Discussion Topic: Game Update 5.4 and the Next Roadmap

[Deldra]

I apologize for the harshness of the remainder of this post but this update is unacceptable. Back in the thread titled "Season 8 Rewards" (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=924525) we were promised: "In the next few weeks we will work on getting you an exact list of what each item is along with screenshots. As a reminder, the season will be ending with Game Update 5.4. Let us know your thoughts!"

 

We have not been given that at all. That thread was from 6/13, which was 5.5 weeks ago. That is not a "few weeks" by anyone's measure. We have not been told the reward tier rating requirements. The leaderboards have not been fixed/updated. Ranked PvPers have absolutely no idea where they stand for top three titles or reward tiers.

 

And the season ends in almost exactly a month. Now you are saying "We will post the full breakdown of rewards with screenshots in the coming weeks". So, we will have what, a week or two to get our ratings in the right place once we actually have a clue what the tier rating requirements are?

 

It really makes us feel like you do not care about the ranked PvP community as this information has been put off and put off and put off again. And now we have almost no time left and you're still putting it off. Please, if you care at all, tell us all of this very important information NOW!

 

No need to say more, I completely agree with this. Today's post felt like "More info is coming" more than "Here is the inof you wanted".

[Eli_Porter]

We are making changes to daily and weekly mission rewards for PvP with the intent of substantially improving Unassembled Component gain for players who complete both Ranked and Unranked missions.

 

Please make the rewards based on participation so we don't have players going AFK to win good rewards or running premades to win double rewards.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[Khaleijo]

For Umbara’s Master Mode we are trying something new, and depending on how well it goes, we may do something similar for all Master Mode Flashpoints. Specifically, a player will need to have an average gear rating of 242 to use Group Finder. We won’t prevent pre-made groups from going in directly, but this will prevent under-geared players from slowing down your group.

 

Wasn't bolster introduced to level out gear issues? MM FP are bolstered too.

The problem with most PUGS isn't gear. It's that players do not know how to play their class and/or roles or have learned in Veteran mode to ignore most to all mechanics or just don't know them and don't ask.

I've run Lost Island and Blood Hunt MM with PUG players below 70 several times and it worked, because they knew how to play their classes and the mechanics or were able to follow instructions. Some of these groups even managed to kill the LI bonus boss.

 

A sensible "barrier" to MM FP would be something like the proving grounds in other MMOs. If a player manage to succeed there with whatever (bolstered?) gear he has, he should be able to succeed in all FPs. Implement basic mechanics like voids or cleaves, addspawns, different sorts of healing challenges, interrupts, and so on, for the players tor know better what to expect in MM FPs and if they are up to it.

[DukeLorien]

Hey Keith,

 

thanks for the information regarding 5.4. In general I want to thank you and your team for communicating more during the last months then ever since i play that game. Btw big thanks for nerfing the ... out of mandos/mercs dps. Sry but i just dont like them^^.

 

I like the boss design of the new operation so far and i can't wait to see what you have in store for us regarding the next three bosses. I believe it was a good idea to bring back tokens for killing op-bosses. The adjustments to the command-system and components and all that where necessary and allows that the players to play the game how they like (e.g. more pvp or pvp or spvp...) and still get gear if they want. I actually liked the story (KOTFE & KOTET) and you should do "story" in the future. But I play it maybe once or twice enjoy it and then i wanna raid and kill new bosses in operations.

 

I would like to take your 5.4.-announcement to ask some questions and of course comment on your announcement.

 

Regarding the umbara-flashpoint:

I have a lot of chars. At the start of 5.0 i levled some of my toons via master fp's (healers and tanks and dps) and they had not even 224 full gear except my main char. My only char that has 242-gear or higher is my main. Pls don't put gear restrictions on a flashpoint. I know some players are better then others and some/many need better gear to do something that others can do in ****** gear. But pls it is a flashpoint. And i often look for master fp's via gf. Btw the problem isn't the gear of the players. The problems are standing in ****, not following mechanics, not knowing when to cleanse, not following kill-order, breaking cc or not kicking casts, don't los... A player with better gear then required will still die/wipe the group if he does not kick the "if this cast is finished you will die"-cast. I like the idea with the umbara stronghold. Made me curious,,,

QoL:

ya well...

