Server Merge Discussion Thread

[TUXs]

That's a huge over-exaggeration, is it not?

 

First, it's not even close to 50%. It's about 37%. That's closer to one third than one half.

 

Second, those numbers are CHARACTERS, not accounts. That does NOT mean that 37% of the people using that parser have "left the game". It means that roughly 37% of the CHARACTERS "belonging" to players that use that parser are not being played.

 

Given the number of people claiming that they "cannot play alts", is it any surprise that the number of CHARACTERS being played has dropped?

 

Now, I am not saying that there has been no drop in population, only that the numbers given in the post to which you responded hardly show a 50% drop in population.

79,614 toons down to 39,413 is more than a 50% decline. What numbers are you looking at exactly?

 

And yes it's surprising. This is data from the past 16 weeks, well after 5.0 dropped. The people claiming they can't play alts are already factored into the 79k that were parsing who are no longer playing.

[RobertFKennedyUS]

I don't know if the nerfs were needed or not, but they probably did play a role in some of the drop off as I know one guy who quit the game over the merc arsenal nerfs and someone else who told me that the sorc is ruined because of the nerf (don't necessarily believe that but it's his perception that's relevant).

 

I will make one observation/suggestion which while valid is going nowhere: it's too bad that BW does not have separate PvP and PvE stats, because you're making PvE stats dependent on PvP and that's just methodologically illogical, as the two are quite different.

[mrtrubbel]

Given the number of people claiming that they "cannot play alts", is it any surprise that the number of CHARACTERS being played has dropped?

But is that something fundamental that has changed in the past 16 weeks? If not, there must be another reason for the decline in characters.

 

What type of player installs a damage parser for SWTOR? I would assume mainly the hard core of players that have been playing for quite some time. If true, the very large drop in activity may indicate that many long-term subscribers have in the past 16 weeks stopped playing.

[Ratajack]

79,614 toons down to 39,413 is more than a 50% decline. What numbers are you looking at exactly?

 

And yes it's surprising. This is data from the past 16 weeks, well after 5.0 dropped. The people claiming they can't play alts are already factored into the 79k that were parsing who are no longer playing.

 

This is what I was referencing, from the post to which you responded:

 

 

Interestingly, we can see a decline from around 80k toons to around 52k toons in the past 16 weeks.

 

 

A drop from 80K to 52K is NOT 50%.

 

I did not click on the link, so the numbers there may have been different.

 

Even if the link shows different numbers, that still does NOT mean that a drop in CHARACTERS played equates to an equal number of players "having left the game".

 

We all know there has been a drop in population, but is it a true 50% drop? Based on the numbers referenced, one cannot say.

[TUXs]

I will make one observation/suggestion which while valid is going nowhere: it's too bad that BW does not have separate PvP and PvE stats, because you're making PvE stats dependent on PvP and that's just methodologically illogical, as the two are quite different.

They had a built in, easy balance tool for PvP that never needed to impact PvE at all, until 5.0...it was called Expertise. It should have been what was adjusted, based on classes performances, but it never was...like everything else the game has done, it too became a 'one-size-fits-all'.

 

And don't think for a minute that the changes that were made were PvP related, they weren't...they were PvE related. Players were doing too good on parses, and parses only happen in PvE.

[docbenwayddo]

The percentage problem seems to be that one bunch are using the posted 80k and 52k from post #2466 and the other is using 79,614 and 39,413.

There is obviously a discrepancy in the time frame or numbers somewhere between the 50% and 37% folks

[TUXs]

The percentage problem seems to be that one bunch are using the posted 80k and 52k from post #2466 and the other is using 79,614 and 39,413.

There is obviously a discrepancy in the time frame or numbers somewhere between the 50% and 37% folks

Ah, thank you. I guess it's clear some people didn't read very well.

[mrtrubbel]

The percentage problem seems to be that one bunch are using the posted 80k and 52k from post #2466 and the other is using 79,614 and 39,413.

