Server Merge Discussion Thread

[Icykill_]

Did I miss something or why is server merging and the problems it causes discussed instead of cross server queuing for all group activities in the game? It's a far more elegant and long term solution.

 

Because Keith did podcast interview recently where he categorically stated that cross server wasn't possible and would never happen.

 

http://badfeelingpodcast.com/audio/podcasts/episode_162_final.mp3

 

There's the link

Edited July 31, 2017 by Icykill_

[omaan]

Cross-server is not happening so I guess you have your answer.

 

The problem is we don't even know wether server merges will happen... they continue to say "we need more info" or ignoring this issue for quite a long time.

[robertthebard]

Of Course i saw it, it is quoted in my main message, however look how much time they needed no answer to us! Keith did it only recently though this topic was highlighted months ago (ignoring player's demand which were made YEARs ago). Apparently devs are trying to ignore this issue and stating vague answers, telling us that they "need more time to think". Every time devs said "we need more time to think/discuss/research/etc" actually meant it is not going to happen. Time to make them a reminder, such threads will appear time-to-time believe me, thats what swtor needs

 

I'll tell you what:

 

1. You pay for my additional character slots, if servers where I have multiple characters are merged.

2. You research available names for me to use if said merger happens.

3. You decorate my SHs to where they are now, 4 at 100% and one just getting warmed up.

4. Getting the trend here? I saw a video about this on youtube, and the poster of said video said "People need to be ready to make sacrifices".

 

You make the sacrifices, I already have. I have sacrificed my time leveling alts on three servers, decorating SHs and securing names. If I wanted all my eggs in one basket, as it were, I would have all my characters on one server. I sure don't need you insisting that this is what's good for me. You don't know me, I don't think, and therefore have no grounds on which to claim you know what's good for me. Even if you did accidentally know me, I have not authorized you to speak on my behalf, so I will ask that you "make the sacrifice" of not doing so.

 

I have been reading about this "need" for years. Every time it's "the game's on it's last legs, it's going to die if you don't do it", and yet, here we are, yet again, discussing it like the game's going to shut down tomorrow if it doesn't happen. Transfers are still 90CC each, that means that you can, with just the sub, move 5 characters wherever you like, every month. With a security key, it gets even easier. This gives you what you need, and leaves others alone.

[omaan]

I'll tell you what:

 

1. You pay for my additional character slots, if servers where I have multiple characters are merged.

2. You research available names for me to use if said merger happens.

3. You decorate my SHs to where they are now, 4 at 100% and one just getting warmed up.

4. Getting the trend here? I saw a video about this on youtube, and the poster of said video said "People need to be ready to make sacrifices".

 

You make the sacrifices, I already have. I have sacrificed my time leveling alts on three servers, decorating SHs and securing names. If I wanted all my eggs in one basket, as it were, I would have all my characters on one server. I sure don't need you insisting that this is what's good for me. You don't know me, I don't think, and therefore have no grounds on which to claim you know what's good for me. Even if you did accidentally know me, I have not authorized you to speak on my behalf, so I will ask that you "make the sacrifice" of not doing so.

 

I have been reading about this "need" for years. Every time it's "the game's on it's last legs, it's going to die if you don't do it", and yet, here we are, yet again, discussing it like the game's going to shut down tomorrow if it doesn't happen. Transfers are still 90CC each, that means that you can, with just the sub, move 5 characters wherever you like, every month. With a security key, it gets even easier. This gives you what you need, and leaves others alone.

 

Blame bioware for their servers being DEAD, and address it to them. Not my fault that my friends and a host of players stuck with their guildships on dead servers, and that even on populated servers there are times when you need to wait long for proc just to join a wrz and fight the same people you see every day. This is the consequences of their actions, swtor's population is getting lower and lower with each week

[Ratajack]

What on earth are you queing for? I'm not on the most populated server and mine are rather timely. I even get GSF within ten minutes which is probably my longest... in the mornings. I just have never experienced this. Ops maybe? Try forming one without the que, that's a time waster even when you have the people. Everyone has to do something one after the other rather than all at once. I just can't imagine what's so horrible.

 

I did once wait almost half an hour for a specific hard mode flashpoint... maybe uprisings... never had one to pop before something else had so never done one but always heard people don't like em.

 

I have no idea what that poster is queuing for, but unless I am mistaken, the LFG toll will not group a player with someone who is ignoring them.

 

I have said it before, but I have to wonder if those players who rely upon the LFG tool for their group content and claim that they "never get pops" have found their way onto too many ignore lists for the LFG tool to actually be able to group them with other players. Given the attitudes that some of those claiming that queues never pop apparently show on these forums, would it be surprising if their in game attitudes and behavior were just as toxic and had led to them being on too many ignore lists?

