Class Changes: Hatred Assassin / Serenity Shadow

[olagatonjedi]

What part of Parsely are you even looking at?

My Deception Sin is doing 14.2k DPS 17 seconds in.

 

Good luck doing that with a Hatred Sin. Or even getting halfway close.

 

You aren't going to take a Hatred Sin for your Styrak burst phase knowing that a Dec sin is 50% more effective at it while also doing more overall damage AND taking less damage too.

At least ONE of those factors should be in Hatreds favour, being the overall damage one.

 

But untill then, you're not going to take a spec in there that can only make the timers by the skin of its teeth, given that everybody else gives it their all as well. That is called having to be carried.

 

My initial question:

What Op boss fight do you need burst dps that cant be accomplished via a dot rotation from Hatred? I honestly cant think of a fight or phase that cant be accomplished even with todays Hatred spec..

 

The answer I got:

Calphayus NiM, Revan HM (droids), Terror NiM (whole fight), Styrak NiM (manifestations), Brontes NiM (burn phase, robot phase), Colossal Monolith HM (too squishy), I can also go on.,

 

The data I have provided from parses shows that a Hatred sin is capable of meeting the required "burst" dps needed for these specific phases of these specific fights, as well as the sustained DPS over an entire fight. If you choose not to take a Hatred sin, that is your groups choice, and rightly so, for other reasons that you mentioned.

 

However, I would also be interested to know if you run your NiM raids without the NiM crystal? If so, it seems a bit contradictory that you would purposely cripple your attempt to successfully clear the NiM raid by not taking using the crystal, but you are against taking a DPS class that is capable of clearing it just fine, but offers a little bit more challenge. If this is the case, your argument holds very little merit, because you are choosing to call the Hatred spec inefficient when it very well could be that your skill and/or groups skill is not efficient enough to clear NiM with ANY class available.

 

Don't misunderstand my argument. Could Hatred benefit from a DPS boost, whether sustained OR burst? Of course, as the parses/theorycrafting fall behind other specs. However, just like with any MMO, flashpoint, ops fight, there are varying levels of difficulty that are provided to it's players. Perhaps different specs provided an additional challenge to the game that is being missed here. In the NiM-clearing community, there is an overall praise for players who have completed NiM ops without using the crystal. Why wouldn't there be similar praise for completing a NiM ops with the less-optimal spec's as well, to provide additional challenge to an already challenging end-game content?

[Evolixe]

A class is not viable if it can just clear the content while requiring an entire raid team to cater to it.

Viability comes from it being a good, or at the very least, sensible choice.

 

Hatred is neither. It's not good and it doesn't make sense to take one.

If you do, and someone makes a mistake (it happens to the best of us) you get punished much more harshly than if you have a Dec sin.

 

The whole crystal thing is a void argument as well. Aside from the fact that it requires a lot of effort to get, you could comapre the argument to "But hatred sins are perfectly viable. Just take 3 snipers along with".

[olagatonjedi]

A class is not viable if it can just clear the content while requiring an entire raid team to cater to it.

Viability comes from it being a good, or at the very least, sensible choice.

 

Hatred is neither. It's not good and it doesn't make sense to take one.

If you do, and someone makes a mistake (it happens to the best of us) you get punished much more harshly than if you have a Dec sin.

 

The whole crystal thing is a void argument as well. Aside from the fact that it requires a lot of effort to get, you could comapre the argument to "But hatred sins are perfectly viable. Just take 3 snipers along with".

How does the raid need to "cater" or "carry" it when the numbers show that it is more than capable of clearing the same content as other classes/specs?

 

You don't need a Ferrari to go to the grocery store when a Prius can get there in just as little time.

[Evolixe]

How does the raid need to "cater" or "carry" it when the numbers show that it is more than capable of clearing the same content as other classes/specs?

 

You don't need a Ferrari to go to the grocery store when a Prius can get there in just as little time.

 

Except if the prius has a battery failure and the ferrari has to come pick you up and drive double the speedlimit to still get you back in time for your football match.

[olagatonjedi]

Except if the prius has a battery failure and the ferrari has to come pick you up and drive double the speedlimit to still get you back in time for your football match.

And the Ferrari burns all its gas early by revving its engine, so it's stuck on the side of the road while the prius motors right past.

[Evolixe]

And the Ferrari burns all its gas early by revving its engine, so it's stuck on the side of the road while the prius motors right past.

 

Past? It wont be anywhere near for an hour to come. And that is exactly the problem.

