New Conquest System: First Impressions

[KendraP]

If you're subbed, cancel. I just did. Its really the only way they're going to take any of this seriously. We deserve a competent dev team, one that plays the game they're making. It is painfully obvious they don't play. How do you push live all of these bugs if you actually play the game. Tired of paying for the C team.

 

From 6 to 15 ingredients to make a single war supply. Why? Wins only count in PvP? They hit two of the items that I actually do in the game. The 1800 point thing on Ilum is kind of a fill in for heroics, but its just a single mission that awards points, and the totally obivous, 10k award just for stepping on the ice. Apparently i caused a Force tremor so large by leaving the base that I killed both of the world bosses immediately. How did this **** go live?

 

i use game time card so i can't really hit the cancel button.

 

that said, i have 16 days left. give me a solid plan as to what, how, and when to expect a fix or i won't be re-upping, which i have been doing consistently for over 5 years.

[DisposableHeero]

My suggestions on how to quick and dirty fix 5.8 conquest:

 

1) Reduce guild targets - Small: 160,000 (8 player targets), Medium: 320,000 (16 player targets), Large: 480,000 (24 player targets), the current numbers here are totally out to lunch, sorry, needs a fix. If you want a multi-million planet, add a huge class of planet with unique rewards aimed at the large conquest guilds.

2) Increase Medium and Large Guild Target Rewards - make them exactly double/triple the small rewards excluding encryptions which can stay as is.

3) Undo the changes to the cost of war supplies, or reduce the attachment/component cost to 1 of each type rather than 4 so the cost is at least similar.

4) Re-introduce the exotic isotope stabilizer recipe for dark projects, or baring that, introduce a vendor that will give the player 10 assorted droid parts per exotic isotope stabilizer, and add refined isotope stabilizer to the jawa scrap peddlers at a cost of 5 assorted droid parts.

5) Make all one time and daily conquest objectives per character instead of per legacy

6) Add tooltips to the one time/daily/repeatable indicator so people know what it means

7) Increase the conquest point yield of all daily objectives by 50%, when the daily objective is complete, add a repeatable objective with the same goal, but no XP/CXP/Credits reward, and half the conquest reward, so that players can continue doing the activities they enjoy, just at reduced efficiency for conquest.

8) Make PVP and GSF related objectives based on participation rather than victory, or create repeatable objectives for participation so the victory objectives are a bonus rather than the only conquest reward.

9) Reinstate missing flashpoint, warzone, and GSF conquest objectives from the pre-5.8 iteration at reasonable conquest values and little to no CXP/Credit values if you're worried about those activities become too rewarding in terms of CXP (hint: they aren't too rewarding now, and increasing participation in these group activities is not a bad thing, we like queues that actually pop)

[PennyAnn]

Hey folks,

 

Feel free to use this thread as a source of general feedback on the Conquest revamp. We will be reading through the thread (and of course the rest of the forums) and gathering feedback.

 

-eric

 

I think the first thing you should do is EXPLAIN this new system. You have not done that what so ever for the UI itself (showing a screen shot during a live stream but not explaining what any of the parts of the UI are indicating was a failure), and your general overview of the conquest changes that you posted on the forums doesn't really explain how this will work well enough to follow, and frankly it's all very confusing. You need to create a blog post and conquest UI guide that explains what each element is, what the symbols next to objectives mean, add some tool tips to the UI itself and generally make it far, far, far less confusing than it currently is.

 

The old UI was VASTLY superior in it's simplicity to this new one. The scrolling objectives are unclear and not as easy to tell if it is completed or not, has rewarded you the points or not, etc.

 

Honestly, splitting the windows between guild and personal is confusing also. The whole thing is confusing, frustrating, and hard to follow or understand. And you guys have done almost nothing to explain any of it.

 

That would go a long way toward easing some of the frustration with other things I think... and it should have been done already, to be quite honest.

