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Engi snipers > Nerf pls.


Alex_York

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Give their aoe a cooldown. Fixed. Doesnt have to be super long, but a small one would be great. Or remove the 70% slow.

 

+1 and not allow them to throw it and leave in single spot.

All other classes mus cast or channel their aoe so really there is no reson for snipers that they can spot plasma probe and go to other place.

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Nerf everything 😢

 

People constantly calling for nerfs instead of asking for balancing other classes with some buffs.

 

I'm just relearning engineering after not using it for over 4 years. I can tell you it is the more complicated of the 3 sniper specs to play properly.

 

They are also still killable if you focus them and watch for the buffs and CDs. It's the same with Juggs, Sorc and Mercs? If you don't watch those buffs you can waste a whole lot of effort that doesn't do damage.

People still pound away on my Force bubble and waste their procs, people still bring me back to full health on my Jugg and Merc.

 

Of all the classes, snipers are the least mobile, they need more DPS and defence vs lack of mobility.

I find out of all my classes, My Fury Mara is the best to engage and kill snipers because of the high burst and mobility/survivability. Unless the sniper is a master sniper I will normally kill the sniper.

 

I don't even think Mercs need a nerf, even though I won't play mine till it's no longer FOTM.

What is needed is some small buffs to other classes that are underperforming. Jugg DPS need some of the mobility back that they nerfed away.. Sorc DPS (especially lightning need a small increase in burst)..

Maras are fine

Sins are fine

Operatives are fine

Snipers are fine

Mercs are fine

PTs, I think are fine, but it's my least played class.

 

In a stand up 1v1 DPS fight, Mercs still pump out more dps than a engineering sniper because engineering is more AOE than 1v1. If there is LoS around and the Merc is smart, they should never lose.

A sniper is really the only class that can try and control Mercs behaviour in a group battle by making them retreat or LoS more. They stop Mercs from trying to face tank the rest of the team instead of playing like a ranged class should.

 

What I've found interesting about playing an engineering sniper is the amount of people who just let you free cast all match. You don't let Sorcs free cast and chase them everywhere to kill them. Why the hell would you let a less mobile sniper free cast all match. I can straight up tell you I'm nearly unkillable in a reasonable time on my Lightning Sorc in a 1v1 if I've got some LoS. People either give up because it's taking so long or I hold them up for so long before they finally kill me that it's been extremely detrimental to their team.

 

As per usual it's people needing to learn tactics and what a classes abilities are to counter them. Once you know a classes abilities and what to look for, they aren't as god like to you as they may appear on the surface.

The best advice for anyone calling a class Op is to go and learn to play one against good players, not the current fodder in pvp. Play some 1v1 pvp against some good people on a fleet ship or SH and see how things really are.

 

Reg objective pvp won't tell you or make you that good.

Edited by Icykill_
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Nerf everything 😢

 

People constantly calling for nerfs instead of asking for balancing other classes with some buffs.

 

I'm just relearning engineering after not using it for over 4 years. I can tell you it is the more complicated of the 3 sniper specs to play properly.

 

They are also still killable if you focus them and watch for the buffs and CDs. It's the same with Juggs, Sorc and Mercs? If you don't watch those buffs you can waste a whole lot of effort that doesn't do damage.

People still pound away on my Force bubble and waste their procs, people still bring me back to full health on my Jugg and Merc.

 

Of all the classes, snipers are the least mobile, they need more DPS and defence vs lack of mobility.

I find out of all my classes, My Fury Mara is the best to engage and kill snipers because of the high burst and mobility/survivability. Unless the sniper is a master sniper I will normally kill the sniper.

 

I don't even think Mercs need a nerf, even though I won't play mine till it's no longer FOTM.

What is needed is some small buffs to other classes that are underperforming. Jugg DPS need some of the mobility back that they nerfed away.. Sorc DPS (especially lightning need a small increase in burst)..

Maras are fine

Sins are fine

Operatives are fine

Snipers are fine

Mercs are fine

PTs, I think are fine, but it's my least played class.

 

In a stand up 1v1 DPS fight, Mercs still pump out more dps than a engineering sniper because engineering is more AOE than 1v1. If there is LoS around and the Merc is smart, they should never lose.

A sniper is really the only class that can try and control Mercs behaviour in a group battle by making them retreat or LoS more. They stop Mercs from trying to face tank the rest of the team instead of playing like a ranged class should.

 

What I've found interesting about playing an engineering sniper is the amount of people who just let you free cast all match. You don't let Sorcs free cast and chase them everywhere to kill them. Why the hell would you let a less mobile sniper free cast all match. I can straight up tell you I'm nearly unkillable in a reasonable time on my Lightning Sorc in a 1v1 if I've got some LoS. People either give up because it's taking so long or I hold them up for so long before they finally kill me that it's been extremely detrimental to their team.

 

As per usual it's people needing to learn tactics and what a classes abilities are to counter them. Once you know a classes abilities and what to look for, they aren't as god like to you as they may appear on the surface.

