Engi snipers > Nerf pls.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Does my signature look like I play melee?

 

...in second thoughts don't answer that. I have all the classes, I'll give you one guess to determine which one I prefer.

 

There's no difference here from what it's like to be a sniper v stealth enemies. In fact...perhaps I should go pest a load of idiotic babble in that "I miss #nerfoperatives" thread.

 

Not everyone I freely admit that, but a lot of people in this thread should be dipping their head in shame with what they've posted. Ill made posts without a credible ounce of thought put into it.

 

I find healers annoying

I find stealthers annoying

I find melee that are being healed annoying...when I'm not getting any support from my team

I find tanks that do nothing but guard healers all game annoying

 

There's lots of things everyone finds annoying, you know what? It doesn't mean to say things need to be nerfed, it means sometimes you just have to put up with things because that's the way some things have to be.

 

Engineering is one of those...it's ALWAYS been annoying, right from launch, or at least since patch 1.2 (which is when I first started playing the spec). Anyone just waking up to the fact that engineering can be incredibly annoying has been living with their head in the clouds. It's like...seriously...where have you all been?!

 

The by far overwhelming amount of "suggestions" in this thread have been quite simply...awful. People need to urgently gain a better understanding of the game insofar as how everything is linked, and how changes effect everything else because this thread is just embarrassing for a lot of people.

 

For the record, yes I agree that changes need to happen, the difference is the changes I've suggested come from someone that actually understands the spec and has played it as their main since patch 1.2 I know what it's like to play the spec, I know what it's like to be against the spec, I've seen it all, heard it all.

 

Do my changes, and engineering will be fine. Any complaints after those changes are nothing to do with engineering.

 

 

You have offered many valuable ideas about how to bring snipers back in line and they go a long way in "meeting half way". You're no white knight of snipers, you acknowledge their overall strength as being too much. That alone is impressive in this on going debate and I give you a lot of credit for it, very respectable.

 

While on paper your suggestions seem viable and without question worthy of real consideration, it would be hard to say definitively if it would be enough to off set the sheer dominating control engineering snipers are able to have over so many players at the same time with virtual impunity and without restriction. But your suggestions for "nerfing" [i think that would be the correct word, correct me if I'm wrong] them in other ways [defensives, heals, etc], could very well change the overall state of things due to a change in their own survival and the greater attention they would need to pay to it once they were no longer immortal [ There can be only one... =p].

 

I am however curious, and I'm not being sarcastic, in how much experience you have when facing Engineering Snipers on a melee class, and how you found that experience to be.

 

I ask for two reasons. 1 - Knowing the spec as well as you do, you may have some "inside knowledge" that no one else has seemed to discover and that perhaps mitigates the severity of their controlling effects [especially on melee].

 

Now we have seen a few others state that the only melee that should be having any difficulty with dealing with engineering's monstrous control ability are Jugg and PT. Now, I challenge anyone to show some evidence of Assassins, Operatives, and marauders [excluding Fury] facing off with Engineering snipers and not having severe control being excersized over them. People can say anything they want, but I find it questionable that no one has come forth with any video showing these other melee classes are not having issues getting around engineering snipers.Not one video. Not one detailed strategy that doesn't involve half the team attention on said sniper, no suggestions of what abilities to use and in what order to get around them and not be continually controlled all over again a second after they use their breaker.

 

The second thing i wanted to ask you. You agree their defensives and healing is too strong, kudos to you for manning up on that =], I am curious as to why you think that Engineering snipers are constantly being guarded now. Given their defensives and heals, and being next to impossible to pin down, it can't be for any of those reasons. So why now are we seeing almost all of the time, every Engineering Sniper being guarded, even when there are far squisher classes than they who aren't getting the guard.

 

While it's not a stacking issue we're talking about, it's starting to be. Every Sniper you see is engineering now and now you are starting to see 2 and 3 engineering snipers in every match now.

 

So simple question, if there are in fact, 2 or 3 engineering snipers in a group and the other group doesnt have them, in your opinion, is there really any possible hope that melee aren't going to be owned from start to finish? Do they stand a fair chance against that? Now you have overlapping plasma probes blanketing the entire area, of course it'd effect makes them take 10% more damage to AOE attacks. So now we have multiple aoes being stacked on each other [mercs join in the fun of course], and those caught in this are going no where. The melee can't attack of course because their arms aren't 35' long so they can't even give most of em a broken nose for their trouble.

