Well, I guess Kotaku gave us their own Producer's Note. SWTOR could Shut Down

[Jadescythe]

SWTOR team has never been keen on saying anything until it's absolutely sure.

 

This is the most concerning part. The fact that they can't come out and say they are absolutely sure the game is not going to be sunset means it's possible that it will. We might get that statement when they make a decision, but silence indicates to me that the article is accurate and SWTOR future is "up in the air".

[ZionHalcyon]

This is the most concerning part. The fact that they can't come out and say they are absolutely sure the game is not going to be sunset means it's possible that it will. We might get that statement when they make a decision, but silence indicates to me that the article is accurate and SWTOR future is "up in the air".

 

I got a feeling this uncomfortable silence is only going to linger a bit too.

[Seireeni]

This is the most concerning part. The fact that they can't come out and say they are absolutely sure the game is not going to be sunset means it's possible that it will. We might get that statement when they make a decision, but silence indicates to me that the article is accurate and SWTOR future is "up in the air".

 

I can't say this doesn't worry me too... But, trying to look on the bright side, what could they say? "This game is never gonna shut town" is obviously not true, and something like "this game has at least two years left" would be interpreted by the doomsday people as "this game is gonna be shut down after two years". No way to win here.

[Jadescythe]

I can't say this doesn't worry me too... But, trying to look on the bright side, what could they say? "This game is never gonna shut town" is obviously not true, and something like "this game has at least two years left" would be interpreted by the doomsday people as "this game is gonna be shut down after two years". No way to win here.

 

Just something along the lines of "There are not currently any discussions on a date to end development on SWTOR" would be fine.

[Eshvara]

I can't say this doesn't worry me too... But, trying to look on the bright side, what could they say? "This game is never gonna shut town" is obviously not true, and something like "this game has at least two years left" would be interpreted by the doomsday people as "this game is gonna be shut down after two years". No way to win here.

 

Exactly.

[ArdeliaAgain]

Holocron, I'm noticing that you keep saying "lots or games have done X and Y", and keep talking about universal market absolutes....yet every example you list is SWG.

 

I get it....the NGE touched you in a bad place. That happened to a lot of people. I'm sure that makes you a little wary. But seriously, not every game is handled the same way...your experience with SWG is one way this could go, if it's actually happening....not the only way.

 

It also didn't happen EXACTLY the way you describe it, either (bad memories, prolly...again, I get it). The NGE debacle happened in August of 2009. A whole bunch, and I mean a whole heck of a lot, of folks left then, yes. But SOE kept adding features and content (at a reduced rate) for a couple of years after. They also didn't pull the plug "days before"; SOE announced server closures in June of 2011. They didn't actually close until December of 2011...I remember the last few days of closing events, and I remember people actually re-subbing by the Septeber new account creation cutoff in order to be a part of it.

 

In any case, I'm going to go back to my primary point: play today's game. If you're having fun with what's there right now, go have fun with it. If you're not, don't play something you don't like in the hopes it MIGHT someday be better. Either way, I just don't see the logic in basing entertainment decisions on what might or might not be there in 12 months. That's for mortgages and jobs and marriages and such, not games.

Edited January 25, 2018 by ArdeliaAgain

[Holocron]

Holocron, I'm noticing that you keep saying "lots or games have done X and Y", and keep talking about universal market absolutes....yet every example you list is SWG.

 

I get it....the NGE touched you in a bad place. That happened to a lot of people. I'm sure that makes you a little wary. But seriously, not every game is handled the same way...your experience with SWG is one way this could go, if it's actually happening....not the only way.

 

It also didn't happen EXACTLY the way you describe it, either (bad memories, prolly...again, I get it). The NGE debacle happened in August of 2009. A whole bunch, and I mean a whole heck of a lot, of folks left then, yes. But SOE kept adding features and content (at a reduced rate) for a couple of years after. They also didn't pull the plug "days before"; SOE announced server closures in June of 2011. They didn't actually close until December of 2011...I remember the last few days of closing events, and I remember people actually re-subbing by the Septeber new account creation cutoff in order to be a part of it.

 

In any case, I'm going to go back to my primary point: play today's game. If you're having fun with what's there right now, go have fun with it. If you're not, don't play something you don't like in the hopes it MIGHT someday be better. Either way, I just don't see the logic in basing entertainment decisions on what might or might not be there in 12 months. That's for mortgages and jobs and marriages and such, not games.

 

There are plenty of examples out there, but I only used swg since it is the closest relevant example. I didn't say that the game died at the NGE, I was referencing that a game studio was willing to drop content for money mere days before they launched something they knew was controversial and would very likely impact subs. I'm making the comparison with EA with its recent controversial track record, that they would be willing to do the exact same with SWTOR and getting every penny from us while they can.

 

ps. - I'm not bitter about the NGE either. It sucked, sure, but I feel the content and advancements the devs made in the remaining years of SWG was some of the best that the game ever had. And that was the result of a small but focused dev staff, that did their best. Honestly, I think the devs here could learn something from those final swg devs in terms of content creation and execution.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Holocron

[serenitty]

They've tweeted a sale on game price just a few mins ago, can't see a shut down as a definite thing if they are still trying to pull in players. Promising news hopefully.

