Going out of business sale! Get it while it's hot!

[SaerethDL]

Is it just me or does the new cartel market sale event, where they are directly selling literally everything kind of seem like a going out a business sale? Get people the buy everything right now while they can because their merchandise may be worthless here soon(ish). I have a bad feeling about this.

[DWho]

I take it as a "boy we really screwed up" moment where they are trying to appease an irate community who they have not listened to (or try to make up for what they expect to be lots of lost revenue from cancelled/expiring subscriptions). They place too much faith in influencers who don't even play the game when they make their decisions.

[MikeCobalt]

I think its a Giant Influx of Money. Direct sales has been asked for over and over long time. Why they're doing this now considering their past on the subject; don't know. Maybe just money, Possibly a going out sale or trying to make people happy (for a bit), Hmm......

[Andryah]

Put the tin foil away.

 

It is spring time now... and most years.. they do something in the spring that feeds the players cravings for gear and other items. I guess to tide players over during the run-up to summer time.

 

Some years it is advance promotional items ahead of a coming expac, or remember the DvL event? This is just a variation on the Spring theme.... and frankly is something that players have begged them to do for years now.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Andryah

[TrixxieTriss]

Is it just me or does the new cartel market sale event, where they are directly selling literally everything kind of seem like a going out a business sale? Get people the buy everything right now while they can because their merchandise may be worthless here soon(ish). I have a bad feeling about this.

 

I smell a hint of desperation from Bioware after this last debacle that is making more people cancel their subs. They are probably panicking they are going to lose too much money to keep the game going and hence their jobs.

[arunav]

I smell a hint of desperation from Bioware after this last debacle that is making more people cancel their subs. They are probably panicking they are going to lose too much money to keep the game going and hence their jobs.

 

Barely anyone works on SWTOR, and those that do can be reassigned to Anthem or some other EA project. Perhaps there are some contract workers that wouldn't get placed elsewhere.

 

EA doesn't care about this game any longer. It's getting painfully obvious.

[Eshvara]

While I understand why people may feel this way, no, I don't think it's an "out of business sale".

It's a way to get more money, surprise yeah? Maybe it'll do the game some good and maybe it won't matter.

 

We'll see.

[TrixxieTriss]

While I understand why people may feel this way, no, I don't think it's an "out of business sale".

It's a way to get more money, surprise yeah? Maybe it'll do the game some good and maybe it won't matter.

 

We'll see.

 

The sale is a knee jerk reaction to people unsubbing in protest to conquest.

 

1. They will need the extra funds to try and replace the subs leaving

 

2. They needed a distraction to take away the heat from the conquest problem... Look new shiny object... look over here and forget about that silly thing called conquest

Edited March 28, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[Eshvara]

Using the CM to distract has never really worked though, to my memory anyway. I don't think that's it. People always "whine" about everything CM, if this is their way of trying to distract people, they're doing a piss poor job.

It's just a sale. Amazon has a sale, so does the BW store and other places. It'll be Easter soon, it's not that weird.

I think we need to stop these conspiracy theories about why BW is doing what they're doing. Maybe they have an agenda and maybe they do not, but this only riles up people.

 

And I'm not talking to you personally Trixx, but in general.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Eshvara

[AngFour]

I tend to think this might be more in reaction to the whole Battlefront 2 loot crate debacle. EA might be telling them to do this so they don't get much more flak about it.

 

Mind you, I don't really disagree with the "pony-ing up because we messed up bad with conquest" thoughts here, but the timing might be more coincidental than anything else.

 

We'll never know because it's not like BW is ever going to acknowledge that they have been handling this game particularly bad these last few months. And that takes skill to dip lower than even the lowest expectations.

[xordevoreaux]

I don't see it as a fire sale. I do think it's more a combination of two things:

 

1) Market research to see what our pain points are for purchases. If we buy it at these prices, the prices obviously aren't painful enough and may rise, and will probably rise until prices reach the point of commodity demand destruction (outpricing the market until products can't sell.). I'm sure BW will do a post mortem on the sale event to see what sold, how frequently, and what else the same buyer purchased. After this, expect to see additional sales down the road, but tailored based on BW's interpretation of the results (not what we want in these threads). After all, just because there are threads on the forum saying so-and-so is priced too high, if 5,000 of them sell at the current price, don't expect prices to drop. There are more players buying stuff on the cartel market than come to the forums to complain about the prices. We, on the forums, are not the best judges of the efficacy of this sale. The bean counters in the back office are, and they will determine any streamlining/price adjusting/future sales.