The best advice for anyone calling a class Op is to go and learn to play one against good players, not the current fodder in pvp. Play some 1v1 pvp against some good people on a fleet ship or SH and see how things really are.

 

Reg objective pvp won't tell you or make you that good.

 

Its nothing major imo. The real issue is the multiple aoe snare the sniper can keep readjusting. With mine I single handily choked a team in voidstar when I kept readjusting my probe as I ran, doing KB in the bottlenecks, rooting, stunning, snaring at will.

 

Simply slapping a 9 second cooldown on the probe will settle the issue. Its going to still provide a good bottleneck effect, but not as ridiculous as it can be right now. Alternatively, you'd need to lower to snare to the average 30% that all other "permanent snare" effect provide, and leave the thing as it is. Both can work, but I know I,d rather keep the 70% snare on mine.

 

Also when you consider the rather fast reloading stun and 2 additionnal snare/root sniper has, + a possible very powerful single target 80% snare on SoS, you are not lacking in that department.

 

I however kinda like where sniper is, and I believe its the level all class should be at. Lots of tools that fits its playstyle, good skill level required to truly shine with it, and if focused correctly can still go down somewhat fast, as the "immunity" time is less than 10 seconds, but its not lacking defensives to attempt to get out of it.

Edited by verfallen
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Its nothing major imo. The real issue is the multiple aoe snare the sniper can keep readjusting. With mine I single handily choked a team in voidstar when I kept readjusting my probe as I ran, doing KB in the bottlenecks, rooting, stunning, snaring at will.

 

Simply slapping a 9 second cooldown on the probe will settle the issue. Its going to still provide a good bottleneck effect, but not as ridiculous as it can be right now. Alternatively, you'd need to lower to snare to the average 30% that all other "permanent snare" effect provide, and leave the thing as it is. Both can work, but I know I,d rather keep the 70% snare on mine.

 

Also when you consider the rather fast reloading stun and 2 additionnal snare/root sniper has, + a possible very powerful single target 80% snare on SoS, you are not lacking in that department.

 

I however kinda like where sniper is, and I believe its the level all class should be at. Lots of tools that fits its playstyle, good skill level required to truly shine with it, and if focused correctly can still go down somewhat fast, as the "immunity" time is less than 10 seconds, but its not lacking defensives to attempt to get out of it.

 

Exactly. Every other class either A. Cannot move while channeling the aoe, or B. Has a cooldown. While Plasma probe is part of their rotation, it can still be part of their rotation with a cooldown. There was no reason to increase the radius , AND increase the slow.

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Exactly. Every other class either A. Cannot move while channeling the aoe, or B. Has a cooldown. While Plasma probe is part of their rotation, it can still be part of their rotation with a cooldown. There was no reason to increase the radius , AND increase the slow.

 

But other classes don't have to constantly be in cover and sit there while being attacked. If they have more roots or longer ones, then it's to make up for being less mobile. Also what about Mercs, most of their hard hitting abilities are instant and they do have some small AOE instants, Madness Sorc AOE is instant (except FS). Plasma probe really isn't any different to other dot spec spreading by other classes.

Instead of nerfing that, how about buffing some other classes. I can tell you these abilities should be no problem for a Mercs or Sorcs to deal with. The other classes (except Juggs) all have lots of ways to escape the slow affect. Operatives and Sins also have a crap load of slows or roots. How about how OPs can stop you turning to interrupt when they root you. That's about as unfair of an ability there is in the game because there is no defence if they do it right. They are also the most mobile class in the game. Without the snipers current abilities they'd never be able to engage an operative.

I honestly don't think any class needs a nerf, but some others definitely need some buffs.

We need to ask for buffs in this game not Nerfs, Bio always over nerf.

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Nerf everything 😢

 

People constantly calling for nerfs instead of asking for balancing other classes with some buffs.

 

I'm just relearning engineering after not using it for over 4 years. I can tell you it is the more complicated of the 3 sniper specs to play properly.

 

They are also still killable if you focus them and watch for the buffs and CDs. It's the same with Juggs, Sorc and Mercs? If you don't watch those buffs you can waste a whole lot of effort that doesn't do damage.

People still pound away on my Force bubble and waste their procs, people still bring me back to full health on my Jugg and Merc.

 

Of all the classes, snipers are the least mobile, they need more DPS and defence vs lack of mobility.

I find out of all my classes, My Fury Mara is the best to engage and kill snipers because of the high burst and mobility/survivability. Unless the sniper is a master sniper I will normally kill the sniper.

 

I don't even think Mercs need a nerf, even though I won't play mine till it's no longer FOTM.

What is needed is some small buffs to other classes that are underperforming. Jugg DPS need some of the mobility back that they nerfed away.. Sorc DPS (especially lightning need a small increase in burst)..

Maras are fine

Sins are fine

Operatives are fine

Snipers are fine

Mercs are fine

PTs, I think are fine, but it's my least played class.

 

In a stand up 1v1 DPS fight, Mercs still pump out more dps than a engineering sniper because engineering is more AOE than 1v1. If there is LoS around and the Merc is smart, they should never lose.