 

Fair or unfair. OP or not. Do you really see any possible way those playing melee under those conditions are going to have one second of enjoyment from the WZ?

 

Fact is, class stacking in PVP happens. In this case Breakers don't work. You get trapped in slow fields that cover almost the entire area of play [when there is more than one and in this case yes, class stacking, which is what is happening more and more]. They follow you whereever you go because of course they have the greatest amount of range. And it can be applied literally forever. You can forget about doors, nodes, routes of egress not constantly being covered in plasma probes

 

I'm willing to try your idea first, totally, But, in the event that those other nerfs don't happen to Engineering snipers. In the current state of things, do you still think that's fair than? It should stay as it is, even with the insane defenses and heals and all? [i'm not being sarcastic, I'm interested in your thoughts.

Edited May 11, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Liquor]

Again today there were maybe 4 Engi snipers in the queues for most of the day on Shadowlands.

 

I solo queues for most of the day as well. I caught a lot of focus fire and in some matches died a lot. But there were times I didn't die at all. It depends on who I'm up against and who is on my team. 1 or 2 classes don't secure a win or loss. Granted some are better fits for certain WZs while others could be shelved.

 

I loved concealment for the node defence and off-season steals

Loved medic for the HoTs and cleanse

Loved immortal for the true skank tank abilities

Loved MM for the single tgt burst

 

But an over abundance of these can get annoying

 

Merc and sorcs are all over the queues, next is jugg and mara.

 

Engi sniper isn't bad. It's just more pronounced now that everyone is tired of stun wars. Toss on slow movement and players go nuts.

 

Though Shieldtech needs Merc reflect more than Merc needs it. Enraged Defence needs it's breaker returned and plasma probe can go on the same cool down as tracer missile

Oh, and bring back the original Hidden Strike knockdown animation

Edited May 11, 2017 by Liquor

[Icykill_]

It's a major problem because war zones, aside from arenas, are not death matches. It's objectives and you can just drop the fire over it and singlehandedly control everything, as you demonstrated in your post, with a single, spammable ability. Just one sniper can be brutal, and if there's 2, forget it.

 

Even a team that focuses your sniper you won't kill you quickly if you're a sniper with any skill, and all the while, you can just drop the fire back over yourself, so those trying to kill you will be slowed to hell and then you'll roll away into cover and be unable to be jumped to, so people will crawl towards you at 30%. All the while they will be ripped apart by you and the rest of your team, which is most likely 80% ranged since ranged in general is OP these days. Typically, seeing on average, 2 melee on an 8 person team these days, occasionally 3.

 

Class balance is hard, but it's a no-brainer that eng sniper has abilities that need to be addressed right now. BW could make some easy, stop-gap adjustments that would hold people until the major class balances.

 

One thing I think lots of people don't understand about plasma is you can only have one active at a time. So you can't just drop them all over the place and have the whole area covered. Sure you can keep dropping them in front of someone. But as Liquor already pointed out, they are finite before your energy runs out. It's not a never ending spam ability.

Also while you are busy spamming this everywhere you are doing crap all damage. All you're really doing is being a pain in the arse. If people were smart they would either attack or use some interrupts (if not in entrench) to make the sniper stop. As per usual it's tactics and situation.

How about when a sniper is holding up a whole bunch of you, ie, going through a void star tunnel, try attacking them. You don't need all your team to run through the tunnel at once. Just one or two of you turning to focus the sniper will stop them spamming you whole group in the tunnel.

But that's the real issue in regs these day. No one works as part of a team, no one looks to see what help their team mates might need and no one sacrificies themselves for the sake of the team. All that matters is the almighty dps scoreboard and how many kills you can get.

Thinking and team work is hard for most people. But there are still some of us who are team players and think about tactics and strategy. I often sacrifice myself for the team, wether it's dying or just sacrificing some of my scoreboard dps. When you get a good group of people who use team work and good tactics, you can overcome a lot of the problems that pop up in reg pvp, including things like plasma probe.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Icykill_

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Again today there were maybe 4 Engi snipers in the queues for most of the day on Shadowlands.