Is there some new info on the "outfit-designer"-thingy for weapons. I would pay anything. When can we whisper to guildies with funny letters (e.g. ê, é, è, ...)? Whats with making credits legacy-wide?

 

I do have some other questions. I hope you can find the time to answer them.

1. If I remember correctly, you said with the release of the second boss (Esne&Aivela) you will release Tyth in mastermode. I never heard or read anything about that from you/your team. Only players asking about this or discussing it. So...

 

2. Is there any news on making components legacy-wide?

 

3. Any new event(s) in store? Good idea putting new goodies on the casino-event (love the decorations...) but something new would be nice

 

4. Is there a timeline for releasing boss three to five of the new operation? I figure the third boss will be released in september or even later...

 

5. Will there be a "big" expansion (6.0) in the end of the year? Or after you released all bosses of the operation.

 

6. Can you give some inormation on the numbers of players that actually play the game (subscribers, f2p's)?

 

7. Can you pls do a livestream "operation-night" where you and your team does an operation in veteran or master mode and musco has to heal it with a sorc/sage. The playerbase should vote which operation ist is but ev and kp dont count?

 

Ok. That's it for now. I hope you find the time to answer. Btw i am german and so i can be very persistent^^.

 

MfG

Aariy

@ T3-M4

Edited July 22, 2017 by DukeLorien

[IoNonSoEVero]

Look, I want my Class companions back as much as the next person, and would love some new heroics, especially on Manaan, Zakuul and Darvannis. But, I I know I'm not the only person they cater to at BWA. The Ops players want more, he PVP-er's want more, and we want more, so don't make it look like "No one does certain content", when you are talking for yourself. Personally, I love Flashpoints, and the Crisis on Umbara is interesting. (Same with the new Stronghold.

 

Also, Umbara was introduced in The Clone Wars, not Rebels.

 

Agreed, and as long as the FP has a solo/story mode it's all good, but having said that, I hope that those of us who are story focused are not being forgotten.

Edited July 22, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

[xeraphyne]

you know you get 242/248 gear from hm/nim yes? granted nim might only do 248 for last boss, it perfectly doable now as opposed to pre 5.3 where there was not gear loot from ops at all.

 

As for the new OPS it is joke and even more of joke they making use wait half year to year to get all of it. which basicly tells me they had no OPS and this was last minute thing.

 

spending basicly 2 years on solo content was there first mistake follow by saying we would never go a year with out a new ops and alot of remeber them say thisyet we went 3 year with out a new one, and it might be another year before it actual done, which one main reason majority of raiders left the game, only ones left are die hard starwars fans.

 

I run the content, so I'm aware of the gear drops. Nightmare content dropping blue 244 garbage, a chance at 246 purple, and the last boss a 248 is stupid and a big middle finger to raiders. HM ToS/Ravagers drop 242.. It's leaps and bounds easier to gear out in full 248 by doing PVP/GSF. FACT. I'm not disagreeing or arguing with you but this is retarded for gearing out 8 people in a raid, when we PVE not PVP.

 

I also completely agree with the your last sentiment. I'm pretty positive their new operation is a complete thrown together farce that was done last minute to appease the raiders. However, those screams for content are warranted.

[casirabit]

Keith,

 

I think I understand what you are trying to do with the Master Flashpoints with them (maybe) requiring 242 gear. Part of the problem is people have come to the forums complaining about this player and that player not knowing what they are doing and not having adequate gear. Maybe instead of 242 have it require 230 gear since that is more accessible for people.

 

This might be better this way people need to have at least 230 gear and maybe that will work better for more people instead of the 242 gear.

[Eli_Porter]

I think 228 makes way more sense, IF they include augments. I've seen more than my fair share of people in 242 un-augmented gear.

[ZouYan]

There is no need for 242 gear in MM flashpoints. Personally i have healed, tanked and dps MM flashpoints in 208 gear. I hav also seen people in full 248 gear that can't make the checks. I guess a good compromise though would be 230 gear to be fair to the rest of the group members. That level of gear can easily be accessed by all level 70 players and doesn't require a long grind for people who don't have veteran or even story mode ops on farm. In my opinion MM flashpoints should be used as a building block to SM ops.

[menofhorror]

I think it's a good idea but I would lower the requirements. 228 or 230 would be in my opinion a better boundary.

