SWTOR Roadmap - The Autumn Update!

[Jdast]

My take on the roadmaps is this:

 

Keith, new to the job of lead producer has ideas on where he wants to take the game. As a player, he also has QoL improvements he would like to make. Some things would be fairly small and simple, others large and complex. If you ever worked on a project you would know discussions can go like this:

 

Keith: I want X,Y and Z.

Programmer: We can do X, we need to look into Y, we can't do Z.

Keith: When can you give me an answer on Y?

Programmer: 2 weeks.

 

As we all know 2 weeks becomes another 2 weeks becomes another month. This delays the roadmap because Keith can't finalise it due to testing and implementation feasibility. Frustrating for sure, but there it is.

 

The scenario you present seems quite plausible with respect to issues related to quality-of-life. However, I squarely and firmly agree with Andryah, that it is disconcerting (my phrasing) that broad issues cannot be discussed 3 weeks before the next update; e.g., which companions are returning, is it a new daily zone, a new Op, etc..

 

I will be the first to admit that I know nothing about programming, but if we take the last roadmap as a metric or example -- there really was nothing in it that we didn't already know (particularly those of us who go to reddit on occasion).

 

In any case, it will be interesting what Eric and Charles have to say tomorrow during the podcast. In some ways, I feel sorry for them. Why throw yourselves to the wolves when you have no info to reveal? I'll keep happily plugging along on alts, but it is disquieting and hardly confidence inspiring to say the least that they can't give any information this late in the game / this soon before the next update.

 

Dasty

Edited September 22, 2017 by Jdast

[Andryah]

My take on the roadmaps is this:

 

Keith, new to the job of lead producer has ideas on where he wants to take the game. As a player, he also has QoL improvements he would like to make. Some things would be fairly small and simple, others large and complex. If you ever worked on a project you would know discussions can go like this:

 

Keith: I want X,Y and Z.

Programmer: We can do X, we need to look into Y, we can't do Z.

Keith: When can you give me an answer on Y?

Programmer: 2 weeks.

 

As we all know 2 weeks becomes another 2 weeks becomes another month. This delays the roadmap because Keith can't finalise it due to testing and implementation feasibility. Frustrating for sure, but there it is.

 

I agree with you in the context of having to delay or alter upcoming major patches. But for a roadmap? NO.. not a chance... unless you clearly do not run on roadmaps internally (which is what a company would draw upon for making a public version of a more limited view of a roadmap).

 

See.. a roadmap is simply a high level plan... not a firm commitment based on precise dates, estimates of effort, etc. So this latest delay just reaffirms to me that they don't really operate internally on roadmaps. I don't think they come in to the studio each day and start by throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks (which is the opposite extreme), but clearly they are running fairly ad hoc. So.. we all will have to temper our expectations accordingly.

 

Basically.. I have felt for some time that they don't really do roadmaps (not even internally).. and this delay just further validates this point. It's great that Keith wanted to do a roadmap back in June and promised to revise it and release the revised roadmap quarterly (as in.. every three months). Personally, I have always been skeptical of Keiths desires in the context of what actually gets done or can get done.. so this is not surprising in some respects... but disappointing none the less. It feels like he is trying to push a cart with one wheel missing.. and at some point that is going to dig in and reflect negatively upon Keith with the player base.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Andryah

[kimiko_tomiyama]

Hey everyone,

 

...I know this is more of an announcement of an announcement, ...

Talk with you soon,

 

---Keith

 

Wow... When your time at Bioware is over, you should consider politics. You are a natural for DC.

[Andryah]

Why throw yourselves to the wolves when you have no info to reveal?

 

/raises_hand ........ wolves have to eat too.

[DarthDymond]

The scenario you present seems quite plausible with respect to issues related to quality-of-life. However, I squarely and firmly agree with Andryah, that it is disconcerting (my phrasing) that broad issues cannot be discussed 3 weeks before the next update; e.g., which companions are returning, is it a new daily zone, a new Op, etc..

 

I will be the first to admit that I know nothing about programming, but if we take the last roadmap as a metric or example -- there really was nothing in it that we didn't already know (particularly those of us who go to reddit on occasion).

 

In any case, it will be interesting what Eric and Charles have to say tomorrow during the podcast. In some ways, I feel sorry for them. Why throw yourselves to the wolves when you have no info to reveal? I'll keep happily plugging along on alts, but it is disquieting and hardly confidence inspiring to say the least that they can't give any information this late in the game / this soon before the next update.