 

I solo queues for most of the day as well. I caught a lot of focus fire and in some matches died a lot. But there were times I didn't die at all. It depends on who I'm up against and who is on my team. 1 or 2 classes don't secure a win or loss. Granted some are better fits for certain WZs while others could be shelved.

 

I loved concealment for the node defence and off-season steals

Loved medic for the HoTs and cleanse

Loved immortal for the true skank tank abilities

Loved MM for the single tgt burst

 

But an over abundance of these can get annoying

 

Merc and sorcs are all over the queues, next is jugg and mara.

 

Engi sniper isn't bad. It's just more pronounced now that everyone is tired of stun wars. Toss on slow movement and players go nuts.

 

Though Shieldtech needs Merc reflect more than Merc needs it. Enraged Defence needs it's breaker returned and plasma probe can go on the same cool down as tracer missile

Oh, and bring back the original Hidden Strike knockdown animation

 

 

RBLs [pubs] tearing it up all evening, double premade, you know how they do. 3 Sabo GSs [Engin Snip], 3 Commandos, one Healer Sage and a Shadow tank.

 

Try scoring a goal in huttball when every path to the goal area is covered in plasma probes and of course the slingers themselves blasting you to ribbons the whole slow way going. We didnt score once. We had one Engin snipe but they were new to it so they didnt know what the were doing really [reroller], we had 4 melee.

 

Totally pointless. Won before it even started.

Edited May 11, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Liquor]

RBLs [pubs] tearing it up all evening, double premade, you know how they do. 3 Sabo GSs [Engin Snip], 3 Commandos, one Healer Sage and a Shadow tank.

 

Try scoring a goal in huttball when every path to the goal area is covered in plasma probes and of course the slingers themselves blasting you to ribbons the whole slow way going. We didnt score once. We had one Engin snipe but they were new to it so they didnt know what the were doing really [reroller], we had 4 melee.

 

Totally pointless. Won before it even started.

 

Wife agro keeps me offline during the evenings. Something about me being online all day while she is at work.

IKR the nerve or her!

Ain't nobody got time for that when deployed so I splurge when home

 

The old super-Q FTW tactic. That's where we see a lot of these nerfs come from. The inept get rekt and blast on the forums without actually taking the time to learn their own abilities and other class abilities let alone tactics and coordination.

 

Had that in a voidstar earlier today. Mixed guild pre-meeting on comms. I as usual Solo-Q Regstar join but jump on comms with them. Rough first round but we know what we need to do. We started burning targets down. Marked targets and called them out for focus fire. Lost by 4 because the other Engi sniper died 13 times. He face tanked and popped like a beautiful bubble floating in the air. It was a learning experience for those not used to grouping up with comms and actually working together.

 

I was on my Engi sniper and had a rotation ready for each focus burn to help our melee out. Keep those targets in range and controlled. The spec works very well. Sure it's annoying but I am using these probes to troll others. Eventually I'll go back to tanking and get serious again

Edited May 11, 2017 by Liquor

[Icykill_]

I still believe a large percentage of these nerf calls are from Mercs.

 

First - plasma can really mess up a Merc (as I found out)

Second - there are so many Mercs at the moment and they out number every class

Third - skilled Maras, Sins, Sorc and Operatives are rarely affected by Plasma if they pick the right utilities, know their CDs - DCDs and when to use them

Four - Juggs and possibly PTs have the most problems, but you hardly ever see them and that started just after 5.0 and before everyone was complaining about Plasma. So it's not the main reason why you hardly see them.

 

When you consider just how many Mercs there are vs any other class, it makes sense that they are over represented in this thread. IMO they are affected by plasma way more than those other classes I mentioned in number three.

 

If my hypothesis is correct, then all the Mercs calling for nerfs are massive hypocrites because they already have one of the strongest classes.

Snipers are the Mercs counter class, if they nerf plasma "just because Mercs ask for it", then Mercs have even more power over the battlefield.

Lastly, if you've been a maining a Merc since 5.0 and are using melee as an excuse to nerf plasma because you quickly jumped on your melee Alt for a few matches and had issues. Maybe the reason you had issues is because you've not played the class enough since 5.0 and not developed any tactics to deal with snipers.

 

I know a lot of you will disagree, that's your purgative, but I get to have my opinion too.

[Icykill_]

Sorry for another post. This will be quick.

 

You do know that FOTM and class stacking is a self fulling prophecy. As soon as you start a thread about something like this, the more people try it.

