Server Merge Discussion Thread

[DWho]

This is my input:

 

US:

1 Pve Server

1 Pvp Server

1 RP Server.

 

Same goes for EU.

 

Would be pretty terrible if PVP, PVE and RP players would mix up to much.

We all know that PVP players are usually the most toxic ones. Let them be in their own server.

 

ONE big server, would just create to much toxicity between different player grps.

 

Thanks.

 

PVP servers didn't work in the past. They are the ones that are dead right now. With less PVP population than in the past, those servers would never have enough population for queues to pop. A significant number of players queuing for warzones are casuals that don't want to PVP full time.

[DWho]

lol 1 pvp server have you seen the state of all PVP servers in this game ? they are dead

 

As an additional point, about the only way you could make a PVP server work is if that was the only place you could PVP. I don't think there is enough PVP only population to create a viable PVP server.

[fushnchips]

As an additional point, about the only way you could make a PVP server work is if that was the only place you could PVP. I don't think there is enough PVP only population to create a viable PVP server.

 

would never work in any way unless they had cross server grouping for all content, So I listed a few videos I made about dead servers below it shows the population on a couple of them also includes planets.

 

EU Servers: dead servers video also featuring 2 quality servers.

 

 

US Pot5: the now dead main east coast pvp server

 

 

US Jung Ma: the worst server of all servers EU/NA

 

[Icykill_]

While it carried an MMO title from the start, which actually has nothing to do with group play and refers only to the fact that a large group of players are pursuing objectives in the same area, it launched with 8 full 50 level story arcs plus multiple planetary arcs designed for characters to pursue (grouped or not but certainly doable solo). It only had a handful of PVP maps and a couple of Operations. So while it may have carried an MMO designation, the majority of the content was not group oriented. It has increased those elements over time. I should have said group elements instead of MMO elements to be more clear but everyone in the forums seems to use the term MMO as synonymous with group play..

 

I'm not sure what else you would call a game with that much story (and Bioware spent a lot of money on that story portion of the game with the voiceovers). At best you could call it an MMO-RPG.

 

I dont know when you started to play, but I don't think you played at launch or even in 2.0 considering your first posts are from 2017.

When it started you needed to group to do most of the planet arc missions, at least you did for the planet heroics. (The game wasn't the face roll it is now and was harder). The Heroics are part of the story Arc the same as the individual class arcs. Grouping was better if you were different classes because you could experience some of your friends story too. If they meant it to only be solo they would not have put in the ability for your fiends to be involved with your class story. They even put in the ability for same classes to be in the same group.

You have a very different view from most people on what constitutes an MMO. There is often solo story in MMOs as well as group. Group isn't just pvp and Operations. There are heroics that are part of the planet story Arc which you pretty much needed to do at launch or you wouldn't lvl up enough to do your story Arc on the next planet. Flashpoints were also needed to get better armor for your class story.

The game is so easy now that they turned off the planet Arc by default. You can face roll Heroics and most flashpoints. If anything the game is more story now than MMO and that is why it is failing, New people dont even know about the planet story Arcs unless someone tells them to enable it and most of the original vanilla content is no longer played, which is sad because in my opinion it is better than a lot of the story added since then.

If the game still had the difficulty lvl set at what it was at launch, including companions only being able to fill one role, lots of people would still need to group to get through that content.

I rarely come out and categorically use the words you are wrong, but in this case you are wrong.

[Icykill_]

PVP servers didn't work in the past. They are the ones that are dead right now. With less PVP population than in the past, those servers would never have enough population for queues to pop. A significant number of players queuing for warzones are casuals that don't want to PVP full time.

 

Agreed, we definitely do not need pvp servers and we really never did. Pve servers fullfilled the role of both. I was always able to do any pvp content in the game on pve servers.

[Icykill_]

I still think Cross Faction or mixed faction pvp would go a long way to helping the pop times and the pvp community.

It's long over due and should be implemented straight away.

[IntegrationArch]

Agreed, we definitely do not need pvp servers and we really never did. Pve servers fullfilled the role of both. I was always able to do any pvp content in the game on pve servers.

 

if they do proper game saving consolidation like all MMOs do, SWTOR devs may need to satisfy the RP'ers with a longer chat ignore list (that must be easy to do as they drop XP/Vista clients in October that are restricted on memory.) RPers could jump on the RP instance too in a less populated planet and set that they don't want to PVP so they are not bothered. Mission Log should be kicked back to 30 or higher because it won't impact performance on W10/7 clients either. SWTOR could toggle show 25 missions or show 30 missions in settings if it impacted W7 game performance.