[translucentwolf]

ps. - I'm not bitter about the NGE either. It sucked, sure, but I feel the content and advancements the devs made in the remaining years of SWG was some of the best that the game ever had. And that was the result of a small but focused dev staff, that did their best. Honestly, I think the devs here could learn something from those final swg devs in terms of content creation and execution.

 

Look at Andromeda. Articles have been written explaining how Bioware *knew* it would not receive any post launch support, and they still launched with the usual Triple A game fanfare, and sold various bits of collectors gear, etc.

 

This particular pony has already been ridden pretty hard. Initial sales ( 120 million were made on the cost of physical product ) and subs in the first year or so paid back the 200 mill dev cost. The other 80 mill would have been paid back by 500k people subbing for 1 year. And we know they had more than that, for longer than that.

 

So, anyway, this was not a *loss* for anyone, for a while.

 

Over time, player base dropped, and revenue dropped.

 

If they're not at point where the revenue isn't worth the headache, they'll shut things down.

 

I for one will be giving Anthem a go.

 

See ya'll there next year.

[Jadescythe]

They've tweeted a sale on game price just a few mins ago, can't see a shut down as a definite thing if they are still trying to pull in players. Promising news hopefully.

 

This is either missing the /s or it's the sweetest, most naive thing I'll read today.

[mastersdr]

Keith has hinted an expansion coming out sometime, Although it is a very vague hint. He said "So I will leave you with, not commenting on expansion plans. You'll have to wait to hear about that!" The fact he said anything about an expansion leads me to believe there's something coming out, otherwise, he didn't have to say anything at all. I believed they will announce it in the summer but in light of this article, I think they need to say something in the winter roadmap to ease everyone worries. Yes, It is a very vague hint that may not lead to anywhere. Keith, if you are reading this please say something if there's or not going to be an expansion in the roadmap and not lead us on.

[mlbstarscream]

I'm certainly no mmo expert. Just a dumb guy with an opinion. I play both WoW and SWTOR, but love SWTOR much more than WoW. I've played SWTOR since launch and enjoyed everything the game has done to this point. I guess my take on this possible shut down or development cessation would be that I don't see how SWTOR could be in imminent danger of going away given all the crummy mmo's that are still out there and kicking. Lesser mmo's that I've tried and think are just weak have been going for a long time and are still alive. Even though I love Tolkien more than any other fantasy or sci fi genre, I've tried LOTRO and find it just plain bad. SWTOR (imo) outshines it in every way possible. And yet LOTRO has been going for like 11 years, right? And there's DCUO, running I think 7 years now and to my knowledge still in operation, even though it doesn't come close to SWTOR quality.

 

So, I guess, I just have a hard time seeing a great game like SWTOR that's been able to maintain a subscriber base, going away, while other crummy mmo's are still going. Wouldn't they fall before SWTOR?

 

Am I totally off in my thinking on this? Again, not an mmo expert, just my thoughts and reasoning when I hear of SWTOR's possible demise.

[Jadescythe]

Keith has hinted an expansion coming out sometime, Although it is a very vague hint. He said "So I will leave you with, not commenting on expansion plans. You'll have to wait to hear about that!" The fact he said anything about an expansion leads me to believe there's something coming out, otherwise, he didn't have to say anything at all. I believed they will announce it in the summer but in light of this article, I think they need to say something in the winter roadmap to ease everyone worries. Yes, It is a very vague hint that may not lead to anywhere. Keith, if you are reading this please say something if there's or not going to be an expansion in the roadmap and not lead us on.

 

My only issue is that he didn't say it in the livestream on video. It was a comment from the account in chat which would be much harder to document. And, of course, it's always possible they planned to do an expansion but lost all of their resources to Anthem and/or EA decides to stop pursuing new content in the game. Whether anything in the article is true or not, the team planning an expansion doesn't guarantee it to happen.

[spectreclees]

They've tweeted a sale on game price just a few mins ago, can't see a shut down as a definite thing if they are still trying to pull in players. Promising news hopefully.

That's cute... I appreciate your nativity on the subject. But hey, maybe you are right. We'll never know because Bioware won't even chime in and reassure it's player base.

[JakRoanin]

That's cute... I appreciate your nativity on the subject. But hey, maybe you are right. We'll never know because Bioware won't even chime in and reassure it's player base.

 

Mr. Kanning said an expansion's coming at the last cantina!

[spectreclees]

Mr. Kanning said an expansion's coming at the last cantina!

 

Expansions can be scrapped with the flick of a finger. Without any concrete evidence it is even being worked on, you are basing your assumption off of words spoken. If you look deeper and see the correlation between this article and the amount of content being offered in SWTOR. You can clearly see how the team has been downsized to a skeleton screw and that 'if' an expansion was even being worked on, it could be scrapped to work on another project, Anthem. For all we know, an expansion was being worked on after KOTFE was launched but was systematically scrapped when Anthem wasn't meeting quotas.

Edited January 25, 2018 by spectreclees

[TUXs]

Mr. Kanning said an expansion's coming at the last cantina!