A sniper is really the only class that can try and control Mercs behaviour in a group battle by making them retreat or LoS more. They stop Mercs from trying to face tank the rest of the team instead of playing like a ranged class should.

 

What I've found interesting about playing an engineering sniper is the amount of people who just let you free cast all match. You don't let Sorcs free cast and chase them everywhere to kill them. Why the hell would you let a less mobile sniper free cast all match. I can straight up tell you I'm nearly unkillable in a reasonable time on my Lightning Sorc in a 1v1 if I've got some LoS. People either give up because it's taking so long or I hold them up for so long before they finally kill me that it's been extremely detrimental to their team.

 

As per usual it's people needing to learn tactics and what a classes abilities are to counter them. Once you know a classes abilities and what to look for, they aren't as god like to you as they may appear on the surface.

The best advice for anyone calling a class Op is to go and learn to play one against good players, not the current fodder in pvp. Play some 1v1 pvp against some good people on a fleet ship or SH and see how things really are.

 

Reg objective pvp won't tell you or make you that good.

 

 

so we should buff all other classes to have no cooldown on there free movement skills?

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Reading some of the replies in this thread just makes me chuckle.

Do you really think Plasma Probe should exist the way it does right now?

 

Lol. Get outta here.

 

Other than the probe though, I wouldn't be so hasty in tackling anything else.

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so we should buff all other classes to have no cooldown on there free movement skills?

 

LoL, that's not what I said, you've taken it completely out of context. Some classes are fine as they are and there are some that need buffs. Nerfing everything to balance only makes it worse. Better to slowly buff classes to balance and then if something really stands out to much, then make very small downward adjustments, but that should be the last thing that's done or we end up with some classes being over buffed vs others being over nerfed. Then the problem is still the same, just in reverse.

I also never even brought up CD on free movement, so not sure where you got that from. Lots of classes already have plenty of movement breaks besides their main stun break. Some have more than others. I think Juggs have it the worst and I would like to see the movement nerf from 5.0 reversed.

Everyone was so fast to call for Merc Nerfs until people worked out how to counter them. Now people are asking for engineering nerfs because people haven't learned how to deal with them. What most fail to understand is people have started to use engineering as a way to counter all the Mercs. Lots of snipers have swapped from marksmanship to do just that.

So there lays the problem. People have been so used to dealing with mostly marksman snipers that they've not come up against this many engineering snipers before, so they have less experience in dealing with them. This happens with every class that nerfs are called for. People just need time to learn to play against them. It's happened with just about every class since launch and most of the time it fixes itself when people get used to playing against that class.

The easiest way to learn to counter a class or spec is to roll one and learn it.

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But other classes don't have to constantly be in cover and sit there while being attacked. If they have more roots or longer ones, then it's to make up for being less mobile. Also what about Mercs, most of their hard hitting abilities are instant and they do have some small AOE instants, Madness Sorc AOE is instant (except FS). Plasma probe really isn't any different to other dot spec spreading by other classes.

Instead of nerfing that, how about buffing some other classes. I can tell you these abilities should be no problem for a Mercs or Sorcs to deal with. The other classes (except Juggs) all have lots of ways to escape the slow affect. Operatives and Sins also have a crap load of slows or roots. How about how OPs can stop you turning to interrupt when they root you. That's about as unfair of an ability there is in the game because there is no defence if they do it right. They are also the most mobile class in the game. Without the snipers current abilities they'd never be able to engage an operative.

I honestly don't think any class needs a nerf, but some others definitely need some buffs.

We need to ask for buffs in this game not Nerfs, Bio always over nerf.

 

The other two specs can deal with operatives just fine. Dirty fighting is much more difficult, but it is possible. There is no logical reasoning to giving a class with some pretty intense burst an 8 meter spammable aoe with a 70 % slow . None. You get two engi snipers together, and they can slow the ENTIRE objective in.....pretty much every map. The size either needs to be reduced to where it used to be, the slow needs to go, or if people are not willing to part with either, it needs a cooldown.

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But other classes don't have to constantly be in cover and sit there while being attacked. If they have more roots or longer ones, then it's to make up for being less mobile. Also what about Mercs, most of their hard hitting abilities are instant and they do have some small AOE instants, Madness Sorc AOE is instant (except FS). Plasma probe really isn't any different to other dot spec spreading by other classes.

Instead of nerfing that, how about buffing some other classes. I can tell you these abilities should be no problem for a Mercs or Sorcs to deal with. The other classes (except Juggs) all have lots of ways to escape the slow affect. Operatives and Sins also have a crap load of slows or roots. How about how OPs can stop you turning to interrupt when they root you. That's about as unfair of an ability there is in the game because there is no defence if they do it right. They are also the most mobile class in the game. Without the snipers current abilities they'd never be able to engage an operative.

I honestly don't think any class needs a nerf, but some others definitely need some buffs.

We need to ask for buffs in this game not Nerfs, Bio always over nerf.