 

And allow Cross Faction please.

\

And give a Warning to all logins who try to migrate or create a toon on a low pop server and set a sunset date to block it some time in the future. This will concentrate populations much faster to give noobs the best reason to stay as a sub.

Edited August 16, 2017 by IntegrationArch

[Jursy]

Some of us don't want servers merged but the rest of you will never understand that. Just because you want to cue faster for things. Instead of merging servers why not have cross over for group finder instead. I picked my server for a reason if I wanted a high pop server I would of picked one. I shouldn't be forced to play on a high pop server.

 

There are many reason I don't want my server merged it's fine the way it is.

 

 

Totally agree!! I moved my toons to the light servers purposefully

[DWho]

I dont know when you started to play, but I don't think you played at launch or even in 2.0 considering your first posts are from 2017.

When it started you needed to group to do most of the planet arc missions, at least you did for the planet heroics. (The game wasn't the face roll it is now and was harder). The Heroics are part of the story Arc the same as the individual class arcs. Grouping was better if you were different classes because you could experience some of your friends story too. If they meant it to only be solo they would not have put in the ability for your fiends to be involved with your class story. They even put in the ability for same classes to be in the same group.

You have a very different view from most people on what constitutes an MMO. There is often solo story in MMOs as well as group. Group isn't just pvp and Operations. There are heroics that are part of the planet story Arc which you pretty much needed to do at launch or you wouldn't lvl up enough to do your story Arc on the next planet. Flashpoints were also needed to get better armor for your class story.

The game is so easy now that they turned off the planet Arc by default. You can face roll Heroics and most flashpoints. If anything the game is more story now than MMO and that is why it is failing, New people dont even know about the planet story Arcs unless someone tells them to enable it and most of the original vanilla content is no longer played, which is sad because in my opinion it is better than a lot of the story added since then.

If the game still had the difficulty lvl set at what it was at launch, including companions only being able to fill one role, lots of people would still need to group to get through that content.

I rarely come out and categorically use the words you are wrong, but in this case you are wrong.

 

Fine, I will concede the point to you that it was launched as an "MMO" in the way that term is used on these forums. Planetary Arcs did not require grouping though heroics did and were like mini flashpoints much like Uprisings now are like mini-Operations. This is the definition I found for an MMO on Wikipedia, not the most accurate source for information but for most things it is suitable: A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG or MMO) is an online game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players, typically from hundreds to thousands, simultaneously in the same instance (or world). MMOs usually feature a huge, persistent open world, although some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices. MMOs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres. The operative words being "can enable players to cooperate and compete". It is not a requirement of the designation.

 

For the record, I have been here since launch (founder's medal, 5 yr subscribers deco, 2018 days since first character was created, etc). I started posting much later because up to the point of server mergers, there was nothing that impacted my playstyle. The actual point of the post was that there are ways to deal with the perceived issues of the game that do not involve server mergers. The people pushing for them keep saying "it will save the game". Server mergers have never saved an MMO. It was new content or redesign that saved them.

 

The preferred server split should be at least 2 servers per coast (on large and one mid-size). I think the east coast can support 3 since it certainly appears there are more total players on the three biggest east coast servers than there are on the 2 west coast servers.

[IntegrationArch]

The preferred server split should be at least 2 servers per coast (on large and one mid-size). I think the east coast can support 3 since it certainly appears there are more total players on the three biggest east coast servers than there are on the 2 west coast servers.

 

What are you basing this East Coast able to support 2 servers (4 total NA servers)? Is there data? I suspect we need less so new toons leveling will have easy time finding same level toons to join them for Heroics, RP class help, and FP's etc.

Edited August 16, 2017 by IntegrationArch

[DWho]

What are you basing this East Coast able to support 3 servers? Is there data? I suspect we need less so new toons leveling will have same level toons to join them for Heroics, RP class help, and FP's etc.

 

I was basing it on the Torstatus data that is saying EH is basically the same size as Harb (there isn't a good way to get a solid number in game since if you search based on advanced class they are showing only the first 100 results for most if not all classes). I did some population studies a couple months back that was showing JC at about 80% of the pop of Harb over a wide time frame (I do still have the screenshots from this study - I think the thread they were originally posted in got deleted due to some of the same behavior that is starting to show up here - unfortunately they were based on fleet pop which is not the most accurate indicator of server pop). Someone else did it and came up with 75%. (Searching for the advanced classes on JC a few nights ago gave me a value of at least 1500 for that server - four of the 8 pub classes were more than 100 results and 6 of the 8 Imp classes were more than 100). At the time Shadowlands was about 50% of Harb. If I add these together I get about 2.25 x the population of Harb. With 3 servers, you would have 2 the size of Harb (which some people consider the gold standard of servers) and one smaller one. You could, I suppose squeeze that population on to 2 servers which would make them both bigger than Harb

 

Edit: Just checked JC again and at 9:00 pm server time I get at least 1357 with 8 of 16 advanced classes showing only the first 100.