[xmarcusprimex]

Kieth,

 

Is the entire stronghold a moving train, or is the moving train part of a stationary stronghold?

[Exly]

Maybe you should add unassembled components to chapters, flashpoints and uprisings, and while you're at it, make them legacy wide too.

 

Seriously, the game is still too grindy, and making less so would be appreciated as long as you don't pussyfoot around with small changes to make things better (like you did with the paltry 25% legacy cxp boost that you gave for sub level 300 characters in 5.2).

 

It is obvious that with the introduction of 248 gear you saw people over performing on your target dps numbers, and that the nerfs that we are now having to endure are a result of the higher dps output that was made possible because of tier 4 gear. The problem is that all that you have accomplished with this is made it seem like the grind will never end, and that has lost you a lot of customers.

 

Don't keep trying to make it hard for us to want to play the game. Give us a break and make gearing characters less time intensive. Some of us want to play the game, but we want it to feel like a game and not like a job.

[IntegrationArch]

Keith has said, while others have devs said it it the engine and engine can be fix and they are stuck with just like player, so excuse me if I dont believe him. Hero engine might but able to this but this engine Heavily modified verison of very old version of heroengine, So much so that creator of heroengine even said they have no clue what bw did to engine cause it should have much better performance, I mean really EVEN 6700k is not strong enough to brute force 60 with 16 players on the screen in wz, and that is mostly due to fact GPU is probably at 25% usage in, The game barely use 1 core correctly and usual not the same core it jumps from core to core at that.

 

If not the engine they need to prove us ALL wrong that engine can do proper multicore threading and actual offload of Work on to gpu. cause it hasnt been able do that at all. I have seen mmo with 64v64 server battle that keep 30 fps and look better then this game on it lowest setting, if they tried to do 64v64 server battles with this engine we will have the ilum slide show of 5 fps happen again, which why ilums open world pvp was removed in first place, and one still around from then remembers that slide show it was with just just 2 16 man ops going at it. Engine can even keep 60fps in 8v8 wz with out have some super beefy cpu pair with gpu just as beefy

 

The engine's job is not to assign what threads get multicored it would become the job of DX12.

 

Think of the engine as how the BW devs would surgically rebuild the SWTOR DX9 Game client into DX12. Then think if DX12 (properly coded) as the game processing thread 'distributor' to all the CPU'S on the client PC. Think of DX12 mapping a certain unused GPU avallable core to draw the rendering for the Outfit Preview or the Fire on an explosion, or the rendering of any effect like Tuning, that's why DX12 would enable much higher client side frame rates.

 

Then a 64Bit client would give all the parked game processes plenty of instant memory to wait until needed and give it to you immediately vs 32 bit having to page out and recall them from swapfile. Plus the Gaming API would be 10 years newer and just fuction totally better than if it's build for XP 32 bit OS.

Edited July 22, 2017 by IntegrationArch

[oli-fynnobi]

I apologize for the harshness of the remainder of this post but this update is unacceptable. Back in the thread titled "Season 8 Rewards" (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=924525) we were promised: "In the next few weeks we will work on getting you an exact list of what each item is along with screenshots. As a reminder, the season will be ending with Game Update 5.4. Let us know your thoughts!"

 

We have not been given that at all. That thread was from 6/13, which was 5.5 weeks ago. That is not a "few weeks" by anyone's measure. We have not been told the reward tier rating requirements. The leaderboards have not been fixed/updated. Ranked PvPers have absolutely no idea where they stand for top three titles or reward tiers.

 

And the season ends in almost exactly a month. Now you are saying "We will post the full breakdown of rewards with screenshots in the coming weeks". So, we will have what, a week or two to get our ratings in the right place once we actually have a clue what the tier rating requirements are?

 

It really makes us feel like you do not care about the ranked PvP community as this information has been put off and put off and put off again. And now we have almost no time left and you're still putting it off. Please, if you care at all, tell us all of this very important information NOW!

 

I absolutely agree!

[ivanhedgehog]

So are you guys going to take a smarter approach to your class balance changes and release them on the PTR to see how they would actually affect more than just one aspect of the game(this requires you to actually take our feedback)? Or are you just going to nerf nerf nerf and call it good making content slowly more difficult to complete(more so than it already is since you basically have to have certain classes that were untouched in order to meet the current dps checks)?