 

2) Fund raising. Speculatively, (a) Anthem needs more cash to keep going, (b) bean counters want to see SWTOR be profitable or this unprofitable product offering will be axed, or © the game isn't in immediate danger, but BW needs to fund the salary for a new programmer or three. I'm thinking ©.

Edited March 28, 2018 by xordevoreaux

[Atalantia]

sorry I didnt see anything in the cartel market that just jumped oput and slapped me in the face. The new Lightsaber is cool looking as well as the new sith armor but meh aint buying either

[TrixxieTriss]

Using the CM to distract has never really worked though to my memory. I don't think that's it. People always "whine" about everything CM, if this is their way of trying to distract people, they're doing a piss poor job.

It's just a sale. Amazon has a sale, so does the BW store and other places. It'll be Easter soon, it's not that weird.

 

(Sorry, long post. It started out short, but then it grew into the post monster it is)

 

It’s not so much the CM because I agree, just doing sometime small on the CM isn’t a distraction.

It doesn’t tmatter what the distraction is as long as it’s something people have been wanting for a long time and it’s big enough to get people excited.

 

The fact that they are finally going to do something with CM that people have been begging for over 2 years by making nearly every item available and then putting it on sale is a very big thing for most people.

I stopped buying CC before the moved the servers on me, but when they did, I swore I would never do so again.

But even I would be tempted if they hadn’t made such a debacle of conquest and can’t be bothered to fix it properly or in a timely manner.

 

There are many items that I’ve always wanted or I’m missing a couple of pieces to open them up. My wife and my sister nearly started salivating at the thought of being able to finally buy those items theyve always wanted.

But none of us will be buying any CCs because it’s just rewarding Biowares bad behaviour and it’s also why we’ve unsubbed. If you continue to “feed the monster”, it will never learn. Our only form of protest they recognise is a financial one.

 

So, Bioware have not only squandered this opportunity to get more money from us, they’ve actually lost money because we unsubbed. By ourselves it means nothing, but as the movement of people unsubbing continues, it will cause a blip on their radar.

If people restrain themselves from participating in this sale and don’t buy extra CC’s, it will hit hem harder and then maybe they will learn to listen to player blow back when they don’t deliver.

 

Let’s say hypothetically, if they said they were thinking about not adding anymore story content and wanted player feed back (that they then wouldn’t listen to because it’s just lip service), would you keep subbing? Would you give them anymore money buying CC’s if they all of a sudden ran a fantastic sale on the CM....? I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t.

People would unsub in massive protest and all the CM sales wouldn’t help them and they would need to bow to pressure to keep delivering content or shut the game.

 

The way I see this current situation is a smaller version of that and if they don’t realise this, then they are dumb and will drive even more people away.

Just from my house hold they have squandered $45 in subs and probably another $100-200 in CC’s my sister and probably my partner would have spent. Even I probably would have spent $50.

Already that’s close to $400-500 they won’t get from our household. That’s not an insignificant amount and if you add all the other people doing the same as us, it’s going to hurt what could have been a nice little boost in funds for the game.

 

None of this was thought out properly because it’s not a business plan any sane business manager would follow.

It’s a knee jerk reaction by Bioware to try and sure up some of the money leaving the game because of their F’up. But it won’t last.

Each sub that leaves is reliable money out of the game and less people likely to spend money to buy CCs. Rememebr F2P and preferred are locked out of end game gearing and content. There isn’t even an option to buy passes anymore. So Bioware are relying more on subscribers than they ever did before to buy the CC’s.

Less subscribers = less people buying CC’s. Which means less money over the medium to long term.

You can see where I’m going with this. It’s a downward spiral which Bioware can’t seem to stop themselves from speeding up. They are constantly making more people leave from their own negligence, incompetence or arrogance, I can’t decide which. The more that leave, the faster it speeds up because people follow their guilds, friends and family to other games.

 

If people don’t make a stand now to get Bioware to pay attention, while Bioware can still absorb some of the loss of funds, then the future is bleak. If Bioware don’t learn a very hard lesson from this and fix the problem fast, they will continue down this self inflicted path of destruction until there aren’t enough paying people to keep the lights on.

[Rheshalea]

Nah, I think this is just a poorly (or well-) timed test for BattleFront2.

 

Poorly timed because to us SWTOR players it feels like desperate attempt to appease the masses after the devs again managed to piss us off.

Well-timed because EA can see the effects and still have time to implement something similar (direct, non-gambling box sales) for a May 4th extravaganza for BF2, maybe coupled with a nifty little marketing campaign.

