Server Merge Discussion Thread

[Icykill_]

This is a great sentiment, the problem is, a list has been posted several times to be followed shortly by a comment that is in total opposition to that list. How many times have we gone down the road of RP servers and there continue to be posts that are "I don't see why RPers need their own server". That is what is setting people off. They think they have an agreement and then someone posts just the opposite of worse posts something like "All servers are dead, merge now, nuf said" (not a direct quote just an example but just as unhelpful as some of the posts on the other side). The later speaks volumes about the amount of cooperation (or lack thereof that exists)

 

If you are going to ask people to stop responding to attacks on their positions (discussions stating reasons why a person feels that way are fine - to which it is perfectly reasonable to respond with a counter argument), then someone is going to need to police the thread and provide factual information about the topics discussed and the agreements that have been made.

 

You aren't wrong, but some maturity and self control isn't that hard either. People just bait others and then others take the bait. There is nothing wrong with disagreements and healthy debate. But the way things are said and personalising attacks on others isn't healthy. That's what I mean and if people would just stop responding to people attacking like children or just put them on ignore, the discussion would be more productive.

We all know there are reasons for and against the idea of mergers. We may not agree with the other side, but we should respect that they feel the way they do for valid reasons. The sad thing with this thread is nobody from either side has enough empathy for the other side of the discussion to put themselves in their shoes and understand. The other sad thing is when people offer alternatives, solutions or possible ways to fix things, they get shouted down. People also don't try to follow some basic logic or ask questions of Bioware about what they can do. Everyones an expert and has an opion on what Biowares capability is to achieve things and not one of them knows anything. It's all speculation and supposition of previous experiences many years ago, which we can all admit weren't perfect and now there are new challenges to achieve certain goals.

If we stopped bickering and actually started asking Bio some questions or making our concerns/demands known, then they should see them. They may not respond until they have answers or are ready, but if they don't know what they are because of the debacle that is this thread, then anything they may overlook or when they ignore concerns can be partially attributed to the way this thread has progressed.

 

A few rule reminders:

• Discussion of moderation is not permitted.
  
• Please remain respectful of other forum users. Disagreement and discussion is fine, personal attacks are not.
  

-eric

 

Eric said it at the start, personal attacks aren't fine, but this has been completely ignored.

 

I think people know I'm passionate about the game and want what's best. I often disagree a lot and will debate when I do, but I try to keep personal attacks out of my posts because it never helps to win someone over or get them to put themselves in your shoes.

 

Anyway, I've been refraining from posting ideas or discussing other people because it's pointless while this thread continues as it is. I would love to start another (pointless I know) or have Eric do so and lay some strict guidelines along the lines of what are your concerns, what would we need to do if we did merge, do you have other ideas to address population issues.. etc, etc.. etc.. this isn't a debate, it's an ideas and concerns thread.. then they actually get someone at Bio to maintain it and make a public list of the questions or ideas being thrown around. "It becomes the players wall of ideas", not Bios and they would have no obligation to implement any. But at least they'd see them all at once and not have to datamine a heap of crap to find them.

 

I hope this thread turns around or Eric's sentiment in wanting to hear feed back from us will be pointless because it'll end in the trash bin.

[AscendingSky]

Sigh, again on the RP server?

 

They just won't stop, either from self-centered stubbornness or the simple refusal to read the dozen plus posts already explaining how RP instances wouldn't work. People just want more convenience for themselves. They disregard how much it would hurt other paying customers because they haven't been in our shoes. They're fine with other people making sacrifices and suffering losses as long as they don't have to. It's sad.

Edited June 12, 2017 by AscendingSky

[fushnchips]

You aren't wrong, but some maturity and self control isn't that hard either. People just bait others and then others take the bait. There is nothing wrong with disagreements and healthy debate. But the way things are said and personalising attacks on others isn't healthy. That's what I mean and if people would just stop responding to people attacking like children or just put them on ignore, the discussion would be more productive.

