Theron Shan (5.9) Request

[JennyFlynn]

I am afraid of where this train is headed. (yes I went there.)

Despite all this angst, I snorted at that part, thank you, lol.

[rachetsw]

Despite all this angst, I snorted at that part, thank you, lol.

 

You are welcome.

[DuchessKristania]

I hope that the powers that be are seeing this thread and all the resulting fallout from even the possibility of another favored companion being lost to story. This could be a potentially big problem and I think they need to address it before 5.9 comes out.

 

I've been watching the threads and I think most people against the kill option would at least stick around if they knew it didn't mean losing that companion regardless of their choice to spare them. The devs need to address this, and they need to do it fast..

 

I honestly don't know if a kill option for Theron will make me quit, but it would make me consider it. Theron isn't even really a character I romance, I just enjoy him. I like the depth and personality that Troy Baker brings to him, I like a lot of his lines. If I knew Theron in real life I'd like hanging around with him. I don't want to have another favorite become obsolete. This whole thing makes me feel very marginalized as a player.

Edited April 1, 2018 by DuchessKristania

[BlueShiftRecall]

I hope that the powers that be are seeing this thread and all the resulting fallout from even the possibility of another favored companion being lost to story. This could be a potentially big problem and I think they need to address it before 5.9 comes out.

 

Are they going to appease those crying out for the option to kill him or those who don't want him to be killable? Based on previous companions (Quinn/Koth) and the vocal out cry over people wanting to kill them I believe we probably already know the answer.

Edited April 1, 2018 by BlueShiftRecall

[Chopsaki]

yeah a kill option would be sweet, out the airlock with him.

and if I find out Lana was anyway involved with his shenanigans better be room for two in that airlock

[DuchessKristania]

Are they going to appease those crying out for the option to kill him or those who don't want him to be killable? Based on previous companions (Quinn/Koth) and the vocal out cry over people wanting to kill them I believe we probably already know the answer.

 

It's not even the kill option that bothers me. I don't expect people to make the same choices that I do. (I never kill comps)/ What bothers me is that my choice not to kill a companion is still impacted by others choosing to kill the companion. If they continue to have Theron be a part of the story for those who don't kill him, then by all means, let the bloodbath ensue for those who want it. Have fun with it, don't make me watch it or tell me about it, but knock yourself out, lol. (Not you specifically, just those who want to kill him) I just, you know, want the guy to be around for my story.

Edited April 1, 2018 by DuchessKristania

[BlueShiftRecall]

It's not even the kill option that bothers me. I don't expect people to make the same choices that I do. (I never kill comps)/ What bothers me is that my choice not to kill a companion is still impacted by others choosing to kill the companion. If they continue to have Theron be a part of the story for those who don't kill him, then by all means, let the bloodbath ensue for those who want it. Have fun with it, don't make me watch it or tell me about it, but knock yourself out, lol. (Not your specifically, just those who want to kill him) I just, you know, want the guy to be around for my story.

 

Agree. An example for me is with Quinn, he was killed on my fully DS SW because it was totally in his particular character, my other SW on the other hand who romanced Quinn obviously spared him but she now has 0 interaction with him, her husband any more. I don't want this to happen to Theron, Lana or anyone else again.

Edited April 1, 2018 by BlueShiftRecall

[Tashia]

It's not even the kill option that bothers me. I don't expect people to make the same choices that I do. (I never kill comps)/ What bothers me is that my choice not to kill a companion is still impacted by others choosing to kill the companion. If they continue to have Theron be a part of the story for those who don't kill him, then by all means, let the bloodbath ensue for those who want it. Have fun with it, don't make me watch it or tell me about it, but knock yourself out, lol. (Not you specifically, just those who want to kill him) I just, you know, want the guy to be around for my story.