[Paulsutherland]

I think it's just a quick cash grab.

[xordevoreaux]

I think cartel market "sale" is a poor choice of words, because 'sale' in many people's minds suggests a discount. Should have been advertised as lot of things on the cm being available for direct purchase.

[Sith-Viscera]

Is it just me or does the new cartel market sale event, where they are directly selling literally everything kind of seem like a going out a business sale? Get people the buy everything right now while they can because their merchandise may be worthless here soon(ish). I have a bad feeling about this.

 

I made countless suggestions on just this type of thing. Other wise, i said, sell the items like an open market. Put the items on the selves and let us add them to kart. perhaps not all items keep some still for packs but a good majority of items. I DID NOT SAY! And charge 5500 CC or 40ty or 50ty REAL Bucks for 1 item. Sorry i can buy almost new game for 40ty damn bucks, just wait 2 or 3 months 4 maybe, and get an WHOLE FREAKING GAME. Not ONE ITEM.

 

I want more bang for my REAL BUCK for my DIGITAL Items.

 

But yes i suggested this way of marketing for the past few years. But the pricing is RIDICULES on most big items stuff.

Ok i said my 2 cc worth.......

 

Oh Yes, it kind of does feel like a going out of Business Sale. I thought that a couple days back. Hoping it was just me. Guess not.

 

Take Care Care and Be well...

[arunav]

(Sorry, long post. It started out short, but then it grew into the post monster it is)

 

It’s not so much the CM because I agree, just doing sometime small on the CM isn’t a distraction.

It doesn’t tmatter what the distraction is as long as it’s something people have been wanting for a long time and it’s big enough to get people excited.

 

The fact that they are finally going to do something with CM that people have been begging for over 2 years by making nearly every item available and then putting it on sale is a very big thing for most people.

I stopped buying CC before the moved the servers on me, but when they did, I swore I would never do so again.

But even I would be tempted if they hadn’t made such a debacle of conquest and can’t be bothered to fix it properly or in a timely manner.

 

There are many items that I’ve always wanted or I’m missing a couple of pieces to open them up. My wife and my sister nearly started salivating at the thought of being able to finally buy those items theyve always wanted.

But none of us will be buying any CCs because it’s just rewarding Biowares bad behaviour and it’s also why we’ve unsubbed. If you continue to “feed the monster”, it will never learn. Our only form of protest they recognise is a financial one.

 

So, Bioware have not only squandered this opportunity to get more money from us, they’ve actually lost money because we unsubbed. By ourselves it means nothing, but as the movement of people unsubbing continues, it will cause a blip on their radar.

If people restrain themselves from participating in this sale and don’t buy extra CC’s, it will hit hem harder and then maybe they will learn to listen to player blow back when they don’t deliver.

 

Let’s say hypothetically, if they said they were thinking about not adding anymore story content and wanted player feed back (that they then wouldn’t listen to because it’s just lip service), would you keep subbing? Would you give them anymore money buying CC’s if they all of a sudden ran a fantastic sale on the CM....? I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t.

People would unsub in massive protest and all the CM sales wouldn’t help them and they would need to bow to pressure to keep delivering content or shut the game.

 

The way I see this current situation is a smaller version of that and if they don’t realise this, then they are dumb and will drive even more people away.

Just from my house hold they have squandered $45 in subs and probably another $100-200 in CC’s my sister and probably my partner would have spent. Even I probably would have spent $50.

Already that’s close to $400-500 they won’t get from our household. That’s not an insignificant amount and if you add all the other people doing the same as us, it’s going to hurt what could have been a nice little boost in funds for the game.

 

None of this was thought out properly because it’s not a business plan any sane business manager would follow.

It’s a knee jerk reaction by Bioware to try and sure up some of the money leaving the game because of their F’up. But it won’t last.

Each sub that leaves is reliable money out of the game and less people likely to spend money to buy CCs. Rememebr F2P and preferred are locked out of end game gearing and content. There isn’t even an option to buy passes anymore. So Bioware are relying more on subscribers than they ever did before to buy the CC’s.

Less subscribers = less people buying CC’s. Which means less money over the medium to long term.

You can see where I’m going with this. It’s a downward spiral which Bioware can’t seem to stop themselves from speeding up. They are constantly making more people leave from their own negligence, incompetence or arrogance, I can’t decide which. The more that leave, the faster it speeds up because people follow their guilds, friends and family to other games.