 

I see you guys changing a lot and just throwing it in our face instead of asking us, the community, what we think of the changes and how maybe some should be switched.

 

They dont care what we think. They made that very clear.

[Deewe]

Hi Keith,

 

thanks for the update, new content is appreciated as is the bone... companion customization.

 

A new strong hold is welcomed though I'd rather have first:

• Extended range for hooks customization
  
• 3rd axis tweaking
  
• Scaling items
  
• Removal of hook type restrictions
  
• Tilt/pan decorations
  
• More hooks
  

 

Then once done, I would love to have more rooms added to the existing strongholds first: caves, ceilings, glass domes, roof areas, secret passageways,

 

Then in another thread you asked about suggestions in regard of QoL.

 

Would very much like to hearing from you about this:

Couple of entries that would be most welcome.

 

Top 9 are a must have.

1. Fix gear preview window
   
2. Fix sliding loading screen splash screen
   
3. Add a Forum icon for Stronghold section (Not a joke)
   
4. Hot key mouse steering toogle (steering hurts some of us)
   
5. Allow to change the UI font to a non bold one (bold is difficult to read and tiring for the eye)
   
6. Color blind mode and allow other choices of color than red/green distinction which is very unfriendly for colorblind people (9.5% males in NA)
   
7. Detach and tweak UI players RAID frames one from the other and only display cleansable effects
   
8. Mouse over healing
   
9. One button Ignore/report spammers account wide
   
10. Allow players to read/write emails remotely without a timer nor CD
    
11. Allow players to browse the GTN remotely
    
12. Add an in game calendar for guilds
    
13. Add an in game mass mailing to guilds
    
14. Legacy Wallet (for subs or CC unlock)
    
15. Scale UI frames individually
    
16. Add a detachable and resizeable world map
    
17. Detach Long term buffs from the combat ones for better readability
    
18. Dedicated legacy crafting mats storage
    
19. Option not to automatically sort out characters at login screen by last played one.
    
20. Add a field for Input price per unit on the GTN
    
21. Increase GTN search input box length
    
22. Have splitting tags function remember last amount selected (useful for selling mats on the GTN)
    
23. Target of target damage transfer in PvE
    
24. Move toys into abilities
    
25. Regroup abilities by Active/Passive
    
26. Add 2+ quick slot bars (need more with less buttons)
    
27. Allow to map hotkey directly to any skill, pet, vehicles without needing to add them into quick slots.
    
28. Hide/edit companions quick slot bar and allow to move all their skills in players quick slot bars or key bind directly
    
29. Tag bound items with a specific icon/border to distinguish them easily
    
30. Allow to macro emotes and also to drop them into quick slots/keybindings
    
31. Hot key to toggle names display
    
32. Add dual specs and one button gear/specs switch
    
33. Differentiate harvesting nodes one form the others depending the crew skills
    
34. Allow players not to play specific WZ they don't like
    
35. Add hot key bindings do switch to specific wardrobes sets
    
36. Allow gear, weapons, mounts, pets to be tied to specific combinations
    
37. Allow to edit the conquest, DvL and stronghold UI frame
    
38. Option to automatically skip WZ cinematic
    
39. Remove the 2 days timer for unpacking CM items
    
40. More, much much more filters to the crafting UI
    
41. By default have all the sub menu (crafting, quests, recipe vendors...) collapsed.
    

 

Now one of the biggest issue I have is inventory management.

 

I have around 2.000 items spreads between all my alts (plus hundreds in the CM storage) and it's a pain to maintain. Even at times it's frustrating to be stuck with such unfriendly systems. I keep them because their either don't stack, or I don't have the full sets or I do but the unlock is so expensive that I keep them until I'm certain on which character I will use them.

 

I'd love to be able to drop everything (but the bound items) in a CM like inventory, having all of them automatically stacked then being able to sort them out. Think I would pay north of 2000CC for this feature, especially if it's topped by a legacy wide wallet.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Deewe

[LtGeneralGezlin]

Hey, Keith. There were a few other things I was wondering about...