Edited August 16, 2017 by DWho

[Talon_strikes]

PVP servers didn't work in the past. They are the ones that are dead right now. With less PVP population than in the past, those servers would never have enough population for queues to pop. A significant number of players queuing for warzones are casuals that don't want to PVP full time.

Please don't speak for the PvP community when you aren't a PvP'er.

 

The Fatman was the go-to server for dead server refugees in the past. It was the largest, probably only behind Harbinger. When server transfers happened and then ultimately merges, Fatman was dying and then got consolidated into Pot5. Pot5 was a great server where all the PvP'ers settled on (with a few on Bastion) and PvP queue popped all the time. WPvP even happened occasionally.

 

It wasn't until PvP/PvE instances killed PvP servers. On top of that a lack of MMO content starting in 2014, the DvL event (people started leveling alts on the highest populated servers), and then discounted server transfers where everyone jumped ship to the highest populated servers (Harbinger for NA and TRE for EU) on their main toons so they could get queue pops.

[DWho]

Please don't speak for the PvP community when you aren't a PvP'er.

 

The Fatman was the go-to server for dead server refugees in the past. It was the largest, probably only behind Harbinger. When server transfers happened and then ultimately merges, Fatman was dying and then got consolidated into Pot5. Pot5 was a great server where all the PvP'ers settled on (with a few on Bastion) and PvP queue popped all the time. WPvP even happened occasionally.

 

It wasn't until PvP/PvE instances killed PvP servers. On top of that a lack of MMO content starting in 2014, the DvL event (people started leveling alts on the highest populated servers), and then discounted server transfers where everyone jumped ship to the highest populated servers (Harbinger for NA and TRE for EU) on their main toons so they could get queue pops.

 

As long as we agree they are dead and not coming back I'm fine with whatever reasons you have for their demise all those years ago.

[Ylliarus]

I am going to post one last post in this thread as a piece of advice to all of us, an advice that I myself am going to try to heed (unless provoked to respond). Stop posting in this thread or discussing this subject any further, stay put and wait for Bioware to release a statement as to what will be the path ahead with Server Merges. Because this thread is filled to the brim with self-righteous people who are confident they're the ones that have the 100% truth in their hands. I am not going to name names or shame anyone, but I believe everyone knows of their own behaviour and whether "self-righteous" applies to them or not.

 

But truly, discussing this subject any further is pointless as no one is willing to move or budge from their spot and how productive is that? Just wait and see how some people will take this post now and immediately start pointing fingers "they're the ones that don't want to budge and are stubborn". Do such and you prove my point 100% how everyone in this thread is deluding themselves of having the 100% truth. People like me hold onto what the Bioware Influencers say, other people hold onto what Keith said during the interview. Both of us could be completely wrong, as the Influencers may be just making assumptions on their own observations but the interview with Keith might have been his personal thoughts about the subject, not what the rest of the Dev team is in favour of. Just remember, Keith is not alone in decision-making, if his "against" is overruled by a majority in favour of forced server merges he can be against it all he wants but it will be the direction that the game will go. Naturally the same applies to the Influencers, they may be able to influence certain thoughts or directions but not fully determine them.

 

Now, let's all just shut up collectively about this subject, sit down and wait for any announcement to be made. Because truly, debating this issue any further is pointless and if you do decide to do it then that is not you being right, but it's only your own overconfidence that just HAS to prove the others they're right.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Ylliarus

[masterceil]

I am going to post one last post in this thread as a piece of advice to all of us, an advice that I myself am going to try to heed (unless provoked to respond). Stop posting in this thread or discussing this subject any further, stay put and wait for Bioware to release a statement as to what will be the path ahead with Server Merges. Because this thread is filled to the brim with self-righteous people who are confident they're the ones that have the 100% truth in their hands. I am not going to name names or shame anyone, but I believe everyone knows of their own behaviour and whether "self-righteous" applies to them or not.