 

That post is so full of mistakes its staggering.

 

First, the issue with PP has never been its dps. Its the snare and snare radius.

 

2nd, DoT spread is given to class that even with it cannot beat an engineering sniper aoeing a given area in term of pressure dps. Orbital, probe, getting someone in the pack stacked with Electrified railgun, then IP and EMP discharge then a little frag grenade for energy, and suppressive fire to soak up the spares.

 

3rd - Sniper mobility is not like other classes, as its not a mobility to fire on the move, but to get out of a hotzone and replant where its less heavy. And in that, they are extremely mobile. I'm sure you've seen some good snipers carry balls in hutball and moving darn fast, immune to root CCs and such as they moved. A sniper that is hailtailing out cannot be caught by many class, perhaps operatives aside. Then the rest of their tool, Plasma probe non-withstanding, keep targets off them a while again. Proof of the matter, is Marksman do pretty fine without PP at keeping targets off their back

 

4th - most class baseline has 1-2 ways to purge movement impairing effects. Some 0. Its all mostly specced into it with utilities, and for the most part, you have to leave offensive snares or extra defensive elsewhere for it. Lightning sorc, for exemple may be the class that depends the most on kting, and only can get out once every 15 seconds (20 if not specced into surging speed), unless you consider that using phase walk just to escape a spammable snare a good idea, thus preventing them their 2nd biggest escape on a 1 minute cooldown. Unless you think no cd snare vs 1 minute cooldown to get out of it seems balanced?

 

And lets be honest, a sorc that tries to facetank a sniper isnt going to last long.

 

For the rest, operatives are hard to pin down,but right now its the only thing they have for them (the tactical advantage mechanic prevents them from quickly self-healing at will, and hurts their dps doing so, lethality having an advantage there) Similar to sorc, they lack hard defensive cooldowns out of evasion and shield probe, and rely heavily on those. Shield probe is very minor in its absorbtion, only soaking 1 or 2 hits, and evasion contrary to sniper's one doesnt last as long and doesnt reduce tech/force damage (which is engi's main damage (tech)). At best its going to be reflected, which will still kill them, but they get to smile at the bunch of damage you take in return. And its a legendary utility.

 

A merc as said can deal with not kiting currently, and YOU are the one that shouldnt be facetanking one. But mercs are also brokenly OP defensively wise right now, I think everyone with a clue about PvP balance agrees with that.

 

About sin and op snares and root, they actually don't have too many of those. Operative have one root, I'm not even sure they have a snare harder than 30%. Sin have ONE and no root, unless specced into the root on overload, and its 50% unless specced into the extra 20%, and single target with a cooldown. The rest are mez and stuns, which sniper also has. Your hard stun and 8 second mez actually have shorter cooldowns than a sin's. Deception's low slash is a mez.

 

One big thing right now is root and snares aren't affected by resolve, mez and stuns are. So whitelined people get mostly immune to whatever a sin can do, and to most of the operative's tools too, the "can't turn around" excluded, but sniper's entrench makes you totally immune to that.

 

If you have trouble killing operatives without your plasma probe, the issue isn't the operative, that I can assure you.

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I'm not going brother pulling apart your post with a massive response. You are entitled to your opinion. I just want clarify that I was generalising about operatives and backstab. Not specifically saying I had any issue with them or even a problem with them on my snipers, I don't. I wanted to point out that they have the most unfair mechanic in the game vs other classes perceived unfair mechanics.
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So what I don't get is this class and spec has been here since 5.0 was released. There has been zero buffs or nerfs in that time. But all of a sudden they are OP because more people are playing them and you guys can't deal with it.

What's made them OP all of a sudden after 4 months of play? Why didn't we have these threads 3 or 4 months ago?

Because you were all focused on Mercs being OP and everyone rolling them. Now one of the more complicated specs in the game is being used by competent people, they are OP. Have you ever thought that it's the competent people making them OP and not just the class itself.

 

Honestly you guys and your calls for nerfs when a class gets to hard for you to face roll easy. Youve called for nerfs to Mercs since 5.0 and people tell you they are fine, then 3 months later most of you realise they arent the massive problem you all thought they were. Now you decide to poke the sniper bear with your nerf talk when they are perfectly fine. Next thing you'll be saying Maras are OP or Operatives or Sins are OP, it never ends. This is why we never have any balance in this game because people don't try and figure out a counter or tactics to such perceived problems.

 

Learn to play all the classes properly and you'll know their weaknesses and how to counter them. That's what I do.

As an example I was having an issue with a few PTs the other week and I couldn't understand why because I was fine against 99%. Normally I put that down to them being exceptional players, but this was like I'd never played against a PT before. So I jumped on a PT, came to the forums about some advice I was after in regards to utilities and started to relearn the spec from the ground up. I soon found out why I was having an issue with a few PTs and it was the tactics and utilities these few guys were using, not the class. I was able to jump back to my other classes and work out a counter. It's the same with any class, we all have multiple utilities now and when some good players find a mix that isn't the normal one it can make any class look OP. For that matter any class becomes OP in the hands of someone with some skill. What I didn't do is come straight here and call for nerfs, especially as I haven't perfected the class myself to understand it's strengths and weaknesses.

