Well, I guess Kotaku gave us their own Producer's Note. SWTOR could Shut Down

[LordArtemis]

Thanks for the offers guys, but I think i would rather you stick around....I know, its silly.

[yoomazir]

Looks like Bioware upcoming game, Anthem, is taking all the workforce available to it.

Personally the Anthem reveal trailer left me simply not caring: the setting seems bland, the armors looked silly and uninspired, and the gameplay seemed generic as f***.

Now what really boggles my mind is why EA, having a 10 year deal with the SW franchise, didn't ask BW to focus on a action rpg SW game instead of Anthem. BW has the experience, they could have made a game combining gameplay elements from SWTOR and ME and it would have sold like pancackes. Instead we're probably witnessing BW putting one foot in the grave already...

 

Such a shame Bioware, such a shame.

[JennyFlynn]

Seems like I’m locked in this thread because the rest of the gen forums say they are in maintenance 🙄

 

That doesn’t bode well for this discussion

 

Next time that happens, CTRL F5.

 

Haha, that made me laugh, but whatever it is, it's too late for me. Now I just need to find a new home for 200 million credits for someone on Darth Malgus.

A real shame to see you go Tsillah!

 

 

Anthem doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned. I don't care how much people will rave it's brilliant, how much praise it gets, that it's BW/EA or whatever. If that game becomes responsible for destroying this one, I want nothing to do with it. And it really isn't my sort of game to begin with.

Edited January 26, 2018 by JennyFlynn

[casirabit]

Haha, that made me laugh, but whatever it is, it's too late for me. Now I just need to find a new home for 200 million credits for someone on Darth Malgus.

 

Good luck Tsillah. My sub runs out at the end of January so it depends on if they respond whether or not I renew. Guild members are already unsubbing because of the inability of BW to respond to the rumors especially due to the fact how things have been lately.

[DarthDymond]

2023, right before their license for the IP expires.

But it won't get more resources and if EA doesn't get a new license from Disney in 2022 that may also be the end of SWTOR since the Star Wars IP belongs to Disney and EA is just leasing it for now.

I think people are conflating the 10-year exclusivity agreement that EA signed with Disney in 2013, with the lifespan / renewal period of EA's license for using the Star Wars IP in connection with this specific game.

 

The 2013-2023 agreement was just a contract wherein Disney agreed "Hey, EA, for the next ten years, in exchange for [REDACTED] we agree that we will not enter into any agreements with Activision, or Sega, or CD Projekt Red, etc., etc., etc., to produce new mainstream Star Wars games or develop any in-house, you're the only one who gets access to the license for mainstream video games during that time." Before that agreement, LucasArts made all kinds of one-off agreements with different publishers and developers to make Star Wars games, which is why you had Petroglyph making Empire at War at the same time that Pandemic was making (the original) Battlefront II, and LucasArts was making Republic Commando in-house.

 

Once 2023 rolls around, Disney/LucasArts can go back to that original spreading-the-license-around approach for future games, or go ahead and sign another exclusivity deal with EA or another company for future games, but that probably won't directly affect existing games. No one went around burning all the copies of The Force Unleashed II in 2013 when EA got the exclusive rights, and you can still buy Empire at War on Steam.

 

An ongoing title, like SWTOR does probably have some sort of renewal period (or conditions under which the license can be pulled from it), but whatever contract controls EA's continuing use of the Star Wars license for this game would have been inked back somewhere around 2006-2008, whenever development actually started. That's the agreement that would include terms for whether that license has to be periodically renewed and, if so, how often.

Edited January 26, 2018 by DarthDymond

[ivanhedgehog]

Mr. Kanning said an expansion's coming at the last cantina!

And his bosses can tell him that it will not happen at any time.

[ivanhedgehog]

But the damage has already been done.

 

While some people are still looking at this as glass-half-full, the entire community -- on here, on Twitter, on Reddit, everywhere -- is buzzing about the Kotaku article.