 

But truly, discussing this subject any further is pointless as no one is willing to move or budge from their spot and how productive is that? Just wait and see how some people will take this post now and immediately start pointing fingers "they're the ones that don't want to budge and are stubborn". Do such and you prove my point 100% how everyone in this thread is deluding themselves of having the 100% truth. People like me hold onto what the Bioware Influencers say, other people hold onto what Keith said during the interview. Both of us could be completely wrong, as the Influencers may be just making assumptions on their own observations but the interview with Keith might have been his personal thoughts about the subject, not what the rest of the Dev team is in favour of. Just remember, Keith is not alone in decision-making, if his "against" is overruled by a majority in favour of forced server merges he can be against it all he wants but it will be the direction that the game will go. Naturally the same applies to the Influencers, they may be able to influence certain thoughts or directions but not fully determine them.

 

Now, let's all just shut up collectively about this subject, sit down and wait for any announcement to be made. Because truly, debating this issue any further is pointless and if you do decide to do it then that is not you being right, but it's only your own overconfidence that just HAS to prove the others they're right.

 

No, you.

[Andryah]

Agreed, we definitely do not need pvp servers and we really never did. Pve servers fullfilled the role of both. I was always able to do any pvp content in the game on pve servers.

 

I agree, we do not need actual PvP designated servers.

 

And while I am supportive of the RPers in wanting hassle free RP, I'm not certain we need a server that is flagged as RP either. But there does need to be a server where RPers tend to aggregate as like minded community.... it just does not need an RP tag on it since the studio has never enforced RP on RP servers.

 

What we DO need however is more then one server in each geographic region. Why? Because if players are all forced on to one server and they find that servers community to be toxic (as has been discussed endlessly in this thread), players need to have the ability to move to a different server to avoid this if they choose. If there is only one server to play on, then if toxic things happen it pretty much forces players to choose to either suck it up and take the harassment... or leave the game completlely.

 

Two servers in NA West, NA East, and EU would probably suffice the game at this point in time, but it also would leave limited headroom for any population influx that comes if/when Keith moves the game in the direction so many demand. My general feeling is there should be 3 servers in each geo region and if one of them is lightly populated that is fine as there are players on record in this discussion that have made it clear they do not want to be on a heavily populated server.

 

All that said.. there is really little harm in leaving the old PvP servers online for now. So what if they are largely empty of activity. And as we all know.. nobody is forced to stay on any server, and have access to perpetual 90cc transfers. And they certainly would not represent any sort of injection of new active players into other servers.... because they ARE largely inactive. And any sensible new player can and will do a google search to figure out which servers are active and where certain play (PvP and OPs) are more common, so I do not accept the "strawman concern" for new players.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Andryah

[kodrac]

You need to find a way to increase game population not just consolidate a shrinking number of players.

 

Ooh, I got an idea for that: stuff to do. And, no, mindlessly grinding CXP is not stuff.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Why? Because if players are all forced on to one server and they find that servers community to be toxic (as has been discussed endlessly in this thread), players need to have the ability to move to a different server to avoid this if they choose. If there is only one server to play on, then if toxic things happen it pretty much forces players to choose to either suck it up and take the harassment... or leave the game completlely.

 

The BETTER solution would be BWA actually do something to make servers more hospitable and address the toxic parts of it, enforce rules etc. Game mods would be a good start for chat at least.

 

Chat type toxicity is easily avoided as is with ignore, private chat room or just turning off gen chat. Private small scale RP can be done in strongholds and maybe other instanced areas (never tested).

 

I guess I don't entirely understand what other forms of toxicity affect players (RPers for example) that they may not be able to avoid beforeo ffering possible solution as suggestions.

 

Imo there should be more BWA can do to create larger, friendly communities without having to cater to people by making multiple servers to get away from an issue they have failed to address in the first place.

 

That's ideally the worst possible solution from a public perspective as they water down their community whilst providing an image of them not actually caring enough about their community to do anything about the toxic parts of it.

[Icykill_]

Ooh, I got an idea for that: stuff to do. And, no, mindlessly grinding CXP is not stuff.

 

Agreed ^

[Tealamek]

Mega Servers

 

Rock on!

[fushnchips]

Mega Servers

 

Rock on!

 

yeah the faster the better

[IntegrationArch]

Mega Servers

 

Rock on!

 

The sooner the better!

[DWho]

The sooner the better!

 

The later the better

[Naholen]

How do you expect for toon names to be handled? Merging will mean a lot of people will have to rename their chars.

[casirabit]

How do you expect for toon names to be handled? Merging will mean a lot of people will have to rename their chars.

 

They haven't decided on anything yet. They have stated that mergers will not happen until they can figure out how to transfer guilds intact with all their stuff (strongholds,etc) and personal assets as well and naming has been mentioned as well.