 

What I think a lot of you are missing is engineering is one of the more complicated specs to play well in this game. Mediocre engineering snipers go down easy and are really no threat, it's the good ones you are having issues with. Good players often gravitate to the more complicated specs so they have a challenge. So it's more the players that are making this spec OP because the good players have enough skill make the spec work. Mediocre players have difficulty playing the spec properly and die relatively easy.

I think you guys need to ask yourself, is it the class or the more skilled players on the class?

 

I'm sure if you put the same skilled players on any of the more complex specs in the game, even if the majority of players think the class is under performing, you'd be here saying the class was OP. I know I still get told Sorcs are OP because lots of good people still play them and the people still playing them aren't the sort that need to be OP to play them well and haven't instantly jumped to the easiest FOTM spec.

 

People complaining if you get a couple of snipers together they are unstoppable should also realise that if you get a couple of any class together and they know what they are doing, then they become OP as hell. How many of you have come up against 2-4 Sins or Operatives all working in tandem or 4 Sorcs or 2-3 Juggs or even 2 Maras. If those players focus and work together those classes seem OP.

I've noticed a lot more Sins and Operative rerolls that are running in packs. I see more Maras running in packs, more marksman snipers running in packsmore Sorc healers running in packs 🙄 And let's not for get the 8 man Merc teams 😉. What I don't see is engineering snipers running in packs because they aren't the easiest class to play well.

 

I hate it when people tell me to learn to play because I find it insulting and so should anyone, so I don't use it very often. But I will say get some experience on the class before calling for nerfs. If you find it really easy to play and you are blowing everything up by face rolling the keyboard and not dying, then come and ask for nerfs. I think I've seen one person who plays the spec besides myself actually post anything.

 

If people are also only basing this OP basis on Ranked, then that's also stupid because we all know that it's not balanced and there are only ever 4 classes that are viable and you are essentially putting the best players on the hardest spec to play some of the FOTM players who think they are the best. Put 4 really skilled Sins in a match against people and see how OP they are or 3 dps Sorc and a healer Sorc. It's all relative based on skill and class complexity.

 

I know what I've said is controversial and 99% of you will disagree and I'm sorry if I've offended some of you, it wasn't my intention. But I come to this conclusion after seeing the ups and downs of every class in this game after 5 years. Nerfs are the last thing that should ever be called for. You should be asking for better balance on the other classes and taking into account the complexity a class takes to play and what skill lvl it takes to play well. The more complex it is to play well, the higher the skill lvl those players have. Once again it comes down to the old adage of skill vs skill and class complexity vs skill. Player skills can be OP, should we nerf them next?

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Reply post #18, not going to quote that wall of bullstuff here.

 

Icy dear, I very much challenge you to learn to play around Plasma Probe. We aren't talking about Snipers here in general, we're talking about one ability, that

  1. is relocateable without a cooldown,
  2. has a 70% AoE slow effect to it,
  3. once placed, remains there until it expires, ignoring any kind of counterplay,
  4. has an 8m range.

 

Lots of bad players are on Engineering, they are quite easy to kill, just like the stupidly facetanking Mercs. It's not one player that cannot be handled, it's that there's 2-3 of them in every gosh darn wz, along with 2-3 Mercs, and it's getting a little tiring, especially if you're trying to play a melee.

 

The reason why the outcry is now and not before, is because when 5.0 came around, Mercs were announced (by the community, in advance) to be the new FotM, and they lived up to the expectation; easy yet very powerful defensives combined with one of the best single target bursts, good kiting capability and last but not least Electro Net is what made them so powerful. Now people have probably got bored of them or found out that trolling others with a 8m 70% slow that also does AoE damage, along with a ranged stun, is about close to being a Merc. Not the same, but even Mercs get boring, right?

 

Maras are powerful, but they require skill to play, and have some counterplay. Bad Maras are useless, easy kills and are worth what any bad player should: nothing. But in case of an Engineering Sniper, one can bring great utilities to a fight even if they're bad: spamming Plasma Probe in the middle of the enemy team does not require any skill, at all, but gives the whole team a great advantage, with almost rooting the whole enemy team.

 

Yes, stacking any class, especially if done by good players, can make them seem OP. But in the case of these 2, and who knows what else the community will discover later, these specs make it easy, even for otherwise awful players to perform way over their skill.

 

Do you honestly have the guts to come here and claim it's those 10-20 players that are good on their classes that cause all these threads to pop up? I almost feel something is wrong when there aren't at least 4 of these 2 specs (Arsenal and Engineering) on my team.

 

No, the masses flock to these specs not because they want a challenge (those who do still play Pyro, Lightning and stuff like that), they do so because these are the easiest to achieve results with.

 

Don't you find it funny that, while Death Field (that was never, ever, even at its best comparable to Plasma Probe) has been nerfed and reduced to 5 meters, while PP got buffed to 8, especially since Snipers already have two 8 meter AoEs?

