectives which can be infinitely repeated. This would directly mirror the alt viability of the pre-5.8 system, which was separated only by repeatable and once per Legacy.

 

Nice to know you finally stumbled on the primary issues after several hundred posts about it. This whole nightmare could easily have been averted, and now a lot of what you're saying comes off as too little, too late. An entire month from now before any further changes? Really?

 

I think what is most helpful for us (and many of you on the forums have been doing this) is providing specifically what you felt you could do on alts previously, that you can't do now. This way we can look at the areas where you feel the changes are impacting your daily play and ability to play multiple characters.

 

My post ended up longer than I planned, but hopefully that adds some clarity.

 

-eric

 

I'm glad you feel we've been helpful... If you actually do, prove it to us going forward by giving us details on changes this massive BEFORE they go live.

 

Again, I know this part won't get a reply but I have a shaky feeling we were not told BECAUSE you knew we would be pissed. And that line of thinking leads me to question why you would try to force something you knew would irk hundreds of paying customers. If some nerf to conquest was needed, is it really so difficult to tell us why?

 

And so help me if the credit exploiters are the reason... no one gets rich off conquest. They get rich through the scammers, exploiters, and GTN games.

Edited March 30, 2018 by KendraP

[ShadowGovernator]

Pre 5.8 sounds good right about now...

[inoutallabout]

Daily per legacy or daily per toon? Could you please address the question anyone with an alt actually cares about?

 

And if the answer is per legacy can you just go back to the drawing board, because then you still don't get it.

 

This is pretty much all there is to it.

[DarthBatemanJ]

I think what is most helpful for us (and many of you on the forums have been doing this) is providing specifically what you felt you could do on alts previously, that you can't do now. This way we can look at the areas where you feel the changes are impacting your daily play and ability to play multiple characters.

 

-eric

 

Ok, This is easy to answer: Operations on multiple characters per day to get conquest points. I should also point out, that this answer exists prior to this post in multiple threads and prior to the changes in both 5.8a and upcoming in 5.9.

Edited March 30, 2018 by DarthBatemanJ

[Ibokagain]

Completely agree. If it's going to based on Legacy, then if I earn 3000 points doing CZ-198 on one character, then every character in my legacy should get 3000 points towards conquest. If that were to happen, I'd agree that it was legacy based.

 

And bringing this up:

 

 

So far I've seen only a decrease in fun, and an increase in grind, which causes a severe lack of benefits for participating in conquest, especially with alts.

 

And discussions are a 2-way street. Most people, I'm sure, feel like they're talking to a brick wall most of the time because you guys won't give us answers, and when you do give answers, they tend to be vague at best. It's like trying to drag information from a child. We shouldn't have to ask the same question 20 different ways to get the answer we were looking for, and then when we do get a straight answer it's a rare occurrence.

 

Well stated I agree completely.

[krosswong]

I think what is most helpful for us (and many of you on the forums have been doing this) is providing specifically what you felt you could do on alts previously, that you can't do now. This way we can look at the areas where you feel the changes are impacting your daily play and ability to play multiple characters.

 

if you're going to leave us stuck with this horrible ill-conceived system for acquiring conquest points, could you at least give us the option to disable objectives until we want them?

 

I'm really sick and tired of not being able to do, for example, the daily group finder op until I finish it on the alt that needs the conquest points. That just seems asinine.

[Ibokagain]

Basically, yes. They ask for feedback to give feedback-giving folks the idea that their feedback matters. Forum feedback only has a single real utility for a game developer with an MMO: it gives flavor and context to the data they have on the backend. So if suddenly everyone gives up on conquest and the game loses players, and the devs can't figure out why, then your lamentations will color their interpretation of their own data. But if you guys could see how many times the forum-base trumpeted the end of all things and massive waves of cancelled subs against the number of times those waves actually happened ... /shrug

 

 

 

Do you remember the Galactic Command system? BWA is no stranger to wasted development time. Just because I offer an explanation for the changes does not mean I endorse them. Also, you'll forgive me, I hope, if I take your "my guild is dead because of conquest changes" statement with a grain of salt.

 

Many of the players that left in my guild for Galactic Command system disaster are still unsubbed and playiing other games. None of them have come back, the server I was previously on prior to this merge actually had a good population prior to 5.0 and guess what they didn't come back.