 

 

This and the fact that a precedent has been set with Arcann --- a "killable" companion that "came back" and was made romansable by those same powers that be --- consistency is all I want --- bring Arcann back with romance and lines ---

do the same for Theron and Lana if she is killable ..... or forget any "story" totally, and just give us ops and group content --- just like any other MMO

THAT would be the only FAIR thing to do .... this potential loss of character input and story is what I am upset about ( with original LIs too btw )

 

Psst ---- are you hearing US Bioware devs ????

Edited April 1, 2018 by Tashia

[DuchessKristania]

Agree. An example for me is with Quinn, he was killed on my fully DS SW because it was totally in his particular character, my other SW on the other hand who romanced Quinn obviously spared him but she now has 0 interaction with him, her husband any more. I don't want this to happen to Theron, Lana or anyone else again.

 

I'll be honest, the kill options for LIs is a difficult topic for me to approach and be fair. I'm a widow, a young one. This game provides a lot of needed escapism. The whole losing LIs thing hits a little too close to real life and does make it difficult to be okay with other people wanting to kill a companion off. Still, I accept that not everyone is going to make the same choices I do.

 

In a really lovely twist of fate, and by twist I mean twisting the emotional knife, 5.9 comes out on May 1, which is the anniversary of my husband's death. So yeah, if there is a kill option I'm gonna breakdown and cry. I would not normally do that over a game, but in this case there will be big, ugly tears. But, I won't be able to hold off playing it on that day because I'll know the answer is there and it will torment me until I find out.

Edited April 1, 2018 by DuchessKristania

[rachetsw]

my other SW on the other hand who romanced Quinn obviously spared him but she now has 0 interaction with him, her husband any more. I don't want this to happen to Theron, Lana or anyone else again.

 

Exactly this!!! I edited because I have never killed Quinn, I can't even watch the video on YouTube. I get that people want to kill him in their story, why should that mean he is dead now in mine? I have resigned myself to the fact that for Quinn, all I have going forward is fan fic. It sucks, but I understand he is a very polarizing character and for the most part, you either love him or you hate him.

 

I know that we aren't guaranteed that any living vanilla LI will get any new cut scenes. Goodbye kisses before missions or things like that. But I feel pretty confident that we won't get them with a dead LI. Why waste resources on companions who have been written out of the story? But it is a trend that needs to stop. LIs should not have kill options, period. They should not be in the position story wise to even need kill options. If BW has no qualms killing off Lana and Theron then why bring in new LIs that are just going to be put in this same spot down the road?

 

I am all for new LIs and new faces in general. Keeps the game fresh. Meeting new people in KotFE/KotET was fun. But having a familiar face to start, with Lana, and then Theron after you get to Odessen where nice touches back to SoR. I don't want all new people at the cost of the ones we have spent years building friendships/relationships with.

[IoNonSoEVero]

It's not even the kill option that bothers me. I don't expect people to make the same choices that I do. (I never kill comps)/ What bothers me is that my choice not to kill a companion is still impacted by others choosing to kill the companion. If they continue to have Theron be a part of the story for those who don't kill him, then by all means, let the bloodbath ensue for those who want it. Have fun with it, don't make me watch it or tell me about it, but knock yourself out, lol. (Not you specifically, just those who want to kill him) I just, you know, want the guy to be around for my story.

 

Exactly. I have certainly killed characters myself. Quinn and Arcann and Senya die on every play through. I do get disturbed hearing people here how much they want to torture various characters but that is another issue.

 

But what I care about is the precedent that once a character is killable, they are dead for everyone and they are never in the story again. If they could truly do a parallel storyline where Lana and Theron were always in your story even if someone else did away with them, I'd be fine. I'd avoid the gross videos on YouTube and go on with my own story.

[rachetsw]

I'll be honest, the kill options for LIs is a difficult topic for me to approach and be fair. I'm a widow, a young one. This game provides a lot of needed escapism. The whole losing LIs thing hits a little too close to real life and does make it difficult to be okay with other people wanting to kill a companion off. Still, I accept that not everyone is going to make the same choices I do.

