How are solo players finding the push to group?

[Goreshaga]

Sometimes I really wonder what they would say when playing a real Mmorpg and how Solo content is merely a tutorial there and what part of Mmorpg they don't understand. Probably the first to letters...

I'll give you my answer on this : i don't play any other MMORPG, and i'd not play this game either if it was group only with nothing to do solo.

 

The only game where i actually enjoy the multiplayer quests is Monster Hunter. It's sometimes frustrating when you're with someone who's not very good, dies twice and then ragequit, leaving the 3 other players to try to finish the quest without any other possible KO (as you're allowed 2 KO in most of the quests and when the quest fails you actually loose xp, and more so if you died during the quest), but most of the time, when you're with pretty good players it's quite enjoyable.

I play less online now because my connexion is really not good enough and i often randomly gets kicked out of the online mode in the middle of a quest and have to deal with the monster on my own, which is pretty annoying. And i often get the same with SWTOR's group content, which is also a reason why i rarely do anything with other players.

 

As for the original question, I got Hexid with the 3 PvP matches. I really don't like PvP, but at least it was quite fast to do and be done with it for good.

I don't even know what i'm doing most of the time, so i usually try to attack players from the opposite team and heal the ones from my team if i can but that's pretty much all i can do.

[Sareeph]

So you necroed this thread just to bash solo players? Lovely.

 

It's amazing to me that GROOOOUPPPP!!! HUR HUR GROOOOOOOUP! proponents insult anyone who doesn't share their personal playstyle of running in a horde or accuse them of whining, constantly bash people who cannot play to their standards in group activities, and then wonder why some players want nothing to do with that toxicity. Hmm, I have no idea why we wouldn't all line up for that.

 

The class stories were always meant to be one player's story completed solo, and this game has always been open and friendly to solo players. It's why many players are here in the first place. It's too bad that some players can't accept that there are different ways of enjoying a game outside their own POV.

 

Actually a solo player necroed this thread to complain about group play.

[Celise]

I had my time with guilds for a bit, made officer, organised and ran raids a number of times and other activities, the guild disintergrated over the couse of a few months after GC came out, I was relieved to get out of the chain of responsibility to others, never wanted the role to lead others. So i'm done with guilds.

 

If i want to play group content to measure myself against others, i can do that when ever i like. There is no one forcing you to do it neither does one need to feel obligated to try due to external factors pressuring you into it. join when ever you like: operations; pvp; flashpoints and so on. So long as you are on the level and you can contribute your bit, there won't be an issue if you do join in of your own accord.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Celise

[IoNonSoEVero]

Actually a solo player necroed this thread to complain about group play.

 

*shrug* I didn't notice that, but you're right, my bad. I see their post now. FWIW I think Bioware does realize that players want choices including options to solo through, hence the "play your way" push for 6.0.

[Rolodome]

So I realize this is an old topic that has been necroed, but speaking generally, I find the push to do things like vet flashpoints in part for the break. It doesn't always work that way cause some groups are derp town, but if you get a group who is high level and knows what they're doing, you can kind of switch your brain off a bit. I'm used to playing with my brain switched all the way on; not because the solo content is necessarily challenging, but because I gotta figure out what attack to use and when and so on, and pretty much everything is a priority system in one way or another. Doing stuff with a decent group means I can fudge the rotations a lot more (or in some cases, actually do a real rotation without being interrupted constantly) and let other people do some of the brain work.

 

Some groups though... when you've got the kind of person who doesn't like waiting or being a follower, but also doesn't know what they're doing. In particular, the infamous mara who thinks heals come from magic land. Or the merc who is ready to kite to the ends of the earth and play out a rambo fantasy. Or just in general, those people who can't seem to find their out-of-combat heal, while others interpret waiting for someone else to use their out-of-combat heal as a cue for them to pull.

[Damask_Rose]

Sometimes I really wonder what they would say when playing a real Mmorpg and how Solo content is merely a tutorial there and what part of Mmorpg they don't understand. Probably the first to letters...

 

Actually I've played many, many MMOs and none of them treated soloing as a mere tutorial. Since you prefer grouping, you might not be noticing the rich solo play environments most MMOS offer. Nothing about being massive or multiplayer says group. Your definition of MMO is much narrower than the genre is. (And psss... this is a real MMO. It fits every criteria, whether you like it or not.)