He did? You were there and heard it? Have any audio of this claim? This is the first news of this I've heard, which is why I'm asking. I know he mentioned they'd talk about expansion plans at a later date, but that doesn't mean an expansion is coming or even in the works...I don't believe one is tbh. I think 5.0 was our last "expansion", and that was smaller than any other MMO's normal patches...

[TheLexinator]

Really wish there was an official response from Bioware on this.

 

Would also be a shame if the whole game was shut down. They can keep it in maintenance mode and generating revenue.

[Tsillah]

Look at Andromeda. Articles have been written explaining how Bioware *knew* it would not receive any post launch support, and they still launched with the usual Triple A game fanfare, and sold various bits of collectors gear, etc.

 

This particular pony has already been ridden pretty hard. Initial sales ( 120 million were made on the cost of physical product ) and subs in the first year or so paid back the 200 mill dev cost. The other 80 mill would have been paid back by 500k people subbing for 1 year. And we know they had more than that, for longer than that.

 

So, anyway, this was not a *loss* for anyone, for a while.

 

Over time, player base dropped, and revenue dropped.

 

If they're not at point where the revenue isn't worth the headache, they'll shut things down.

 

I for one will be giving Anthem a go.

 

See ya'll there next year.

 

As for Andromeda, even if they broke even or made some profit on it, it clearly didn't do nearly as well as they would've hoped. For an investment company like EA that's not good enough because they have to deal with share holders that are looking big successes which drive up their share values.

 

BF2 also undoubtedly sold enough to make a profit but it hurt the share prices and got Disney's panties in a twist over the negative press.

 

It's not just about making a profit but making a big enough profit to ensure share holders are content. There can be a big difference between the two. Whereas an independent game company may be fine with a smaller profit margin, investors are not.

 

That's something that is in play here. I wish you much enjoyment with Anthem if it does see the light of day. I'll need some convincing still before I would be interested in a destiny style game.

[Jadescythe]

Really wish there was an official response from Bioware on this.

 

Would also be a shame if the whole game was shut down. They can keep it in maintenance mode and generating revenue.

 

Possibly. Keep in mind that player investment will surely drop if it is in maintenance mode. Players will stick around, but many subscribers will leave and cartel market sales will surely be almost non-existent.

[kodrac]

Keith has hinted an expansion coming out sometime,

 

He didn't hint at an expansion. He said he couldn't talk about expansion plans. That could just as well mean there are no expansion plans to discuss. You heard what you wanted. It's called confirmation bias. Just like this article. If you believe the game was already slowly dying then this is confirmation. On the other hand, if you believe Kotoku is clickbait *****, this is confirmation of it.

[Jadescythe]

He didn't hint at an expansion. He said he couldn't talk about expansion plans. That could just as well mean there are no expansion plans to discuss. You heard what you wanted. It's called confirmation bias. Just like this article. If you believe the game was already slowly dying then this is confirmation. On the other hand, if you believe Kotoku is clickbait *****, this is confirmation of it.

 

I think the end result doesn't matter. I don't see anyone arguing that they don't think much of the SWTOR staff got pulled into Anthem to get it completed, they focus on the game ending or not. Personally, it's not a good sign whether it is coming to a close or not that they're willing to dramatically cut back staffing on this game to launch another one when the content already comes at such a slow pace.

[Quraswren]

Really wish there was an official response from Bioware on this.

 

Would also be a shame if the whole game was shut down. They can keep it in maintenance mode and generating revenue.

 

I'd like something from them as well but maintenance mode just for them to generate revenue would be cause for many to leave and stop buying anytying off the market knowing the game is going no where. Probably why bioware is hesitant to say anything. Bottom line is money to bioware and ea, so they wont kill off that revenue stream to soon no matter how passionate about SW they claim to be.

 

Sadly, this looks like a "soft" leak to me. Not direct but it caught on fairly quickly. I expect a "hard" leak to come but not this week.

[Stellarcrusade]

https://kotaku.com/bioware-doubles-down-on-anthem-as-pressure-mounts-1822380989

 

From the article:

"BioWare has also discussed ending development on the multiplayer online game Star Wars: The Old Republic, those sources said, although one person familiar with the studio told me recently that plans are still up in the air."

 

So not definite, but it looks like if this is being discussed, this is not good news for us.

 

Interestingly if they just ended new development, but left all the staffing as it is, it would take 100 years to fix all the bugs.

[Suzsi]

It was successful for not being DA2. Not much of a high bar there.

 

It also has more fanworks then any other bioware game.

 

Fanfiction numbers alone are doubled from all the other games. A bad game doesn't generate that much fan content.

 

There may be a few who dont want to see it or admit it but dragon age inquisition was hugely successful. It got nothing but good reviews, its still one of the high rated games on xbox one among other places.

 

In anycase anthem can bugger off.

 

SWTOR is the only EA game I still give $$$ to currently and if they stop generating content for it im done with EA for good and I won't be looking back.

 

I stopped spending money in other EA games (goh etc) after they gave andromeda no dlc but stayed with swtor, no more swtor = me done with EA for good. Itll be the final nail in that coffin. No one else makes games like this, closing it would be a stupid move.