 

Dasty

Irresponsible speculation ahead:

 

I wouldn't be surprised if right now they're just trying to keep something from their original 5.5 plans in that patch that qualifies as content, rather than having that game update be nothing more than a balance pass and bug fix. Talk about "shuffling things around" between patches usually means there are initial deadlines that aren't getting hit - which is understandable if they've had to divert manpower to make sure we don't end up with a repeat performance of 5.4's rollout SNAFU.

 

I don't know that I buy there is no internal roadmap, but I think right now there are probably a lot of question marks floating around at BW over what is going to have to be pushed from 5.5 to 5.6, from 5.6 to 5.7, etc. Even though they qualify their announcements with "things are always subject to change" disclaimers, they still don't want to put expected release dates out to the public that they'll have to revise. So I'd suspect they're holding off on announcing their Oct-Dec plans until they actually have revised dates in place that they think they have an honest shot of hitting.

 

Reality has a way of putting a sliding scale on an internal development roadmap, but they're probably making the call that holding off on a public announcement until they have a more solid view of their releases is the lesser of two evils vs releasing a roadmap with dates still in significant flux.

Edited September 22, 2017 by DarthDymond

[Andryah]

This may very well be the most negative towards BWA post I've seen from you (aside from bait and switch) ... what did you do with the real Andryah?

 

Heh... and yet I get accused all the time of never saying anything harsh or negative about the studio or the game.

 

I actually am critical of the studio on a good number of things. I just don't do the "full nutty" and slather up the entire forum with hyperbolic jello when I do. I try to keep it on point, objective, and avoid exaggeration or other silliness that clouds out the real message I am trying to convey.

 

At the end of the day.. I call them as I see them... and give no quarter to anybody that is completely off the mark on something. And in this case... honestly Keith blew this one. I don't think he wanted to, and I would love to see the chaos inside the studio that is so hamstringing his role as Producer. Of course I think he had reached the point where he had to say something since we are fast approaching the end of September with the studio mum on the roadmap for weeks now.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Andryah

[Andryah]

I don't know that I buy there is no internal roadmap, but I think right now there are probably a lot of question marks floating around at BW over what is going to have to be pushed from 5.5 to 5.6, from 5.6 to 5.7, etc. Even though they qualify their announcements with "things are always subject to change" disclaimers, they still don't want to put expected release dates out to the public that they'll have to revise. So I'd suspect they're holding off on announcing their Oct-Dec plans until they actually have revised dates in place that they think they have an honest shot of hitting.

 

Unless 5.5, 5.6, etc are essentially like the second coming of 3.0 (ie: lots of content players want) .... I just don't buy it. If they cannot even push a quarterly update on the public roadmap... then I don't believe the upcoming 5.x patches are going to be some giant sea change in terms of content releases. And a giant sea change event is the only thing that I would accept under the context of what you presented.

 

I managed large scale projects (including large customer facing support, service, and product web entities) for many years before I retired. And while I am watching from the outside here, as we all are, ... I know enough to be concerned about what we are observing here right now. Keith did indeed change things up when he first took over as Producer.. changes in words, and communications, and did restore some integrity with the players in the process... since that time... what we are seeing here is a regression to what we saw before Keith took over as producer. Which leads me to believe that there are significant factors that are somehow beyond Keith's control. I'm sure some conspiracy theorist will drive by here and claim that Keith is being manipulated by Ben in the background. But I don't think Keith is somehow Ben's "sock puppet". There is something else going on.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Andryah

[DarthDymond]

Unless 5.5, 5.6, etc are essentially like the second coming of 3.0 (ie: lots of content players want) .... I just don't buy it. If they cannot even push a quarterly update on the public roadmap... then I don't believe the upcoming 5.x patches are going to be some giant sea change in terms of content releases. And a giant sea change event is the only thing that I would accept under the context of what you presented.

Not sure why you think that. Eternal Championship wasn't any giant sea change content-wise, and it definitely had a place in their initial, internally-mapped plans for KotFE, but it still ended up being pushed from 4.2 to 4.4, leapfrogging the Warzones in the process. Things get shifted, and if they know shifts are going to happen they might wait until they have a better grasp on what that's going to end up looking like before making an announcement about future releases.

 

They might know right now that Ops Boss #3 is getting pushed from 5.5 to 5.6, but not be sure yet if that means Boss #4 and/or #5 have to be pushed back, too, or by how much. They might be working on Legacy-wide currency right now, but not be quite sure whether its a safe bet to announce that it will be in 5.7 or if they need to leave it vaguely "down the line". Nothing earthshaking, but still content that easily could be getting shifted around relative to each other.

