Class Changes: Hatred Assassin / Serenity Shadow

[Evolixe]

As I said before, the problem is getting the other player or boss to that point. Aside from that many Specs can ignore the DoT and it shouldn't be like that. Hatred needs the ability to actually do better direct damage. Double strike is not that powerful and could be given a passive to boost its damage.

 

That could definitely be done alongside Serenity Strike at at least the same rate.

 

But that wouldn't be enough, unless you make them hit so hard you might as well rename Double Strike into Double Shadow Strike. We would need more than that.

 

And we should cancel these dot buffs. Because it is

The worst idea in a long sad history of bad ideas.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Evolixe

[kronovas]

That could definitely be done alongside Serenity Strike at at least the same rate.

 

But that wouldn't be enough, unless you make them hit so hard you might as well rename Double Strike into Double Shadow Strike. We would need more than that.

 

And we should cancel these dot buffs. Because it is

 

That would be ideal. The question remains whether or not the team in charge of this task will drop the DoT buff and try what we, the players, suggest.

[Evolixe]

That would be ideal. The question remains whether or not the team in charge of this task will drop the DoT buff and try what we, the players, suggest.

 

Given knowledge from the past, I sincerely doubt it.

[Torvai]

Given knowledge from the past, I sincerely doubt it.

 

Well, they've listened in the past. On ocassion.

[PrometheanDeath]

Since Hatred clearly lacks the single target Dps compared to deception by a giant gap, I thought about a key difference. Deception and even Darkness assassin use maul, while maul for a hatred sin costs to much. My thinking, why not make the application of demolish make your next maul cost 50% less? Not only will maul now cost the same as thrash, but increases single target Dps and doesn't add to the AoE potential that the spec already has. Even breaks away from adding more and more dot damage.

[Evolixe]

Since Hatred clearly lacks the single target Dps compared to deception by a giant gap, I thought about a key difference. Deception and even Darkness assassin use maul, while maul for a hatred sin costs to much. My thinking, why not make the application of demolish make your next maul cost 50% less? Not only will maul now cost the same as thrash, but increases single target Dps and doesn't add to the AoE potential that the spec already has. Even breaks away from adding more and more dot damage.

 

Because adding frontload damage to a dotspec is a terrible idea.

[PrometheanDeath]

Because adding frontload damage to a dotspec is a terrible idea.

Currently the "balanced" dot specs seem to be warriors (vengeance and annihilation), and they have a few burst moves rolled into their dot specs. Vengeance having Impale and hew, while anni having annihilate, vicious throw, and their proc dual saber throw. Just thought I'd help hatred fit the "EA ware" balance.

 

Granted Hatred is its own spec, putting the iconic maul that assassins know to hatred seems like a perfect fit for me at least.

Edited June 22, 2017 by PrometheanDeath

[Evolixe]

Currently the "balanced" dot specs seem to be warriors (vengeance and annihilation), and they have a few burst moves rolled into their dot specs. Vengeance having Impale and hew, while anni having annihilate, vicious throw, and their proc dual saber throw. Just thought I'd help hatred fit the "EA ware" balance.

 

Granted Hatred is its own spec, putting the iconic maul that assassins know to hatred seems like a perfect fit for me at least.

 

And we have Assassinate and Leeching Strike. Maul has no place here.

[Hombad]

And we have Assassinate and Leeching Strike. Maul has no place here.

 

To be fair, our hard hitters in Hatred are like a wet noodle vs. things like Impale, autocrit Corrosive Assault, and Annihilate.

[kronovas]

To be fair, our hard hitters in Hatred are like a wet noodle vs. things like Impale, autocrit Corrosive Assault, and Annihilate.

That's why this thread is so important! The point of all this is to make it clear that Hatred needs 2 or 3 hard hitting skills for some meaningful burst damage.

[invertioN]

And we have Assassinate and Leeching Strike. Maul has no place here.

 

Go back to old times with maul proc and no noobing strike.

Pls bioware

[Evolixe]

Go back to old times with maul proc and no noobing strike.

Pls bioware

 

I kind of like Leeching Strike tbh. But it could heal for more.

And the way it heals for for exactly the same amount as it does damage kind of makes it bad for healing on heavy armor classes and the like. The heal should ignore that ****.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Evolixe

[Warforever]

The dot spread needs addressing, its too narrow, the issue is FiB/death field should spread dots (as it did) this would make it very attractive to PvPers. It fell out of favor quite a lot over the years due to FiB and death field no longer spreading dots as the sage/sorc equivalent does, then reducing the AoE of the spread, some consistency please. The increased overall mobility on classes and abilities in recent expansions means that a wider dot spread AoE is more than needed for PvP. Overall not bad changes.