 

"If you build it, they will come"

[Schoock]

I still believe a large percentage of these nerf calls are from Mercs.

 

Of all classes probably Mercs have the easiest time going against Engineering.

 

You do know that FOTM and class stacking is a self fulling prophecy. As soon as you start a thread about something like this, the more people try it.

 

It's been over 6 months since 5.0 and the current class "balance" came out. Whoever hasn't noticed the amount of FotM yet either hasn't PvP'ed in the last 6 months or is too dumb to worry about.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Schoock

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Third - skilled Maras, Sins, Sorc and Operatives are rarely affected by Plasma if they pick the right utilities, know their CDs - DCDs and when to use them

 

Guess I'm not a skilled Marauder than. Over 5 years. And here I thought I know how to use Marauder DCDs.

 

Fury Marauder has nothing to do with skill.They have passive CC immunities built in to their rotation/attacks.

 

Carnage and Annihilation do not.

 

Again, if it's so easy, please make a video showing as plebs what we are doing wrong.

 

There aren't enough breakers in the world to keep up with newly spammed Plasma Proves constantly being thrown right on top of you.

 

I'm sorry. I don't believe carnage and anni marauders of any skill level are not having any problems with plasma probe. Those defending it they say a whole lot of things but they never back it up and I don't know why if they could they never ever do.

 

And respectfully Icy, saying Mercs have a hard time with plasma probe while in the next breath saying melee dont. Defies all logic. What does slowing a merc do? Can they still attack? Yup. Can they use their God DCDs, yup. And forgive me if I'm wrong but don't they have some very real anti CC immunities.

 

Mercs suffer the least of them all. Slows effecting mercs? Maybe the mercs who literally just rerolled this morning. This right here is some serious white knighting heh.

 

I'll brush aside the insinuation that I'm a bad mara. You don't know me. I would however appreciate it, if you would back up some of your statements. There is no reason in the world you can't take some frap videos showing all these "skilled" marauders and assassins, being hardly effected by plasma probe.

 

Respectfully, I don't believe you. You are always saying how you want to help the PVP communtity and I don't doubt that for a second, you've proven that. So how about helping some of all the bad maras on the shadowlands who are getting raped by plasma probe.

 

You slow a melee, he can't attack a ranged opponent who are very much still attacking him. You slow a merc they still can attack fully. Apples and oranges.

 

A couple of other reasons why plasma probe is no where near the concern for Mercs as it is for melee.

 

Stabilized Armor Reduces damage taken from area effects by 30%. Additionally, while stunned, you take 30% less damage from all sources.

 

Energy Rebounder When you take damage, the active cooldown of Energy Shield is reduced by 3 seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds. In addition, when taking damage, you have a 20% chance to emit an Energy Redoubt, which absorbs a low amount of damage and lasts 6 seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds. - Keep that AOE damage coming, your taking virtually none of it and that plasma probe is just speeding the CD of energy shield every 1.5 seconds.

 

Threat Sensors Increases stealth detection level by 3, melee and ranged defense by 2%, and reduces the cooldown of Stealth Scan by 5 seconds. Additionally, whenever you activate Cure on yourself all periodic damage taken is reduced by 30% for 12 seconds. - Ok, now your not taking AOE damage virtually at all.,

 

Power Shield Energy Shield now further decreases ability activation pushback by 30%. Increases all healing received by 20% and makes you immune to interrupts. Plasma Probe is just helping you to make that come around all the faster heh

Jet Rebounder Increases the damage dealt by Jet Boost by 30% and heals you and up to 7 other allies for X – Y . In addition, taking damage reduces the active cooldown of Jet Boost by 1 second. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds. - Ohh great another CD plasma probe is actually helping them get faster, and with a bonus to heal! That will come in handy to heal all that AOE damage the merc is NOT taking

 

Hydraulic Overrides Hydraulic Overrides

Instant

Cooldown: 30 secs

Grants 8 (12) seconds of immunity from movement-impairing effects, knockdowns and physics and increases movement speed by 30%.

 

This is even better than perdation, it lasts longer and predation only effects movement imparing effects, not knockdowns or physics.

 

Yeah, i can see how plasma probe can be problem for mercs, if I was a merc I'd make sure I was always standing in Plasma probe.