Edited March 21, 2018 by PennyAnn

[DarthScruffy]

It may just be that it is Gree week (always a bad week for conquest) but payouts seem flat with little to do. Also, with the current state of the game, there needs to be a "super low yield option" that is smaller than the previous conquest rewards. 490 k is a little steep if you don't have 25 active people. And mega guilds are still on all 3 tiers. So either purpose of tiering is not being met by the current system, neither small guild participation nor empire control. Crafting is too steep. Overall, this is a good proof of concept which requires a lot more work.

[DisposableHeero]

Overall, this is a good proof of concept which requires a lot more work.

The essence of it is distilled here. The concepts discussed and executed and the direction is good, the numerical implementation of it is terrible.

[PennyAnn]

My suggestions on how to quick and dirty fix 5.8 conquest:

 

1) Reduce guild targets - Small: 160,000 (8 player targets), Medium: 320,000 (16 player targets), Large: 480,000 (24 player targets), the current numbers here are totally out to lunch, sorry, needs a fix. If you want a multi-million planet, add a huge class of planet with unique rewards aimed at the large conquest guilds.

2) Increase Medium and Large Guild Target Rewards - make them exactly double/triple the small rewards excluding encryptions which can stay as is.

3) Undo the changes to the cost of war supplies, or reduce the attachment/component cost to 1 of each type rather than 4 so the cost is at least similar.

4) Re-introduce the exotic isotope stabilizer recipe for dark projects, or baring that, introduce a vendor that will give the player 10 assorted droid parts per exotic isotope stabilizer, and add refined isotope stabilizer to the jawa scrap peddlers at a cost of 5 assorted droid parts.

5) Make all one time and daily conquest objectives per character instead of per legacy

6) Add tooltips to the one time/daily/repeatable indicator so people know what it means

7) Increase the conquest point yield of all daily objectives by 50%, when the daily objective is complete, add a repeatable objective with the same goal, but no XP/CXP/Credits reward, and half the conquest reward, so that players can continue doing the activities they enjoy, just at reduced efficiency for conquest.

8) Make PVP and GSF related objectives based on participation rather than victory, or create repeatable objectives for participation so the victory objectives are a bonus rather than the only conquest reward.

9) Reinstate missing flashpoint, warzone, and GSF conquest objectives from the pre-5.8 iteration at reasonable conquest values and little to no CXP/Credit values if you're worried about those activities become too rewarding in terms of CXP (hint: they aren't too rewarding now, and increasing participation in these group activities is not a bad thing, we like queues that actually pop)

 

These are all excellent suggestions. Please read and consider, @Eric @Keith

[Mournblood]

(I already posted this in a related thread, but since this is the "official" feedback thread, I'm reposting it here.)

 

My entire guild are predominantly PvPers. Not only does the limitation on WZ wins screw us, but the reward difference between large, medium, and small conquest targets is so insignificant, larger guilds have no incentive to do the large conquest targets. As a result, larger guilds are doing the small conquest targets, which of course smaller guilds are unable to compete with.

 

While improvements to the Conquest system were sorely needed, and I was excited that you guys were finally addressing this, the changes you made were without a great deal of forethought about how it would impact smaller guilds and guilds who primarily PvP. It's never a good design decision to disenfranchise whole segments of the player base by implementing changes that disadvantage specific modes of play. It's my hope that Bioware will address these issues with the new Conquest system ASAP.

[Zerileth]

EVERBODY that is offering suggestions for fixes need to stop. STOP right now! No more fixes. No more new content. No more new PVP zones or Operations. No flashpoints! NO MORE PATCHES! STOP!

 

ROLL BACK 5.8 and don't touch the game again. You guys are the equivalent to the chef that can't boil water. You just ruin anything you try to fix or add. Please, just stop!

 

Here, I'll finish the Traitor storyline with an email from Theron.

 

Hi Commander. It's Theron Shan. I was under a Hutt brain control. They used the key word Onamanaphobia, but I couldn't understand Huttese. Once I figured out what was wrong, I was able to go to Nar Shadaa and meet some X dude, who fixed my brain. I'm back now and glad to get back to work.

 

Thanks everybody.

