An Honest Question about GC/CXP/RNG

[Nmyownworld]

CXP/GC is a great way to get additional gear and also as a way for solo players to get end-game gear as well...but it shouldn't be the primary way of gearing for anyone...and it is for everyone right now.

^This sums up my thoughts about the gearing aspect of the GC system.

 

My thoughts about GC/CXP/RNG:

 

My perspective: Primarily solo player. Did group content for a couple of years, and got burnt out on grouping. I enjoy replaying class stories and exploring, so there's still interesting things in game for me. With solo or group play I don't view one as being better or worse than the other. I think the game is not at a point where it can tell solo nor group players to kiss off. Subbing is subbing. Since KotFE content has been more solo-centric. I think group-centric (and PvP) content getting some love is good. Alternating which play style gets new content. But, I digress.

 

Galactic Command interface -- My feelings: mixed

The idea of having an interface to access various parts of the game from anywhere is a good one. As someone who mainly uses it for Planetary and Flashpoints, the execution is sorely lacking. Spending 5+ minutes clicking the GC and declining unwanted destinations/missions/flashpoints, gets old, fast.

 

CXP -- My feelings: mixed

There are different aspects of CXP. The rewards -- command crates, tokens, CRs, and earning CXP. As a way to gate access to higher rated equipment -- Tier 2, Tier 3, etc. -- without continually adding more levels beyond 70, I think CRs are a good idea. An RNG gearing system is a profoundly bad idea that never should have made it to live. "Thrill of the hunt." I've edited out a variety of profanity to describe this concept. I'll settle for ridiculous, although "ridiculous" is an understatement.

 

Earning CXP: The gain rate is getting better, but needs improvement (daily bug aside). For some players, the gaining of CXP falls in to two camps. "CR 300. That'll never happen." -- alto-holics, those with minimal game play time (again, not criticizing any favored play style -- subbing is subbing). "CR 300. Griiind what gives the most CXP." -- all those inquiries about what gives the most CXP in the least amount of time.

 

CXP rewards, part 2 -- Command Crates: My feelings mixed leaning towards dislike.

As a primarily solo player, I like the Command Crates. A chance to get better than 230 set bonus gear, and various goodies. I think non-solo players (group content, PvP, GSF) need a linear, reasonably obtainable, gearing path. Without gear grants from the RNG gods ever being an integral part of gearing up. Command crates should only be goody boxes, with the gear grants from them being best suited for solo-centric players.

 

RNG Gear grants -- My feelings: despise it

Out of my 41 characters on NA servers at level 70 (10 more < level 70), two hit CR 300 (thanks daily bug!). One, a SW, never received set bonus cuffs from a command crate until Tier 4. I could buy 230 cuffs, and as solo player that was fine. However, I can see how that would be endlessly frustrating for players who need/want/need better gear for their preferred play style. RNG gearing is not fun; it's frustrating.

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Nmyownworld

[DanNV]

I guess everyone unhappy with GC should just unsub, that would solve our problem.

 

No GC for prefs, maybe BW is inviting us to save our money and we're not getting their point.

 

Actually, it looks like many of us have already left and more are slowly moving on.

[Eloi_BG]

Lots of GC/CXP/RNG haters left. Others (like me) are still around but realized screaming against it has no point, cause it doesn't look like it's going anywhere.

 

Asking for more CXP/hour seems kinda efficient tho, so that's what people do.

 

I'd like the old 2.0 comms system back. You could do various difficulty of ops to get top PVE gear. You could do dailies/HM FPs to get close to top PVE gear (black hole comms were great... my bad that was 1.0, but you get what I mean). You could do SM FPs and other dailies to get decent PVE gear. PVP gear was separated (even tho I appreciate not having to carry around different sets of gear for PVE and PVP, I understand the need to separate them). Also I almost forgot... there was NO RNG! That was so great.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Eloi_BG

[Jdast]

First off, kudos to the OP, Solar, for framing the issue in a respectful way. I think it has gone a long way to this being one of the better (if not best) discussions on the topic. But, I wouldn't be Dasty the Hutt if I didn't stir the pot a bit.

 

The vast majority of the criticisms I have read about the gearing system (including in this thread) have either: a) been corrected; or b) will be corrected on November 28th -- assuming they don't screw up the conversion rate of unwanted crate gear to legacy-wide UCs. And, that's a big if. Also, they clearly have to do something about the UC limit now that it is legacy-wide. Personally, for the latter point, I give them a 30% chance of getting it right (see, I'm trying to tick everyone off, even Bioware).