 

A business needs to do damage control. They could do plenty of damage control by releasing their roadmap TOMORROW. They don't have to say the game isn't ending... they could just demonstrate that they have stuff in the pipeline for the next 6-8 months.

 

That would go a long way towards stopping the hemorrhage.

 

Someone in charge over there is asleep at the switch.

 

They dont even have to release the roadmap...A simple statement "We are aware about the article blah blah blah. We remain fully committed to developement blah blah blah. please stand by for our roadmap which will lay out our winter objectives for the last day of winter blahblahblah" That would at least slow down the burn they are experiencing right now.

[Eshvara]

And his bosses can tell him that it will not happen at any time.

 

A lot of things can happen at any time.

[kodrac]

 

Best post in the entire thread. QFE!

[McBaal]

The forum since someone posted this article with 2 LINES of speculation about SWTOR reminds me of Titanic. We need the band to calm down everyone so...

 

Update: Here it is...just dont jump the SWTOR ship yet, the water is cold and the next SW ship is years away...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBox5HLLyy0

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by McBaal

[ZionHalcyon]

Just wanted to point out something for those who say that an expansion is on its way.

 

Both Kotaku report and a new expansion can be true.

 

Given how long it takes things to be developed in an MMO, it's possible that the expansion is the last one. It is also possible teens have been pulled off the expansion to work on Anthem as their part in it is finished.

 

What this means is we get the expansion and then nothing after.

[Kaldron_Fell]

Good luck Tsillah. My sub runs out at the end of January so it depends on if they respond whether or not I renew. Guild members are already unsubbing because of the inability of BW to respond to the rumors especially due to the fact how things have been lately.

Yeah I know how they feel. I've burnt down my house on rumors that property taxes might increase...

[Eshvara]

Just wanted to point out something for those who say that an expansion is on its way.

 

Both Kotaku report and a new expansion can be true.

 

Given how long it takes things to be developed in an MMO, it's possible that the expansion is the last one. It is also possible teens have been pulled off the expansion to work on Anthem as their part in it is finished.

 

What this means is we get the expansion and then nothing after.

 

It did cross my mind, if I have to be honest.👀 Only time will tell!

Edited January 26, 2018 by Eshvara

[kirorx]

Just wanted to point out something for those who say that an expansion is on its way.

 

Both Kotaku report and a new expansion can be true.

 

Given how long it takes things to be developed in an MMO, it's possible that the expansion is the last one. It is also possible teens have been pulled off the expansion to work on Anthem as their part in it is finished.

 

What this means is we get the expansion and then nothing after.

 

An expansion that had a FINALE storyline for each class would be an awesome way for the game to go out on.

 

Maybe your character would even be killed off in the main storyline. You could still play after the story was complete of course, but how much fun would that be. You could have recorded your entire story from being being an apprentice to your final demise. That sure would be more fun that just a "disconnected" at the final hour.

[AngFour]

An expansion that had a FINALE storyline for each class would be an awesome way for the game to go out on.

 

Maybe your character would even be killed off in the main storyline. You could still play after the story was complete of course, but how much fun would that be. You could have recorded your entire story from being being an apprentice to your final demise. That sure would be more fun that just a "disconnected" at the final hour.

 

I would LOVE this IF they gave us the opportunity to replay our class quests with the original characters instead of having to reroll a new one.

[wilkiealbert]

good it needs to be shut down if they cant take in what us players need then y keep it going they do what they wont and the hell with us players and for the ones that pay to play the game its not fare to us we help to keep them working so lesion to what we wont and need

[uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu]

Haha, there has been stupid articles claiming the game is shutting down EVERY YEAR almost since launch. And most of them have been from Kotaku. Doomsayers will never quit until they are right. They just keep moving the goalposts.

[Eanelinea]

Haha, there has been stupid articles claiming the game is shutting down EVERY YEAR almost since launch. And most of them have been from Kotaku. Doomsayers will never quit until they are right. They just keep moving the goalposts.