 

In a really lovely twist of fate, and by twist I mean twisting the emotional knife, 5.9 comes out on May 1, which is the anniversary of my husband's death. So yeah, if there is a kill option I'm gonna breakdown and cry. I would not normally do that over a game, but in this case there will be big, ugly tears. But, I won't be able to hold off playing it on that day because I'll know the answer is there and it will torment me until I find out.

 

I am so sorry to read this. My heart goes out to you. I can only imagine what you have been through.

 

This is my biggest fear. My husband and I used to heal raids together, until he got sick, and couldn't raid anymore. He gets about halfway through a raid and has to lay down. With the slow progress of new raids, and the loss of their primary healers our raid team fell apart. So I became a story player, which was fine, I need the distraction from real life and the crappy things it was throwing my way. While he sleeps, I log in and do chapters or dailies and escape to my own little world. I live with the constant worry that my husband is going to get worse, and we will not grow old together. He was diagnosed with an aggressive form of MS, and there is no cure right now, hopefully someday. But I am already dealing with these emotions in real life and then adding to them from an in game story...the angst is strong. I know that it is a game and it is just pixels, but I feel close to my two main characters, I have played them for six years, I know all their backstories, what makes them laugh, what makes them tick. I feel like the last eight months Jen, my merc, and I have been going through some of the same uncertainty. I don't want her to lose her love, because I really hate the thought of losing mine. If Jen loses Theron, I don't know how I would even be able to log her on. That pain is based on a real fear, a real worry. Losing my husband is not something I want to face yet, but I know that it is a real possibility.

 

Exactly. I have certainly killed characters myself. Quinn and Arcann and Senya die on every play through. I do get disturbed hearing people here how much they want to torture various characters but that is another issue.

 

It is one thing to want to kill a character, for betrayal, or whatever reason. But to give graphic details about how they would kill them makes me wonder about the mental state of some of these people.

Edited April 1, 2018 by rachetsw

[IoNonSoEVero]

It is one thing to want to kill a character, for betrayal, or whatever reason. But to give graphic details about how they would kill them makes me wonder about the mental state of some of these people.

 

I will admit it makes me wonder what is going on. So many people seem to delight in these graphic descriptions and enjoy hurting the characters and it does make my skin crawl.

[rachetsw]

I will admit it makes me wonder what is going on. So many people seem to delight in these graphic descriptions and enjoy hurting the characters and it does make my skin crawl.

 

Sadly I suspect that is the real reason. Not because they really have these sick fantasies, but because they want to provoke a response. They get their kicks out of stirring up drama. The best way to do that is to attack a character someone loves, and then watch as people jump into defend the character. It works every time. You see it time and time again in fan threads. And it is spilling out everywhere now.

 

I have played into it myself. But our voices need to be heard. BW needs to see we are sick of them killing off LIs if they can't do a dual story.

Edited April 1, 2018 by rachetsw

[Seireeni]

I am not a fan of Koth, but there are those out there that are. There were not a lot of voices raised when he was killed, so BW continued with the trend. If we don't present a united front that killing LIs is not okay, who will stand for your favorite when they come for them?

 

I'm just curious -- why you feel it started with Koth, and not with Kaliyo and Aric? I've seen other people say this, too, and don't really understand it. Sure, Kaliyo and Aric had a reason they could be killed, but so did Koth, and while Koth's possible death might have been influenced by people who wished to kill him, it was Kaliyo and Aric that showed that LIs were not off the limits. That's why I personally feel it started with those two.

[rachetsw]

I'm just curious -- why you feel it started with Koth, and not with Kaliyo and Aric? I've seen other people say this, too, and don't really understand it. Sure, Kaliyo and Aric had a reason they could be killed, but so did Koth, and while Koth's possible death might have been influenced by people who wished to kill him, it was Kaliyo and Aric that showed that LIs were not off the limits. That's why I personally feel it started with those two.