 

Look, we can all look to the past screw-ups, but post-Nov. 28th, the new gearing system with respect to GC is fundamentally changed. Put bluntly, RNG and GC Rank are no longer issues (or significantly reduced). And, more importantly, your alts can benefit your main. Hear me out.

 

One can call the entire GC system, including post-Nov. 28th, convoluted and annoying (it is) with an 'unnecessary middle-man' but every piece of gear becomes an item that can be converted into currency that is legacy-wide. That has some pretty profound implications:

 

1) you can gear out a freshly minted 70 out in EVEN LEFT SIDE gear without crafting / buying on GTN if you have enough UC's saved up. Since UCs are legacy-wide and you can purchase the Tier 1 gear, you will also be able to level up the set bonus armor slot. Put differently, Command Rank doesn't really matter.

 

2) Your alts can now help your main, which is pretty rare in the MMORPG world as far as I know it (WoW, Rift, LotRO, ESO). Say you spend a tedious night chewing glass on your Juggernaut Tank in a NiM Op -- when done you just want to slaughter stuff on your Gunslinger (assuming 70). Any crap you get in a crate you can disintegrate into UCs, which -- in turn -- you can use to fill out your BiS gear for your tank. Given lockouts, this is pretty cool.

 

TL-DR: There is a stigma attached to the Galactic Command Crate System, which is understandable given its horrific implementation pre-November 28th.

 

That is the good news. The bad news is I assume the conversion rate of disintegrated gear to legacy-wide UCs will be terrible.

 

Now that I've ticked everyone off (including Bioware who will screw up the conversion rate),

 

Hugs and G'night,

 

Dasty

 

P.S. This post addressed only the broader gearing system, not the CXP rate gain. I have already made clear that those need tweaking. Bioware said they will do just that. I give them a 30% of getting that right.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Jdast

[Totemdancer]

I see a lot of posts expressing dissatisfaction with the non "bugged" amount of CXP dailies now yield for completion.

 

Here is my question.

 

Are people happy with at least the concept of GC/CXP/RNG and are now mostly upset with its current implementation?

 

While I have seen some posts in the arguing/asking for its removal, I see more posts where people want more CXP awarded from doing activities and quests.

 

Has the "remove GC/CXP/RNG" crowd dispersed, gone silent, or just left the forums?

 

This is an honest question.

Do many of you see the GC/CXP/RNG as superior to a traditional commendations system that we had in 1.- 4.x?

 

If you do, that's fine. I am just curious if people now like the GC/CXP/RNG system and would like to know why they feel that way. Or, do people still loathe the GC/CXP/RNG system?

 

Believe it or not, I'm not looking to pick a fight. I am just really curious to see how people feel now and what their reasons are.

 

I’m still mad at the whole concept and would like it removed.

 

Has it been softened from the original concept, yes.

 

Has it been softened enough, no.

 

Unless it is significantly softened more or removed, I will continue to hate the system.

[Batwer]

The people asking for more CXP are simply in apathy.

 

We all want the nightmare to end.

It is exactly like that.

[olagatonjedi]

I see a lot of posts expressing dissatisfaction with the non "bugged" amount of CXP dailies now yield for completion.

 

Here is my question.

 

Are people happy with at least the concept of GC/CXP/RNG and are now mostly upset with its current implementation?

 

While I have seen some posts in the arguing/asking for its removal, I see more posts where people want more CXP awarded from doing activities and quests.

 

Has the "remove GC/CXP/RNG" crowd dispersed, gone silent, or just left the forums?

 

This is an honest question.

Do many of you see the GC/CXP/RNG as superior to a traditional commendations system that we had in 1.- 4.x?

 

If you do, that's fine. I am just curious if people now like the GC/CXP/RNG system and would like to know why they feel that way. Or, do people still loathe the GC/CXP/RNG system?

 

Believe it or not, I'm not looking to pick a fight. I am just really curious to see how people feel now and what their reasons are.

Comparing the GC/CXP/CR as a secondary gearing system to the primary gwaring systems of 1.-4.x is a lost comparison. You are trying to compare apples to wrenches.

[Jdast]

Comparing the GC/CXP/CR as a secondary gearing system to the primary gwaring systems of 1.-4.x is a lost comparison. You are trying to compare apples to wrenches.

 

Olag can be a bit acerbic and biting at times, but he does have a point. More importantly, let's assume for the sake of argument that every criticism in this thread is correct. At risk of tooting my previous post...In the grand scheme of things...