 

Maybe one day it will shut down, things happen, but I really would prefer the game kept going on. Everquest has been around since about 1999. I know they don't have a star wars license, but it's still going strong and they have a teeny tiny population compared to us. Who knows?

[BlueShiftRecall]

An expansion that had a FINALE storyline for each class would be an awesome way for the game to go out on.

 

Would love this idea for a big finale with our character and all their companions for a class specific mission. When it all comes to end (which one day it ultimately will) I would like to go out with my character and all their companions together one last time to hang out and have one last adventure before saying goodbye to them.

Edited January 26, 2018 by BlueShiftRecall

[Holocron]

Just wanted to point out something for those who say that an expansion is on its way.

 

Both Kotaku report and a new expansion can be true.

 

Given how long it takes things to be developed in an MMO, it's possible that the expansion is the last one. It is also possible teens have been pulled off the expansion to work on Anthem as their part in it is finished.

 

What this means is we get the expansion and then nothing after.

 

Agreed. This is why in my opinion that they will at least string us along for the next year. They already have enough premade content and story for it, but more importantly it allows them to milk more money from us until the launch of Anthem. At that point they likely will shutter us and move the remaining team over there. That is of course if Anthem is successful.

[uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu]

Would love this idea for a big finale with our character and all their companions for a class specific mission. When it all comes to end (which one day it ultimately will) I would like to go out with my character and all their companions together one last time to hang out and have one last adventure before saying goodbye to them.

 

I've been saying this for a while now too, not even that the game is gonna shut down anyways just that they really oughta just end the "story" portions now and focus on PvPers, Ops players etc. seeing as they really are doing the bare minimum with story as things stand. Two minute cutscenes and 20 minute FP's passing as story. Why not just give it a decent ending expansion to wrap the entire story up in a neat little bow then shift all focus to making the game better for the other player types. I'm not even one of them and I'm saying this. After all, I'd still have the class stories all there to play and they are the only good stories really anyways.

Edited January 26, 2018 by uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Alandross]

Agreed. This is why in my opinion that they will at least string us along for the next year. They already have enough premade content and story for it, but more importantly it allows them to milk more money from us until the launch of Anthem. At that point they likely will shutter us and move the remaining team over there. That is of course if Anthem is successful.

 

You have a bit backwards, not that I disagree they may pull resources away from SWTOR (and have) and won't give it back, but it won't be because Anthem launches. The initial game launch is where the bulk of resources are needed (even in a maintained game like Anthem will be), that's why they've been pulling resources from other projects for years, part of the whole Andromeda story and one of the many things that screwed it's chances. In reality this is nothing new, this is how game dev works. New games need a bunch of resources, especially if it's a high profile project, so other teams are pulled from until launch and then some resources are free dup afterwards (though usually in an initial burst and then trickling back, but in live games this is a bit different).

 

The reality is Bioware is in real trouble if Anthem doesn't succeed, though it's success doesn't guarantee SWTOR's success, it's failure very likely dooms it. A massive Anthem profit would mean more money for Bioware to spread around again.

 

Unfortunately times are not good for Bioware right now. A long chain of knocks have been slowly building up. DA2 being something people didn't like overall (I liked it a lot but I was the minority), ME3's ending controversy, DA:I was received very well initially but degraded overtime (I absolutely loved it and the writing and characters for the main content, companies, and best side content is genuinely top notch, but the open world merge attempt with their normal style just confused a lot of players and really wasn't compelling to many), ME:A was a bomb (a very underrated game with some serious flaws, mostly that it doesn't live up to bioware quality even if the issues most people had are rampant in games like Bethesda's), then of course they dropped Andromeda, I still think that was a mistake. Continued fixes and some quality DLC (like a free one to start off) could have really brought out some of the great parts of that game and proved they were willing to stick with their games.