 

Theron Shan!

 

Now give everybody back their companions through the alliance alert KOTOR like dialog. Just 3 words required. HI and WELCOME BACK.

 

And we're done. We won't speak of this ever again. In fact, just send me the programs. I played with Oblivion and Skyrim's construction sets. I will wrap up the Traitor line and send your interns the final patch.

 

Just ROLLBACK 5.8.

[TrixxieTriss]

More feed back.

This is minor in comparison to everything else, but you have also made it nearly impossible for sub lvl 60 characters to participate in conquest anymore.

Certainly no characters sub 50 can do Illum. Sub 40 can’t do Hoth. And obviously you can’t do any end game OPs etc.

Lower lvls could still participate in conquest by crafting, doing pvp or gsf. But now these activities don’t give enough points to complete the weekly total. So you have effectively removed people sub 65-70 from completing the conquest weekly.

This has already had a massive affect on lowbie and mid pvp, even with double XP, which usually boosts lowbie and mid pvp participation. It’s literally a ghost town on both SF and SS.

 

So this also needs to be addressed or you will kill of pvp even more.

[KendraP]

(I already posted this in a related thread, but since this is the "official" feedback thread, I'm reposting it here.)

 

My entire guild are predominantly PvPers. Not only does the limitation on WZ wins screw us, but the reward difference between large, medium, and small conquest targets is so insignificant, larger guilds have no incentive to do the large conquest targets. As a result, larger guilds are doing the small conquest targets, which of course smaller guilds are unable to compete with.

my guild as well. we are a small primarily pvp guild. the limitation to wins and the limitation to one daily is a definite sore spot.

Couple that with the complete failure to accomplish their goal of making small guilds win more, and the changes are absolutely ridiculous.

 

While improvements to the Conquest system were sorely needed, and I was excited that you guys were finally addressing this, the changes you made were without a great deal of forethought about how it would impact smaller guilds and guilds who primarily PvP. It's never a good design decision to disenfranchise whole segments of the player base by implementing changes that disadvantage specific modes of play. It's my hope that Bioware will address these issues with the new Conquest system ASAP.

 

honestly i was, by and large, fine with conquest as it was. the only thing i didn't like was crafting weeks with small numbers of planets, like iokath.

I am very disenfranchised with this whole disaster. they have 16 days to convince me it's worth staying.

[JakRoanin]

Not to whine or anything but since personal conquest objectives require group content could you add those things to the group finder menus for non-guilded players? I don't want to join a guild, but for times I need a group its hard to find them.

[Deathsus]

Trying to be positive but honestly there is absolutely nothing to be positive about. In a single patch you have sucessfully destroyed much that has been the uniquenesses that drew people to play this game.

Words like these have made this game worthy of playing and stand out among other MMP's: uniqueness, creativity, competitiveness, inviduality, and challenge.

 

You have removed several aspects of the game that have destroyed these qualities of the game.

(1) Responding to the cries of a very few lazy, self serving players, you removed the challenges to decorate strongholds with individual creativity that provided incentive to working their players and playng the game

in order to reach achievements and bonuses - whether that's with 300 chairs or 200 yavin soldiers or with millions of credits of unique decos - who gives a crap! Let's just let people have them for some credits - this evens out the gameplay...? You ignore the fact that the rest of us still had to put forth effort and spend time and credits to earn ours and place whatever we might place in strongholds, especially for those of us who decorated elaborately. Sour grapes? Not at all! You obviously gave no thought to how this effects game play. You have ban players for doing less than what you have just done effecting other players and the game economy. How is this? Have you given any thought to how this destroys the economy of a great portion of the game. Whether on the AH or dealing with the many vnedors that, oh yea ...you had to earn rep with the many different factions in order to get the decos. Ah, but who gives a crap...it's just a game.

 

Talking about affecting game play:

You have previously raised the amount of toons players could have. Why? Your new conquest destroys any and all incentive (and ability)to make conquest on multiple toons.

