indelible Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) Never mind the fact that they are forced to do it if they want to min/max..... And that they have to put more time into PVP than the PVP'ers have to put into PVE to do the same...... And vice versa doesn't apply because...? Edited July 1, 2017 by indelible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) Now this guy, I like. I prefer women myself, but hey, takes all kinds, right? =p Edited July 1, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) Never mind the fact that they are forced to do it if they want to min/max..... And that they have to put more time into PVP than the PVP'ers have to put into PVE to do the same...... Wow, that must suck for you. My point stands. EXACTLY!!!!!! We don't see bioware catering to the PvP'rs when it comes to operations! So stop catering to the few PvE'rs that randomly que! Keep them separate. stop trying to please everyone by pissing everyone off instead. EXACTLY. Just bring back Expertise and a separate PvP progression. The experiment joining the gear systems has sucked. Edited July 1, 2017 by stoopicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 No true scotsman harder pls BIS Gear has NEVER been a part of pvp, get over it lmao. People have spent a lot of time getting their full 248s and then you come along wanting a free hand out. Lel no, put some effort in. Fixed that for you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronjaw Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) I liked the 3.0-4.0 grind. It encouraged people to learn to play in lowbies so they could have a full set by max level. It was skill v. skill. Not skill v. skill+gear v. gear. If expertise isn't coming back then I as a player who grinded for full 248 would prefer my opposition to have a free hand out. PvP should be skill v. skill. Edited July 1, 2017 by Cronjaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 I liked the 3.0-4.0 grind. It encouraged people to learn to play in lowbies so they could have a full set by max level. It was skill v. skill. Not skill v. skill+gear v. gear. If expertise isn't coming back then I as a player who grinded for full 248 would prefer my opposition to have a free hand out. PvP should be skill v. skill. That's a really nice way to put it. I'm fully geared in T4 as well; I don't want to win because my opponents aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACATW Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) They would start to complain after a few more weeks that its not fun anymore and they want new maps, new modes etc. Nobody complained during 4.0-5.0 about gearing, yet during 5.1 onwards we see tons of complaint threads with many people upset about the endless grind. Hence why they had the right idea originally in 5.0 to simply bolster players gear to 250. 5.1 onwards was a mistake. Edited July 1, 2017 by RACATW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Nobody complained during 4.0-5.0 about gearing, yet during 5.1 onwards we see tons of complaint threads with many people upset about the endless grind. Hence why they had the right idea originally in 5.0 to simply bolster players gear to 250. 5.1 onwards was a mistake. Yep. 5.0 pre 5.1 was an awesome time in the warzones, especially for alts. It was great. This is a fact, bolster was 250, the warzones were thriving, it happened, lots of us were there. It's not exactly disputable at this point. merovejec's assertion, on the other hand, is an opinion, one I have never heard anyone but him say, and seems unlikely to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 That's a really nice way to put it. I'm fully geared in T4 as well; I don't want to win because my opponents aren't. As much as a raising the bolster to 250 would even the playing field [and I'm fine with], there would still be some advantage gained by having full T4 gear in some tertiary stats over someone in say 236 gear. So to those that suggest raising the bolster to 250 would make grinding T4 gear pointless to those who put forth the effort in obtaining it, that point is not entirely valid. Also having full T4 gear, having "put in all the time and effort to obtain it", I could care less if they raise the bolster back to 250. If it makes it easier and fairer to all concerned so that no one has any inherent significant advantage over another than screw the "time and effort", let's do what is best for the most amount of people in the long run. To those who are long time PVPers, raising the bolster is less of a change and more of a fix. There is no precedent in this game for BIS gear progression in PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayNih Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 I have a question: If bolster is raised to 250, PVPers will unsubscribe and join a guild that will group them into Unranked. I know they will not progress in the Command System, but will they still be earning Unassembled Components? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 SWToR economy is a joke because In game items generate a small portion of the items on the GTN...When was the last time you looted something that you could sell that was worth anywhere near a CM item?... Crafting is the exception but with the huge push to create alts in 4.0 I have one of every craft discipline on my alts. I don't buy crafted items....I make them... Economy is a mess cause of the exploits that left ppl with zillions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 That isn't a good justification for not bolstering to 250. That is a good explanation for why a 238 bolster would be akin to calling maintenance mode for PvP players. Let's keep it at 238 to give them the feeling of achieving something, when in reality we're only stalling for time because we can't deliver content? You know what? They should try and see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 I have a question: If bolster is raised to 250, PVPers will unsubscribe and join a guild that will group them into Unranked. Sir, you just hit the nail on the head!