 

Mercs don't have to worry about taking damage as much as Maras. After all they are the 4th healing spec in the game [sarcasm]. When you can't heal one blessed point of damage, AOES matter, especially if you are subjected to them on a potentially virtual constant basis to say nothing about the slows that actual hamper melee and do not nothing to slow down a mercs dps. Zero.

 

Aww....poor mercs. heh

 

Come on Icy!! I KNOW your smarter than that!!!

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Sorry for another post. This will be quick.

 

You do know that FOTM and class stacking is a self fulling prophecy. As soon as you start a thread about something like this, the more people try it.

 

"If you build it, they will come"

 

What are you apologizing for? This is what the forums are for, to post! heh

 

I'm afraid we're past that point now. It's not of merc proportions, but it's getting worse everyday. 95% of snipers in PVP are engineering now, when they never were before. So many switched to it. It's why you are seeing Engineering snipers are almost always being gaurded now. Talk about adding insult to injury! heh

 

Ya know, one Engineering sniper can be a problem, but that really depends on that map. I mean they can't be every where at once. So on some maps, Voidstar for example, one can't cover both doors, so they're just making the people on thier side miserable. You might get through that match uneffected if you just werent on the side he was. Two doors can't be covered by one sniper. .....but two sniper can cover both. Now if you have a team with engineering snipers and one without, it's hopeless of the people are competant. If one team has 1 but the other team has three. 95% the one with three is going to win voidstar.

 

Class stacking is bad in any class, but, in the case of engine snipers, simply put it's far worse. No other class can excersize so much control on so many people as an engineering sniper can. Not even Assys and OPs who hereunto were the undisputed masters of CC. Not any more.

 

If you go into ranked, every single team [unless they are rank amatures] is going to have three classes/spec as a near certainty. You already know what what they are. - Engineering Sniper, Arsenal Merc, and Corruption Sorc. Now Marauders can rip some serious ***, and skank tanks can fill two roles at once, but as good as they are, they're negotible. That sniper can put out as much DPS as any of them

If one team has the engineering sniper and the other one doesn't, its not much different that one team having a healer and the other one not. It's damning. You need the engineering sniper even if for no other reason that to counter the other engineering sniper.

 

It's getting to be in regs where 2 and 3 engineering snipers [and mirror] are in almost every match now [at least on the shadowlands]. Two engineering snipers seems to be the minimum now. It's not as bad as mercs in terms 0f numbers, not even close, but they don't need to have that many because they can effect so many people at the same time anyways.

 

I had three matches this evening that had 3 engineering snipers and one of them had 4. The second people realized how many engineering snipers were there, they dropped like flies, and the wz canceled out for lack of players. The DPS with guards are making a bad situation far worse because they are just gaurding engin snipers and leaving the tank to guard the healer. There defensives and the guard make it impossible.

 

At this point, I hope they leave the healers as they are, because if the lower their healing, Juggs, Maras, PTs, Assy skank tanks are doomed. I can't heal one point of damage, not one. And my DCDs have three minute cool downs heh.

 

Everybody already knows Icy. I wish they didn't. You know, because you are not doing level 70 PVP because of the gear disparity and have been sticking to middies and lowbies, perhaps your just not seeing the severity of how some of these problems are effecting a lot of players. It's understandable that you wouldn't, how could you if your not in it, so I don't blame you for standing on principle.

 

Even BaineOs realizes that there is a problem with them over all [not the plasma probe thingy, over all] with Sniper defensives and heals. I give him a lot of credit being so forthright with the class he loves.

 

Do some 70s Icy, see how it really is out there right now. I'm not saying it's all bad, I still have fun some of the time, but others, it's literally like rowing against the tide of a raging river.

 

See for yourself.

Edited May 11, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Also while you are busy spamming this everywhere you are doing crap all damage. All you're really doing is being a pain in the arse. If people were smart they would either attack or use some interrupts (if not in entrench) to make the sniper stop. As per usual it's tactics and situation.

.

 

I've been seeing that alot. I was confused at first because I know the kind of DPS they are capable of and I thought it was weird that I was seeing so many snipers really not doing good damage at all and I was like ***? Than I realized, they're not there for thier DPS persay, locking up the enemy team and making the objectives unchannelable is all they need to do to win if the enemy team can't match them with counter plasma probes.

