How are solo players finding the push to group?

[madarsrikards]

ILiterally the only places in this game you NEED to interact with other players are for things that are completely voluntary and can be skipped if one wishes.

 

get a few datacrons, which are optional

Ackchyually,

You can get all but 2 datacrons solo. Balmorra warehouse and that other one where you need to be airlifted to a pipe.

-t player who got almost all datacrons solo

Edited July 8, 2019 by madarsrikards

[KoriVash]

exotic isotope stabilizer are still on sale with the jawa, I've never seen the Refined Isotope Stabilizer on sale there.

 

Wrong it was, I used almost all of my blue scrap metal buying them It was removed by BW at the request of group players.

[DarkTergon]

Wrong it was, I used almost all of my blue scrap metal buying them It was removed by BW at the request of group players.

 

read that again, I never said it wasn't, just said I never saw it. If I had, I've tons of scrap metal, and would have used it.

[Rolodome]

No, the primary selling point was/is that they took a beloved singleplayer story and tried to adapt it to a group oriented game, because they wanted to get a big slice out of the mmorpg cake even though the birthday party was already starting to settle down.

 

How can you call Swtor and the likes fundamentally solo games when the entire point is that they are run on online servers and the game mechanics are made to create a persistant world to interact with other players, which in turn is why EA and BioWare jumped on the mmorpg train to begin with and did not simply create Kotor 3.

It's pretty much the very essence of not being a solo game where the content and mechanics are only revolving around the actions of you, see Kotor 1 and 2. You just need to compare Kotor 1 and 2 with Swtor and play them all by yourself to realize how fundamentally not a solo game the latter is. Of course you CAN play Swtor like a solo game, but you will not experience all the content if you do so.

I don't know if I'm going to communicate properly how I see this, but I'll give it a shot.

 

For the sake of my obsession with analogies, just bear with me here... KOTOR is a plane (a single-player game). SWTOR looks at the plane and says, "How can we take this plane and turn it into an everyday car (an MMORPG)." So they clip off the wings, make it much smaller and more compact, give it four wheels. But underneath it's still a plane. It was manufactured originally as a plane. It was made from plane schematics. They made enough changes to make it usable as an everyday car, but it was never designed that way from the ground up. What you end up with is a sort of plane-car hybrid that can no longer fly and isn't that great as a car either.

 

It's a fascinating plane-car hybrid that provides some experiences you'd never get anywhere else (who else is going to make a car out of a plane?). But to plainly call it a car would be misleading. They didn't scrap the plane and start with car schematics. They started from a plane and turned it into a car.

[KoriVash]

read that again, I never said it wasn't, just said I never saw it. If I had, I've tons of scrap metal, and would have used it.

 

OK fair enough, though was there for some time. As per normal BW never said it was been removed or why. At the time though there was complaints that players did not have to "work for it" and it was ruining the economy.

 

Oddly solo players did not have an issue at all with it being sold by the jawas.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

You know this game was a MMO from the beginning, but it also offered solo play. I am not sure why solo people feel threatened by the fact that this is also a social game. They tried to focus on just solo players, that was KOTFE and KOTET, and how did that pan out? You guessed it, they lost money. Lost a ton of subs, and their servers were cut in half.

 

Now they are focusing on group play, then they will focus on more story. I love KOTOR as much as the next guy, but that still doesn't refute the fact that this game was marketed, from the beginning, as a MMO.

 

This game needs both endgame & PVP (social players), and Story (solo players) to stay around, solo people just need to accept that. You just got what, over a year of strictly solo development. Not sure why you can't just enjoy the game as you like to play it, and be gracious enough to accept that it also is meant to appeal to others as well.

[Rolodome]

You know this game was a MMO from the beginning, but it also offered solo play. I am not sure why solo people feel threatened by the fact that this is also a social game. They tried to focus on just solo players, that was KOTFE and KOTET, and how did that pan out? You guessed it, they lost money. Lost a ton of subs, and their servers were cut in half.

 

Now they are focusing on group play, then they will focus on more story. I love KOTOR as much as the next guy, but that still doesn't refute the fact that this game was marketed, from the beginning, as a MMO.

 

This game needs both endgame & PVP (social players), and Story (solo players) to stay around, solo people just need to accept that. You just got what, over a year of strictly solo development. Not sure why you can't just enjoy the game as you like to play it, and be gracious enough to accept that it also is meant to appeal to others as well.