You have removed the incentive to play WZ's and GSF by limiting the the ability to get credit for participating in matches. You have handily rewarded the hackers (which you have repeatedly and continually refused to do anything about) and removed the ability of anyone to at least get credit for enduring the pain of putting up with them even though you know you don't stand a chance of scoring a win unless you were lucky enough to get a match without hackers - which is few and far between.

 

You have destroyed the incentives to do (multiple?) FP's and Ops (Or to do them at all) in order to achieve conquest points - especialy (once again ) on multiple toons.

You've destroyed the incentive to craft with the changes that you have made to the crafting - increasing the amount of materials needed over 5-fold and reducing the conquest reward at ridiculous cost.

 

You've successfully destroyed any incentive to strive for end-game content or hard-mode content

 

Do you not understand that making so many aspects of the game legacy - bound limits any real ability for progression in the game. Eliminating duplication with legacy is one thing but what you have done with legacy with this patch destroys the game play and incentives to play.Vote to BAN YOU!

 

I want to suggest that you go to the EA investors web site and review the code of ethics and creed. You're in violation of your own code.

UI changes are very disappointing. You can take the position that pepole will complain about changes because people generally just don't like change and there's a bit of truth in that point. But if you're going to change something and represent it as being for the better then it should exhibit better qualities. The point that is glaringly obvious is the UI changes are not thought out; They are tremendously lacking in needed detail and are in many aspects confusing. This after you represent that there was great thought and 6-7 months worth of work in this..? Realy? To improve the quality of play? BS!

 

So It appears that you have effectively catered to the few single players who aren'ts uninvolved with guilds and don't want any challenges and want everything for nothing and really don't want challenges or incentives in the game. and certainly had no interest in conquest.

Your stated goal was to "even the playing field" while in fact you ensured that only the very large guilds with large active rosters will have any success - GREAT JOB - YOU FAIL

 

You say that you want to hear from the community but you do nothing about listening to us. You drove the bus right of the cliff and now want what..? input? BS! Hears my input I can't deal with your stupidity any longer. You've made another huge, absurd, moronic change to destroy the game...Again!

 

If you don't respond to the community on this one - REVERSE THIS PATCH! FIRE YOUR SO-Called DEVELOPERS (who must also work as double agents for Blizzard). THEN...This time I let my subscription go! Enough aggrivation already. It's just a game.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Deathsus

[digimass]

this may be long... I will attempt to provide data on this. I am in a conquest guild on Sat (1 of the top 10), and have encouraged my other guild mates to post as well to help. Eric is welcome to message me at any time to get exact info for that.

 

Currently I am the top conquest for my guild at 25k. I did this before we started burning lblo on ev gf. Other people in my guild are at the 20k mark, but not a whole lot, and our main conquest leader is only slightly trailing behind me at 20k+.

 

I ate a few stacks of 10 of invasion forces on this toon, crafted 10 invasion forces as well. Did the illum heroic (imp side) and this is what got me to 20k. Well, that and being credited randomly 5k each (2x bosses randomly) while i was doing my illum heroic (Grav & Surg).

 

We worked on last boss lock out (lblo) ev after that, where I received its on 2 different characters and 2 other characters did not ( I ran 2 dps, 1 tank, and 1 heals)

 

I am giving you this info to fix it. Its all fx0rd up, and defintly was better before you tried to improve it. My guild uses conquest to get people together and if you fail to up the low points, correct the bugs, ,and make conquest viable again, there will not be a guild full of subscribers left to play this game. My advice to you is RESET back to pre 5.8. It is broke, and you are damaging your sub base. Work out your bugs and if you need testers, let my guild know, we are more than happy to help as long as you aren't just going to ignore us, or the rest of your player base.

Edited March 21, 2018 by digimass

[Lord_Javt]

Hey folks,

 

Feel free to use this thread as a source of general feedback on the Conquest revamp. We will be reading through the thread (and of course the rest of the forums) and gathering feedback.