[OlBuzzard]

Actually I've played many, many MMOs and none of them treated soloing as a mere tutorial. Since you prefer grouping, you might not be noticing the rich solo play environments most MMOS offer. Nothing about being massive or multiplayer says group. Your definition of MMO is much narrower than the genre is. (And psss... this is a real MMO. It fits every criteria, whether you like it or not.)

 

You and I agree completely on this....

Massive and multiplayer does not restrict the possibilities to group play only. I can see why many assume that it implicates group. But group or even gilded play are only aspects that are available.

 

IMO.. the solo player option in SWTOR is done quite well. It has room for improvements .. but for the most part is enjoyable.

[Phazonfreak]

Actually I've played many, many MMOs and none of them treated soloing as a mere tutorial. Since you prefer grouping, you might not be noticing the rich solo play environments most MMOS offer. Nothing about being massive or multiplayer says group. Your definition of MMO is much narrower than the genre is. (And psss... this is a real MMO. It fits every criteria, whether you like it or not.)

 

Well, I clearly wrote Mmorpgs and not MMOs which is an important distinction and most certainly the reason why you deliberately misunderstood me and put some strawmen in your argument. I also never said anything about the fact that I prefer grouping and don't notice or enjoy the Solo content. As of today it is actually the biggest thing that keeps me engaged with Swtor. I just, rather sarcastically, pointed out to the poster who resurrected this old thread that his argument is exactly the kind of whining that he attributes to the players who prefer group content.

 

My definition is narrower simply because Mmorpgs as a genre is much narrower than MMOs since it is a branch of it. If you look at the history of Mmorpgs and how the genre established its core mechanics, you will see that the solo content, which is fun and important, ultimately funnels the activities of the player into shared group content with increasing challenges and increasing rewards. It's the founding principle of the 3 cornerstones of Mmorpgs (Ultima Online, Everquest, WoW) and Swtor is a direct heir to the modern style of WoW. I am no WoW fanatic, but I am quite sure that WoW still follows the established mechanic of pulling you in with rich lore that you can experience Solo which ultimately leads to group content that offers the most desirable things.

 

Im just baffled that solo purists bemoan the fact that there is still some encouragement to do group content as a shared experience with other players, all the while Swtor bends over backwards to be as easy and approachable for their desired solo activities.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Phazonfreak

[IoNonSoEVero]

Im just baffled that solo purists bemoan the fact that there is still some encouragement to do group content as a shared experience with other players, all the while Swtor bends over backwards to be as easy and approachable for their desired solo activities.

 

There's a difference between encouraging group play as in, offering it as a choice (ie, the end of SoR's option to do solo tasks or an Op) and trying to force it by making it the only option to advance a storyline (Oricon) or gear (Osssus's 258 weapons). If you want a "shared experience with other players" cool, just don't make me do it to progress in the game, and don't sit there insulting those who prefer to solo.

Edited July 8, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero

[Rolodome]

There's a difference between encouraging group play as in, offering it as a choice (ie, the end of SoR's option to do solo tasks or an Op) and trying to force it by making it the only option to advance a storyline (Oricon) or gear (Osssus's 258 weapons). If you want a "shared experience with other players" cool, just don't make me do it to progress in the game, and don't sit there insulting those who prefer to solo.

Perhaps more importantly, SWTOR is fundamentally a solo game, first and foremost. It's born from a single-player franchise, the primary selling point is a single-player story. I mean it's so fundamentally single-player that they didn't realize in the beginning how annoying it would be to have a group doing cutscenes, with some wanting to skip and some not. That was a result of taking a fundamentally solo game design and trying to make it something that accommodates groups.