 

DPS is important, but as you've pointed out numerous times [and you're right as much as I hate to admit it! heh], objectives win Wzs, not damage persay.

[DavidAtkinson]

I've been seeing that alot. I was confused at first because I know the kind of DPS they are capable of and I thought it was weird that I was seeing so many snipers really not doing good damage at all and I was like ***? Than I realized, they're not there for thier DPS persay, locking up the enemy team and making the objectives unchannelable is all they need to do to win if the enemy team can't match them with counter plasma probes.

 

DPS is important, but as you've pointed out numerous times [and you're right as much as I hate to admit it! heh], objectives win Wzs, not damage persay.

 

I play marauder and sin mainly and the 30% AOE damage reduction utility on my marauder helps a bit with sniper AOE's.. Not by much but it doesn't feel that bad. I play both class as DoT specs anni and hatred and for me these worked best with putting serious damage onto snipers.

 

At the end of the day.. the skill level of the sniper is a factor when it comes to killing them or not.. but I found that snipers are not such a big problem as a mercs are now.

 

I still think that these 2 classes need some fine tuning to make them less OP. But the mainproblem now is the cancer that mercs represent with their 10 million lives and endless self heals.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I play marauder and sin mainly and the 30% AOE damage reduction utility on my marauder helps a bit with sniper AOE's.. Not by much but it doesn't feel that bad. I play both class as DoT specs anni and hatred and for me these worked best with putting serious damage onto snipers.

 

At the end of the day.. the skill level of the sniper is a factor when it comes to killing them or not.. but I found that snipers are not such a big problem as a mercs are now.

 

I still think that these 2 classes need some fine tuning to make them less OP. But the mainproblem now is the cancer that mercs represent with their 10 million lives and endless self heals.

 

I agree, the aoe damage really isn't the major issue. It might be slighter more meaningful for me because I play Carnage so I don't get the self-heals [small as they may be heh] like Anni does, but it's really more about the slow. That 30% aoe DR utility is a must have for sure for pvp!

 

Thankfully there are plenty of bad snipers running around, alot of them are rerollers who are just trying to cash in on the FOTM. So yeah, the skill issue is everything. It's the ones that are competant with it that can just match anything you can do and have a counter to it. I see alot of the snipers in voidstar, good up on top of that lamda shuttle and make a sniper's nest up tjere because they know you can't leap to them and climbing up to the top of it is a ***** and they just launch you half a foot ball field away the second you get up there which makes them all that much harder to deal with. They can just pot shot you the whole way coming.

 

Another problem is people are so afraid to fight them that alot of people just leave them to free cast as long as the sniper isn't targetting them. This is a huge problem. Leaving a sniper to free cast is like being the 9th member on the enemy team. If there are snipers, I'm going to do my best to not give them one second's peace if I can get to them, even if it's limited it still helps them group because often times the sniper will just say fuk it and try to find a different area to camp and leave you where you are. Doesn't always work of course. But thats how you weed out the ones who know what they are doing and the ones that dont. Nothing pleases me more than killing snipers. Sadly, I can only kill the ones who aren't very good snipers, but even a bad engineering sniper can cause a shyt ton of problem just spamming plasma probe. So killing them is still an asset to your team.

 

I hate mercs too, but I don't hate them as much as I hate snipers. A merc can't keep you from attacking him a decent amount of the time of you know what you are doing, a good sniper [engineering just being the most problematic one] who gives you as melee his attention,, he can keep you away from him 90% of the time.

 

Any sniper that lets you get more than 3 or 4 seconds wacking away at him and knows you are there isn't a skilled sniper.

Edited May 11, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[DavidAtkinson]

I agree, the aoe damage really isn't the major issue. It might be slighter more meaningful for me because I play Carnage so I don't get the self-heals [small as they may be heh] like Anni does, but it's really more about the slow. That 30% aoe DR utility is a must have for sure for pvp!

 

 

Another problem is people are so afraid to fight them that alot of people just leave them to free cast as long as the sniper isn't targetting them. This is a huge problem. Leaving a sniper to free cast is like being the 9th member on the enemy team. If there are snipers, I'm going to do my best to not give them one second's peace if I can get to them, even if it's limited it still helps them group because often times the sniper will just say fuk it and try to find a different area to camp and leave you where you are. Doesn't always work of course. But thats how you weed out the ones who know what they are doing and the ones that dont. Nothing pleases me more than killing snipers. Sadly, I can only kill the ones who aren't very good snipers, but even a bad engineering sniper can cause a shyt ton of problem just spamming plasma probe. So killing them is still an asset to your team.