I can't speak for anybody else, but when I talk about it being a fundamentally solo game, I'm not trying to argue that solo players should be catered to over anyone else; in fact, I'd generally rather that single-player games stay single-player and multi-player games stay multi-player, if for no other reason than that mixing the two generally seems to result in a diluted experience on both ends (I'd have taken a KOTOR 3 single-player over this MMO any day of the week and twice on sundays). In my case, it's more a pedantic point about the underlying design and a defense of solo players as being warranted in having a place in this game (as opposed to the way some argue, that they are unwelcome guests who are being tolerated).

 

In an ideal world, I'd like that no matter what you play the game for, you get loads of fun stuff to engage with on a regular basis.

[TrixxieTriss]

Ackchyually,

You can get all but 2 datacrons solo. Balmorra warehouse and that other one where you need to be airlifted to a pipe.

-t player who got almost all datacrons solo

 

You can get the balmorra one solo. The only ones I know that can’t be got solo are the fleet ones.

[ImputantRage]

The only reason that I don't group often is that it's hard enough to actually find groups!!

[TrixxieTriss]

Anyone who played this game from launch would realise the game was an MMO and not solo based.

The game was so much harder earlier on and “encouraged” you to play with other people.

Most people couldn’t do heroic 2 man by themselves and 4 man heroics were basically impossible.

 

Could you play the story stuff solo? Mostly, but only if you stayed on top of your gearing and also you companions gearing.

You also had to stay within a lvl bracket to progress because pushing too far made it impossible to play by yourself.

So that often required you do side planet quests, flash points (which were mostly impossible to do solo at the right lvl) or group up with a friend to quest together to make it easier and I dare say more fun. (Which is what an MMO is about)

 

All this discussion about swtor being a solo game at launch is absolutely nonsense and lies. It was never a solo game, it was an MMO that developed and changed into a solo game during Revan and progressed to become more of a solo game through Kotet.

This drove off a large portion of MMO players and attracted more solo players. But there wasn’t enough balance and the solo players couldn’t replace the MMO players leaving.

Then Bioware realised they couldn’t make enough solo story content fast enough to satisfy the solo players because all the solo players started to complain and bail on the game till new content came out. Which was an unsustainable model with Bioware reducing resources for swtor.

The answer to Bioware’s problem was to start making more MMO content because that content is replayable while they make new story.

 

The problems with this game have constantly seesawed backwards and forwards because Bioware haven’t created enough balance. They go from MMO to solo to MMO and keep isolating different parts of the player base..

 

For better or worse, the game is now an MMO with a strong solo content and following. But it was not always like that and it was not designed or released like that. Swtor was an MMO first and foremost. All this talk of it being a solo game from launch or mainly a solo game with MMO aspects is a lie and false information.

[TrixxieTriss]

The only reason that I don't group often is that it's hard enough to actually find groups!!

 

It is now because the game’s population and demographic has changed. During the early years there was obviously enough people around who were MMO players and wanted to group up.

Now there are way less people playing and that leads to less MMO people playing because of Bioware not balancing the game.

If it wasn’t for group finder or the dumbing down of much of the group play stuff in the game, it wouldn’t get played anymore and the game would probably have died.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I can't speak for anybody else, but when I talk about it being a fundamentally solo game, I'm not trying to argue that solo players should be catered to over anyone else; in fact, I'd generally rather that single-player games stay single-player and multi-player games stay multi-player, if for no other reason than that mixing the two generally seems to result in a diluted experience on both ends (I'd have taken a KOTOR 3 single-player over this MMO any day of the week and twice on sundays). In my case, it's more a pedantic point about the underlying design and a defense of solo players as being warranted in having a place in this game (as opposed to the way some argue, that they are unwelcome guests who are being tolerated).

 

In an ideal world, I'd like that no matter what you play the game for, you get loads of fun stuff to engage with on a regular basis.

 

Same here. When I discuss it it's simply to refute the aggressively pro-group contingent who seem to think it's fair to marginalize and denigrate solo players by telling them "MMO MEANS GROOOOOUPPPP!" or suggesting that content that is solo-friendly should be a side thing. This game has always had a solo contingent, it's always been very heavy on solo content and solo and story players should not be treated as 'unwanted guests.'