 

Dasty

Edited October 13, 2017 by Jdast

[Rabenschwinge]

I can’t speak for others but I loathe the GC/CXP/RNG system and always will. Because of the system people are playing that instead of the game. Its all about how to maximize CXP gain and not about enjoying each part of the game. Its why when they change how much CXP things get people either abondon it, or flock to it. The game is now about beating the GC system not about playing the actual game.

 

That may be so, but without the CXP system the game would already be dead: Bioware has the continuous problem that they cannot produce actual content at the rate at which the players are consuming it. So they are dealing with an optimization problem: Keep as many players as possible playing while introducing as little changes as possible using only limited resources.

 

Many players loathe the command system, but if level 70 had been introduced with a system that would allow players to acquire bis gear within a week or two, they wouldn't be playing any more in the first place. Because there isn't anything interesting to do that they haven't done a dozen times over and they already have the best gear there is for a year and since then their characters haven't made any slight hint of progress. The most important incentive to drive players to play is the desire to improve their own character. If you just let them have the best possible character, they won't be playing.

 

Thus, I don't think that EA or Bioware made a mistake when they introduced the command system, nor do I think that adjustments to the command system are made because Bioware changed its mind. When it was first introduced it seemed like an eternal grind. But players beared with it in many cases, they hated it, and many quit because of it. But the same players that quit because of it, are likely the same that would have quit anyway if they already had the best gear and couldn't further improve because of that: The actual problem was not the command system, but the lack of new content. Many others grudgingly accepted it.

 

As frustration grows, the system is adjusted to give players a little boon. "Here, take this, it's not all that bad." That's part of the optimization problem. I fully expect the designers who developed the system to have anticipated that such changes would be necessary in regular intervals.

 

From Bioware's and EA's point of view the command system works perfectly. People may complain about it, but that's better than have them thinking about the actual game content. The system isn't designed to be fun playing. It is designed to play their players.

 

By now they reached a point where I wouldn't be surprised if they actually did replace the system with something else. Too many players are in 248 gear already and it has become too easy to get a full set of gear. Thus, the time has come to say: "We heard all your complaints, and know what ..." (now that you're through the grind anyway) " we give in to your demand and replace the system by something more fair!" (which will require an entirely new grind, of course, because now there are rating 250 green world drops and anyone in 248swill look like a sad joke from the past)

Edited October 13, 2017 by Rabenschwinge

[antonmb]

I like the new system now. I will particularly like the system after 5.6 goes live on November 28th when disintegrated items convert into legacy-wide UCs. I can't think of any other game that gives you BiS items by not doing the same high-end raid over and over again, usually with a lockout and several weeks of chewing glass. With the system in place now, I can solo, group, etc. and still know I'm advancing not just my character -- but my alts as well.

 

Agreed. I did not think I would enjoy it, but I do now -- even post dailies bug. I find myself doing more varied content than 4.X to maximize gains. FPs, Master Uprisings, Heroics, Conquest, PVP, etc.

 

Looking forward to 5.6 where I can open more boxes.

[Sargrith]

The other issue is of course you aren’t hearing from those who left because of GC. We aren’t getting server mergers because GC brought in new players but rather because it drove many away. We didn’t get a new lead producer either because GC was well recieved. The damage caused by GC combined with lack of content really has rocked this game and put it on its last legs. With only 5 servers soon we can’t get any smaller without them closing it down. And while content or rather lack there of is certainly part of why we are here based on the outcry against GC before the mass exodus has to be part as well. Again not speaking for other rather asking if you left over GC would you really even give the game a second look as long as it remains, no matter how tweeked it appears?

 

To those claiming it will improve late November.....they also claimed we would get a bonus to cxp per character with 300 cmd levels.....so maybe these improvements will be real or maybe just another miscommunication, wont know till they come.

[Eli_Porter]

We don't need any more gearing system overhauls, GC is solid enough right now. What we need is content.

[SolarSaenz]

Also I almost forgot... there was NO RNG! That was so great.

 

Umm actually, in the early, early days of 1.x (I think before 1.3), there was gearing via RNG in the form of champion bags. Champion bags were not all that different from the command crates of today. they dropped a PVP gear piece, and you had to just hope and pray it was a piece of gear you needed/wanted.

 

It makes me wonder though. They got rid of that RNG system pretty quickly (relatively speaking) and started using a traditional commendations/crystals system like for PVE gearing. So, in the game's history, a gearing via RNG failed and was removed from the game. So, why 4-5 years later, would the same game bring back an even bigger gearing via RNG system?

What's the definition of insanity again?