 

That leads us to now... Bioware is very much a victim of it's own success. They've been around making some of the most memorable games in all of gaming history. Other game studios simply don't have that baggage. For example if Witcher and Witcher 2 had come out after WItcher 3, those games would have been received very differently. CDR is eventually going to hit downs like any studio does, especially as they try to scale up (which they have already, I mean The WItcher 3 had twice the budget of MA:E). The reality is when you make something of a very high quality and very liked it's really hard to keep living up to that, Bioware did for the most part for a very long time, EA or no EA it's unlikely any company will live up to that, especially if you push to new IPs, new formats, and are class leading in your style. Unfortunately Bioware made too many mistakes and after making too many successes, a really bad combo. The communities have turned toxic, partially because Bioware made some mistakes and partly because people are jerks and who knows why groupthink turns sour sometimes.

 

SWTOR likely was on the decline for the past 2-3 years, the reality is MMOs usually are on a rollercoaster of ups and downs, sometimes the downs being long and scary. If anything we've seen many cases where MMOs can turn things around. ESO is a great example, mediocre at launch and they managed to improve the game and capture people's attention enough to give it another try. SWTOR actually is a good story in it's first couple years in fact. It launched, people came and played, finished the story content and found almost no endgame MMO content and were leaving rapidly. Their switch to F2P with the Cartel Market saved the game, despite a lot of naysayers. The year or two after that the earning reports for EA showed off SWTOR's turnaround like a shining jewel.

 

Of course they also continued some relatively decent content too, including new endgame content, flashpoints, ops, etc... that in combination with the constant stream of the Cartel Market saved the game. They need to make another shift to save it again. Ironically I think their pattern at first was better, not really sure why they shifted, especially away from a paid expansion type content every year (like other MMOs).

 

In any case the last year of serious lack of content what pretty telling... Likely they've bleed too many users and too much revenue so they had to downscale, which of course results in less content and less happy players. They need Bioware and EA to risk pushing some more money in it. Likely the OP reference that they've thought about stopping development has been thrown around for years now, so not a surprise at all.

 

I really hope SWTOR doesn't die, I hope it can get to some sort of typical MMO content update cycle... there's a lot of great things in this game even if there were some serious mistakes. With that said at this point for Bioware overall Anthem needs to be a mega success for the sake of SWTOR and honestly the Mass Effect franchise as well as to put the next Dragon Age on it's best footing (though likely I think the next Dragon Age will come out even if Anthem bombs, but beyond that who knows).

 

Long rant but I've been in the game industry for over a decade now and a lot of people don't realize that every studio they love goes through this sort of thing and the right sequence of events can take the best studio down. A lot of people blame EA and it surely deserves some of the blame but Bioware was under EA when Mass Effect 2 started dev and finished, the most liked game of that franchise, as well as while Origins was under it's last 2 years of dev. Also the Bioware owners sold it to EA, so if you think EA are jerks for selling out their player bases for profit then blame the Bioware owners who made the same decision. In the end that's what companies do, these aren't friends hanging out, they are companies and have always been driven by profit, just sometimes that aligns with things we personally like and sometimes they don't. Profit means more game dev so often that's a good decision for the company even for people who love the content they make, but like anyone they can make mistakes like we do too.

[ExarSun]

Its silly practice what they are doing in the end. If you need revenue, make an expansion, and make people pay for it. Illogical to make content so scarce and expect people to invest money in the game...

[Khelekin]

Throwing SWTOR under the bus for Anthem is a really ****** thing to do. I could understand if it was some grand ambitious project but a loot grinder? Come on. Edited January 27, 2018 by Khelekin

[Holocron]

Throwing SWTOR under the bus for Anthem is a really ****** thing to do. I could understand if it was some grand ambitious project but a loot grinder? Come on.

 

It really is crummy ain't it. All this time we have been wondering why our content release has been abysmally low, and begging and pleading with the dev staff to ramp things up, but now we know why. I'd be surprised if they even have 5 people working on SWTOR. No wonder Eric has to do so much behind the scenes besides community managing.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Holocron