 

Now if one were to say the things you're saying about a game like vanilla SWG, I don't know if I'd agree; vanilla SWG was fundamentally an interdependent experience. But SWTOR is not that kind of game and neither are most MMOs. Most are single-player games with some optional cooperative play. Or they have a fundamentally group-oriented feature or two, like GW2's old events system at the hearts.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Rolodome

[Damask_Rose]

Well, I clearly wrote Mmorpgs and not MMOs which is an important distinction and most certainly the reason why you deliberately misunderstood me and put some strawmen in your argument. I also never said anything about the fact that I prefer grouping and don't notice or enjoy the Solo content. As of today it is actually the biggest thing that keeps me engaged with Swtor. I just, rather sarcastically, pointed out to the poster who resurrected this old thread that his argument is exactly the kind of whining that he attributes to the players who prefer group content.

 

My definition is narrower simply because Mmorpgs as a genre is much narrower than MMOs since it is a branch of it. If you look at the history of Mmorpgs and how the genre established its core mechanics, you will see that the solo content, which is fun and important, ultimately funnels the activities of the player into shared group content with increasing challenges and increasing rewards. It's the founding principle of the 3 cornerstones of Mmorpgs (Ultima Online, Everquest, WoW) and Swtor is a direct heir to the modern style of WoW. I am no WoW fanatic, but I am quite sure that WoW still follows the established mechanic of pulling you in with rich lore that you can experience Solo which ultimately leads to group content that offers the most desirable things.

 

Im just baffled that solo purists bemoan the fact that there is still some encouragement to do group content as a shared experience with other players, all the while Swtor bends over backwards to be as easy and approachable for their desired solo activities.

 

What you are saying here is very different than the statement you made that I quoted. I did not "deliberately misunderstand you" and "put strawmen in my argument". MMOrpg is simply a subcategory of MMO and the Massive and the Multiplayer stands for exactly the same thing in both. In neither one do they stand for "group". Most people use MMO as a short hand for MMOrpg, especially when they are on the forum for an MMOrpg.

 

Forgive me for making assumptions about your playstyle. I missed the sarcasm in your post. You sounded exactly like all of the group enthusiasts that belittle and marginalize solo players by misrepresenting what MMOrpgs are and were.

 

I disagree with you on solo activities "funneling" players into group content. I'm sure in some MMOs they do, but more typically they are side by side activities. Sure, group activities usually (not always) have better loot, but a lot of players are more interested in the story and atmosphere and couldn't care less about better gear. I am told even WoW is a fully enjoyable game for solo only players. I digress. Even if solo content is used to "funnel" players into endgame group content, that hardly makes it "merely a tutorial".

 

And your MMO history is off. The three cornerstones of MMOs were Ultima Online, Everquest and Asheron's Call. WoW came later and was derivative of those three. I happened to start playing MMOs with Asheron's Call back in 1999 and it was very solo friendly and I sure never felt "funneled" into group content. Socializing in town, participating in the auction hall, crafting and exploring have all been just as important in MMOrpgs as "group content".

And this game, solo content and all, is still a "real" MMOrpg by every definition ever set forth for the genre.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Perhaps more importantly, SWTOR is fundamentally a solo game, first and foremost. It's born from a single-player franchise, the primary selling point is a single-player story. I mean it's so fundamentally single-player that they didn't realize in the beginning how annoying it would be to have a group doing cutscenes, with some wanting to skip and some not. That was a result of taking a fundamentally solo game design and trying to make it something that accommodates groups.

 

Now if one were to say the things you're saying about a game like vanilla SWG, I don't know if I'd agree; vanilla SWG was fundamentally an interdependent experience. But SWTOR is not that kind of game and neither are most MMOs. Most are single-player games with some optional cooperative play. Or they have a fundamentally group-oriented feature or two, like GW2's old events system at the hearts.

 

I think that's all true, no matter how much some try to deny the single-player core of SWTOR. And the flashpoints could be soloed by an overleveled solo player, too. Even many of the things that were initially designed for more than one player like the Section X heroic have been adjusted to solo play, reflecting what the player base wants to do.

 

As a solo player I would never go near a game like SWG or Overwatch, because of exactly what you've said. But I began playing SWTOR because it was so solo-oriented, and I know others who got into the game for the same reason.

[QuinlanSaathis]

The only thing I miss about not being in a guild is the stream of chat in the channel.

[Suzsi]

I think that's all true, no matter how much some try to deny the single-player core of SWTOR. And the flashpoints could be soloed by an overleveled solo player, too. Even many of the things that were initially designed for more than one player like the Section X heroic have been adjusted to solo play, reflecting what the player base wants to do.