We all know there are reasons for and against the idea of mergers. We may not agree with the other side, but we should respect that they feel the way they do for valid reasons. The sad thing with this thread is nobody from either side has enough empathy for the other side of the discussion to put themselves in their shoes and understand. The other sad thing is when people offer alternatives, solutions or possible ways to fix things, they get shouted down. People also don't try to follow some basic logic or ask questions of Bioware about what they can do. Everyones an expert and has an opion on what Biowares capability is to achieve things and not one of them knows anything. It's all speculation and supposition of previous experiences many years ago, which we can all admit weren't perfect and now there are new challenges to achieve certain goals.

 

This is how a % of the community is and also Bioware can be to blame I have had people come from other games and seen how toxic this game is and turn around and never come back Bioware have to start taking action and I have seen nothing as of yet in over 5 years of being a sub in a game that I can say I loved.

 

it's grown worse than the black plague and until they really come down on these toxic bandits the game won't improve.

[Savej]

Command Tokens are also tied to your Legacy on your current server, these will not transfer with your character.

 

https://help.ea.com/en-us/help/star-wars/star-wars-the-old-republic/swtor-character-transfers/

 

And at the moment I have close to 2000 tokens. (Note: I don't pvp so I can't use them on upgrading my set Tier 1 for Tier 2)

 

Command tokens are not transferring with some characters because if they were that would be very exploitable with the current transfer system, not because BW can't do it.

[Icykill_]

Ebon Hawk is techically a RP server. Sure they have taken that off the log in servers now, but if you would notice on the server page here on the forums it still states RP/PVE server. Ebon Hawk is one of the original RP servers.

 

http://www.swtor.com/server-status

 

This is one of those things that Bio could address straight away. All they need to do is put back on the server login screen is the server population status. Then distinguish RP/PVE with the designation for the old RP servers and the rest as standard pve servers. I think everyone would be in agreement it is pointless designating pvp servers. They should also say all servers have a pvp instance for OWPVP (not that it really matters), but having it there shows the option is available.

New people to the game can then make a more informed decision on which server to roll on instead of starting one and then finding they need to transfer. It also means their impression isn't ruined by ending up on a server that isn't suitable for their preferred game experience. Once that impression is ruined, a lot leave and never come back. They also tell their friends of the negative impression.

IMO, removing the server status has done more harm than good, especially to new people. I understand why they did it, I don't agree with why, but I can see how they thought it was a good idea to hide low population servers from new players to protect the perception of a dying game. I think they also thought the populations may naturally spread out more, I don't think they took into consideration that it would thin out populations even more across all servers and actually make it worse.

 

Edit : what would also be good, but I know will never, ever happen, is for the population meters to actually show the real numbers of players logged into an actual server. The current meter system of low, medium and "will never be reached" is point less when low could mean 2 people or 200 people and the difference between low to medium might be another 200 people (only example numbers). Maybe they could add another setting of quiet below "low".. not that they will.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Icykill_

[AscendingSky]

This is one of those things that Bio could address straight away. All they need to do is put back on the server login screen the server population status. Then distinguish RP/PVE with the designation for the old RP servers and the rest as standard pve servers. I think everyone would be in agreement it is pointless designating pvp servers. They should also say all servers have a pvp instance for OWPVP (not that it really matters), but having it there shows the option is available.

New people to the game can then make a more informed decision on which server to roll on instead of starting one and then finding they need to transfer. It also means their impression isn't ruined by ending up on a server that isn't suitable for their preferred game experience. Once that impression is ruined, a lot leave and never come back. They also tell their friends of the negative impression.

IMO, removing the server status has done more harm than good, especially to new people. I understand why they did it, I don't agree with why, but I can see how they thought it was a good idea to hide low population servers from new players to protect the perception of a dying game. I think they also thought the populations may naturally spread out more, I don't think they took into consideration that it would thin out populations even more across all servers and actually make it worse.

 

Edit : what would also be good, but I know will never, ever happen, is for the population meters to actually show the real numbers of players logged into an actual server. The current meter system of low, medium and "will never be reached" is point less when low could mean 2 people or 200 people and the difference between low to medium might be another 200 people (only example numbers). Maybe they could add another setting of quiet below "low".. not that they will.