[Ratajack]

Watch server merge discussion thread again, and see that players want it!

 

Do you mean the same thread that shows many people do NOT want server merges?

[Ratajack]

Anyone that actually loves the game is not going to quit playing over a Legacy name. I just can't believe anyone that says they actually like the game but quit over that. sorry I just won't. The quality of life of the game has to be the bigger concern rather than just character and legacy names or even guild names. The ones that have had the names the longest should keep them, simple as that. It's fair.

 

I am also sick of the "just transfer" bs. IT DOESN'T HELP ANYTHING! The most populated server is The Harbinger and the queue times are TERRIBLE on it. So please tell me where is there to transfer to!? There isn't anywhere, period!. I will never care about solo players problems on an MMO. I just won't, go play a single-player game. I don't care if you think I am a ***** for it.

 

I wonder what players will do if BW chooses to add one or more new larger servers and let those that wish to play on a higher population server transfer to one of those new larger servers?

 

Will they choose to transfer to the "new megaserver" or will they choose to remain where they are, demanding server merges or cross server (even though we know that cross server will likely not be happening)?

[Jedi_riches]

I'm sick and tired of this. I'm sick of playing a dead game. Solo content is boring so yes this is a dead game to me.If I want to be a solo player then I will just go play a game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age. This is a MMO it should feel like it. I am tired of sitting in hour long queues. The only pvp i do is GSF so the pvp queues for me takes forever as well.

I am giving them a few more months to get their heads out of the sand or I am gone too.

 

Feel free to use cheap transfers then, I am against forced server merges because not everyone want huge servers, at the moment those who want higher population servers CAN move and those that want quieter ones CAN move/stay on their servers.

 

But once server merges happen those that want quieter servers HAVE NOWHERE TO GO except out of the door and that really does nothing for the games overall population.

[Khaleg]

I'm sick and tired of this. I'm sick of playing a dead game. Solo content is boring so yes this is a dead game to me.If I want to be a solo player then I will just go play a game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age. This is a MMO it should feel like it. I am tired of sitting in hour long queues. The only pvp i do is GSF so the pvp queues for me takes forever as well.

I am giving them a few more months to get their heads out of the sand or I am gone too.

 

Yep, totally agreed.

[Khaleg]

They can, and have previously, handled guild assets (banks specifically). So this shouldn't be very difficult for them. Granted there are more "moving pieces" with a flagship than a bank. But the way it used to work was that the GL sent a ticket telling them where the guild was going and the DungeonMasters verified their assets and granted said assets on the destination server.

 

While a name purge is probably the easiest thing for them to do, wouldn't it be better to have them redesign the naming convention to something similar to what Cryptic uses? Then my main would be Ciks@Ekwalizer (on JC) and the @Ekwalizer could be hidable under options.

 

I don't have much of an opinion on RP servers, but it seems to me that one RP server should be enough. Considering the Player Vs Whatever is now an opt-in function at the player level there is definitely no reason to leave any PvP servers open (I haven't logged in longer than necessary to retain control of my guild in about a year so I don't know what has and has not transpired).

 

The NA servers are going to be a cakewalk compared to the EU servers.

 

Since this is just DATA we are speaking about here there should and must be more intelligent solutions to this, for a competent company that is. I believe when they send company mail to someone they don't send a guy via cab or whatever to the destination either. :-) We are not speaking about moving skyscrapers from one town to another here - it's freaking DATA and it's ridiculous that they don't have anyhting in place for that after 5+ years. Unbelievable it is my padawan. :-)

[Jedi_riches]

You seem to intentionally ignore or not even understand why this is not remotely a solution for many players, actually for all serious players who are involved with guilds+assets/strongholds/etc.. Read the damn thread before posting such ignorant nonsense please, because this uninformed bs just has one result: The feeling to "discuss" in a neverending/repeating loop of ignorance. You should talk to the worst person in this thread, Ratjerk or how he calls himself, he masters the same ignorance and lack of understanding like you, and that over and over. You might love him. Others like me have him on ignore...to raise the intellectual value of this thread.

 

I have read this thread actually, but the point is players complain about the lack of population but are not prepared to sacrifice ANYTHING to get it so they simply try to force the devs to merge the servers to have their 'cake and eat it' against the will of others who perfer no merges, these players do have a choice, after merges players have NO choice and in cases like mine it will likely end the game for me after a continuous sub of 5 years.