 

As a solo player I would never go near a game like SWG or Overwatch, because of exactly what you've said. But I began playing SWTOR because it was so solo-oriented, and I know others who got into the game for the same reason.

 

SWG was totally soloable. A completely different experience to most games. Vanilla swg all gear etc was craftable and while you needed this gear from crafters - you weren't required to have contact with them - thats what venders were for. So yeah everyone needed something off someone else in that game but it was all done through game mechanics. One of the least groupy games ever. It was more sandboxy.

 

Some group content was added in time but again everyrhing was tradable, sellable and craftable and npc.vendors did the selling.

[Rolodome]

SWG was totally soloable. A completely different experience to most games. Vanilla swg all gear etc was craftable and while you needed this gear from crafters - you weren't required to have contact with them - thats what venders were for. So yeah everyone needed something off someone else in that game but it was all done through game mechanics. One of the least groupy games ever. It was more sandboxy.

 

Some group content was added in time but again everyrhing was tradable, sellable and craftable and npc.vendors did the selling.

I guess technically you could get around interaction, but the systems involved going to other players in a variety ways. Things like battle fatigue healing, getting buffs from a doc. Yes, there were some people who macro'd these things and when vendors were a thing, you could go chase them down for items you wanted, but these were all systems maintained by other players and there was the natural social dynamic coming out of that, that made it way easier to navigate the game if you had good relationships with other people. In games like these, mostly all you need to do when you come into contact with others is stay silent, only speak when absolutely needed, and not be a colossal *****.

 

In a game like SWG, there was a clear benefit to being part of a community beyond just the "rewards" you get.

 

Also, I don't know what part of the game's life you're thinking of, but there was definitely content you couldn't solo if you were focusing on combat. Maybe when Jedi fever took over, it became more solo? But saying it was "one of the least groupy games ever" is rewriting history.

[Darevsool]

I guess technically you could get around interaction, but the systems involved going to other players in a variety ways. Things like battle fatigue healing, getting buffs from a doc. Yes, there were some people who macro'd these things and when vendors were a thing, you could go chase them down for items you wanted, but these were all systems maintained by other players and there was the natural social dynamic coming out of that, that made it way easier to navigate the game if you had good relationships with other people. In games like these, mostly all you need to do when you come into contact with others is stay silent, only speak when absolutely needed, and not be a colossal *****.

 

In a game like SWG, there was a clear benefit to being part of a community beyond just the "rewards" you get.

 

Also, I don't know what part of the game's life you're thinking of, but there was definitely content you couldn't solo if you were focusing on combat. Maybe when Jedi fever took over, it became more solo? But saying it was "one of the least groupy games ever" is rewriting history.

 

I played SWG from start to finish. There were a few things that you needed other players for, but only in the first few months did that NEED to be someone actually ATK.

You could heal battle fatigue from afk musicians/dancers running macros. You could heal black bars via afk medics. You NEEDED a Mayor, or someone on a player city's militia to give you zoning rights, but after that, you didn't need to talk to anyone to live in a player city.

SOME of the mobs were rough and needed a large group. Then the armor/weapons got better and the groups got smaller.

You did need crafters, and miners, but you could get what they sold via vendors.

 

Other people made SWG more fun, but you didn't NEED interaction with them for the majority of the game.

 

Kind of like this game.

[Phazonfreak]

Perhaps more importantly, SWTOR is fundamentally a solo game, first and foremost. It's born from a single-player franchise, the primary selling point is a single-player story. I mean it's so fundamentally single-player that they didn't realize in the beginning how annoying it would be to have a group doing cutscenes, with some wanting to skip and some not. That was a result of taking a fundamentally solo game design and trying to make it something that accommodates groups.

 

Now if one were to say the things you're saying about a game like vanilla SWG, I don't know if I'd agree; vanilla SWG was fundamentally an interdependent experience. But SWTOR is not that kind of game and neither are most MMOs. Most are single-player games with some optional cooperative play. Or they have a fundamentally group-oriented feature or two, like GW2's old events system at the hearts.