 

I agree with putting all those labels regarding population and server type back on the server select screen. Hell, I'd be all for new accounts simply not being allowed to roll characters on the lowest population servers, simply to avoid any new potential players picking those out of ignorance and ending up with a bad experience as a result.

Edited June 12, 2017 by AscendingSky

[Ratajack]

Command tokens are not transferring with some characters because if they were that would be very exploitable with the current transfer system, not because BW can't do it.

 

Do you have a quote from an actual BW source to confirm that?

 

It is a possible explanation, but without a quote from a BW source, that is all it is---a POSSIBLE explanation, that may or may not be the actual reason.

[Icykill_]

This is how a % of the community is and also Bioware can be to blame I have had people come from other games and seen how toxic this game is and turn around and never come back Bioware have to start taking action and I have seen nothing as of yet in over 5 years of being a sub in a game that I can say I loved.

 

it's grown worse than the black plague and until they really come down on these toxic bandits the game won't improve.

 

I agree, it's long over due, but I don't think we should rely on it ever happening. Than means it's up to us and we can take some personal steps as I suggested to curb some. It won't get rid of it completely, but it may thin it out so we can come up for air.

[Ratajack]

I agree with putting all those labels regarding population and server type back on the server select screen. Hell, I'd be all for new accounts simply not being allowed to roll characters on the lowest population servers, simply to avoid any new potential players picking those out of ignorane and ending up with a bad experience as a result.

 

I have said several times that I agree that the old PVP servers should be labeled as "very low population" or "very light population".

 

I think quite a few posters in this thread would also agree.

 

Unfortunately, though, many of the "Merge servers NOW!!!!! I NEED more LFG fodder!!!!!" crowd (even those that claim that their biggest concern is new players "picking the wrong server") refuse to accept anything other than server merges.

[ivanhedgehog]

My thoughts are forget the "East Coast/West Coast" servers. I don't think they're really necessary. Combine both North American RP servers into one, combine the PvE servers into one, and the PvP servers into one. Then, do away with PvP instances of planets, bring back the old system of allowing us to flag ourselves on non PvP servers so that the PvP server can actually have a population.

 

you were ok till you got to the end. separating pve and pvp was one of the best things they ever did. Make it so I can turn off the pvp flag with absolutely no chance of turning it on unless I go to preferences. until that happens, I dont need or want to be in a pvp capable instance.

[Savej]

Do you have a quote from an actual BW source to confirm that?

 

It is a possible explanation, but without a quote from a BW source, that is all it is---a POSSIBLE explanation, that may or may not be the actual reason.

 

It's completely obvious, common sense. Get 2k on a legacy, send a character to another server, spend the 2k on 100% cxp tokens. Send another character to the same server, buy more cxp tokens. Send another character, could be level 1 fresh out of the character manager, buy more cxp tokens. Etc. Then transfer 1 character with infinite cxp tokens back to the original server. That's the simplest exploit ever and not one BW could punish ppl for. There's no way BW can send command tokens with character transfers. Merges, tho, are another story.

[Jedi_riches]

Add an instance for RP. It's already easy to troll RP servers, so that argument is void for instance RP. The same enforcement is applied to the RP instance which is easier because it's less servers.

 

It's much easier to simply transfer into a RP instance to troll, yet players will have to go out of their way to troll a actual RP server, that additional effort removes a large proportion of trolls from the pool as its not worth their effort to do so.

[Jedi_riches]

They just won't stop, either from self-centered stubbornness or the simple refusal to read the dozen plus posts already explaining how RP instances wouldn't work. People just want more convenience for themselves. They disregard how much it would hurt other paying customers because they haven't been in our shoes. They're fine with other people making sacrifices and suffering losses as long as they don't have to. It's sad.

 

Exactly, transfers are cheap enough if they really wanted to increase the warzone and op's pops so whats stopping them, oh that's right their virtual assets, because they choose to value the guild ships etc over a supposed increased pop they want to force Bioware to merge so there is a chance they can have both and are pushing their preferences onto everyone.

 

Some players want merges, some don't those that do feel free to just transfer over and leave others to their preferred play styles.