 

That is fair, it did start with them, but we had no advanced warning with Kaliyo and Aric. But we learned after the fact that LIs were on the chopping block. We should have gotten ahead of it before Koth became the next victim, and then everyone else that followed. Now we are trying to play catch up. So yes, they were the first to have the option, but we weren't aware of it to tell BW it wasn't something we wanted until it was already in the game.

[Seireeni]

That is fair, it did start with them, but we had no advanced warning with Kaliyo and Aric. But we learned after the fact that LIs were on the chopping block. We should have gotten ahead of it before Koth became the next victim, and then everyone else that followed. Now we are trying to play catch up. So yes, they were the first to have the option, but we weren't aware of it to tell BW it wasn't something we wanted until it was already in the game.

 

Fair enough. I might put more weight on the Aric&Kaliyo issue since Kaliyo is one of my favorite companions anyway. ^^ Thankfully I don't take kill options as hard as many people, so I wasn't really hurt by her possible death.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I'm just curious -- why you feel it started with Koth, and not with Kaliyo and Aric? I've seen other people say this, too, and don't really understand it. Sure, Kaliyo and Aric had a reason they could be killed, but so did Koth, and while Koth's possible death might have been influenced by people who wished to kill him, it was Kaliyo and Aric that showed that LIs were not off the limits. That's why I personally feel it started with those two.

 

I think the reason people think that about Koth is that from what has been said here, people were calling for his head and then the devs made a comment about it in one of those interview/podcast thingies. So it's not just that he was killable but that people's feelings about him seemed to influence the devs to add a kill for him if he left.

 

I agree with you that when Kaliyo and Jorgan were killable it got the ball rolling, unfortunately. But since then it's been a mishmosh. As of right now the LIs stand as such. I am not counting Arcann because he was not a LI when the story was going on which makes him different than any of these. We've actually got more LIs that are not killable than ones that are:

 

Killable:

 

Aric Jorgan

Torian

Vette

Kaliyo

Quinn**

Koth

 

Not Killable:

 

Raina Temple

Corso

Andronikos

Ashara

Risha

Vector

Elara

Quinn **

 

** Killable only for SW but also LI only for SW **

[Asmodesu]

And then we've got the issue that is exactly the same as a kill option - companion leaving, being told to leave, not recruited at all, exiled or imprisoned. All of which in the sense of possible future content has the same result as a killing option:

 

Aric

Kaliyo

Torian

Vette

Koth

Quinn

Elara

Corso

Risha

Ashara

Andronikos

 

Always recruited/in Alliance:

Raina

Lana

Vector? (class only- but also an alliance alert return unlikely for more content outside a scene or two)

Theron?

Edited April 1, 2018 by Asmodesu

[Mirandel]

Ok, let's see. Unkillable companions everyone has:

 

T7-01 - with you from the start, unkillable, "unexilable", easy to VA (does not need VA in fact) - does not play any role now.

Yuun - if you bothered with Alerts at all, Yuun is there - unkillable, "unexilable", easy to VA - does not play any role now.

All companions from SF - unkillable, "unexilable" - do not play any role now

Half of the alert companions - unkillable, "unexilable" - do not play any role now

 

Now, Arcann - perfectly killable - got his 2 min of fame become an LI.

Marr - was killed right in front of us - got his chapter

 

You know, the theory "killable - no more dialogs ever, unkillable - participation in the story", is not that solid.

 

Once again, I understand the caution, but if BW wants someone in the story that someone will be there no matter what - as a ghost if it's the only way, but still there. Yet, if they want someone to take a backseat, they do not need an excuse to do so. It's fans who is inventing excuses and justifications.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Mirandel

[Eshvara]

Ok, let's see. Unkillable companions everyone has:

 

T7-01 - with you from the start, unkillable, "unexilable", easy to VA (does not need VA in fact) - does not play any role now.

Yuun - if you bothered with Alerts at all, Yuun is there - unkillable, "unexilable", easy to VA - does not play any role now.