 

As for Ratajack, he simply speaks his mind I can appreciate that in a person as someone needs to speak out against the players with a sense of entitlement or to speak up against the more vocal element on the forum

[merovejec]

sadly you will probably get a warning for the post and it will be removed. all for just speaking the truth. The only thing that is not a pain in the *** is solo content.Everything else is just a pain to get a queue to pop for. It's been this way for almost 2 years now. There is no excuse for them to take this long to fix this issue.

 

Post is still up after 3 days so I dont think so, he didnt say anything wrong, just facts and what he thinks! As long as its constructive and adds to the discussion there is no point to remove it.

 

He does have a point ofc, if I were on a server with no pops of anykind and been paying for an MMO (multiplayer) game then I would be also pissed after 15 months!

[merovejec]

Or don't, The Progenitor is an RP server, As has been stated multiple times Some of us would rather stay on an RP server than be forced to move to a server Where we are likely to br trolled.

 

Well when you RP dont u do it in groups and instances? Are you doing it so publicly that its really open to trolls? I am for real I dont know how it works.

[merovejec]

Keith,

 

how about keeping it simple: offer free characters transfers to all the players.

 

While it's not perfect, as not everything is transferred with a character, it would certainly help and would be a quite a decent mitigation with the current server population issue.

 

Then in the background you can nail down all the whole server migration and database consolidation issues.

 

One of the main issues are guildships and strongholds, you lose those when you server transfer your toons (well u keep decos from SH), also the names..... free transfers wont do!

[IoNonSoEVero]

The people who are complaining about lack of population and feel that their current servers are not a good fit do not want to change servers because of all the inherent complications, such as guild assets, strongholds, names, etc. Hey, those are all very legit concerns, because as players we all invest a lot of time/energy/sometimes real world money into the things that matter to us within the game.

 

However, they want server merges - which would force many other players to contend with those exact same complications - without thinking about how it would affect them, and how the new server may or may not be a good fit for them.

 

IMHO, if you want increased population - campaign with BW to make that easier in terms of guild assets, etc. so you *can* move somewhere you will be happier. But how fair is it to expect other players - many of whom will be irrelevant to you if the servers merge, because they won't be getting in those PvP/Ops/uprising queues or joining your guild - to be inconvenienced, lose some of *their* assets and names,and potentially be driven out of the game to potentially make *your* game better?

Edited July 31, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

[casirabit]

Yet, most of the players want it, which means it must be happened. I hope, you kid are old enough to understand that all important changes are implemented when MOST of the subjects demand it. Minority has no power to choose for majority. Welcome to real world. You can have your rp server, so you could stay there with a small group of players drinking imaginary whine and chatting garbage in cantinas but it doesn't mean active players must suffer.

 

You are so funny if you think all roleplayers do is stand around and do nothing. If that is the case, then explain how I have one character at Command Rank at 300, another one at 200 and one more at 150 and the others between 50-90 (and I have a total of 14 all level 70), have the achievements for the flashpoints, uprising, etc. Last I checked you don't get CXP points and achievements by standing around.

 

You sir are very uninformed about roleplayers because most of them are "Active" players and have most of the achievements but the difference is roleplayers normally play with a guild and friends and don't rely on group pickups as much as probably you do.

[masterceil]

Well when you RP dont u do it in groups and instances? Are you doing it so publicly that its really open to trolls? I am for real I dont know how it works.

 

A lot of RP is instanced (strongholds, guildships) or in /guild or custom channels, but a lot of it ain't. Slippery Slope Cantina and the bar around Fleet are common places for /say RP. Additionally, there is no way to communicate in private channels cross-faction, so when cross-faction RP happens (either within a guild or between two guilds), that generally has to take place in /say somewhere. True, you can meet up at a neutral SH like Yavin or Nar Shaddaa, but sometimes you just want to talk on Voss or Oricon for RP purposes, or, also for RP purposes, need to meet on 'neutral' grounds - out in the world.

 

I don't RP near as much as I used to (and mostly on my site's forum these days), but I know how it works : )

[casirabit]

It's funny the ones always saying "you can't prove this and that" yeah well how about you prove the majority don't want server mergers or cross-server. Well YOU CANT! so you are just hypocrites.

The solo players are so damn annoying. If you are a solo player then server merges do not effect you. If you have to change your character name, BIG DEAL!. Nothing stops you from doing solo content. The real MMO players are sitting in queues forever if they even pop at all. If you think this game can survive from just solo players, yeah gl with that. It won't.

 

Since when do group players sit in ques? I don't but then again I have a guild and friends to play with. I don't rely on group pickups as I rather play with people I know and trust to do what they are supposed to in a flashpoint or operation. So before you start accusing people of being just solo players check your facts. A lot of us that are on servers that don't want mergers may have nothing to do with being solo players. We may actually play with people so the group finder is not something we use and consider this even if they do mergers how would that improve your "que" if people are playing with their guild or friends don't que even then. Are you going to stomp your feet and demand that we que up?