 

Seems like the team might just be making a "lesser of two evils" call and be aiming to release an October 5th Roadmap that has announcements that are close-to-accurate, as opposed to having gone with a September 15th Roadmap that they were pretty sure was going to have pieces moved around before long.

Edited September 22, 2017 by DarthDymond

[Lunafox]

Unless 5.5, 5.6, etc are essentially like the second coming of 3.0 (ie: lots of content players want) .... I just don't buy it. If they cannot even push a quarterly update on the public roadmap... then I don't believe the upcoming 5.x patches are going to be some giant sea change in terms of content releases. And a giant sea change event is the only thing that I would accept under the context of what you presented.

 

I managed large scale projects (including large customer facing support, service, and product web entities) for many years before I retired. And while I am watching from the outside here, as we all are, ... I know enough to be concerned about what we are observing here right now. Keith did indeed change things up when he first took over as Producer.. changes in words, and communications, and did restore some integrity with the players in the process... since that time... what we are seeing here is a regression to what we saw before Keith took over as producer. Which leads me to believe that there are significant factors that are somehow beyond Keith's control. I'm sure some conspiracy theorist will drive by here and claim that Keith is being manipulated by Ben in the background. But I don't think Keith is somehow Ben's "sock puppet". There is something else going on.

 

Well, if at any point Keith starts talking about how RNG is exciting and refers to Malavai Quinn as MAH-LA-VEE, we'll know the truth.

 

I suspect it's the same thing. Keith seemed personable enough and willing to talk on the boards when he took over and even through PMs, which was nice. I had the pleasure of speaking to him a couple of times and he never struck me as being the sort to slough the players off. Like you, I think it's a background thing...like not enough people on the project to work on it, maybe not enough funds allocated to make things happen...and things that are beyond their ability to implement with things as they are.

 

Keith seemed eager enough, but all the eagerness in the world isn't going to flog the 3 poor souls working on the game any harder... or find them the millions or change the mechanics to do all the neat stuff we'd like. :/

Edited September 22, 2017 by Lunafox

[commanderwar]

Unless 5.5, 5.6, etc are essentially like the second coming of 3.0 (ie: lots of content players want) .... I just don't buy it. If they cannot even push a quarterly update on the public roadmap... then I don't believe the upcoming 5.x patches are going to be some giant sea change in terms of content releases. And a giant sea change event is the only thing that I would accept under the context of what you presented.

 

I managed large scale projects (including large customer facing support, service, and product web entities) for many years before I retired. And while I am watching from the outside here, as we all are, ... I know enough to be concerned about what we are observing here right now. Keith did indeed change things up when he first took over as Producer.. changes in words, and communications, and did restore some integrity with the players in the process... since that time... what we are seeing here is a regression to what we saw before Keith took over as producer. Which leads me to believe that there are significant factors that are somehow beyond Keith's control. I'm sure some conspiracy theorist will drive by here and claim that Keith is being manipulated by Ben in the background. But I don't think Keith is somehow Ben's "sock puppet". There is something else going on.

 

this is just my opinion, I totally disagree with regression part, the delayed of a roadmap has noting to do with the content those are two totally different things. the main reason for the delay is because they confirm they switch out the content that comes in 5.5 and 5.6 and the fact that he does have to send to other people and higher ups for checking. It does sucks yes but in the end if you want have a final actual roadmap with actual correct dates nothing no one can do and you kind have to delay it.

[jimmorrisson]

I am looking forward to the new PvP maps which was previously mentioned.

[feylyndiira]

I suppose I can see that. All they'd have to do is take off the Life Day lights off that Czerka LD-1 Celebrator lol.

 

Or recolor the Rishi reputation mount (I can't remember the name off the top of my head).

[Zhedzaban]

I agree with you in the context of having to delay or alter upcoming major patches. But for a roadmap? NO.. not a chance... unless you clearly do not run on roadmaps internally (which is what a company would draw upon for making a public version of a more limited view of a roadmap).

 

See.. a roadmap is simply a high level plan... not a firm commitment based on precise dates, estimates of effort, etc. So this latest delay just reaffirms to me that they don't really operate internally on roadmaps. I don't think they come in to the studio each day and start by throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks (which is the opposite extreme), but clearly they are running fairly ad hoc. So.. we all will have to temper our expectations accordingly.

 

Basically.. I have felt for some time that they don't really do roadmaps (not even internally).. and this delay just further validates this point. It's great that Keith wanted to do a roadmap back in June and promised to revise it and release the revised roadmap quarterly (as in.. every three months). Personally, I have always been skeptical of Keiths desires in the context of what actually gets done or can get done.. so this is not surprising in some respects... but disappointing none the less. It feels like he is trying to push a cart with one wheel missing.. and at some point that is going to dig in and reflect negatively upon Keith with the player base.