There is obviously a discrepancy in the time frame or numbers somewhere between the 50% and 37% folks

Yep that's because the 39k is so far this week. The 52k number is the most recent finished calendar week. That makes it comparable to the other weeks, e.g. the 80k players in the calendar week 16 weeks ago.

 

Again, it does not make sense to consider the 39k number because that's part of this calendar week which is not yet completed. Rather, focus on the 80k to 52k drop based on the most recent calendar week.

[TUXs]

This is what I was referencing, from the post to which you responded:

Unlike you, I knew what the numbers currently were before making my claim.

[TUXs]

Yep that's because the 39k is so far this week. The 52k number is the most recent finished calendar week. That makes it comparable to the other weeks, e.g. the 80k players in the calendar week 16 weeks ago.

 

Again, it does not make sense to consider the 39k number because that's part of this calendar week which is not yet completed. Rather, focus on the 80k to 52k drop based on the most recent calendar week.

This week? Did you READ what the data represents or are you assuming? It's based on server resets...the 15th-21st. That IS the final number...not a partial one.

Edited August 22, 2017 by TUXs

[Mubrak]

We all know there has been a drop in population, but is it a true 50% drop? Based on the numbers referenced, one cannot say.

 

Well it's a drop in raiders that use starparse. The people that 3-manned the sisters and then went on to do something challenging. It's also not very helpful for a server merges discussion. Those people are not pugging.

 

Of course the population will shrink after a significant downgrade in graphic and sound quality followed by 2 years of nothing but very mediocre story, old and new content being made so easy, a blind deaf comatose lobotomy patient could rush trough it, and finally locking the F2P out of endgame content (No, they're not freebooters, in a freemium MMO the F2P are supposed to be content for the paying players.)

 

But the allegedly limited resources shouldn't be used for putting a bandaid on the annoying warning light, they rather should be used to fix whatever made it light up in the first place.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Mubrak

[Savej]

I occasionally take snapshots of populations on various servers. The number of active characters has gone down dramatically since Jan 2015.

 

What can BW do to get those people back without just adding a lot of great content and features (spending a lot of $)? I'm not sure. But I do know that, historically, merges were great for improving player retention. And I am very sure that anything BW does to get new/returning people into the game will fall flat on its face without doing merges first at this point. KOTFE and KOTET were good at getting people into the game, as were the SW movies - but those people didn't stick around. And the bumps that the currently dead servers got were very very fleeting. Dead and dying servers are not features or selling points for mmo'ers at large. They are huge, prominent, leaking warts.

[mrtrubbel]

This week? Did you READ what the data represents or are you assuming? It's based on server resets...the 15th-21st. That IS the final number...not a partial one.

Ah yes, you're right. I misread the date on that last bar. Indeed, the most recent week is concluded and it's even worse than I thought. Sad stuff, indeed it was only 39k, down from 80k 16 weeks earlier. Crazy.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Sorry, mate, I can't be sitting around waiting on your replies, I have other things that need doing. I'm actually still waiting on your reply to my questions. The reply you gave was sadly quite predictable - instead of reading what I wrote and responding, you assumed I was arguing with you. I wasn't saying you were lying, I was trying to get you to provide some actual evidence to support your point (a line on a graph that shows 4 degrees means nothing). As I said earlier, unless you know that Light represents X people playing, you'd be as well calling it after colours or candy bars. I even said I would probably agree with you, but the red tinted glasses came on and you probably missed that.

 

But feel free to call me white knight, or whatever. For now, I'm going to keep playing and try to support others in playing, instead of jumping on the bandwagon of hating everything.

 

My response clearly and accurately answered your questions. Re-read it again, if you feel there are points I am not answering then feel free to quote it in context to demonstrate it as such. Otherwise this "nah uh you didn't respond how I wanted you to respond" type post is just utter nonsense.