 

I personally despise grouping of any kind and can't fathom for even a second why anyone considers it fun in any way - but I also recognize that we all have our own perspectives and that it obviously is something others enjoy a lot. Even if I don't get it, it's still valid for others. I wish people who group would understand the same about solo players instead of trying to constantly drive them from the game or denigrate their playstyle.

 

Do I want the Ops and PvP people to be happy and get content they enjoy? Sure, I just don't want to be forced to play it or have it as the only viable option to move forward in the game or gear, and I want solo/story content to have focus too. As said before, as long as there's a viable choice (ie, the SoR Op vs. dailies) that accommodates both solo and group players without marginalizing them, it's all good.

Edited July 9, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero

[kezzin]

You know this game was a MMO from the beginning, but it also offered solo play. I am not sure why solo people feel threatened by the fact that this is also a social game. They tried to focus on just solo players, that was KOTFE and KOTET, and how did that pan out? You guessed it, they lost money. Lost a ton of subs, and their servers were cut in half.

 

Now they are focusing on group play, then they will focus on more story. I love KOTOR as much as the next guy, but that still doesn't refute the fact that this game was marketed, from the beginning, as a MMO.

 

This game needs both endgame & PVP (social players), and Story (solo players) to stay around, solo people just need to accept that. You just got what, over a year of strictly solo development. Not sure why you can't just enjoy the game as you like to play it, and be gracious enough to accept that it also is meant to appeal to others as well.

 

I agree they need both. However, I think they "lost money and had their servers cut in half" because KOTFE and KOTET weren't very good. Not because they were solo content.

[TrixxieTriss]

I agree they need both. However, I think they "lost money and had their servers cut in half" because KOTFE and KOTET weren't very good. Not because they were solo content.

 

The reason kotfe and Kotet were a problem for group orientated players is it marginalised them to “only playing solo” or go off and play stale (old) group content like flash points or Operations. This went on for a few years and drove people away.

 

Group doesn’t just mean flash points, Operations, pvp or heroics. Group also means being able to group with a friend(s) and run story content together and complete it together (at the same time).

Unfortunately, both those expansions removed that casual group option to just hang out with a friend and do stuff together.

This was a big problem for people who used to meet up and hang together to socialise. They were forced to go off and do their own thing by themselves or run the same content multiple times for each person (which is boring).

So the whole socialising aspect was reduced and people stopped playing to go to other games they could play together.

 

Bioware’s mistake was going too far one way and not thinking about those people who used the game as a social experience.

They should have allowed and included a mechanism for people to group and do the chapters together and complete them at the same time.

It’s my opinion that is why so many people left the game during that period of time.

I’d go as far as saying the majority of players before those expansions were casual players who played a bit of everything. But the main thing they did was hang out with a friend or friends.

Edited July 9, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[JediQuaker]

I'm used to playing with my brain switched all the way on; ....Doing stuff with a decent group means I can fudge the rotations a lot more

Due to certain legalities in Canada, I'm used to playing with my brain at least partially switched off - most of the time, even Master Mode FPs**.

I never find I have to worry about things enough to be too concerned about using precisely the right skill***, and never worry about a proper rotation****.

 

** I used to only due Veteran FPs because I assumed MM would require some "attention", but I've since discovered I was wrong. The main body of most MM FPs seems to be basically like VMs, it's just the bosses are a bit harder, but in most cases (except maybe Chiss and Nathema) any mediocre or better healer seems to be enough (with a mediocre+ tank and DPS)

 

*** Of course, I also don't worry about dying or party wipes either. It's just a game. (I think I play well enough that most people, except the hard-core group-nazis, never notice, or care either. )

 

**** Unless, by accident I am using the "proper" rotation. Proper rotations are really only of concern in OPs and PvP IMHO. If you are concerned about your rotation in a Veteran FP, you need to relax.

 

Disclaimer - please note I certainly do appreciate the ease and enjoy the experience of a MM FP with good players. I might even try to get back into OPs. Also note that it does help to be level 70 with 252 equipment.

[pellejedi]

Hi, I'm mostly a solo player. I've never done OPS or group FPs. I do warzones because it's fun and I group up to farm on Ossus. What am I truly missing out by not fully engaging in OPS and higher difficulty FPs? So far it all seems pretty fine to me the way it is.