 

I have thought this for soooo long. Im like, our sister class (madness) uses DF to spread its dots, why the hell doesnt Hatred. Its stupid that Lacerate does that and doesnt make any damn sense.

[PrometheanDeath]

I have thought this for soooo long. Im like, our sister class (madness) uses DF to spread its dots, why the hell doesnt Hatred. Its stupid that Lacerate does that and doesnt make any damn sense.

 

While death field spreading our dots sounds cool and all, hatred is actually better of spreading dots with lacerate. Not only can we spread dots multiple times with the introduction to new adds/targets, but if we miss spreading our dots to a target with a misplaced death field, we don't have to wait the CD to finally spread again. And the fact that we can keep our dots applied to all targets with little delay and without the physical use of the dots again is why having a no CD ability to spread dots help more in the long run. Thus giving hatred a higher Dps by having lacerate spread our dots.

Edited June 23, 2017 by PrometheanDeath

[Evolixe]

That's why this thread is so important! The point of all this is to make it clear that Hatred needs 2 or 3 hard hitting skills for some meaningful burst damage.

 

What... no. We don't need ANY burst damage in Hatred. That's what Deception is for.

 

You can't have the best of all worlds. Not only does that not make sense from a design point of view, there is also no way to balance that properly. You either have burst and reduced consistent damage output between those burst windows or you have lots of damage all the time but without any peaks.

 

Each has its own advantages. You don't need burst to kill stuff if you have enough flat-out damage.

[kronovas]

What... no. We don't need ANY burst damage in Hatred. That's what Deception is for.

 

You can't have the best of all worlds. Not only does that not make sense from a design point of view, there is also no way to balance that properly. You either have burst and reduced consistent damage output between those burst windows or you have lots of damage all the time but without any peaks.

 

Each has its own advantages. You don't need burst to kill stuff if you have enough flat-out damage.

 

I propose consistent damage. I believe I phrased it wrong, what I mean to say by 'burst' is the burst window. Also, in reference to the skills that deal direct damage that are in need of a buff in damage. A buff that is meaningful but not OP.

Edited June 23, 2017 by kronovas

[Evolixe]

And what I meant was any sort of Front loaded damage.

 

Anything that does more than 10k damage instantly doesn't belong in the Hatred Discipline.

[kronovas]

I'm not saying it needs skills that do over 10k but it does need skills that do a min of 8-9k constantly. As you mentioned beforehand, deception is designed for burst. Hatred needs to deal a bit more direct damage in conjunction with the DoTs. A 10%-15% buff may take care of that. Edited June 23, 2017 by kronovas

[Rion_Starkiller]

I still want my phase walk back. That's the one class change or *buff* I can get behind.

[FlameYOL]

I still want my phase walk back. That's the one class change or *buff* I can get behind.

 

I second that.

[Rion_Starkiller]

I second that.

 

Great! Now we both sound like that guy that asks for the old heat seeker missile animation back

[AdjeYo]

I really hope you're considering putting dotspread back on Death Field. I can somewhat understand not wanting the Dotspread on Death Field when it was 30m range, but since it's a 10m range ability now, it would just be nice to get dotspread back on it imo

[Evolixe]

I really hope you're considering putting dotspread back on Death Field. I can somewhat understand not wanting the Dotspread on Death Field when it was 30m range, but since it's a 10m range ability now, it would just be nice to get dotspread back on it imo

 

How about no?

[XakTsaroth]

I really hope you're considering putting dotspread back on Death Field. I can somewhat understand not wanting the Dotspread on Death Field when it was 30m range, but since it's a 10m range ability now, it would just be nice to get dotspread back on it imo

 

Dotspread on Death Field means you have to wait to dotspread vs the useful ability to do so whenever. Easier to keep dots refreshed the way it is now.

[realleaftea]

Firstly, the parse you linked actually shows Eradicate as doing MORE net damage. It's not about damage per use, but about total damage dealt (i.e. why Lightning Bolt as a Lightning Sorc is a bigger source of damage than say Lightning Flash, even though it hits less). It's because Eradicate is used MORE.

And that doesn't matter at all.

 

To quote myself:

 

In addition, I'd love to shift the 2s immobilization to Eradicate and move the 5% force damage debuff to Creeping Terror. Creeping Terror currently deals the highest amount of damage (~20k on average) and doesn't really need an extra bonus. Eradicate on contrast would be a way better candidate.

 

My whole post was about changing the cooldown of skills. So the total amount of damage contributed to a parsing result doesn't matter at all. If a Marksmanship Ambush would deal 100k damage but would have a 60s cooldown, the overall contribution might still be the same, but the skill would be vastly overpowered.

Edited June 30, 2017 by realleaftea