 

 

 

Any sniper that lets you get more than 3 or 4 seconds wacking away at him and knows you are there isn't a skilled sniper.

 

Leaving them to free cast is a problem, yes. Especially in ranked arenas How many times did it happen that your team picked the wrong focus and you got burned to death by sniper AOE while trying to kill the enemy jugg ?

[Icykill_]

One of the main reasons you play a sniper is to pump out dps to help your team. If people aren't doing that as one of the heavy hitters on the team then they are a waste of space. They are needed way more on the dps than spamming plasma.

There are really only 2 maps or situations that spamming plasma is better than pumping out dps. Hutt Ball and void star corridors.

Hutt Ball is probably the biggest problem because it's not about dps at all, it's about getting the ball to the line. On my sniper I actually run with the ball carrier to help them get to the line. But I am the only sniper I ever see doing that. I have literally never seen another sniper do that since 5.0 and I can't remember how long it was before that. Most snipers camp a spot and farm dps in HB and then think they were good because of all the dps they did. 🙄. Even though that is probably the most ledgitmate use of spamming it in the game to help your team, nobody does it, so it's not that much of an issue.

Void star can be an issue, but only if the other team is stupid. Like I pointed out earlier, the whole team doesn't need to go through the tunnel at once and just a few turning on the sniper will make them stop and the team can get through.

It's pretty pointless spamming it on the other maps, especially if there is any LOS about. You can drop it to help your team, but spamming it in front of one or two players to slow them is just dumb when you could be killing them instead.

As for Mercs having an issue. It's not that the snipers kill them easy, we know they don't, it's the fact that Mercs get stuck more than most classes and then become sitting ducks for other classes to focus them. Mercs can also still pump out their dps, but lots of Mercs think they have to face tank everything and don't know how to LOS or if they do they find they can't loss if a sniper keeps slowing them. I don't think Mercs who really know how to play are having "huge" and game breaking issues, but I do think that the majority or the FOTM Mercs are the ones QQing for Nerfs and they way out number the people who normally main Mercs. I know when I jumped on my Merc the plasma pissed me off because it slowed my LOSing down and I like to be mobile. But that was my only issue.

I'll finish by saying that plasma doesn't do a lot of damage, so having any AOE damage reductions when attacking them will help take them down. It's why Maras are such good sniper hunters. Im not saying it's a face roll, you do have to work for it, but IMO they are highly suited for for sniper hunting. If all you want to do is face roll people with little effort then go play a Merc and keep requeuing till you find the right bunch of noobs to global all match.

[stoopicus]

Um, plasma probe is the single most effective method of stopping caps (any cap, any map) in the game. In Voidstar, the corridors are annoying but spamming the bombs is devastating. A couple good snipers can shut that map down.

 

You know that it AE interrupts caps, right? And has no CD?

 

That skill really needs either the interrupt removed or a CD added. In general, AoE interrupting capping is a necessary mechanism, but this particular one is out of hand.

Edited May 13, 2017 by stoopicus

[Icykill_]

Um, plasma probe is the single most effective method of stopping caps (any cap, any map) in the game. In Voidstar, the corridors are annoying but spamming the bombs is devastating. A couple good snipers can shut that map down.

 

You know that it AE interrupts caps, right? And has no CD?

 

That skill really needs either the interrupt removed or a CD added. In general, AoE interrupting capping is a necessary mechanism, but this particular one is out of hand.

 

Last I looked, most other AOEs were also spamamble on doors 😉

[stoopicus]

The difference is:

 

Plasma probe has no CD

Plasma Probe is instant and can't be interrupted

Snipers are more or less immune to CC

Snipers can bunker up and spam a door more easily than other classes, which may actually need to move

(Good) snipers are much harder to kill than mercs or sorcs

 

These add up to making it the de facto go-to area denial for caps in 70 regs.

 

(Not calling for an overall nerf here BTW, just pointing out that Plasma Probe has had a knock-on effect in the current meta with multiple snipers much worse than the multiple nets from mercs. It is *much* harder attacking/capping versus defending now. Many VS matches are entirely played in the first room now, ending with its funky tiebreaker. A 10s CD would actually probably fix the skill - and it's not like the sniper can't find other ways to harm you than spamming PP.)