[Sephiryth]

Exactly, transfers are cheap enough if they really wanted to increase the warzone and op's pops so whats stopping them, oh that's right their virtual assets, because they choose to value the guild ships etc over a supposed increased pop they want to force Bioware to merge so there is a chance they can have both and are pushing their preferences onto everyone.

 

Some players want merges, some don't those that do feel free to just transfer over and leave others to their preferred play styles.

 

this ^

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

This is one of those things that Bio could address straight away. All they need to do is put back on the server login screen is the server population status. Then distinguish RP/PVE with the designation for the old RP servers and the rest as standard pve servers. I think everyone would be in agreement it is pointless designating pvp servers. They should also say all servers have a pvp instance for OWPVP (not that it really matters), but having it there shows the option is available.

 

Edit : what would also be good, but I know will never, ever happen, is for the population meters to actually show the real numbers of players logged into an actual server

 

Agreed, makes perfect sense Icy.

[Ratajack]

It's completely obvious, common sense. Get 2k on a legacy, send a character to another server, spend the 2k on 100% cxp tokens. Send another character to the same server, buy more cxp tokens. Send another character, could be level 1 fresh out of the character manager, buy more cxp tokens. Etc. Then transfer 1 character with infinite cxp tokens back to the original server. That's the simplest exploit ever and not one BW could punish ppl for. There's no way BW can send command tokens with character transfers. Merges, tho, are another story.

 

As I thought, you have no source or proof, just an assumption. It's not necessarily a bad assumption, but it IS just an assumption.

 

I don't disagree that it would be very easy to exploit command tokens if they transferred with individual characters.

 

While it may "seem obvious", that is not necessarily the reason that they do not transfer.

 

Even if it were, we have no guarantee that BW would (or even could, depending upon where those changes would need to be made in the code) make the necessary changes to ensure that they did transfer.

[casirabit]

This is one of those things that Bio could address straight away. All they need to do is put back on the server login screen is the server population status. Then distinguish RP/PVE with the designation for the old RP servers and the rest as standard pve servers. I think everyone would be in agreement it is pointless designating pvp servers. They should also say all servers have a pvp instance for OWPVP (not that it really matters), but having it there shows the option is available.

New people to the game can then make a more informed decision on which server to roll on instead of starting one and then finding they need to transfer. It also means their impression isn't ruined by ending up on a server that isn't suitable for their preferred game experience. Once that impression is ruined, a lot leave and never come back. They also tell their friends of the negative impression.

IMO, removing the server status has done more harm than good, especially to new people. I understand why they did it, I don't agree with why, but I can see how they thought it was a good idea to hide low population servers from new players to protect the perception of a dying game. I think they also thought the populations may naturally spread out more, I don't think they took into consideration that it would thin out populations even more across all servers and actually make it worse.

 

Edit : what would also be good, but I know will never, ever happen, is for the population meters to actually show the real numbers of players logged into an actual server. The current meter system of low, medium and "will never be reached" is point less when low could mean 2 people or 200 people and the difference between low to medium might be another 200 people (only example numbers). Maybe they could add another setting of quiet below "low".. not that they will.

 

I agree with this as well. I had an argument with someone last night that kept saying Ebon Hawk was never a RP server. I said it was and it is the unofficial RP server now. It would help with people understanding why RP is so prevalent on Ebon Hawk.

[BlackSilverRoar]

LF valid Pro-megaserver argument:

http://www.swtorstrategies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/swtor-patchnotes.jpg

Edited June 12, 2017 by Willjb

[HuaRya]

LF valid Pro-megaserver argument:

http://www.swtorstrategies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/swtor-patchnotes.jpg

 

Ironically the developers and managers of MMO games know the healthiest a game can be is when the theme park has people to go on the many rides it has built. Not everyone gets fulfillment doing emotes at the fleet bar which is akin to the entrance of the theme park. Many desire to go on the rides, haunted house, roller coasters, speed track, bumper cars, etc.

 

Revelation Online is doing it this week.

Quote:

The last few months have been exciting for Revelation Online and its community. We’ve added new features and continue to polish the game, we’re constantly looking to ensure a high-quality game play experience for our community. Recent upgrades to our servers and upcoming localization's of the game will be making population merges are necessary and a very positive event for the community. Merges will take place on June 14th!