 

Your analogy is flawed. You can twist it and turn it any way you like just so it suits you. I can do the same.

However, my standpoint actually makes sense and yours doesn't.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Evolixe

[olagatonjedi]

Past? It wont be anywhere near for an hour to come. And that is exactly the problem.

 

Your analogy is flawed. You can twist it and turn it any way you like just so it suits you. I can do the same.

However, my standpoint actually makes sense and yours doesn't.

You're acting as though the DPS difference between the two specs is insurmountable? From one fight to the next, Hatred could be higher than Deception. According to the top Hatred parse and your personal parse, the difference is less than 450dps, hardly game-breaking. And the burst advantage was also nowhere close to the difference you're making it seem.

 

You're trying to make it seem as though you're playing an entirely different game when you spec hatred. The DPS potential is there, are you skilled enough to provide it? It doesn't look like it, as the way you talk makes it seem like Hatred is going 6k DPS still, while Deception is parsing 14k all the time.

 

Some soul searching is in line, rather than whining and crying about a slightly more difficult build.

Edited June 17, 2017 by olagatonjedi

[Evolixe]

You're acting as though the DPS difference between the two specs is insurmountable? From one fight to the next, Hatred could be higher than Deception. According to the top Hatred parse and your personal parse, the difference is less than 450dps, hardly game-breaking. And the burst advantage was also nowhere close to the difference you're making it seem.

 

You're trying to make it seem as though you're playing an entirely different game when you spec hatred. The DPS potential is there, are you skilled enough to provide it? It doesn't look like it, as the way you talk makes it seem like Hatred is going 6k DPS still, while Deception is parsing 14k all the time.

 

Some soul searching is in line, rather than whining and crying about a slightly more difficult build.

 

To a raidleader it is. Nobody is going to take you seriously when you tell a NiM group you want to main a Hatred sin into their raids. But no, Hatred cannot be higher than Deception anywhere. You are very welcome to try. And if you think Hatred is more complicated than Deception then I guess you're either new to the class or you just don't know how to play Deception correctly. You try to make out Hatred as if it's a really hard spec to play when its really not.

 

The fact of the matter is that Hatred is a very fragile Discipline in comparison to Deception with extremely mediocre output to show for it. Just because it COULD be taken on fights if all the stars align and nobody makes any mistakes, doesn't mean it's a good choice.

 

Right now it offers no benefit, only concessions. And that's why it needs change.

[PhantomWarlock]

While the changes in dps increase seem promising, I still think there could be some work done on the force management of this spec. Especially compared to Deception (but also other DoT Specs like Madness or Annihilation), Hatred is burning through it's Force a lot faster. The Force-restoration bonus of Leeching Strike seems promising, altough 4 Force restored per DoT might be a little to little.

[Hombad]

A class is not viable if it can just clear the content while requiring an entire raid team to cater to it.

Viability comes from it being a good, or at the very least, sensible choice.

 

Hatred is neither. It's not good and it doesn't make sense to take one.

If you do, and someone makes a mistake (it happens to the best of us) you get punished much more harshly than if you have a Dec sin.

 

The whole crystal thing is a void argument as well. Aside from the fact that it requires a lot of effort to get, you could comapre the argument to "But hatred sins are perfectly viable. Just take 3 snipers along with".

 

So much yes to this.

[Hombad]

To a raidleader it is. Nobody is going to take you seriously when you tell a NiM group you want to main a Hatred sin into their raids. But no, Hatred cannot be higher than Deception anywhere. You are very welcome to try. And if you think Hatred is more complicated than Deception then I guess you're either new to the class or you just don't know how to play Deception correctly. You try to make out Hatred as if it's a really hard spec to play when its really not.

 

The fact of the matter is that Hatred is a very fragile Discipline in comparison to Deception with extremely mediocre output to show for it. Just because it COULD be taken on fights if all the stars align and nobody makes any mistakes, doesn't mean it's a good choice.

 

Right now it offers no benefit, only concessions. And that's why it needs change.

 

Also so much yes to this. I don't know where the guy who is arguing with you is getting his data saying that Hatred can do a similar output to Deception in a window of 17 seconds LOL

[Hombad]

You're acting as though the DPS difference between the two specs is insurmountable? From one fight to the next, Hatred could be higher than Deception. According to the top Hatred parse and your personal parse, the difference is less than 450dps, hardly game-breaking. And the burst advantage was also nowhere close to the difference you're making it seem.