 

Fwiw you are again asking for evidence of a point I wasn't making - I even asked exactly what point you thought I was making. The graph itself is evidence for exactly what the graph shows - population trend.

 

So, are you saying it's not evidence of that or are you saying I'm implying something completely different?

 

I don't see a lot of "hate band-wagon" in this thread. A lot of concerned players pointing out the direction we have or are heading in has lead to a serious decline in population though and thus hoping something will change to reverse this trend.

[RobertFKennedyUS]

They had a built in, easy balance tool for PvP that never needed to impact PvE at all, until 5.0...it was called Expertise. It should have been what was adjusted, based on classes performances, but it never was...like everything else the game has done, it too became a 'one-size-fits-all'.

 

And don't think for a minute that the changes that were made were PvP related, they weren't...they were PvE related. Players were doing too good on parses, and parses only happen in PvE.

 

Yeah I know the recent nerfs were not made due to PvP concerns, I'm just saying it's just one other thing they should have done differently, not making changes which would impact PvE based on PvP issues.

[Khaleg]

And the last, but not least, Australian prime time 7pm

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/Sp9Ub

 

🙇🏼*♀️😥

 

Sadly these overviews provided from Bioware do not even remotely reflect the sad reality. Their criteria/range for light must be a joke, a joke that has no information value whatsoever.

I have chars on only 2 servers, Jar'kai Sword and T3M4, Jar'kai Sword the real server I like to play on, with my guild with full extended assets and so on and the 2 chars on T3M4 exist ONLY to make me able to play pvp or gsf once in a while, since on Jar'kai Sword both did not happen ONCE in 14 months now, not one pop, I'm very serious about this and not exaggerating. Even the queues for stupid veteran fps are usually infinite if you don't do it with premade groups. GTN empty and all that stuff in addition too...

 

T3M4 has a fleet population I would say in the range of 5 to above 100 within 24 hours. Jar'kai Sword has a fleet population of like 0-8 max within 24 hours. 50 % of the total population on Jar'kai Sword (usually between 20 and 60 TOTAL on one faction side) are known goldfarmer bots on Yavin/Zakuul/Iokath/etc., 30-40 % low level/free players and then there is my guild, that's it, the same is true for imp side with a different guild. Imp side is slightly more populated but not in a relevant way.

 

Nevertheless both servers show up as light while the difference can't be much bigger and with no doubt Jar'kai Sword is dead, so dead that no life support could ever bring it back to life. For every new player who randomly arrives on that server 1-2 others leave. That is the situation for 13-14 months now, slightly better during winter.

 

AFAIK the situation on the other former pvp servers ain't much different/better, yet all show up as light, the same like other servers which actually have some life on them like T3M4. This overview from Bioware is a freaking joke made out of pure desinformation and inaccuracy.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Khaleg

[DanNV]

Just FYI, "Light" is the minimum. That is 0 to some number they don't disclose. Very few servers are ever getting above light anymore. Even those that do aren't doing it for long or often. BW has manage to kill the goose that lays golden eggs. How does anyone screw up Star Wars enough to end up where this game is now when new movies are coming out each year?

[fushnchips]

Just FYI, "Light" is the minimum. That is 0 to some number they don't disclose. Very few servers are ever getting above light anymore. Even those that do aren't doing it for long or often. BW has manage to kill the goose that lays golden eggs. How does anyone screw up Star Wars enough to end up where this game is now when new movies are coming out each year?

 

A lack of vision and very poor judgement with people pulling the strings and not allowing teams to do what they would like to for each content section. A lot more of what I would like to say would mostly push the people that monitor these forums over the edge due to the truth can hurt and some of them don't like it being said but the facts are showing that they need to hurry up with the server issues because the neglect from who ever has really hurt this game.

[Slowpokeking]

A lack of vision and very poor judgement with people pulling the strings and not allowing teams to do what they would like to for each content section. A lot more of what I would like to say would mostly push the people that monitor these forums over the edge due to the truth can hurt and some of them don't like it being said but the facts are showing that they need to hurry up with the server issues because the neglect from who ever has really hurt this game.