 

No, the primary selling point was/is that they took a beloved singleplayer story and tried to adapt it to a group oriented game, because they wanted to get a big slice out of the mmorpg cake even though the birthday party was already starting to settle down.

 

How can you call Swtor and the likes fundamentally solo games when the entire point is that they are run on online servers and the game mechanics are made to create a persistant world to interact with other players, which in turn is why EA and BioWare jumped on the mmorpg train to begin with and did not simply create Kotor 3.

It's pretty much the very essence of not being a solo game where the content and mechanics are only revolving around the actions of you, see Kotor 1 and 2. You just need to compare Kotor 1 and 2 with Swtor and play them all by yourself to realize how fundamentally not a solo game the latter is. Of course you CAN play Swtor like a solo game, but you will not experience all the content if you do so.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Phazonfreak

[IoNonSoEVero]

I'm really not sure how anyone can think SWTOR is designed for "persistent interaction." In this game:

 

You do not need other players to:

complete the class stories.

complete the planetary arcs.

complete any exploration missions.

complete any flashpoint associated with the main story.

complete any expac story arc other than Oricon and Iokath.

gear almost to BiS gear.

craft weapons, armor, crystals, dyes, augments, vehicles and other items

acquire crafting mats.

acquire most of the datacrons

do the solo space missions

acquire most of the optional companions

 

Literally the only places in this game you NEED to interact with other players are for things that are completely voluntary and can be skipped if one wishes.

 

get a few datacrons, which are optional

do a handful of heroics (the one on Makeb and arguably some on Ossus and Dantooine), which are completely optional

complete a few flashpoints, which are completely optional (and might be solable by a well geared player anyway)

complete optional group activities such as Ops, PvP and GSF, which are not necessary for game progression

complete the Oricon and Iokath story arcs, which are completely optional

acquire a few companions which never appear in the main story and are optional

get the 258 MH and OH weapons, which most players don't even need right now

 

Other than that, everything else in the game can be completed completely solo and anything that involves grouping or player interaction is optional. You can go through this entire game and complete every expac while ignoring every other player and only seeing them in open world/fleet areas.

Edited July 8, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero

[MikeCobalt]

I didn't know I was being pushed into "Grouping", really. I play *Exactly the same way, Stuff, times and whatever else now as I did when I started.. which is Solo.. still. I do Class Stories, Story Updates when they come, Heroics sometimes, the Flashpoints I like (usually the Longer more "Story/ Cutscene" oriented ones) mostly. Sometimes different events, that's it. I have been in the guilds from time to time but nearly all of those fizzled and died with the GC, one of the Larger Guilds has changed hands so much I dont know them anymore and as for Temp groups..... it seems there's always somebody that cant go along with the group so I just don't do those. I Play for the story, Solo. Edited July 8, 2019 by MikeCobalt

[Phazonfreak]

Literally the only places in this game you NEED to interact with other players are for things that are completely voluntary and can be skipped if one wishes.

 

In that regard everything in this game is voluntary. On the flip side you can level your character and gear him up by skipping the solo story content and only doing the group stuff. You will then experience content and get rewards that solo players won't. Which is coming back to the poster who resurrected this old thread complaining about exclusive group content. As you were saying, it is voluntary.

 

I am not saying that there probably are not quite a lot of players who are playing this game like a solo game and only sparsely interact with other players. But the way this game is set up from its very core defies the claim that it fundamentally is a solo game and everything can be done by yourself. Like I said, otherwise we would have gotten Kotor 3.

 

Case in point the next expansion, which is not just a solo story upgrade but will add a new flashpoint, operation, class abilities and an entire itemization overhaul that will affect group content and is of no consequence for the solo players.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Phazonfreak

[IoNonSoEVero]

In that regard everything in this game is voluntary. On the flip side you can level your character and gear him up by skipping the solo story content and only doing the group stuff. You will then experience content and get rewards that solo players won't. Which is coming back to the poster who resurrected this old thread complaining about exclusive group content. As you were saying, it is voluntary.

 

I am not saying that there probably are not quite a lot of players who are playing this game like a solo game and only sparsely interact with other players. But the way this game is set up from its very core defies the claim that it fundamentally is a solo game and everything can be done by yourself. Like I said, otherwise we would have gotten Kotor 3.