 

You're trying to make it seem as though you're playing an entirely different game when you spec hatred. The DPS potential is there, are you skilled enough to provide it? It doesn't look like it, as the way you talk makes it seem like Hatred is going 6k DPS still, while Deception is parsing 14k all the time.

 

Some soul searching is in line, rather than whining and crying about a slightly more difficult build.

 

Okay you come in an call me out on my 'poor ability to play Sin' and insinuate Evo is in the same boat, on the basis of some bogus data you have from parsely. You use this 'data' as evidence for the fact that Hatred is indeed viable and can dish out similar amounts of damage in a small window. Let's take a look at that data from parsely shall we?

 

Top parse from Deception/Infiltration: http://parsely.io/parser/view/287348/0

 

Total DPS: 10539 dps.

 

Dps at 14 seconds in: 13987.92 dps.

 

 

Top parse from Hatred/Serenity: http://parsely.io/parser/view/277554/7

 

Total DPS: 9878.32

 

DPS at 14 seconds in: 9931.57 dps

 

Thus, NOT a '450 dps difference', its closer to double that. This isn't to mention the extended execute phase of a dummy parse which typical burst windows in actual fights don't necessarily possess.

 

What is giving you your information??? Since you are going off of hypotheticals (and not experience) I'd assume you have next to no actual NiM experience or else you'd have drawn on that (and found your opinion wrong).

 

So from the data that YOU YOURSELF are basing your flawed logic on, we see an almost 4.1k dps discrepancy in damage done over the first 14 seconds. That's almost 57 000 LESS damage done. That's pretty alarming for a burst window!

 

This is NOT to mention that 1. the windows of burst for Hatred are far less frequent than Deception (as it has its DOUBLE recklessness up every minute, and phantom stride every 30 seconds for a far greater dps buff than Hatred enjoys), and 2. it assumes that Hatred is perfectly able to dot the target immediately in spite of lag, fight mechanics etc.

 

OH and another thing about insinuating neither Evo nor I can play the class. I'm pretty sure Evo has full 26/26 AT TIER NiM clears as a sin main, I myself have 25/26 NiM clears at tier. I regard Evo as one of the best dps sins playing this game currently. I like to think I'm up there as well (haven't been playing sin for a couple of months as team needs me on Mara, or we'd be running double sin dps).

 

I have tried, really hard to make Hatred work. I theory crafted a 120 gcd optimal Hatred rotation catering to every single proc, ability, dot, and cooldown (despite the prevailing belief of a 'priority' system as a rotation is unworkable).

 

I've tried really hard to make Hatred work in NiM currently.

 

And, with all this under my belt, as Evo said, Deception is BY FAR the more difficult spec to play, and the difference isn't even close. If you don't understand why go to my Dulfy guide for Deception.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Hombad
typo

[Hombad]

You're acting as though the DPS difference between the two specs is insurmountable? From one fight to the next, Hatred could be higher than Deception.

 

 

Oh and I forgot to mention: let's talk about the fights where Hatred could ACTUALLY outperform Deception. I'll start with the HM only modes, then move to NiM. I've underlined the fights which I believe are significant/true progression fights.

EV HM:

 

Annihilator: nope, all single target damage, with a shortened execute window. Deception wins.

Gharj: Nope, especially given that Deception has the capacity to remain on platform for a greater period of time due to DcDs and comparable AOE burst.

Pylons: LOL no.

Council: Hatred does have a small advantage as Deception can't Maul.

Soa: Due to the numerous burst windows, and large forced downtimes of the fight, I'd say Deception has a pretty significant advantage.

 

KP HM:

 

Bonethrasher: Due to single target uptime, Deception would have the edge. The small aoe phase doesn't allow Hatred to out damage Deception.

Twin boss: Hatred maaaaay outdamage Deception due to its ability to dotspread.

Foreman: Deception strongly outdamages Hatred due to the small aoe burst windows (which favour lacerate spam over dot spread) and the significant single target uptime.

Puzzle Boss: basically entirely single target, so Deception definitely wins.

Karagga: Basically single target the entire time, with the droids last only 1-2 GCDS and staggered in their spawn. Not to mention that, if reflecting, Deception has the ability to reflect more due to its high durability. So I'd say Deception wins here.

 

ToS HM:

 

Malaphar: Either spec can do well, depending on how much you want to aoe/dot spread. Hatred will edge out Deception if it plays recklessly and dot spreads with abandon, but Deception's durability means that it can last longer in the DPS buffing circle. Close call.