[SolarSaenz]

....From Bioware's and EA's point of view the command system works perfectly. People may complain about it, but that's better than have them thinking about the actual game content. The system isn't designed to be fun playing. It is designed to play their players......

 

If that truly is the thinking/mind set/philosophy if BW/EA, then they don't understand the purpose of a game.

A game is supposed to be fun.

That idea alone (a game is supposed to be fun) is a given. You learn that like at pre school age.

A game isn't supposed to feel like a second job. And, sadly, there are people who have commented that grinding to CR 300 feels like a second job, especially earlier this year when there weren't so many CXP buffs.

 

But, oh, well. I guess some fundamental laws in the universe got changed, and now games are supposed to NOT be fun.

[ScottishDrunk]

If you choose to repeat content you find boring, that's on you.

 

 

thats the thing tho.

 

there's been virtually no new content. people have been repeating the same stuff for years because there's nothing new.

fatigue kicks in

 

1 flash point and 2 ops bosses in a year isn't content

Edited October 13, 2017 by ScottishDrunk

[revjasonlee]

Half the people left the game over GC and wont be replying to this. That should be enough for you. But even of the people still here I would estimate 90% of people don't like the current system.

 

If I was in charge I would double the CXP rewards for everything and make the GC level legacy wide. 300 levels per toon is totally stupid and it is only AFTER reaching level 300 that you can START to get your BiS gear.

[Jdast]

thats the thing tho.

 

there's been virtually no new content. people have been repeating the same stuff for years because there's nothing new.

fatigue kicks in

 

1 flash point and 2 ops bosses in a year isn't content

 

Completely agree. Frankly, I think the lack of MMO content had as much if not more to do with the decline in numbers than the gearing system. Regardless, it doesn't matter in that the end result was the same -- declining population.

 

I got a couple people to join, but even they have intimated that 1 new FP and 2 new bosses won't keep them interested for very long.

 

Put differently, the new gearing system is a necessary but not sufficient condition to sustain the health of the game. Absent new and interesting content -- yeah, the game (like any other) is toast.

 

Dasty

 

P.S. On a completely different note, thank you for igniting the perennial war I have with my partner (who is a Scot). I told him I was replying to someone named, "Scottishdrunk," to which he quipped: "Well, you can change your name to 'Irishdrunk' but that would be a bit redundant." I then reminded him that Haggis is quite possibly the most disgusting thing on the planet, which led to him barking about Ireland remaining neutral in WWII...I could go on but need to add some Bailey's to my cereal (we currently are in Western USA so it is morning).

Edited October 13, 2017 by Jdast

[TUXs]

thats the thing tho.

 

there's been virtually no new content. people have been repeating the same stuff for years because there's nothing new.

fatigue kicks in

 

1 flash point and 2 ops bosses in a year isn't content

Agreed...add the tremendous nerfs on from this year and not only is the content old and lacking, it's become harder and harder to complete.

[Jdast]

Half the people left the game over GC and wont be replying to this. That should be enough for you. But even of the people still here I would estimate 90% of people don't like the current system.

 

If I was in charge I would double the CXP rewards for everything and make the GC level legacy wide. 300 levels per toon is totally stupid and it is only AFTER reaching level 300 that you can START to get your BiS gear.

 

At risk of sounding like a broken record and White Knighting:

 

1) they are adjusting the CXP rates (how much TBD);

2) GC level is irrelevant after Nov. 28th when UCs become legacy-wide (though conversion rate also remains TBD)

 

Put bluntly, your last sentence about getting BiS gear once you reach GC level 300 after November 28th is quite simply and patently false. Depending on how many UCs you can now hold legacy-wide, you can deck out a GC level 1 who just turned 70 in complete BiS gear.

 

TL-DR: EVERY, and I mean EVERY complaint about the gearing system I have read in this thread disappears on November 28th -- assuming they don't screw up the conversion rate -- and while that is a big if, harping on the gearing system from January 2017 seems somewhat pointless.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Jdast

[TUXs]

At risk of sounding like a broken record and White Knighting:

 

1) they are adjusting the CXP rates (how much TBD);

2) GC level is irrelevant after Nov. 28th when UCs become legacy-wide (though conversion rate also remains TBD)

 

Put bluntly, your last sentence about getting BiS gear once you reach GC level 300 after November 28th is quite simply and patently false. Depending on how many UCs you can now hold legacy-wide, you can deck out a GC level 1 who just turned 70 in complete BiS gear.