 

Case in point the next expansion, which is not just a solo story upgrade but will add a new flashpoint, operation, class abilities and an entire itemization overhaul that will affect group content and is of no consequence for the solo players.

 

Except that the list of things you can do solo, which is essentially playing the entire game from level 1-70, does show that you can play the entire thing yourself and it's set up as such. You can keep claiming this was set up primarily as a group game but there's nothing to indicate that.

 

A game that is focused around group play is one like Overwatch where it's absolutely unavoidable and is needed for progression and gearing. We don't have that here. In contrast you actually do need to do the solo story in order to get the ship and class companions, unless you want to pay for a Masters Datacron to bypass it.

 

There are very few rewards that are gained from group play that cannot be obtained in some way by solo players, and those, with the possible exception of the 258 weapons, are largely cosmetic and thus irrelevant. Not having the Wings of the Architect, for instance, means nothing because there are hundreds of other mounts available. Yeah, some of the mats drop in Ops, and I can buy them on the GTN.

 

The next expansion actually drives home the commitment to solo play. They changed their gearing tactic after their failed Ossus experiment (where they tried to force people into group play) and have specifically said players will be able to play their way, in ANY content, not grouping. Much in the same way you can now do conquest every week very easily without setting foot in group activities. There's a flashpoint, but that is not synonymous with grouping, since every story-based flashpoint, and EVERY flashpoint in general since SoR, has a solo mode. Class abilities and tacticals affect all players including those who play solo, and again, group play will not be necessary to get them. As for the Op, nothing is noted that would suggest it's anything other than an optional bit of content.

Edited July 8, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero

[Phazonfreak]

Except that the list of things you can do solo, which is essentially playing the entire game from level 1-70, does show that you can play the entire thing yourself and it's set up as such. You can keep claiming this was set up primarily as a group game but there's nothing to indicate that.

 

I refer you to the title of this very thread and the reason it got picked up again:

 

The push is there for sure , world bosses , operations on certain planets , if your not in a guild u miss out on gear , finding players is hard and lets not start on PVP random Que, and getting random players to stick around is even harder , grouping for flash points , better be ready for whining and crying from hardcore players and be ready to get the boot if you cant keep up ,random groups don't show mercy and sometimes guild members don't have that sympathy either , so the unless a SWTOR allow players to play they want and stop favoring only certain sigments of the game , you will not be able to reap the rewards no matter how long you been playing , cause you never co-op , and will be frustraded with the random que of waiting and the Whiners that feel they are above all

 

I also refer you to the very funny ongoing discussion in this particular thread about guild rewards, which has become some kind of a running gag now:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=965535

 

I could also go into detail about the different mechanics set up in this game that only function in interaction with other players like:

 

-earning social points for cosmetic gear,

-earning valor to enter ranked PvP which leads to...

-earning ranked PvP commendations to claim exclusive rewards

-trading FP/Op drops, cartel market items and crafted goods

etc.

 

It would be futile, because all of the different aspects of the game we list are optional and we apparently have a different concept of what constitutes a solo and a group-oriented game. Which ties in directly with your next point:

 

A game that is focused around group play is one like Overwatch where it's absolutely unavoidable and is needed for progression and gearing. We don't have that here. In contrast you actually do need to do the solo story in order to get the ship and class companions, unless you want to pay for a Masters Datacron to bypass it.

 

You said it, unavoidable. Overwatch is not a group-focused game, it is by design only a group game as it necessitates a team. It is also not an Mmorpg, but a "team-based multiplayer first-person shooter" according to Wikipedia. You cannot play the game at all just by yourself, unless you count the practice range as proper gameplay. I am not claiming that Swtor is like Overwatch.

 

There are very few rewards that are gained from group play that cannot be obtained in some way by solo players, and those, with the possible exception of the 258 weapons, are largely cosmetic and thus irrelevant. Not having the Wings of the Architect, for instance, means nothing because there are hundreds of other mounts available. Yeah, some of the mats drop in Ops, and I can buy them on the GTN.

 

And what is needed in order for you to check the GTN, find the desired item and buy it for yourself? Exactly, interaction with another player who bought, crafted or claimed it from the group content he was participating in. There is no solo mode economy...