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Sir, you just hit the nail on the head!! Oh, BS. It didn't happen the last time bolster was at 250, it won't happen now either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahandra Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) And vice versa doesn't apply because...? It applies, but isn't equal..... A PVP'er has to do a hole lot less of PVE than vice versa for min/max. As it stands now, the PVE crowd that doesn't like to PVP is in for a much longer grind to min/max. Edited July 1, 2017 by Lahandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahandra Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) Wow, that must suck for you. My point stands. EXACTLY. Just bring back Expertise and a separate PvP progression. The experiment joining the gear systems has sucked. So same simple answer.... WOW, that must suck for you.... Guess that means my point stands as well..... had I only known it was so easy to win an argument. Edited July 1, 2017 by Lahandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahandra Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) Yep. 5.0 pre 5.1 was an awesome time in the warzones, especially for alts. It was great. This is a fact, bolster was 250, the warzones were thriving, it happened, lots of us were there. It's not exactly disputable at this point. merovejec's assertion, on the other hand, is an opinion, one I have never heard anyone but him say, and seems unlikely to me. No... the only thing that isn't disputable, is that server pop's have been dropping steady since 4.0...... That's pvp and pve across the board. Don't go getting all holy about how the golden days of pvp, or lack thereof, was the only reason for the loss in subs.... lol Edited July 1, 2017 by Lahandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 If you are t1 then you really dont need to worry about using a command boost yet, the game will throw boxes at you for the full day or so before you hit t2 and then soon after that, t3 where you will be getting 14 per box. As for casual players though, why would it even matter? All command rank does it get you a chances at access to gear pieces to give a boost to the main gearing methods of operations and pvp. A casual player doesnt need BIS and so is most likely not attempting to gear fully. A casual player who plays PVP would still like to be competitive at PVP ... sort of what this whole topic is about. Thus putting everyone at the same level ensures this players gets an equally balanced and enjoyable playing experience when playing AGAINST their peers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 The irony being that I literally just did a PT tank from head to toe last night in 242's shy one implant..... lol..... Took a tad over 2 hours, and if I had plans to PVP with it, I would be off to the races......smh O'RLY? Care to explain how you did this? Enlighten the thread. Show how a new fresh 70 is going to get these 242's in 2 hours ... saying it is one thing, demonstrating it is another. And again, I simply say, if you can't earn credits quickly now?? I mean, is that a joke??? Sorry, I just don't know what to say to that...... I can earn 100 credits quickly, I can earn 1000 credits quickly. Stop just saying credits, your argument is flawed. State how many credits you need (i.e. how much the gear costs) and how long it takes you to get them to buy the gear. You are implying it's fast yet not actually supporting your statement at all. I call ********, prove me wrong. You made the statement that it's somehow an option for easily and speedily gearing now prove it. As has been said by many on this forum, the "grind" to 300 is pretty easy now...... And once you have one, you usually have a surplus of extra components you can slap in an alt's gear....... Easy != fast. I never said anyone truly enjoyed this system, but comparing it now to the state it was in when it launched is just ridiculous. The grind and gear drops when 5.0 launched were FAR more of a labor than they are now...... It's not like the GC system is going anywhere in the near future, so that argument is pointless atm, but it's a joke now compared to when it launched. Bolster to 250 ... yeah that was SUCH a grind and PVP was soooo bad. That is after all what I am effectively in favor of - removing PVP gearing or boolster everyone beyond BiS for PVP. 250 bolster was the best boost PVP has seen in this game in years and thus if it were permanent one has to conclude it would be beneficial overall for the game with the amount of players it would attract back or at the very least keep playing. Anyone who wants to argue that 250 bolster was actually driving people away ... talking out their ***. That's if you are an EXTREME casual..... If you're playing the game with any regularity, and especially if you do the 242's from PVE first, you could gear a toon in weeks...... But let's just say you're that EXTREME casual, and you do take months to min/max a toon..... Is that really that long in a