[Aulus_Claudius]

I know how game programming works to an extent, how poorly commented it tends to be, and thus how the lack of the original programmers on the team can make some code difficult if not impossible to alter without breaking things. For that reason, I get why cross-server is technically impossible without massive resource investment. So if our only solutions are either leaving things as-is or a massive server merge (possibly a false choice - any other ideas?), let's look to things BW has already implemented in the past to suggest some solutions.

 

Let me start by saying that the loss of a single one of my character names would be the final nail in the coffin for me. A solution similar to what we see already in the conquest menu with (Guild Name)@(Pre-Merge Server) would work, and they've already shown that they're capable of doing it. It would be a question of scale, and of course a ton of database changes, but those could be automated and realistically completed over the course of a long patch day with sufficient preparation.

 

Legacy bank merges shouldn't be an issue - just have one bank overwrite the others and mail the overwritten contents to a character in that legacy. Using mail in this way is nothing new to SWTOR, as we saw with companion gear and still see when you get a command crate and your inventory is full. Just make a back-up of what was inside the deleted bank for when the inevitable bug occurs and some poor sod loses his Crate-O-Matic or something.

 

Strongholds and guild assets, on the other hand, could and need to be handled with or without a server merge. Allow for the transfer of strongholds akin to the legacy merge when a character transfers, with the stronghold with the highest completion % overwriting the other and of course a warning that this will happen. When a character with a "guild leader" rank transfers, transfer his guild with all guild assets along with that character just like it was a stronghold or legacy.

 

Placement of decos, existence and locations of guild ships, contents of banks, these are all contained in data files - at its core it's a simple copy-paste task, and although I imagine there's quite a bit more to it than that depending on how their database is programmed, you can't tell me that what is essentially database management is technically impossible. Incredibly tedious, perhaps, but not impossible. I'm sure the bright minds at BW can come up with something to automate such transfers and overwrite any mentions of the old server with the new one in the copied files.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Aulus_Claudius

[merovejec]

A lot of RP is instanced (strongholds, guildships) or in /guild or custom channels, but a lot of it ain't. Slippery Slope Cantina and the bar around Fleet are common places for /say RP. Additionally, there is no way to communicate in private channels cross-faction, so when cross-faction RP happens (either within a guild or between two guilds), that generally has to take place in /say somewhere. True, you can meet up at a neutral SH like Yavin or Nar Shaddaa, but sometimes you just want to talk on Voss or Oricon for RP purposes, or, also for RP purposes, need to meet on 'neutral' grounds - out in the world.

 

I don't RP near as much as I used to (and mostly on my site's forum these days), but I know how it works : )

 

Hmm well Ok, i mean i can imagine ppl might get trolled on fleet, but in Open world, it should be less propable. i guess we dont know until we try

[Ottoattack]

I know you all know this, but I'll remind you anyway, if a server merge was the direction, then we need to make sure we understand the reasons why players don't want to move. We have hardware/software, connectivity, and database considerations. We also have a ton of in-game 'things' to consider like Legacy Cargo Hold slots across multiple-servers, decorations and Strongholds, currency caps, merging of Legacies, number of characters on a server, keeping guilds and guild assets intact, and more. You also have Conquests and the domination of large guilds over everyone else, area respawn rates, and so on.

 

Healthy ques and population far exceeds things like character or legacy names. There will be costs which ever decision you make, and a higher cost of none at all. So.. take action, just ensure it is not sudden.

 

TBH, if you make majority of the ques cross faction, that will be a good start and probably much easier and cheaper.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Ottoattack

[merovejec]

technically impossible without

 

Of course as you say there is nothing technically against it, but the main issue for the people are their character and guild names, which are most probably taken on the bigest server.

 

There are also a few, like you could see in the lastest threads, that literally like to be alone on the server, but overall thats why this thread came to be in the first place to see how many want what!

[TUXs]

Cross server isn't worth the investment. Mega servers are.

[casirabit]

Hmm well Ok, i mean i can imagine ppl might get trolled on fleet, but in Open world, it should be less propable. i guess we dont know until we try

 

Open world depends on the people around you. There are some that stop and listen, then some that troll so depends on the people and the server. On Ebon Hawk we don't get that many trolling roleplay in the open world, it does happen from time to time, but normally they get shut down fairly quickly when people remind them that Ebon Hawk is a roleplay server and that roleplay is accepted there.

[omaan]

Do you mean the same thread that shows many people do NOT want server merges?

 

Yeah the one where MOST of the players said yes to server merges. Some are against server merge but majority as i showed it in my previous messages are wanting server merge.