[KaraPeters]

I was in a guild on Star Forge, but when I left the game and came back, I didn't want to deal with social aspect as much. Had some real life stuff going on as the mom of an autistic kiddo, so I decided to go to my old characters on Darth Malgus and do my own thing. Anyway, I also spend time in other games like Darkest Dungeon and Steamworld Quest, so it's good to be able to pop in and out whenever.

I'm glad that other players can be social if they want, and I don't begrudge anyone a meaty amount of group content, but other than occasionally accepting a group invite so that everyone can get a heroic boss without fighting, I've enjoyed being able to play when I want and not feel pressure to do anything. Story, chapters, and dailies are plenty for me. Seems like there's something for everyone, so I have zero complaints.

Edited July 9, 2019 by KaraPeters

[Damask_Rose]

Bioware’s mistake was going too far one way and not thinking about those people who used the game as a social experience.

They should have allowed and included a mechanism for people to group and do the chapters together and complete them at the same time.

 

The problem with FE/ET was worse than that. While they focused too heavily on the solo story and neglected raiding, they simultaneously drastically changed the way they told that solo story which didn't sit well with a significant chunk of their target audience. They managed to spend a whole lot of time and effort making content that didn't give anyone what they wanted while pushing a whole lot of people away. Now they are flailing around trying to patch things up without really understanding where they went wrong in the first place.

[IoNonSoEVero]

KOTFE/KOTET might have also been better if they hadn't listened to the people screaming the loudest and cut what they had down so much. If we'd had the original three seasons with sixteen chapters each there might have been room for improvement, but instead they sliced and diced and spent the past two years giving people subpar content in all respects.

 

Considering how often one hears on this board that group finder players will immediately drop out if any of the traitor flashpoints come up, and considering how they tried to twist people's arms into playing NiM GftM with the Ossus gearing, I'm guessing group-oriented players haven't enjoyed the results of that slice-and-dice very much either.

[devilkat]

KOTFE/KOTET might have also been better if they hadn't listened to the people screaming the loudest and cut what they had down so much. If we'd had the original three seasons with sixteen chapters each there might have been room for improvement, but instead they sliced and diced and spent the past two years giving people subpar content in all respects.

 

Considering how often one hears on this board that group finder players will immediately drop out if any of the traitor flashpoints come up, and considering how they tried to twist people's arms into playing NiM GftM with the Ossus gearing, I'm guessing group-oriented players haven't enjoyed the results of that slice-and-dice very much either.

 

Agreed. They should have just stuck to their original plan, released all of the chapters, and made some group areas for fps and ops on Zakul. There was plenty of space and plenty of lore to work with. They got lazy and paid the price. I would still love to see that content, even if I had to buy it off the cartel market.

 

As far as grouping goes, I do most stuff inside my guild until I'm comfortable with the mechanics. Now I can do MM fps in a pug, but I don't do OPS outside of the guild. I love that the experienced raiders in my guild don't mind explaining mechanics to those who are new. They do an awesome job and don't make you feel bad if you screw up (which I've done). Find a good guild and it's a lot less intimidating to do the group content.

[Rolodome]

Due to certain legalities in Canada, I'm used to playing with my brain at least partially switched off - most of the time, even Master Mode FPs**.

I never find I have to worry about things enough to be too concerned about using precisely the right skill***, and never worry about a proper rotation****.

 

** I used to only due Veteran FPs because I assumed MM would require some "attention", but I've since discovered I was wrong. The main body of most MM FPs seems to be basically like VMs, it's just the bosses are a bit harder, but in most cases (except maybe Chiss and Nathema) any mediocre or better healer seems to be enough (with a mediocre+ tank and DPS)

 

*** Of course, I also don't worry about dying or party wipes either. It's just a game. (I think I play well enough that most people, except the hard-core group-nazis, never notice, or care either. )

 

**** Unless, by accident I am using the "proper" rotation. Proper rotations are really only of concern in OPs and PvP IMHO. If you are concerned about your rotation in a Veteran FP, you need to relax.

 

Disclaimer - please note I certainly do appreciate the ease and enjoy the experience of a MM FP with good players. I might even try to get back into OPs. Also note that it does help to be level 70 with 252 equipment.

Took me a moment to get that first line.