 

It is all dependant on what Keith wants to include in the roadmap. Say Keith wants to include planetary flying mounts. The programmers need time to see whether its feasible or not. So does Keith release a roadmap with no mention of flying or the possibility of flying? Or does he wait to get the definitive word from his programmers before releasing the roadmap?

[Rebamcfan]

Thanks for the update Keith! Wishing all the best and strenght for you and the team, hopefully everything goes as you have planned! People can be salty here in forums, but many of us will give our support and faith for you!

[Lunafox]

Or recolor the Rishi reputation mount (I can't remember the name off the top of my head).

 

Another good candidate lol. No shortage of ugly speeders to recolour, that's for sure.

[Eshvara]

Thanks for the update of the update.

 

Spoliers? Just two maybe?

 

Any expansion this year and will the raid be finished this year?

 

Imo it would be good to get those out in the open now because if we have to wait until the roadmap officially comes out then it could well be flooded with posts on those 2 particular topics (and all the doom n gloom or profound happiness depending which way it goes) which could flood out any really good feedback on more relevant and useful parts.

 

I say relevant and useful because if all the posts are for example - "you lied and promised the raid would be done this year" well there is nothing you can do about that so feedback isn't going to help get it out any sooner yet the thread will get flooded with it where as if you announce it now well at least that gets all that angst out of the way early.

 

Just an idea anyway, I would prefer the roadmap thread be full of detailed discussion on what is coming up rather than "this isn't happening and you said it would" or "the game is dieing because no expansion" which will happen either way if either are the case so best to just get those out of the way now me thinks (or confirm both are happening and get all the good back patting posts out of the way also).

 

I think the reason why they no longer give us sneak peaks what's in the roadmap is because of last time. Keith kept saying things that would be included and when the roadmap hit, people were like "we already knew that"

(Duh)

I may be wrong however and it may not be the reason, but reading the roadmap and not knowing anything that's in it is probably more satisfying.

 

:rak_03:It would be to me anyway.

[Ylliarus]

Hey everyone,

 

I have seen quite a few questions about the status of the Roadmap, both in timing and in content. I know this is more of an announcement of an announcement, but the plan is to deliver the updated version before our October 6th SWTOR Cantina in New York. I also realize I’ve been more quiet this past month, but we’ve been hard at work making sure we avoid the issues we had last month with Game Update 5.4.

 

As a result, we pushed back the release date of Game Update 5.5 to October 10, 2017, and as you’ll find out, we have lots of activity happening every couple weeks. In the Roadmap, I will provide you with exactly what we’re doing through the end of 2017 plus a glimpse of early 2018. After it's published, we’ll make sure we are available to answer your questions, address your concerns, and offer any additional insight. For those of you participating at the Cantina, we have a fun surprise for you that we’ll announce in an upcoming Livestream.

 

Talk with you soon,

 

---Keith

 

Thank you Keith I knew you'd come through! Thank you so much for posting this as the doomsaying was really becoming annoying and irritating to see and read. I am very very very interested in seeing what you have in store for us and the fact that the Roadmap will be released just before or during NYC Comic Con does confirm a lot of my thoughts and theories as to what you have in store for us I think I will be refreshening my Youtube feed very often that day... on the lookout for something that starts with a T and ends with RAILER

 

Thank you for all the effort and work you put into the game for us! It's appreciated too little and people too often have even ungrateful attitudes by spreading lies and misinformation along the lines of "the devs don't care", "the game is dead/dying/in maintenance mode". I think that it's worth expressing gratitude for once for the fact that you do care about us and have produced and are producing an amazing and epic game for us!

 

So... thank you Keith! Thank you Dev team! Thank you Bioware! You are all truly and honestly doing an amazing job!

Edited September 22, 2017 by Ylliarus

[orangenee]

My larking about aside. I'm on I'll believe it when I see it style of thing.

 

No excitement or anticipation on my end until I see something tangible. Words are just that after all.

 

I'll either be pleasantly surprised or I won't. I'm sure I did see 5.5 will be the last class unbalancing somewhere though, so that's good.

[TyonYlle]

You mean we might get an Arcann mount? LOL. I know there are those that might be pleased by that. I'm not one of them.

 

But, what if we got a "Theron mount?" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

Still waiting for you to say sorry to all the players for breaking your commitment to bring these updates every three months which on your current track you will be a month late .