All companions from SF - unkillable, "unexilable" - do not play any role now

Half of the alert companions - unkillable, "unexilable" - do not play any role now

 

Now, Arcann - perfectly killable - got his 2 min of fame become an LI.

Marr - was killed right in front of us - got his chapter

 

You know, the theory "killable - no more dialogs ever, unkillable - participation in the story", is not that solid.

 

Once again, I understand the caution, but if BW wants someone in the story that someone will be there no matter what - as a ghost if it's the only way, but still there. Yet, if they want someone to take a backseat, they do not need an excuse to do so. It's fans who is inventing excuses and justifications.

 

Agreed. We all need to calm down!! Let things play out as they are, imo.

[AdharaKyleth]

Looks like OP's prayers were answered: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=946806

 

Darn! Uggggg.....went away from this thread for a few days and ruined my Easter.

[Rabenschwinge]

I certainly am not going to kill Theron, but it is unsurprising that many players, particularly those who follow a dark side path, desire such an option. (Looking at the "dark" choices that would only be conclusive.)

 

Maybe they add a kill option for Lana as well (some minor betrayal should not too hard to come up with, and even if not, she's responsible for security screening and did not see it coming, so it's really her fault), after which both characters will become irrelevant (because a character that a given player might have killed never plays an importantly role anymore). Thus we need a new team to run the Eternal Alliance and might get, I dunno, Kira and Andronikus back? Or Lord Scourge and Ashara?

Edited April 1, 2018 by Rabenschwinge

[JennyFlynn]

Going by what I remember from 2-3 years back, the kill stuff started with Koth. People would request, scream for his death at every turn and during the more regular livestreams. Their request was met with some silly laughter and 'maybes' from the devs, and it kept coming up. At one point, the devs, during the stream said they were toying with the idea of kill options (again in response to "can we kill Koth?!" requests), and shortly thereafter, the first kill-option was implemented for Aric and Kaliyo. So while in-game they are the first to fall, it all started out with the Koth hatred and constant spam of people begging for a way to kill him.

 

Not that I blame Koth. I don't even fully blame those stomping their feet to kill him. I do blame the Devs. They should have possessed the wisdom of not adhering to that request and considered the ramifications for doing this to character's we're extremely attached to.

[JennyFlynn]

Ok, let's see. Unkillable companions everyone has:

 

T7-01 - with you from the start, unkillable, "unexilable", easy to VA (does not need VA in fact) - does not play any role now.

Yuun - if you bothered with Alerts at all, Yuun is there - unkillable, "unexilable", easy to VA - does not play any role now.

All companions from SF - unkillable, "unexilable" - do not play any role now

Half of the alert companions - unkillable, "unexilable" - do not play any role now

 

Now, Arcann - perfectly killable - got his 2 min of fame become an LI.

Marr - was killed right in front of us - got his chapter

 

You know, the theory "killable - no more dialogs ever, unkillable - participation in the story", is not that solid.

 

Once again, I understand the caution, but if BW wants someone in the story that someone will be there no matter what - as a ghost if it's the only way, but still there. Yet, if they want someone to take a backseat, they do not need an excuse to do so. It's fans who is inventing excuses and justifications.

Not entirely unfair to say, I agree, however, the Marr example is off.

 

Marr's death was written into the story and it was the writers who then also used him for a re-enactment of Ghost/Unchained Melody with Satele. His death had nothing to do with player choice. It's like saying "We killed Valkorion in Chapter 1 but he still received content the entire expansion!".

 

Arcann's example is more accurate but I do feel in large, that has to do with the devs giving a go-ahead for his romance after they'd already made him killable, in response to the requests for him specifically as well as the overall requests for a Male Force using LI and the fact one of their own writers had been pushing for his romance herself (she wrote for/had ideas for his romance long before BW confirmed that yes, they were going to add him as a romantic interest). He is also currently the only exception and while the order in his case is slightly reversed, in a way he's gotten no more than say Quinn, Aric, Kaliyo--we're yet to see if he will actually continue to get content updates or if this romance-lock was the only thing ever.