Edited May 13, 2017 by stoopicus

[VixenRawR]

So it took five years for people to complain about Plasma probe on the door? Uh...gee I forgot about all the force storming I was seeing for so long. Most aoe is spammable. Sure plasma probe can stay out after cast...but like I said....why now?

 

THE PROBLEM EVERYONE IS HAVING...is class stacking. That is all...

[stoopicus]

So it took five years for people to complain about Plasma probe on the door? Uh...gee I forgot about all the force storming I was seeing for so long. Most aoe is spammable. Sure plasma probe can stay out after cast...but like I said....why now?

 

Force Storm is channeled and interruptable, and sorcs are much easier to kill if they try to spam it.

Plasma probe used to have a CD (20s?), now it doesn't.

 

THE PROBLEM EVERYONE IS HAVING...is class stacking. That is all...

 

Well, yes, that's what I said too - the multiple Engi snipers per WZ because FotM are causing a problem with plasma probe area denial in much the same way the scads of netting mercs are with electronet, but with snipers, it's worse.

 

I don't think snipers need nerfing at all in general. I play Virulence on my sniper and Sharpshooter on my slinger, and both seem fine to me. Even most of engi is fine. Literally the only thing that needs adjusting to fix the meta is plasma probe, and probably all it needs is a slight CD (10s is plenty). At least the way I see it. And that would also probably end the sniper stacking problem.

Edited May 13, 2017 by stoopicus

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

So it took five years for people to complain about Plasma probe on the door? Uh...gee I forgot about all the force storming I was seeing for so long. Most aoe is spammable. Sure plasma probe can stay out after cast...but like I said....why now?

 

THE PROBLEM EVERYONE IS HAVING...is class stacking. That is all...

 

If its only about the class stacking, why is every Sniper you see Engineering now and why is every Engineering Sniper you see guarded? Because they have weak defenses?

 

It's a win button that people don't want to lose so instead of guarding Mr PT, they guard the one Engineering sniper instead who with a guard on because almost immortal.

 

In VoidStar you see snipers going up to the top of the Lamda Class Shuttle because they know no one can leap to them and they're not gonna get anyone get anywhere near them long before they see them coming. The second you do get up there, guess what they do? Chuck you half a foot ball fiend away, of course than you're rooted and than they proceed to blast your head wide open without losing one second of spamming that cheeseball plasma probe on the door.

 

What other class can keep an AOE going forever?

 

There was a reason they nerfed Force Storm, and it wasn't so that they can have an opening to give another class an OP AOE ability. It was wrong than and it's wrong now.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Plasma probe used to have a CD (20s?), now it doesn't.

 

It also used to be only 5' they raised it to 8' in 5.0, so it covers a bigger area.

[stoopicus]

What other class can keep an AOE going forever?

 

Um, I can on my Jugg. Chilling Scream is nicely spammable. But it doesn't interrupt cap AFAIK.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Um, I can on my Jugg. Chilling Scream is nicely spammable. But it doesn't interrupt cap AFAIK.

 

I was basically referring to it in regard to your comment that it interupts cap so they can use that AOE to prevent it forever.

[stoopicus]

I was basically referring to it in regard to your comment that it interupts cap so they can use that AOE to prevent it forever.

 

Yeah. Icy and Vixen *almost* have a point that other classes can spam AEs but Engi has it way too easy with spamming plasma probe, and with the three or four of them per WZ now, ouch. You have the sniper survivability combined with an instant, zero CD spammable AE slow that both interrupts cap and makes it hard to get to the sniper (which it is already hard enough to do), and even if you do get to them they roll and rope-a-dope you along, constantly 70% slowing and interrupting the bomb area. They are just super strong on defense right now and a stack of them leads to first-room voidstar ties.

 

It does break Voidstar much more than most other maps though. It's effective in ACW and Novarre too, but not game breaking.

 

And Vixen is totally right regarding the stacking - which was my original point too (sorry if I wasn't clear there.) Multiple snipers with the current Plasma Probe is the problem, and I think it is easily fixable without nerfing anything but a slight CD on PP.

Edited May 13, 2017 by stoopicus