I never said DoTs should hit that amount. I was referring to front damage. And by hard skills nothing that hits naturally over 10k. Ergo, with the changes BIO is making that would void that need as many skills are getting nerfed.

That is indeed true, however, most PvP players just want to spam buttons and win. Most don't even know what they're supposed to do on certain maps or to protect a node or shout for incoming enemies. So to expect for everyone to fully understand their class is a bit daunt. Moreover, for them to use CC correctly is a hassle too. Damage increase may help but that won't make you a skilled player. The current class balance is brining about a ton of nerfs in HoT, direct Heals, DoT, and direct damage for many specs so the idea of boosting any class beyond the DPS goal will only bring a huge nerf that would probably hinder Hatred even more.

I'm not saying it needs skills that do over 10k but it does need skills that do a min of 8-9k constantly. As you mentioned beforehand, deception is designed for burst. Hatred needs to deal a bit more direct damage in conjunction with the DoTs. A 10%-15% buff may take care of that.

I propose consistent damage. I believe I phrased it wrong, what I mean to say by 'burst' is the burst window. Also, in reference to the skills that deal direct damage that are in need of a buff in damage. A buff that is meaningful but not OP.

That's why this thread is so important! The point of all this is to make it clear that Hatred needs 2 or 3 hard hitting skills for some meaningful burst damage.

That would be ideal. The question remains whether or not the team in charge of this task will drop the DoT buff and try what we, the players, suggest.

As I said before, the problem is getting the other player or boss to that point. Aside from that many Specs can ignore the DoT and it shouldn't be like that. Hatred needs the ability to actually do better direct damage. Double strike is not that powerful and could be given a passive to boost its damage.

Both skills can use a 20% damage buff. The point is to bring the class within NiM damage. Even with a damage-wise buff, Hatred still needs a defensive passive that reduces damage by 6 - 9%. No one wants to be squishy... The proposed finisher buff is a great idea. The deal is getting the target low in health faster.

The real issue isn't power management as we can adapt as players. The point is that the Spec is needs a meaningful DPS increase and if possible a way to shorten the time it takes to setup. And on a personal level, I'm against the whole "Glass Cannon" idea. No class in this game is really a glass anything... So why gimp ONLY one Spec defensively?

Aftet revewing Bant's numbers the supposed DPS on paper is great. However, it does not account for lack of defensives to survive. The Spec lacks the ability to take punishment and the strength to directly impact DPS in short burst windows. We should be able to setup in 3 seconds not 8 or 10... A glass cannon is only useful if it is a cannon but at this point Hatred is just glass.

Hatred is in dire need of getting those global cool downs removed, namely, the skills that place the DoT. Every other skill should remain as is. It needs a straight forward damage buff and a means to place DoTs rapidly. The spec can also use an upgrade to it defensive capability. There are specs in game that are totally whack... you either wreck everyone or you're the one getting wrecked. A crazy buff isn't what is needed, instead a creative solution to bring this spec to a NiM level.

I checked maul again... it seems people are confusing the passive effect Deception has with it. Deception Sin's maul reduces armor by 20%, however, Hatred Sin's maul does nothing more than a basic hit. If it had the effect everyone would use it. Furthermore, melee classes are amazing if the 'player' knows what he / she is doing. Melee players cannot stand still and absorb all incoming damage. I would say that with all of the updates to make classes mobile that was taken care of. Sure Sins lost a great skill and it was made exclusive to Sorcs... Learn the mechanics. Hatred does need a DPS boost no matter what many people claim. I have noticed over years that players that lack skill and knowledge about the class they picked will slap the OP label when they cannot beat a certain class by spamming keys.

A 5% increase isn't all that much. I do agree on the fact that we are lacking some damage elsewhere to be able to do 1 v 1 more smoothly.

Indeed. We all want one of our favorite specs to raise from the ashses! We all have different tones in which we express ourselves. I wouldn't mind having maul no longer require a position but if that turns into a huge NERF later down the road because people can't live with this Spec doing decent damage then I rather get a solid 10% increase in damage.

There are several debates about it, one of them can be found at http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=923354