 

And no, don't buff anything to this level. Stop with this CC nonsense. And fix resolve. It's plain ridiculous.

Edited by Schoock
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Nerf everything 😢

 

People constantly calling for nerfs instead of asking for balancing other classes with some buffs.

 

I'm just relearning engineering after not using it for over 4 years. I can tell you it is the more complicated of the 3 sniper specs to play properly.

 

They are also still killable if you focus them and watch for the buffs and CDs. It's the same with Juggs, Sorc and Mercs? If you don't watch those buffs you can waste a whole lot of effort that doesn't do damage.

People still pound away on my Force bubble and waste their procs, people still bring me back to full health on my Jugg and Merc.

 

Of all the classes, snipers are the least mobile, they need more DPS and defence vs lack of mobility.

I find out of all my classes, My Fury Mara is the best to engage and kill snipers because of the high burst and mobility/survivability. Unless the sniper is a master sniper I will normally kill the sniper.

 

I don't even think Mercs need a nerf, even though I won't play mine till it's no longer FOTM.

What is needed is some small buffs to other classes that are underperforming. Jugg DPS need some of the mobility back that they nerfed away.. Sorc DPS (especially lightning need a small increase in burst)..

Maras are fine

Sins are fine

Operatives are fine

Snipers are fine

Mercs are fine

PTs, I think are fine, but it's my least played class.

 

In a stand up 1v1 DPS fight, Mercs still pump out more dps than a engineering sniper because engineering is more AOE than 1v1. If there is LoS around and the Merc is smart, they should never lose.

A sniper is really the only class that can try and control Mercs behaviour in a group battle by making them retreat or LoS more. They stop Mercs from trying to face tank the rest of the team instead of playing like a ranged class should.

 

What I've found interesting about playing an engineering sniper is the amount of people who just let you free cast all match. You don't let Sorcs free cast and chase them everywhere to kill them. Why the hell would you let a less mobile sniper free cast all match. I can straight up tell you I'm nearly unkillable in a reasonable time on my Lightning Sorc in a 1v1 if I've got some LoS. People either give up because it's taking so long or I hold them up for so long before they finally kill me that it's been extremely detrimental to their team.

 

As per usual it's people needing to learn tactics and what a classes abilities are to counter them. Once you know a classes abilities and what to look for, they aren't as god like to you as they may appear on the surface.

The best advice for anyone calling a class Op is to go and learn to play one against good players, not the current fodder in pvp. Play some 1v1 pvp against some good people on a fleet ship or SH and see how things really are.

 

Reg objective pvp won't tell you or make you that good.

 

Heal when hit has no business being on DPS classes period! Not only is it a guaranteed heal for a least some because some one inevitably attacks. Happens all the time I even do it they pop it right when i fire off ball lighting first one usually don't trigger heal but 2nd one does. can't be helped I can't not fire the 2nd one its automatic when it procs! Secondly, Heal when dmg forces other classes too22 basically NOT ATTACK whilst their target is free to lambaste you with there's. Yeah being a sin I can cloak IF its up and IF i'm not dotted (rolls eyes good luck with that happening) DPS specs should never get heals on dmg or if you have to EVERY DPS spec gets it! Third I can't control what others do so yeah I may very well not attack but someone else always does! The fact is Merc and sniper are OP yes you can beat them when the stars all ine up for you and maybe a sacrifice to the pvp gods but for the most part the deck is stacked against you from the start evidence by the pure volume of how many are playing these crutch classes. You don't have to be good you just have to pop shields and let your team mates carry you. Whats worse is that throw 5 or six mercs in the mix and the match is a complete and utter sham! Merc and sniper break the trinity and to some degree so does jug, but it has been reined in bit, but until bioware pulls their collective heads from their #$^(@ and either balance's the classes or revamp's the queuing system to limit X number from joining a match nothing will change and you will just have people playing crutch classes because it's an automatic win 90% of the time.

Edited by Kazz_Devlin
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Reply post #18, not going to quote that wall of bullstuff here.

 

Icy dear, I very much challenge you to learn to play around Plasma Probe. We aren't talking about Snipers here in general, we're talking about one ability, that

  1. is relocateable without a cooldown,
  2. has a 70% AoE slow effect to it,
  3. once placed, remains there until it expires, ignoring any kind of counterplay,
  4. has an 8m range.

 

Lots of bad players are on Engineering, they are quite easy to kill, just like the stupidly facetanking Mercs. It's not one player that cannot be handled, it's that there's 2-3 of them in every gosh darn wz, along with 2-3 Mercs, and it's getting a little tiring, especially if you're trying to play a melee.

 

The reason why the outcry is now and not before, is because when 5.0 came around, Mercs were announced (by the community, in advance) to be the new FotM, and they lived up to the expectation; easy yet very powerful defensives combined with one of the best single target bursts, good kiting capability and last but not least Electro Net is what made them so powerful. Now people have probably got bored of them or found out that trolling others with a 8m 70% slow that also does AoE damage, along with a ranged stun, is about close to being a Merc. Not the same, but even Mercs get boring, right?