 

Increased server capacity

 

We have made huge improvements into our server infrastructure to ensure stability and capacity. Our servers can now efficiently host many more players than they originally could. A large and well-populated server has the highest benefits for the community: It allows for more opportunities for old and new players to have more competitors in PvP content be that in Battlegrounds, Clan Wars, Guild Tournaments and even open-world PvP. Players who enjoy PvE content such as raids and dungeons will be able to find groups much more easily for larger and harder content such as the 20-man instances.

[kvandertulip]

LF valid Pro-megaserver argument:

http://www.swtorstrategies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/swtor-patchnotes.jpg

 

What is this supposed to prove? This screenshot is from 4 years ago. It literally says 2013 in the url.

[Ratajack]

Ironically the developers and managers of MMO games know the healthiest a game can be is when the theme park has people to go on the many rides it has built. Not everyone gets fulfillment doing emotes at the fleet bar which is akin to the entrance of the theme park. Many desire to go on the rides, haunted house, roller coasters, speed track, bumper cars, etc.

 

Revelation Online is doing it this week.

 

You realize that not everyone wants to ride those rides with a million other people, especially with a million toxic jerks, right?

 

How much good will it do if the gaming company forces players to leave the park they are currently in (and in which they are perfectly happy--able to ride the rides they want to ride and do so without having to fight a million toxic jerks to do so) to go to a park that is overcrowded, and full of toxic jerks?

 

Will it really help those toxic jerks if none of the people who were forced to go to their park want to get in line for the rides, or worse decide to leave the park altogether?

[kodrac]

Why is it some people are happy to ignor what RPers say about the issues they have with any potential merger like what we do isn't important? We pay a sub too. As has been said multiple times a seperete instance just won't help, It is far to easy for trolls and griefers to change instances to interfere with us if everyone ends up on one megaserver.

 

Obviously it's lack of respect for your playstyle. They don't partake so they just ignore it as unimportant. Short-sighted and selfish.

[Talon_strikes]

You realize that not everyone wants to ride those rides with a million other people, especially with a million toxic jerks, right?

 

How much good will it do if the gaming company forces players to leave the park they are currently in (and in which they are perfectly happy--able to ride the rides they want to ride and do so without having to fight a million toxic jerks to do so) to go to a park that is overcrowded, and full of toxic jerks?

 

Will it really help those toxic jerks if none of the people who were forced to go to their park want to get in line for the rides, or worse decide to leave the park altogether?

That's no excuse to keep dead servers or duplicate servers that don't need to be competing for the same crowd in operation. Merge them, and people who have issues with the toxic jerks should take some initiative on their part to use the ignore and report tools. This is the internet. There will always be toxic jerks.

[BlackSilverRoar]

I have said several times that I agree that the old PVP servers should be labeled as "very low population" or "very light population".

 

I think quite a few posters in this thread would also agree.

 

Unfortunately, though, many of the "Merge servers NOW!!!!! I NEED more LFG fodder!!!!!" crowd (even those that claim that their biggest concern is new players "picking the wrong server") refuse to accept anything other than server merges.

 

Oh I'm sure the Merge servers Now WAHers have our best interests in mind (lol). Trying to have a reasonable discussion with them is like trying to talk with the Crier droid on Rishi:

http://i1.wp.com/tor-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/swtor-2015-11-02-20-56-32-11.jpg?resize=672%2C372

[Savej]

What would you call "well populated?" Sometimes, when I queue, they're practically instant pops. Some days I barely have time to sell my crap from a FP and shove the rest inside my cargo hold before another pops. They would be even quicker pops if people didn't decline the queue invites, and there have been a lot of that.

 

TEH is hardly in bad shape, and I can almost always find people to RP with, just hang around fleet sometime and you'll see a few RPers, it's just most of it happens from within SH/Capital ships.

 

Reg pvp is no problem - lately some qs in off hours are slower tban I like but they pop

Vet fps no problem

 

Problems:

GSf

SM Ops

Master FPs

Ranked pvp

Uprisings

etc