Sword Squadron: Hatred manages to get closer to Deception due to its ability to double dot the walkers, and will do similar/greater damage IF your group is bad and can't quickly remove the debuff from Unit 1. Otherwise, Deception would win.

Underlurker: Deception hands down wins this one.

Commanders: Deception hands down wins this one.

Revan: Deception has far more utility, and is far better on this fight. The only time that Hatred has any edge is in the first phase of first floor, if you repeatedly get the tether/corruption and your uptime is shot. Definitely Deception as the winner here.

 

Ravagers HM:

 

Sparky: Either spec can work here, but Hatred will win depending on the extent of AOE fluff.

Bulo: Not much aoe to speak of, and DPS uptime is reduced by fragility during the mass barrage phase. Deception wins out here.

Torque: An interesting comparison. Hatred will do well if focussing on dot spreading as efficiently as possible to all the turrets, but its incredible fragility is a massive massive liability.

Master Blaster: I actually tried using Hatred for this fight to help ranged dps out on Master. Deception wins out, but only slightly, assuming both specs are played as close to optimally as possible.

Coratanni: Both specs are pretty even, but this fight is a joke anyway.

 

GoTM HM:

 

Tyth: Deception wins hands down, especially during the burn phase. It also benefits far more from rapid target swaps on-call for killing the droids (due to the phantom stride resets).

 

So, from all the HM only ops, we have 1 key fight where Deception wins out, and 1 key fight where Hatred wins out. Otherwise, score is: 14 to Deception, 5 Hatred (ties give 1 to both).

 

ONTO THE NIM!

 

EC NiM:

 

Drouks: Hatred could double dot, but it's risky. Deception definitely wins out here, especially due to its durability, and ability to reflect more.

Tanks: Hatred's ability to double dot requires some positional adaptation depending on group, and it HUGELY suffers in the add phases. Deception wins.

Minefield: Deception wins. Fight consists of many small burst windows.

Kephess: Deception wins. Better ability to tank adds if necessary, limited opportunities for aoe. High frequency of target swaps and burst windows required.

 

Thus, 4/4 EC NiM Deception wins out.

 

TFB NiM:

 

Writhing: Either spec can do fine, but it's a question of aoe fluffing really.

Dread Guards: Specs are somewhat even in first two phases, but Deception wins out during the Kel'sara phase and when adds arrive.

Op9. Deception wins hands down.

Kephess: Deception wins hands down due to the exaggerated burst windows.

Terror: Deception is an incredible spec in its own right for this fight due to the ability to cheese every slam with force speed or shroud by virtue of its immense durability. Deception wins hands down.

 

Thus, 4-5/5 TFB NiM Deception wins out.

 

SNV NiM:

 

Dash: Either spec can do well, Hatred wins out with more AOE fluff. If the group is struggling with Dash's HP bar (i.e. single target DPS), then Deception will be preferable.

Titan: Hatred will win in terms of the AoE, but is definitely weaker in the single target phases.

Thrasher: Deception wins hands down, better single target DPS on ground, and better FAST add killing up on top.

Oasis City: Deception wins hands down.

Olok: Gap is closer between specs, but Deception still wins out, especially if dot spread is limited.

Warlords: Deception is definitely preferred due to its ability to outdamage Hatred single target (this isn't HM, burst matters a lot on final phase).

Styrak: Deception, as I have repeatedly argued, and shown with calculations, is FAR better suited to this fight, especially in relation to the manifestations.

 

5-7/7 SNV NiM shows Deception is preferred.

 

DP NiM:

 

Bestia: Hatred is better for this due to its dot spreading capabilties.

Tyrans: Hatred is too squishy and lacks both burst and sustained dps. Deception wins.

Calphayus: Unless cheesing with 3 in one side, Hatred lacks the required burst in both the orb side and the defiler side. Deception is strongly preferred.

Raptus: Hatred lacks the burst for the DPS challenge (not that failing it matters unless you have weak healers), so Deception would be preferred.

Council: Either spec will work fine, but Hatred will take much more damage and so is a riskier choice.

 

3-4/5 DP NiM, Deception wins out.

 

DF NiM:

 

Nefra: Deception obviously wins due to there being only single target damage.

Draxus: If you have strong healers and a good comp, Hatred is better.

Grobby: Hatred will win by fluff, Deception will deal more damage to the boss.

Corruptor: Both specs work fine, Hatred does more aoe, Deception is stronger in the final phase.

Brontes: Hatred fails massively on this. Will really struggle on the robot phase, take bucket loads of damage and put a big strain on healers, and performs worse in final burn and is likely to die earlier.