 

The next expansion actually drives home the commitment to solo play. They changed their gearing tactic after their failed Ossus experiment (where they tried to force people into group play) and have specifically said players will be able to play their way, in ANY content, not grouping. Much in the same way you can now do conquest every week very easily without setting foot in group activities. There's a flashpoint, but that is not synonymous with grouping, since every story-based flashpoint, and EVERY flashpoint in general since SoR, has a solo mode. Class abilities and tacticals affect all players including those who play solo, and again, group play will not be necessary to get them. As for the Op, nothing is noted that would suggest it's anything other than an optional bit of content.

 

Indeed, as I have never said that BioWare is not commited to creating solo play. But that does not equate a fundamentally solo game.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Phazonfreak

[IoNonSoEVero]

 

-earning social points for cosmetic gear,

-earning valor to enter ranked PvP which leads to...

-earning ranked PvP commendations to claim exclusive rewards

-trading FP/Op drops, cartel market items and crafted goods

etc.

 

It would be futile, because all of the different aspects of the game we list are optional and we apparently have a different concept of what constitutes a solo and a group-oriented game. Which ties in directly with your next point

 

All of which are completely cosmetic and irrelevant to advancement in the game. Someone who isn't interested in socializing or PvP doesn't care in any way about valor or social points. The social armor can largely be found in other variations in the game or Cartel Market. "Exclusive rewards" are things to stroke people's egos and give them some cosmetic swag; and, one more time, aren't needed to progress in the game. You don't need to trade crafted goods, you can just learn to make them. As for flashpoint drops, you can play the flashpoint yourself, where your odds are just the same as in a group (actually better since you're not competing with anyone else for the drop).

 

You said it, unavoidable. Overwatch is not a group-focused game, it is by design only a group game as it necessitates a team. It is also not an Mmorpg, but a "team-based multiplayer first-person shooter" according to Wikipedia. You cannot play the game at all just by yourself, unless you count the practice range as proper gameplay. I am not claiming that Swtor is like Overwatch.

 

I don't need Overwatch explained to me with Wikipedia (LOL, who uses that as a real reference?) definitions, thanks. You are claiming that SWTOR is fundamentally a group game, which would mean that grouping is at its core. At its core would suggest unavoidable, and it's been explained to you in great detail that grouping in SWTOR is optional.

 

And what is needed in order for you to check the GTN, find the desired item and buy it for yourself? Exactly, interaction with another player who bought, crafted or claimed it from the group content he was participating in. There is no solo mode economy...

 

Which is not the same as grouping. There is a "solo mode economy" and it's called acquiring and making things yourself. I have a legacy hold full of CMTs and refined isotope stabilizers right now. I didn't set foot in a group or go on the GTN for them. I got them from crates or from the Eternal Championships, playing completely solo. I can make my own dyes, my own crystals, my own augment kits. I can go through Nathema as many times as it takes to get the schematics I want for augments and get other schematics from crates. No other players are required for any of that.

 

Indeed, as I have never said that BioWare is not commited to creating solo play. But that does not equate a fundamentally solo game.

 

Nothing in SWTOR equates to a fundamentally group-oriented game, no matter how many times you say it. In a group-oriented game you would not be able to completely skip any and all group content and still gear and progress normally - and you can in SWTOR. You don't have to agree, but it doesn't change how the game is actually structured. And it's absolutely why players push back when they feel that Bioware is trying to push them into one playstyle over another, and rightly so.

Edited July 8, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero

[KoriVash]

Grouping typically isn't bad at all.

 

Is something I hear a lot of group players say. But yes really is that bad. I used to group a lot when first started playing this game. NEVER AGAIN. I do resent BW putting rewards behind group events. They know full well some of us are solo players. So no BW don't treat players equal. Which is also why the Isotope was removed from the Jawa's. A two fingers to solo players and crafters.

 

From a group point of view this item should be a reward not a roll chance item.

 

6.0 = Play your way, well guess we will see, but bet craft items are still behind group activity.

[DarkTergon]

Which is also why the Isotope was removed from the Jawa's. .

 

exotic isotope stabilizer are still on sale with the jawa, I've never seen the Refined Isotope Stabilizer on sale there.