 

If people don’t make a stand now to get Bioware to pay attention, while Bioware can still absorb some of the loss of funds, then the future is bleak. If Bioware don’t learn a very hard lesson from this and fix the problem fast, they will continue down this self inflicted path of destruction until there aren’t enough paying people to keep the lights on.

 

I think you are being too optimistic, that this isn't all part of a planned wind-down of the game by EA/BW, making the most money off of its remaining loyal subscribers along the way.

 

It slow walks the process somewhat, but it's beyond credulity that those managing SWTOR don't understand or react to mistakes that have seen so many subscribers leave since 5.x landed so poorly.

 

The Conquest update, and the subsequent response, only reinforces this, as does this first round of trying to get folks to purchase lots of CCs and get CM items on direct sale at once, alongside getting rid of normal packs/hypercrates. The two combined take the cost burden of CC purchases off "whales" somewhat and instead spread them across the playerbase to anyone who is willing to pay more than a subscription and the occasional CC purchase. The average player, if this new CM model works, will have to buy more cartel coins or spend WAAAAY more time in-game to earn enough credits to afford new items, as they won't drop in bulk at once whenever a new pack is released, when duplicates are all posted at once on the GTN by "whales", driving down the credit costs associated with new rare items.

 

Instead, take a look at the cost of just a Silver armor set today - 1100 CCs. Normally, a set with that rarity in the first couple of weeks of a pack release would go, in total, for well under 1M credits, more typically 500k or less. Not only will the silver sets likely not end up on the GTN in the same number, but who will be spending 1100 CCs and charging the range of credits that was typical for silver armor sets in the past? Instead, the prices will spike, and it will be even higher for rarer gold items. We used to see several pages of rare armor supplementary boxes, companions, flairs, etc., after a new pack was released. Now? Well, just take a look at the GTN in the coming weeks for new items, and it's extremely unlikely, in my view, that prices won't go up very substantially, based on how many credits past direct sale items were being sold for.

 

Bottom line - subscribers that just really enjoy SWTOR's timeline and the game generally are being asked to pay even more to access the same types of cosmetic items as in past years of the game, in time and in dollar terms, alongside very little content and a producer who all but admitted releasing an expansion and making regular game updates at the same time isn't possible on the Bad Feeling podcast.

 

We haven't been told what's going to happen with SWTOR, but the fact that they are squeezing the remaining subscribers this much harder over really basic cosmetic items like Silver armor sets is, in my opinion, a really bad sign. "Whales" will generally pay less to get what they want, but everyone else will have to either spend more time gaining credits in-game or buy CCs in ways they didn't before. And we still won't get any increase in content or, frankly, updates that aren't the most buggy in the game's history.

 

I get EA/BW is focused on Anthem, but if SWTOR is really that low of a priority, the least BW could do is not squeeze the most loyal of its game's fans for more money.

Edited March 28, 2018 by arunav

[TrixxieTriss]

I think you are being too optimistic, that this isn't all part of a planned wind-down of the game by EA/BW, making the most money off of its remaining loyal subscribers along the way.

 

It slow walks the process somewhat, but it's beyond credulity that those managing SWTOR don't understand or react to mistakes that have seen so many subscribers leave since 5.x landed so poorly.

 

The Conquest update, and the subsequent response, only reinforces this, as does this first round of trying to get folks to purchase lots of CCs and get CM items on direct sale at once, alongside getting rid of normal packs/hypercrates. The two combined take the cost burden of CC purchases off "whales" somewhat and instead spread them across the playerbase to anyone who is willing to pay more than a subscription and the occasional CC purchase. The average player, if this new CM model works, will have to buy more cartel coins or spend WAAAAY more time in-game to earn enough credits to afford new items, as they won't drop in bulk at once whenever a new pack is released, when duplicates are all posted at once on the GTN by "whales", driving down the credit costs associated with new rare items.

 

Instead, take a look at the cost of just a Silver armor set today - 1100 CCs. Normally, a set with that rarity in the first couple of weeks of a pack release would go, in total, for well under 1M credits, more typically 500k or less. Not only will the silver sets likely not end up on the GTN in the same number, but who will be spending 1100 CCs and charging the range of credits that was typical for silver armor sets in the past? Instead, the prices will spike, and it will be even higher for rarer gold items. We used to see several pages of rare armor supplementary boxes, companions, flairs, etc., after a new pack was released. Now? Well, just take a look at the GTN in the coming weeks for new items, and it's extremely unlikely, in my view, that prices won't go up very substantially, based on how many credits past direct sale items were being sold for.