 

-eric

 

Please bring back old conquest, i have tons of alts and now i have no reason to play any of them, im even considering stop playing my main if this goes on because is just not worth it anymore, SWTOR was a good window for me to relax a few hours a day running an ops, talking with friends and get rewarded for those little hours each week but now, is just not possible, because im done with my normal playing schedule, i barely get a fraction of the conquest i need and now i cant do it with my alts, so unless this changes ill have to unsub, wich is painful since i am a player who has stick with you guys since launch.

[fishpeople]

At this point I would imagine it will take mass unsubs for the Devs to reconsider this faux pas!

 

Just what we need.

[azathothgr]

Just what we need.

 

What we need is better devs, feels like

[ArkonCh]

After much thought, I have decided to cancel my sub, now they have to convince me to resub.

I would suggest everyone do the same.

No more words, actions.

[Viraxis]

After much thought, I have decided to cancel my sub, now they have to convince me to resub.

I would suggest everyone do the same.

No more words, actions.

 

I did the same, said for other reason and I let them know in the details it was because of them screwing up conquest especially for pvp'rs

[Loadsamonie]

The real kick in the balls is that I literally just bought 60 days of sub time the day before the patch went live. Suddenly I feel like my money was wasted.

[SithKoriandr]

My first impression, is I hate the PvP, must win, aspect.

 

I'm going to PvP anyways. But doing strictly PvP before, wasn't the easiest way (imo) to get conquest points and now it got more difficult.

 

Still going to do it, because I want to get to that 100 Valor!

[Damask_Rose]

Well, I logged on, looked at how few points I could earn without a massive grind and thought about pulling my conquest alts out of their guilds. Then I logged off having no further will to play despite 2x cxp.

 

I thought this revamp was supposed to reinvigorate conquests? I was expecting more and more varied ways to earn points, not less!

[TrixxieTriss]

After much thought, I have decided to cancel my sub, now they have to convince me to resub.

I would suggest everyone do the same.

No more words, actions.

 

Agreed

[Loadsamonie]

Agreed

 

With all of these unsubs, I wouldn't be surprised if EA announces the closing of SWToR servers by the summer.

[TrixxieTriss]

With all of these unsubs, I wouldn't be surprised if EA announces the closing of SWToR servers by the summer.

 

Or merging all the servers into one.

[Ibokagain]

Sure Eric,

 

Let me do just that, from a long time Subscriber, this new system, simply put, sucks. You all need to do a patch, revert back to the pre 5.8 way it was and rethink the whole revamp getting feedback from your subs prior to any changes. This was a Colossal waste of time. I can not even believe that you would take a great part of the game and trash it the way you did. Let's talk about all of the changes that have negatively impacted this part of the game:

 

1. Crafting: Obliterated - now five levels of components are needs for a single war supply?? That is just plain Stupid! And You all changed the definition of the Stronghold Bonuses exciting some people that they had a better chance at higher bonuses just to destroy the values.

 

2. Warzones: All you have done to PVP is repeatedly trash it, first removing PVP Ranked gear,

basically destroying lower PVP and Solo Ranked and now there is no Participation points for Conquests. Thanks.

 

3. Operations: What is so bad about Lockouts?? Or if there is a problem with them so be it,

just make it a requirement that for credit a character must complete the whole Op for credit, but, no you ruined the opportunity to do Operations for Conquest on Multiple Characters. If you all have such a problem with duplicate characters than why on earth have you increased the number of characters that a person can have on an account by so much.

 

Let's Go On!!!

 

4. Flashpoints: A great idea, fun idea, allowing groups of four to experience different aspects of the game with various challenges at various levels. Prior to 5.8 there were Groupfinder and Hardmode selections which were available offering challenges with nice rewards if people were game enough to take them on. Now you all have basically said to us, pardon my French but, F/U, no more of these rewards for challenges for you.

 

You know what I am done, because, I doubt that you or anyone else in Bioware gives a damn or that any changes to this once great part of a game that it feels like you all are trying to destroy will be taken seriously enough that something will be done.

 

A truly disgusted Subscriber,

 

LadyTremor

 

couldn't of said it any better Lady Tremor!