 

In 5.2, the team updated the Intro cinematic for the Eight Class stories. I loved that QoL change (Mostly because it gave me a nice intro for my SWTOR Videos!), and I've been wondering if there were any plans on continuing this and updating the rest of the Class story cinematic (As well as the Ilum and Makeb cinematics. And the Planetary arrival/departure scenes, since a lot of those are outdated compared to Rishi/Yavin/Ziost, ect.) in the same way? Or was that a one time thing?

 

2) Will we see other Flashpoints have a "Solo/Story" mode added? Also... why give Directive 7 a Solo mode? I was always wondering about that....

[JattaGin]

Dear Keith,

 

thank you for your update. I appreciate it. Since you request feedback, here is mine:

 

* I haven't had one single Uprising GF pop since February, no matter when I try my luck.

 

* Not one of my guilds has touched the new OP-bosses yet or showed the slightest interest in doing so.

 

* I have yet to find a group for this big droid on Iokath. No one wants to group up.

 

* PvP pops always take very long, GSF even longer.

 

* I don't remember when I played my last FP. Probably during the DvL event last year.

 

My impression: Group content is not as much sought after as some people claim. (Note: The last point about FPs doesn't count for my impression, because that's my own choice.)

 

My first question: Are you really sure that the majority of the players is all for prioritising new group content? I know, the OPs-crew and the PvP-crew have been and are very vocal here. But are they really that many to justify completely changing your course again and discarding (most of) the story aspects (including companion returns)? (I was very sad when I read Charles' post about how you cut down the KotFE-trilogy. The original idea that Charles indicated would have been absolutely to my liking. Please pass this message on to him, will you? So that he knows that there was/is actually a target group for what you had in mind. Maybe too small though? I don't know. Thanks.)

 

My second question: How many players have touched the new OP bosses (metrics)? Is there really that much interest for it? Do as many people come back to the game as certain groups on this board have claimed? Or are much more people playing solo / small group content instead? I hope that your change of course has a positive effect, because I want this game to continue. It's an important hobby for me. I'm just worrying that the shift towards group content will not turn out as you hoped. You know how few players played OPs in the past. I don't think that this will suddenly change. How many players are interested in new OPs in general (whether delivered step-by-step or at once)? I know that there are players who waited a long time for it and for them, I am happy that they get this kind of content. But since it's obvious that BW can currently not handle two different things at the same time anymore, I wonder if the priority was well chosen. I hope it was! But I feel doubtful due to what I see, hear and read in-game (and not here on ze forumz).

 

My perception is that group content is used less than solo content. And it has been for years. Obviously, hardly no one queues for Uprisings on my server, for example. I'm not kidding. February was the last time I got a pop. I track the achievements. Half of the Uprisings are still unplayed, because I couldn't find a group yet. I'm on The Progenitor, a server which is not completely dead yet (even though it has seen much better days). Or is there, after all, a bug with Uprising group finder? I find it hard to believe to never get a pop. I play a healer. This should speed queueing times up, I would assume. And yes, of course my perception is subjective. But if there are 100 people on the fleet and someone is LFM for an OP and three hours later, he is still looking for the same amount of players, I think it's safe to say that of those 100 players on the fleet, less than 5 are interested in playing OPs. (What are people doing on the fleet anyway if they apparently are not interested in grouping up? That's something I wondered for years, but that's another topic. ERP? )

 

My opinion: I couldn't care less for any new group content you make. I am nowadays only interested in story, companion stuff and lightweight content like strongholds, crafting and so on. ZionHalync posted a very interesting idea in the suggestion forum about rehashing the old 1-50 content. That would be something I would dig. I am also looking forward to Umbara and will happily play the solo FP. Veteran or Master modes? If I have to play them in order to unlock the stronghold, I will do them exactly the amount of times, I have to in order to get the SH. If I can get the SH through solo mode, I will neither touch veteran nor master mode.

 

My conclusion: I only speak for myself and I only told my experiences with group content during the last months. My perception is of course subjective. If new group content is indeed what the majority of players is longing for the most, I won't stand in the way. But I won't be excited about any news about new FPs, OPs, GSF (well, maybe a bit, depending on what it would be), PvP, Uprisings. I would be very excited to get chapters for companion returns. One chapter per companion.

 

Apostil: I get that you try to add a bit of everything now as quickly as possible (some story in April, OP-bosses in April and July, an FP in August....) and I wish you good luck with everything! I hope for success, because I love this game.