 

Although Hatred is competitive on several fights, 2/5 DF NiM sees Deception at an advantage.

 

That's it! So, 7/26 NiM sees Hatred as competitive or slightly advantaged (there are only a couple of fights which see Hatred as substantially advantaged).

 

Again, no idea where you are getting your arguments from.

[invertioN]

Nice wall of text.

Hatred is garbage tier at the moment, simple as that.

[Evolixe]

Yeah right? I don't even always play Hatred on Bestia because I can do the same or better damage in Deception.

[olagatonjedi]

Again......What Op boss fight do you need burst dps that cant be accomplished via a dot rotation from Hatred? After having two people on the forum post multiple times comparing deception to hatred instead of answering the question and providing support, there doesn't seem to be any reason why Hatred can't successfully perform at NiM level difficulty.

[Evolixe]

The point isn't that it can't. The point is that it won't. Because nobody will take you because of how bad it is.

[olagatonjedi]

The point isn't that it can't. The point is that it won't. Because nobody will take you because of how bad it is.

Ahh, Evolixe, the self-imposed ambassador of all NiM raid leaders and sins continues at it again. Fact is you don't speak for everyone, so unless you can give legitimate proof, you are speaking strictly from personal belief and no more. I am a NiM raid leader that takes Hatred sins and has had NiM success. There are other NiM raid leaders who have taken Hatred sins with them. Creating a blanket statement about how NiM raid leaders run their operation just shows how much you don't know about the potential of different specs.

 

Maybe you choose to run easy-mode NiM ops where you hand pick only the top parsing specs with the best survivability. Not everyone thinks like you. Some people welcome a challenge. You are welcome to do so, but don't come here telling others that they can't do something just because you can't.

Edited June 18, 2017 by olagatonjedi

[Hombad]

Ahh, Evolixe, the self-imposed ambassador of all NiM raid leaders and sins continues at it again. Fact is you don't speak for everyone, so unless you can give legitimate proof, you are speaking strictly from personal belief and no more. I am a NiM raid leader that takes Hatred sins and has had NiM success. There are other NiM raid leaders who have taken Hatred sins with them. Creating a blanket statement about how NiM raid leaders run their operation just shows how much you don't know about the potential of different specs.

 

Maybe you choose to run easy-mode NiM ops where you hand pick only the top parsing specs with the best survivability. Not everyone thinks like you. Some people welcome a challenge. You are welcome to do so, but don't come here telling others that they can't do something just because you can't.

 

The problem with your opinion fundamentally is that, when dealing with the hardest content in the game, which is inaccessible to the VAST majority of the player base, it's not about a question of 'can.'

 

In 4.0, could you kill revan with a 6 operative double sin tank group? Yes, it's lit did it and have uploaded a video.

 

Does that mean EVERY group should consider taking 6 operatives onto Revan HM? God no.

 

Fact of the matter is, if you had actually read the wall of text I gave (sorry), you'd see that 3 of the hardest fights in the game currently (Terror NiM, Brontes NiM, Styrak NiM) don't accommodate Hatred, or if your raid group is masochistic and decides to bring a Hatred sin (i.e. you), you'd have to build a group around it to shore up its weaknesses.

 

Don't insult Evo's nim ability...just go to his Youtube channel to see his kill vids for Brontes etc.

 

Does/should one 'welcome a challenge' on content which only a handful of raid groups WORLDWIDE have been able to down (e.g. AT TIER gatecrasher)? Not unless you are one of those groups who has the content on farm. It's really silly to bring down your raid group if you aren't at the level of It's Lit in pursuit of 'a challenge' and don't have SWTOR raids on farm for any difficulty.

 

So, basically, given Hatred's substantial current weaknesses, unless you are in a group which is clearing that stuff on farm, there is no reason to add an additional 'challenge' to your raid group while trying to down/progress through that stuff, it's totally illogical.

[Hombad]

Again......What Op boss fight do you need burst dps that cant be accomplished via a dot rotation from Hatred? After having two people on the forum post multiple times comparing deception to hatred instead of answering the question and providing support, there doesn't seem to be any reason why Hatred can't successfully perform at NiM level difficulty.

 

Literally gave a list of every fight in the game bud. Showing fights where Hatred is subtantially weaker/barely viable.