 

Maras are powerful, but they require skill to play, and have some counterplay. Bad Maras are useless, easy kills and are worth what any bad player should: nothing. But in case of an Engineering Sniper, one can bring great utilities to a fight even if they're bad: spamming Plasma Probe in the middle of the enemy team does not require any skill, at all, but gives the whole team a great advantage, with almost rooting the whole enemy team.

 

Yes, stacking any class, especially if done by good players, can make them seem OP. But in the case of these 2, and who knows what else the community will discover later, these specs make it easy, even for otherwise awful players to perform way over their skill.

 

Do you honestly have the guts to come here and claim it's those 10-20 players that are good on their classes that cause all these threads to pop up? I almost feel something is wrong when there aren't at least 4 of these 2 specs (Arsenal and Engineering) on my team.

 

No, the masses flock to these specs not because they want a challenge (those who do still play Pyro, Lightning and stuff like that), they do so because these are the easiest to achieve results with.

 

Don't you find it funny that, while Death Field (that was never, ever, even at its best comparable to Plasma Probe) has been nerfed and reduced to 5 meters, while PP got buffed to 8, especially since Snipers already have two 8 meter AoEs?

 

And no, don't buff anything to this level. Stop with this CC nonsense. And fix resolve. It's plain ridiculous.

 

Blame the players for stacking it if it's becoming tiring, not the class. There are so many Mercs and Snipers are the obvious counter to them.

 

I do agree that resolve needs to be fixed. I'd even be in favour of plasma probe adding to resolve as long as lots of other classes slows and roots do the same. I've been against all the cc in the game for a long time, but if they are going to have it with every spec and give most classes ways to break it or override them due to utility choices, then I feel Plasma Probe is fine as is. "Maybe " the radius could be reduced a little, but not much or what's the point in trying to keep melee far enough away to escape getting globalled.

 

The biggest problem in pvp is class stacking by people. When people run 3-4 man premade of the same class, the balance gets thrown in a big way. I could easily be calling for Sin nerfs at the moment because there are so many premade Sin/OP combos running around. But I know in a 1v1 sistuation they aren't OP.

So when you get a few hard hitting ranged together they can decimate melee, but the same can be said when you have a few coordinated hard hitting melee together.

 

If you think the plasma probe is OP from just one player, I challenge you to play one against 3 Maras that focus you. You've got about a 10-15sec survivability against them. The only saving grace is you may be able to slow them to reposition, "if" they've blown their stun and root breakers. If they haven't blown them, the plasma probe won't save you.

 

Sniper engineering vs 1 Mara (who can play) should be a Mara win.

Sniper engineering vs Merc (with LoS) should be a Merc win

Sniper engineering vs Operative will favour the Operative (if they are any good)

Sniper engineering vs Sorc favours the sniper

Sniper engineering vs Juggs favours snipers because Juggs have the least mobility now since they had that nerfed (or I would say it would be even)

Sniper engineering vs Sins favours the sniper

Sniper vs PT favours the sniper.

Sniper engineering vs Sniper marksman favours the marksman spec

 

Engineering is a cc spec and really shines the most when engaging in a multiplayer rumble. In a 1v1 dual, engineering is at a disadvantage because nearly all of its abilities are designed to inflict damage to multiple opponents, so their abilities in a 1v1 aren't as strong as others.

 

As you said, melee are having some issues with them. Ok, well snipers can also have issues with some melee if the melee have all their breakers ready. Mercs can blow us up if they know how to kite. Sorcs are just annoying and Marksman have an advantage too.

 

I'm sorry if two or more snipers cause people problems, but not all snipers are engineering, most are marksman. just because there are multiple players of the same class, doesn't make them OP. If you want to blame anything, blame the queue system and the diminishing pvp population.

 

I don't believe aweful players do well on engineering, they do rather badly. Some of their numbers might look high on the scoreboard, but it's not that much different to Sorc fluff when they spam FS and have no pressure applied to them.

Most people seem to let bad snipers free cast all match, why is that?

 

With the current quality of players these days I'm surprised every class isn't considered OP and we don't have 20 threads about every class. I've certainly seen lots of people QQ about every class in games being OP and or they are losing because of gearing or too many healers or too many scrubs.

 

As for lightning Sorcs, they aren't easy to play really well. Yes they are easy run around and not do too much except spam instants and FS, but most can't play them well and do no "real" damage (except fluff damage) and most die a lot. Try cracking 2 mil damage without using FS, while healing yourself for over 1 mil and not dying. Try getting any solo kills against any good players and I can tell you it's difficult to nearly impossible unless the other guy messes up. They are sorely lacking in burst, but I still see people asking for them to be nerfed when playing against really good Sorcs.

 

What some people don't realise is my 4 main classes are Lightning Sorc, Fury Mara, Rage Jugg and Merc (which I don't currently play due to its OP status). I've obviously got snipers, Sins, Operative and PTs (which I dislike). So I'm not just coming to this discussion one sided, especially when I play my Sorc and Mara the most.