 

TL;DR: Nothing important here, just my personal opinion which is neither worth more nor less than anyone else's here.

Edited July 22, 2017 by JattaGin

[JakRoanin]

Yes yes and yes!

[commanderwar]

awesome looking forward to it, Yayyy new stronghold and flashpoint

 

but two questions

1. Is the umbara stronghold just the train?

 

2. also do you know when we will now which Comp we get in umbara story and learn more about the story

[kvandertulip]

[*]We are making changes to daily and weekly mission rewards for PvP with the intent of substantially improving Unassembled Component gain for players who complete both Ranked and Unranked missions.

 

This is unfair to players on servers that don't have the possibility of completing Ranked daily/weeklies due to server population issues. This won't help improve the too low Unassembled Component gain for players where Ranked doesn't happen ever. I'm on Jedi Covenant and I haven't had a solo ranked match in about 3 months.

 

A fix to population issues is years overdue at this point. We are pushing the three year anniversary of "better than cross-server". Can we expect some attempt to fix population issues coming down the pipeline or should we accept the current situation? I think at this point after years of waiting we deserve some answer to this.

 

If the answer is no, than this is not a good way to increase Unassembled Component gain. A flat buff across the board would be much more equitable.

[Gelious]

Dear Keith,

 

thank you for your update. I appreciate it. Since you request feedback, here is mine:

 

* I haven't had one single Uprising GF pop since February, no matter when I try my luck.

 

* Not one of my guilds has touched the new OP-bosses yet or showed the slightest interest in doing so.

 

* I have yet to find a group for this big droid on Iokath. No one wants to group up.

 

* PvP pops always take very long, GSF even longer.

 

* I don't remember when I played my last FP. Probably during the DvL event last year.

 

My impression: Group content is not as much sought after as some people claim. (Note: The last point about FPs doesn't count for my impression, because that's my own choice.)

.[/i]

Your impression is 100% wrong, Please do yourself a favor and leave whatever dead server you are playing on.

I am really tired of people from empty servers stating no one does group content.

[Nmyownworld]

Thanks for the information, Keith Kanneg.

• Umbara Stronghold – This is the most unique stronghold yet, as you will be able to decorate your own moving train. You’ll need to complete the flashpoint a few times to gain access to the stronghold. Look for more details about the Stronghold in an upcoming post.
  

Another Stronghold is nice, however without a vastly improved system for getting a larger variety of decorations, Strongholds are beginning to come across as mainly being the bailiwick of Conqest bonuses.

 

Recent Cartel packs dropping few, if any, decorations. Also, no changes to which decorations Fabricator droids carry, and very few changes to decos from Felucia Stato, for three years. Stealth nerf to decoration drops in most FPs and deco drops on planets. A clear dev statement on where decorations from FPs and mobs can be obtained would be great.

 

I think decorating Strongholds has moved into the realm of being primarily for those with 100s of millions of credits, or those seeking Conquest bonuses and are fine with filling up a SH with mailboxes and basic chairs. If that is the intent, I'd like to know. If that is an unintended side effect, I'd like to know what will be done to address the situation.

 

Specific Feedback:

-- Put more decorations up for direct purchase in the Cartel Market.

-- Listen to player feedback about what's wanted. For example, the Deepwater Essentials bundle comes across to me as sort of listening to players. A deco only pack - yes! With one floorlamp - why? An arrangement with a Selkath couch - yes, that requires a centerpiece hook -- no.

-- Put new decorations on reputation vendors and credits vendors.

-- Remove Valor requirement on decorations. There's a difference between encouraging participation in PvP, and arm twisting trying to get players to PvP.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Nmyownworld

[Asmodesu]

Your impression is 100% wrong, Please do yourself a favor and leave whatever dead server you are playing on.

I am really tired of people from empty servers stating no one does group content.

 

I'm having that person's same issue on harbinger for the operations and daily area boss. Finding very, very few (or none at all) public / non-guild only groups going during the times of the day which I can play (Aussie afternoons/evenings) and it's meant to be one of the more populated servers. I'm never saying "don't release more group stuff" I'm just "where's the people to do this group stuff with without requiring me to leave my amazing but small guild community". ie- group finder never popping and rarely seeing anyone at all asking for more people for their group.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Asmodesu

[scardera]

the great **** nerfs will continue