[FerkWork]

I like how this thread has literally devolved into the Bring the player not class meme. Hatred DPS is mediocre and it's defensives are non existent. You don't get a medal for wasting people's time bringing a meme spec. No one gives a flip if people killed x boss with a Hatred Sin especially when you can just overgear most of the stuff atm and have other specs carry. The fact that people are comparing NiM Crystals to bringing non meme specs is hilarious. Congrats for not cheating? Congrats for wasting people's time? And it's still a meme.

 

 

I found this quote about Non BH on Revan in 3.0 by a member of Zorz to be very relevant about this concept of bringing underpowered specs because it makes delusional people feel somehow better:

 

"we have killed it with only 4/8 BHs but it's all sort of.....pointless, I mean you're just making the boss harder for no other reason save for personal bragging rights. Do what's best for the raid. EDIT: I do agree that the fight shouldn't be so tilted toward one class, I was more commenting on people thinking different comps were more pure or something. The only difference is "ohhhhh, this class loses 8GCDS on floor three, and that class doesn't, it's so interesting to watch him lose uptime"[/Quote]

Edited June 19, 2017 by FerkWork

[Evolixe]

Maybe you choose to run easy-mode NiM ops where you hand pick only the top parsing specs with the best survivability. Not everyone thinks like you. Some people welcome a challenge. You are welcome to do so, but don't come here telling others that they can't do something just because you can't.

 

By the very nature of Maining the Assassin class fullfilling a DPS role that argument already doesn't make any sense.

 

People don't even want to take Deception Sins to their raids because Marauders are just plain better.

The only reason I get to raid with it is because I'm pretty good at it.

 

Don't worry, I'd destroy every Assassin you know at Hatred on a boss if I tried.

I just choose not to be an excessive liability to my raid group.

And I can hardly blame the group for having that same mentality.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Evolixe

[olagatonjedi]

Once again, my argument is NOT about what class is better, which you obviously are hung up on discussing.

 

My question is regard what ops/fights the Hatred spec is absolutely, positively incapable of maintaining the necessary DPS both throughout the fight and/or during a specific phase of a fight. Whether the fight caters to Hatred or not is irrelevant in my question.

 

From all data provided from parses and understanding of the mechanics and time frames of each phase of each fight, Hatred is capable of any fight, without being carried because it is capable of meeting the necessary burst DPS in specific phases where burst DPS is needed (albeit less than a true burst spec), as well as meeting the overall necessary DPS for the entire fight.

 

Your ideas of what "necessary burst dps" and "carried" are skewed because of YOUR expectations of a NIM DPS class, not based on the minimum requirements of a NIM fight. If you truly get down to the numbers of it, Hatred does not need to be carried because it meets all the dps requirements to successfully fulfill its role. This means that if 4 hatred sins were brought to a nim raid, and all 4 met the minimum dps requirement for the mechanics of the fight, they would have a legitimate chance to kill it, assuming they follow the other mechanics. Do higher DPS classes help make up for the lesser (but completely capable) dps provided by Hatred? Yes, but that does not mean they "carried" the hatred sin.

 

Scenario - If the average minimum dps requirement for a fight is 5k, and everyone does 5k, but 1 dps does 9k, the 9k dps didnt carry anything. He/she just did more dps. Good for them.

Edited June 19, 2017 by olagatonjedi

[invertioN]

Well if it makes you feel good to do less dps then that's your problem now isn't it. And in a lot of cases killing something faster is better because it makes the life of the whole raid easier.

 

Since we are not talking about changing you to another class but comparing 2 sin specs, there is no excuse to play Hatred for the simple reason that Deception does better burst and sustained damage.

 

Main problem being that the sustained is significantly better so that it makes it stupid to main;y play Hatred.

 

Also, if you want to prove someone wrong the best thing to do is show your parses where you do competitive damage as Hatred. Thanks in advance. (jk I know it's not gonna happen)

[olagatonjedi]

Well if it makes you feel good to do less dps then that's your problem now isn't it. And in a lot of cases killing something faster is better because it makes the life of the whole raid easier.

 

Since we are not talking about changing you to another class but comparing 2 sin specs, there is no excuse to play Hatred for the simple reason that Deception does better burst and sustained damage.

 

Main problem being that the sustained is significantly better so that it makes it stupid to main;y play Hatred.

 

Also, if you want to prove someone wrong the best thing to do is show your parses where you do competitive damage as Hatred. Thanks in advance. (jk I know it's not gonna happen)

Im not trying to prove that hatred is as great as deception, and its not a problem, imo. Like many games, there are varying difficulty levels. I just view the difference/added difficulty as a challenge. Im not the only one who feels this way either, though I may be the only one who posts it on the forums.