 

Results they merged into smaller servers. Yet people say this is all drama and we should just wait and see, that all will be well?? Many have posted some great suggestions however they (devs) aren't getting it. Sure they can evaluate some data and they might as well evaluate the amount of subs while they are at it. This game clearly can't afford another 5.0 disaster which is what 5.8 has been pushing for some.

 

As for less guild participation subs ext. The main guild I'm in had ~ 50 subs prior to 5.8, with averages of 10-12 folks on per night around 3-6 hours of playtime. Now ~ 26 subs with average of 3-5 people on nightly for 1-2 hours playtime. Here's your salt.

[PennyAnn]

@ERIC!!

 

So I think I just had a lightbulb about the disconnect between you guys and us on the per-legacy restriction.

 

Before 5.8 there were no "Daily" objectives. Anything that you moved into this category was previously infinitely repeatable. Examples: Group Finder Operations, PvP wins, GSF wins, Flashpoints via the Activities Window/Terminal, Planetary Heroics.

 

Now that you've made those "Daily" objectives, when they used to be infinitely repeatable... they make it so that we can't even repeat it on the opposite faction, much less on more than one alt on the same faction.

 

You have GREATLY reduced the number of infinitely repeatable objectives to introduce "Daily" objectives (that are not new, they are just new to that category because it didn't exist before) and now we can't do a great variety of the things we used to do on multiple characters because it is now restricted when it never was before.

 

Edited to add: All you have to do is look at the new "Daily" items you moved into that category, then look at the old system and compare how repeatable they are now compared to then. The lightbulb should go on for you too, at this point.

 

Also, you added restrictions to Weekly completions for Flashpoints, PvP, GSF and others that were never restricted before. We could complete those weeklies on any character we wanted, as many times as we wanted, and were not restricted to once per legacy. Why would we be? It's already restricted to once per week (because it's a weekly!). But we could complete it on character A and character B if we wanted to play the game enough to achieve it (weeklies are no joke).

 

The per-legacy restriction was a part of the previous conquest system, but a minor part. Now it is THE MAJORITY of all objectives, in addition to seeing the points values for everything cut by a minimum of 50% (and sometimes 80% or higher).

 

Most of this feedback has been given multiple times in multiple replies to the threads where you guys asked for feedback. Here's hoping saying it yet again will see it read/heard and finally, at long last, understood!

 

.

Edited March 30, 2018 by PennyAnn

[Rheshalea]

if you're going to leave us stuck with this horrible ill-conceived system for acquiring conquest points, could you at least give us the option to disable objectives until we want them?

 

I'm really sick and tired of not being able to do, for example, the daily group finder op until I finish it on the alt that needs the conquest points. That just seems asinine.

 

An Opt-in for Conquest. I like it. I think I lost some points from my main last week because I was crafting all kinds of supplies on all kinds of characters. This should be implemented along with properly alt-friendly changes.

[casirabit]

Good question, let me try to lend some clarity to that question. The pre-5.8 Conquest system worked almost identically in this regard. Objectives were either infinitely repeatable, or you could only complete them one time per Legacy. The only "restriction" change that happened with 5.8 is we added Daily Objectives, and then shuffled around what Objectives fell into what category. Technically, the system is either infinite, or by Legacy, there isn't actually a "by character" component to Objectives. Which may seem strange since Conquest points are tracked by character, but Objectives are all Legacy based.

 

Now, this could mean that when we reshuffled, we ended up with too many Objectives which had Legacy restrictions. That would hamper the viability of alts which definitely seems to be the feedback we are hearing. We can continue to address that by adding more Objectives which can be infinitely repeated. This would directly mirror the alt viability of the pre-5.8 system, which was separated only by repeatable and once per Legacy.

 

I think what is most helpful for us (and many of you on the forums have been doing this) is providing specifically what you felt you could do on alts previously, that you can't do now. This way we can look at the areas where you feel the changes are impacting your daily play and ability to play multiple characters.

 

My post ended up longer than I planned, but hopefully that adds some clarity.

 

-eric

 

One thing you have changed that really wasn't good (in my opinion) is the weeklies (black hole, section x) those were able to be completed per character, not per legacy. In that way if you wanted to run it on another character you good. Now you can't. You do it once and not able to do it again. That really needs to go back to the way it was.