 

Even on Harbinger I start to feel the drop of the players. I need to go heal on most of the recent runs because we couldn't find enough heals. Maybe it's time for me to take a long break again.

[Ansultares]

Time to consolidate down to regional servers (EU, east coast, west coast).

 

Alternatively, regional cross-server clusters, assuming you have the technical expertise to pull this off, and that you feel you need to keep the extra servers online in case there's a population surge, such as the one expected to come at the end of this Fall when Episode 8 releases.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Just FYI, "Light" is the minimum. That is 0 to some number they don't disclose. Very few servers are ever getting above light anymore. Even those that do aren't doing it for long or often. BW has manage to kill the goose that lays golden eggs. How does anyone screw up Star Wars enough to end up where this game is now when new movies are coming out each year?

 

Galactic command and a lack of new content.

 

the sad thing with Galactic Command is that so many people who hated have left that the reduced population left actually make it look like a semi-decent system, it's not, it's still **** and has always been ****.

 

It's so bad now you can say something bad about galactic command on reddit and actually get down voted now.

 

People voted with their wallets and left and if BWA are working off metrics, feedback etc. of the minority remaining then they are doing it wrong.

[xmarcusprimex]

How does anyone screw up Star Wars enough to end up where this game is now when new movies are coming out each year?

 

A lack of TV commercial advertising for new expansions. Even an ad in theaters before the movie would produce a stunning amount of players for the game. Your average Star Wars fan really doesn't know this game exists or is still going.

[Lyshar]

See a lot of people saying RP instances won't work, and I have to say that with how things currently work they may be right. But at the same time merging everything but RP servers will not work either.

 

I know there are many non-RPers on RP servers, this is not a problem as both groups can coexist but this is an important part to take into mind. Main reason non-RPers have given for going to a RP server is the friendly atmosphere. But what will happen when servers merge and leave RP severs with low population? First of all, the non-RPers may move for better queues which will leave RPers with even less players.

 

Anyone that thinks at this point "But RPers don't care about queues." is wrong, being a RPer doesn't mean you have to only be a RPer. And that means the even more dying queues will send some of the RPers off to the more populated server. And yes, the RPers may very well RP there.

 

Then you have the anti-RPers, which can basically be split into 2 types. There are those that seek out RPers, and those that just don't want to see RP and avoid them. For the last group RP instances will work, no argument there, the first group is a problem...

 

That group is likely a problem for everyone regardless, because why do they go after RPers? Maybe because they are easy targets, but it likely doesn't matter who they can target as long as they can target someone. Remember how I mentioned the non-RPers that go to RP servers, it's to get away from people that would be the anti-RPers.

 

To fight those people what is needed are good ignore/report functions. If there's an anti-RP report it could send someone a restriction to even go to a RP instance, after the report's evaluation. But if the ignore function was working better, a 100% ignore (meaning not only chat, but also emotes and even character visibility, also working cross faction with infinity list size) would help everyone deal with bad elements.

 

Us RPers are not that special that we need our own server at all cost. RPers are the ones that need least game resources so may be the last to quit, giving in to bullies that easily is unbecoming. That said server merges aren't really needed, as long as there are cross server queues.

[RobertFKennedyUS]

But what will happen when servers merge and leave RP severs with low population? First of all, the non-RPers may move for better queues which will leave RPers with even less players.

 

Then that means that if RPers move too, then they just need to carry on their RP in guilds.

Edited August 24, 2017 by RobertFKennedyUS

[masterceil]

Then that means that if RPers move too, then they just need to carry on their RP in guilds.

 

Interguild RP is a thing, and so is localised chat (so a custom channel wouldn't work, either). If your solution doesn't involve people being able to /emote and /say in public places for their RP without being harassed, your solution doesn't work.