 

TL-DR: EVERY, and I mean EVERY complaint about the gearing system I have read in this thread disappears on November 28th -- assuming they don't screw up the conversion rate -- and while that is a big if, harping on the gearing system from January 2017 seems somewhat pointless.

I like your optimism...I just don't share it right now. It's clear that even Keith wants GC gearing to take as long as it possibly can. Gearing our toons is the only 'new' end game content we're fed these days.

[Tsillah]

TL-DR: EVERY, and I mean EVERY complaint about the gearing system I have read in this thread disappears on November 28th -- assuming they don't screw up the conversion rate -- and while that is a big if, harping on the gearing system from January 2017 seems somewhat pointless.

So what about my complaint about PvP rewarding UCs for doing nothing in a warzone? So rewarding currency for BiS gear but just screwing around or afk'ing.

What about the complaint that PvE'ers come to warzones for UCs and not for PvP? I think the changes will make that somewhat less but in the end UCs are the way to BiS gear.

What about the complaint that GC crates are useless because 1-299 I have better gear than what drops (you can get 236 gear from ops as of level 50 and buy 230 to fill out the gaps at 70) and 300 will be irrelevant because of the UCs.

 

You see, I think Nov. 28th will help take the worst of the problem out of it in the sense of countering RNG but there are still issues at the core of it.

[Jdast]

I like your optimism...I just don't share it right now. It's clear that even Keith wants GC gearing to take as long as it possibly can. Gearing our toons is the only 'new' end game content we're fed these days.

 

Fair point. Just to make my position clear:

 

1) I have the benefit of only re-joining last December after the debacle on Ilum in 2012. I had a ton of new content to go through.

 

2) I share your pessimism that they will screw up the conversion rate.

 

3) They aren't releasing new content fast enough -- but frankly -- that applies to every MMORPG.

 

The difference, though, between me and some others is the following: I'm not a huge Star Wars fan(though I did get tired of fireballs, dragons and swords). I like the space theme but was the type of player who was stunned when Umbara was released and people started talking about 'canon' etc. I truly had no idea.

 

What I mean is -- I agree with you. At the end of the day, the gearing system will work itself out. But absent interesting and new content -- I know I'll take a break. Fortunately, as someone who is not a Star Wars fanatic, I won't feel the pull to keep playing -- until new content comes out. Done it before, will do it again.

 

Dasty

[Quraswren]

Half the people left the game over GC SNIP.....

 

I believe that to be more truthful than most want to believe.

 

No matter how much work and effort and design change bioware puts into galactic command. It will not bring gamers back. The negativity that galactic command caused cannot be repaired.

 

swtor has a lot of problem from crap communication to some of the worst content cadence ever but mention galactic command and gamers that know it shut right down hearing that it's still in game and happening even after all this time. No matter how you tell them it's changed. Screw GC is the answer.

 

As long as galactic command is in game. We cannot recover what was lost.

[TUXs]

2) I share your pessimism that they will screw up the conversion rate.

I am entirely convinced that they'll raise prices on the gear...that's how I think they'll compensate for giving us UC's.

[Jdast]

So what about my complaint about PvP rewarding UCs for doing nothing in a warzone? So rewarding currency for BiS gear but just screwing around or afk'ing.

What about the complaint that PvE'ers come to warzones for UCs and not for PvP? I think the changes will make that somewhat less but in the end UCs are the way to BiS gear.

What about the complaint that GC crates are useless because 1-299 I have better gear than what drops (you can get 236 gear from ops as of level 50 and buy 230 to fill out the gaps at 70) and 300 will be irrelevant because of the UCs.

 

You see, I think Nov. 28th will help take the worst of the problem out of it in the sense of countering RNG but there are still issues at the core of it.

 

Your first two points I have no response to other than -- completely agree. But that is a complaint about how they reward crates vs. the reward itself. If there is cool solution to punishing AFK-ers in PvP warzones, I think we are all game and open. And, this is just my personal thought, I think they incentivize PvP with UCs because otherwise they wouldn't pop enough and they lose the PvP crowd.

 

Where I disagree with you, though is your last point where you say GC crates are useless between 1-299. Not only are they not useless - they can benefit your main. Let's stipulate that the stuff you get in crates pre-300 is crap. Yes, it is convoluting and annoying, but post-Nov. 28th -- you can disintegrate all of it. But usually, mains get played to benefit alts -- now it is a two-way street. Frankly, I can't think of any other game that does that.

 

To wit: Why does this matter? Your GC level 50 booze-drinking, whoring Gungslinger can accumulate a currency that benefits your main tank / healer who takes one for the team during Ops.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Jdast