 

Bottom line - subscribers that just really enjoy SWTOR's timeline and the game generally are being asked to pay even more to access the same types of cosmetic items as in past years of the game, in time and in dollar terms, alongside very little content and a producer who all but admitted releasing an expansion and making regular game updates at the same time isn't possible on the Bad Feeling podcast.

 

We haven't been told what's going to happen with SWTOR, but the fact that they are squeezing the remaining subscribers this much harder over really basic cosmetic items like Silver armor sets is, in my opinion, a really bad sign. "Whales" will generally pay less to get what they want, but everyone else will have to either spend more time gaining credits in-game or buy CCs in ways they didn't before. And we still won't get any increase in content or, frankly, updates that aren't the most buggy in the game's history.

 

I get EA/BW is focused on Anthem, but if SWTOR is really that low of a priority, the least BW could do is not squeeze the most loyal of its game's fans for more money.

 

You make really good points.

 

One thing about all of this is it highlights how they aren’t serious about GTN inflation at all. Like I said in another thread, the GTN tax has zero to do with inflation.

The tax is only a credit sink and IMO, them trying to dress it up as way to combat inflation is another lie, even if it’s a small one.

[TheRandomWolf]

Guild Wars 2 and TERA apply similar tactics. GW2 is the worst case here. They place the same old items from years ago during these themed sales.... and people keep falling for it over and over again. At least SWTOR has variety.

[Pscyon]

To me it's a "oh look, I can get stuff I want without paying the ludicrous amounts GTN wants for it because of rarity and/or greed" thing. I don't care about the motivation behind it, that's beyond my control. Everyone benefits from this: the doomsayers get another reason to scream the sky is falling which is probably healthy as the Kotaku article is getting old, the GTN price gougers gets to stock up on "rare" items and regular people have a chance to swipe up some stuff that's otherwise unobtainable.

[Kurj]

Keith said they were considering this during his interview with Bad Feeling Podcast, and people have been complaining about RNG crates and the lack of direct sale items for years. I doubt this was cooked up after 5.8 bombed to distract us. Even on these forums, there are few posts complaining that we are getting a chance to buy pretty much whatever we want. They are going to make a ton of cash with this. That doesn’t sound like a swan song to me.

[TUXs]

Nah...I thought the same thing at first, but seeing the prices, it's stupid for them to not get in on the action. They're selling items that people WANT and will pay EXTRA for...old items, new items...it's stupid for them not to try to capitalize on these. By selling these direct, they expand their market well beyond a few wealthy players in-game being the only ones who can afford them.

 

I'm not saying there isn't a certain amount of concern from this, but I don't think it's anything to worry about...I think it's Bioware/EA finally figuring out that they can make money off old items this way.

[Andryah]

Keith said they were considering this during his interview with Bad Feeling Podcast, and people have been complaining about RNG crates and the lack of direct sale items for years. I doubt this was cooked up after 5.8 bombed to distract us. Even on these forums, there are few posts complaining that we are getting a chance to buy pretty much whatever we want. They are going to make a ton of cash with this. That doesn’t sound like a swan song to me.

 

^^ accurate assessment in my view.

 

And yeah.. no way they cooked this up as a distraction from the issues surrounding 5.8. They simply are not that sharp or quick about doing things like this as it has to go through a number of approval levels within the studio and the larger EA organization.

[TrixxieTriss]

Keith said they were considering this during his interview with Bad Feeling Podcast, and people have been complaining about RNG crates and the lack of direct sale items for years. I doubt this was cooked up after 5.8 bombed to distract us. Even on these forums, there are few posts complaining that we are getting a chance to buy pretty much whatever we want. They are going to make a ton of cash with this. That doesn’t sound like a swan song to me.

 

It’s not the listing of the items by themselves that’s the distraction. I’m sure it was always planned at some point. It’s the timing and the fact that some with be at special “sale” prices.

The timing could be a coincidence, but if it is, it is extremely convenient. The other thing that doesn’t smell right is why do this is after Easter?

If you were going to plan a sale like this near Easter, it makes better sense to do it while people have a longer weekend period to play over and possibly even have digital gifts to give as Easter presents.

It’s the same with the double XP/CXP. That would also work better in tandem with this sort of promotion over the Easter break.

I actually think that it was probably planned to happen just before or when 5.9 was supposed to be released. But with how badly conquest has gone, they decided to rush it out early because it’s easier than fixing conquest in that time,

The whole thing just feels rushed out the door to distract us from conquest.

Edited March 28, 2018 by TrixxieTriss