Jeeze relax dude, sure promised us a road map by now, but **** happens. I would be inclined to agree with you, if Keith said something like he will release a roadmap by now. All he did, (this is my interpretation, ofc) "I promise to try to give you a roadmap regularly". This certainly doesn't call for some "apology" because I think we all can agree that Keith is trying.

 

I know we won't learn anything story related, or at the very least it'll just be when we can expect new story. But so long as we're all wishing hypothetically, I'd like to know if we can both kill and spare/save etc Theron, and if the latter if he will have a future role in storylines.

[Eshvara]

But, what if we got a "Theron mount?" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

I see what you did there.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Eshvara

[TyonYlle]

I see what you did there.

 

What? I did nothing. You can't prove anything! (⌐■_■)

[Sargrith]

A promise to give a road map.....well ok.

 

For those who keep saying give Keith time, he’s working hard for us, your all doomsayers, it’s not on maintenance mode...whatever cheery thing you feel the need to say.....yeah this means nothing. Its a promise to release a roadmap, and to communicate better.....we’ve been told both things before....he isn’t repeating those promises because he kept that promise well last time, just think that over a second.......if you keep having to make the same promise there is a reason and it’s not a good one.

 

Keith I have some advice for whatever lies ahead. I like how you gave dps goals for all classes it put on the table your reason for nerfs. That’s good. But like a bandaid you pull it off all at once. Including nerfs in every update make each one disliked, each one dreaded, and really keeps people frustrated. If you have a need to do this again seriously consider waiting till all of them are ready then posting them and implementing them in one get it over with patch.

[Costello]

Being the second update on when the roadmap may be coming out, it is starting to seem like just dragging out announcements about future content.

 

While the announcement itself is lacking in any real detail, hard at working making sure what happen with 5.4 doesn't happen again is so vague as to say nothing. What caused the issues in 5.4, what is being done to stop it happening again? You may as well say we have been hard at work being hard at work. Cause lets face it the last non patch broke things, not big things only delaying purchases but it doesn't seem this hard work has really paid off, and when 5.5 or 5.6 is delayed and bugs happen it will just be the same and more claims to stop it will happen.

 

While the claim to be on hand to deal with questions and concerns is vague and worrying. You often promise follow up, but it never happens. How much follow up has there been on the class nerfs or the GSF posts or even the post about this announcement. While concerns and the state of the game make it seem like the next road map will be disappointing raising concerns and could be as much as the game is going into maintenance mode and the concern will be if the story will ever be concluded.

 

Speaking of which, I can only hope that given the state of the game the 'Traitor' revealed in Patch 5.4 is put to a slow painful death with a great deal of public display to discourage any more traitors. As best case the traitor has gone rogue with no oversight and thus has no place or is a traitor and must be put to death. It must be time to make a very public painful display of what happens to people that think they can get away with that to discourage it happening in the future. As the story has become one of constant betrayal, just look at the original 'new companions' from Kotfe. Lana incompetent, Koth traitor, HK dead, Senya traitor, Scorpio traitor, etc etc. It so old.

[TyonYlle]

Speaking of which, I can only hope that given the state of the game the 'Traitor' revealed in Patch 5.4 is put to a slow painful death with a great deal of public display to discourage any more traitors. As best case the traitor has gone rogue with no oversight and thus has no place or is a traitor and must be put to death. It must be time to make a very public painful display of what happens to people that think they can get away with that to discourage it happening in the future. As the story has become one of constant betrayal, just look at the original 'new companions' from Kotfe. Lana incompetent, Koth traitor, HK dead, Senya traitor, Scorpio traitor, etc etc. It so old.

You're essentially calling for Theron's death, bold move.

[Glzmo]

Hey everyone,

 

I have seen quite a few questions about the status of the Roadmap, both in timing and in content. I know this is more of an announcement of an announcement, but the plan is to deliver the updated version before our October 6th SWTOR Cantina in New York. I also realize I’ve been more quiet this past month, but we’ve been hard at work making sure we avoid the issues we had last month with Game Update 5.4.

 

As a result, we pushed back the release date of Game Update 5.5 to October 10, 2017, and as you’ll find out, we have lots of activity happening every couple weeks. In the Roadmap, I will provide you with exactly what we’re doing through the end of 2017 plus a glimpse of early 2018. After it's published, we’ll make sure we are available to answer your questions, address your concerns, and offer any additional insight. For those of you participating at the Cantina, we have a fun surprise for you that we’ll announce in an upcoming Livestream.

 

Talk with you soon,

 

---Keith

Hopefully the long awaited option to enable chat bubblesfor /say, /yell and /emote player chat will be included in the roadmap for 2017 or at least the "glimpse of early 2018". Fingers crossed.