yearly content cycle?? Is a three month grind for a complete casual too long in a 12 month expansion cycle???? lol Oh and "extreme" casual now is it? I wasn't aware that we had degrees of casual play. What is an extreme casual then? How much do they play a day or a week? Regardless yes it's too long, that EXTREME casual might just want to play PVP and due to stat imbalance chooses not to and goes play something else. Funny thing is your $15 per month and their $15 per month is the same to BWA ... you can play 100's of more hours than they but money in the pocket to BWA is the same. Keeping them here and playing is as important as keeping you and as it stands those players are being turned off MMOs for game where they can get similar experiences that is far more casual friendly. Not wanting to put the time into any grind at all seems to be a pretty common theme with you. I've literally got billions of credits ... (most of the time when I don't splurge heavily on cartel crates) and 1000's of CM items to sell. Credits are no issue for me and your ad hominem nonsense won't prove you argument for you. I could gear in a second with credits, no worries. However I am interested in the overall health of the game and what will attract more players to PVP. Thus any argument around credits and gearing needs to be taken i nthe context of what the average and casual players can do and afford. It's literally the only thing PVE has....... smh....... ops progression..... What, you think PVE guilds get together and schedule FP runs and dailies more often than ops???? lol Literally? You might want to look up the meaning of that word and what "player vs environment" actually means whilst you are at it because "op progression" is not the only PVE content in the game at all. Ah right...... another of these "how dare you make me work for my gear", "I deserve something for nothing" posts................ The all too familiar "If they don't give us what we want, we will quit", "MMO's are dying, the population is leaving, SWOTOR will be dead in months" mantra. Funny how that's been chanted for years now on the forums to no avail every time players threw a hissy fit over a change, yet the game is still here........ No it's a "I want the game to improve, be more profitable, have more people playing" posts - not a "buried my head in the sand and make up nonsense arguments with no supporting evidence" posts like what I've just read from yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) I haven't run a WZ in a couple of years so my opinion may not mean much, but if I were to jump back into it, anything to lessen the gear grind period would be helpful. Because as many know the grind in PvP is being the doormat everyone tramples over. Not a fun experience. So if bolster was at 246 it would at least make that period less of a dick punch. Edited July 1, 2017 by kodrac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Oh, BS. It didn't happen the last time bolster was at 250, it won't happen now either. Exactly, 250 bolster was awesome even I jumped into PVP and had fun as I had the time, good times. Pops were regular and most regular PVP players in fleet seemed to love how quickly PVP was popping comapred to previous. Many thought at first the 250 bolster was a new unannounced awesome change by BWA only to be let down when it was removed. I hear many people complain about no more 250 boslter, almost no one saying "yay" or complaining when it was in effect. It's cool though, people can have their imaginary situations and consequences and we can have the truth of the matter because we actually experienced the game with a "everyone is same level" game play in PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaladan Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 we all agree, 250 pvp period was so fun. even merc total opness was "handable" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli_Porter Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Exactly, 250 bolster was awesome even I jumped into PVP and had fun as I had the time, good times. Pops were regular and most regular PVP players in fleet seemed to love how quickly PVP was popping comapred to previous. Many thought at first the 250 bolster was a new unannounced awesome change by BWA only to be let down when it was removed. I hear many people complain about no more 250 boslter, almost no one saying "yay" or complaining when it was in effect.) Or maybe it was due to PvP being the highest CXP earning activity at the time. Nowadays HM FP's give 2 to 3 times as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ufasach Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) All you achieve by increasing bolster is making it more feasible to roll FOTM classes as they won't even need to be geared because Bioware will bolster them up to the level that the less favoured classes are even though that class took the time to grind out the gear. But hey go ahead and increase it Eric. You haven't seen a game breaking imbalance you haven't liked yet so why stop now? Edited July 2, 2017 by ufasach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCorazon Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I do not agree to bolster up to 248 ... I am sorry, i have spent a lot of time gearing to 248 and I mostly PvP, so essentially that means that those who didn't grind and put in no effort will be at the same level with me? Bolster to 242 will be more than enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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