While engineering snipers can be a pain in the butt, they don't seem OP to me when I play against them unless 2-3 snipers (in general) sit together. That's not the class fault, its the player stacking. If I'm on my Mara I actually go sniper hunting, it's my favourite pass time 😊 and I would say I'm pretty good at it, even against engineering snipers.

 

I just feel everyone is jumping the gun here because more people have decided to try it because they are a good counter to Mercs (which there are way too many). With the increased participation of the spec, they will seem OP for awhile. In 6-8 weeks the class will be forgotten again and another will be OP because everyone will see how well they can do.

 

As a community we've become so focused on that stupid dps score board that when we see high numbers the class must be OP and class roles are ignored. Every class has a specialty or role to play. engineering snipers is CC.

Edited by Icykill_
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Heal when hit has no business being on DPS classes period! Not only is it a guaranteed heal for a least some because some one inevitably attacks. Happens all the time I even do it they pop it right when i fire off ball lighting first one usually don't trigger heal but 2nd one does. can't be helped I can't not fire the 2nd one its automatic when it procs! Secondly, Heal when dmg forces other classes too22 basically NOT ATTACK whilst their target is free to lambaste you with there's. Yeah being a sin I can cloak IF its up and IF i'm not dotted (rolls eyes good luck with that happening) DPS specs should never get heals on dmg or if you have to EVERY DPS spec gets it! Third I can't control what others do so yeah I may very well not attack but someone else always does! The fact is Merc and sniper are OP yes you can beat them when the stars all ine up for you and maybe a sacrifice to the pvp gods but for the most part the deck is stacked against you from the start evidence by the pure volume of how many are playing these crutch classes. You don't have to be good you just have to pop shields and let your team mates carry you. Whats worse is that throw 5 or six mercs in the mix and the match is a complete and utter sham! Merc and sniper break the trinity and to some degree so does jug, but it has been reined in bit, but until bioware pulls their collective heads from their #$^(@ and either balance's the classes or revamp's the queuing system to limit X number from joining a match nothing will change and you will just have people playing crutch classes because it's an automatic win 90% of the time.

 

I do sort of feel bad for Sins vs engineering or snipers in general because we can damn well see you coming 😉, but you guys have a major advantage against every other class these days because you can stand right next to someone and they can't see you, like when you had blackout, which is now a permanent ability and there is no CD grace for other classes to counter your sneaky stealth tactics. All the finesse has gone from the class and it's been dumbed down. So you can't have it both ways.

I do agree that stacking does destabilise the matches. That has been the way for 5 years and it will never change. It doesn't even matter what classes or specs you stack, it ruins the balance and favours that class which makes it seem OP. Bioware can wear a lot of the blame there. But players need to take responsibility for stacking too, especially 4 man premades of the same class. We all know people do it. You can't tell me as a Sin you haven't run in some premade Sin packs to blow people up 😉

Also when ever a class becomes FOTM and blows everyone up at first, people are going to look for a counter to that class. Which mean more people will roll the counter class to FOTM. The more FOTM players, the more people roll the counter class and we get destabilised matches. That can make the counter class seem OP because their are more than usual.

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Sniper engineering vs 1 Mara (who can play) should be a Mara win.

Sniper engineering vs Merc (with LoS) should be a Merc win

Sniper engineering vs Operative will favour the Operative (if they are any good)

Sniper engineering vs Sorc favours the sniper

Sniper engineering vs Juggs favours snipers because Juggs have the least mobility now since they had that nerfed (or I would say it would be even)

Sniper engineering vs Sins favours the sniper

Sniper vs PT favours the sniper.

Sniper engineering vs Sniper marksman favours the marksman spec.

 

If you know how to play your range, you shouldn't lose to a marauder 1vs1, assuming everyone has their cooldowns. Not even close.

 

Same for operatives. They depend so much on stuns, and you can go immune to it for over 40 seconds in a row with all your cooldowns.

 

As for vs Marksman, it depends, but you have one massive advantage over them, and its that you have 20% extra defense on about all their attack, while you deal in tech damage, which they have 0 defense over. For the rest you should have roughly the same defensives, altough MM has a slightly better entrench, and a slightly better diversion.

 

Sniper are in a very good place right now, even without their Plasma probe snaring everything at 70% in 8 meter.

 

Keep the radius, keep the 70% snare even, but slap a cooldown on it. Its ridiculous otherwise.

 

And no, sniper's role isnt cc but aoe pressure.

 

Honestly, its a bit glaring that its a massively overpowered snare right now. Its simply is going to bring engi in line a bit with the ammount of spammable snare it can slap on people till they are out of movement impairing break.

 

And merc, 1vs1, tbh at equal skill I'm putting money on sniper. If you know how to handle their dcd correctly, you have the one class in the game that can just keep the dps going through energy shield and reflect without a significant loss, and keep your flashbang for kolto overload.

Edited by verfallen
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