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Engi snipers > Nerf pls.


Alex_York

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So, To counter Mercs, you roll snipers, to counter Snipers, you roll multiple Sins., to counter multiple Sins, your roll Sork heals, to counter Sork heals you roll Mercs.

What am I missing?

 

Pretty much this ^^

 

Also try playing a sniper when you have no healer and the other team has 2 Sorc heals, 2 Mercs and a bunch of Sins/Maras.

It doesn't matter how good your defence is on a sniper if you don't have a healer to back you up and they do.

On any other class you have options if you have no healer. Sorcs, Merc, op all self heal. Sins can leave combat and go heal, Juggs can heal to full if you know what your doing, Maras can leave combat and go heal, Mercs can heal to full... PTs have it the worst, but snipers aren't far behind.

 

Every class has its weaknesses, strengths and counter classes. I think people don't realise that. I know it sucks if you get smashed by a class that can dominate your particular chosen class, but there is nearly always a counter to that class. Unfortunately you may not be on it.

 

What really throws things out is when you get an easy to play FOTM that needs a powerful counter class. So many people started playing Mercs and the counter is Snipers, especially engineering. I'd bet if Mercs weren't so FOTM, we'd hardly see any engineering snipers. We'd see more Juggs and Maras to pound on the Mercs as usual.

 

I don't know how many of you are lvling up alts, there are a lot of Sins and Operatives coming through the lvls. A few sins can destroy a snipers because of their anti stun proc/utility, speed utilities and multiple breaks.

Next thing you guys will all be complaining about how you can't see stealths even when they stand right next to you. Even with a full stack of 30 x stealth detection, I can't see most Sins.

 

Class counter and counter classes are driving this pattern since Mercs became FOTM. Soon we'll be back to 6 Sorc healers per match.

Edited by Icykill_
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The step to multiples make and back to singles mean that certain classes are massively op?

 

Not really, it comes down to team mixes and roles. If you have 4 sins in Ranked, they can decimate whole teams, esoecially snipers. So does that make the Sins OP above the snipers? No.. it just means they are the better counter to snipers...

I can tell you from my experience at the moment, a few Sins can destroy me if I'm by myself or I don't have a healer.

I think you'll find people have caught onto snipers now and are using Sin/Maras working in teams to take them down.

If you're a solo sniper in arena with no healer you can be nearly guaranteed to be focused first, at least in regs and if your not, then you should be. People who focus Mercs first and let a sniper free cast deserve to get sniper smear all over them.

It comes down to, "are you going to let a sniper free cast and control the battle all match" or are you going to kill them or pressure them?. A sniper under pressure doesn't do much damage because they are trying really hard to stay alive.

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I really would like to know the classes people are playing who are calling for nerfs. Sins and Maras shouldn't be calling for them, other snipers obviously shouldnt be calling for them. I can understand Juggs asking, maybe Sorcs (if they don't know how to counter them), PTs maybe (I'm not sure of the affect on them).. but if any Mercs are asking then I'm going to laugh my head off.
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warzones this afternoon...unplayable... Multiple eng snipers turning the objective area into a giant ring of fire while the snipers and other ranged toons just unleash on toons who can't do anything but move at a snail's pace. This is beyond broken right now, BW. You should be ashamed of yourselves for not fixing it before now, and with no talk of what class balance is coming with 5.2 to be found, as far as I can tell, I have serious concerns you're not addressing it at all.

 

What class are you playing? And how many Mercs / mandos were there too?

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Sniper self heals are much greater than a maras so keep moving and shooting a mara will always die 1v1 against a sniper as long as the sniper doesn't panic maras need a jump in rotation to build focus, so they sacrifice a speed boost to compensate or burn themselves out. Snipers can see sins coming from a long way off, burst their cover and aoe/dot them they can't restealth and lose a lot of damge out put by not opening from stealth. OPs treat like sins. Juggs and PT's hahahahhaa. Mercs engineering is dot and aoe spec, well done you just took away the one trick mercs have dcd, snipers can hunkerdown and do not need to move for a bit, that's the big offensive trick sorted, you get cover protection against ranged in a world of low acc. And why do snipers beat all classes? because even if you screw this up you get your dcds twice.

 

Sniper self heals are utility choices only and there are only 2 of them. So if you decide to use utility to get a self heal buff you can miss out on another.

One is heal 2% every 3 secs while in cover. That means you must stay in cover and not be moving to escape.

The other is heal 3% of max health every second while in side shield. The shield CD is 3 mins. So it's really only anlast resort. Even less than Sorc bubble with healing utility. Sorcs also have self heal abilities and nearly every utility has a healing property to it.

Fury Mara has great mobility and one of the best abilities to stay on a sniper, obliterate, predation, force camo, mad dash. Yes they have lower self heal potential than a sniper and they are utility choices, but I would only use one of them on Fury Mara. The best utilities for sniper hunting are these - Phantom, relentless, unbound, maiming reach, through victory and Blood ward (which has 3% healing of max health ever second you get hit for 12secs, as well as making you immune to stun, sleep, lift and slow). Every single one of those means a Fury Mara can stay on a sniper very easily and has good survivability, they great absorbtion and negate lots of damage. If the sniper tries to escape you can stay on them and kill them or disengage. Regardless if you kill the sniper or disengage, you've put that much pressure on them that they can't affect the rest of your team.

Sins have similar abilities and utility choices that also negate sniper defence.

 

If you are having issues on these classes (especially a Fury Mara) against snipers, you need to reevaluate your tactics.

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I really would like to know the classes people are playing who are calling for nerfs. Sins and Maras shouldn't be calling for them, other snipers obviously shouldnt be calling for them. I can understand Juggs asking, maybe Sorcs (if they don't know how to counter them), PTs maybe (I'm not sure of the affect on them).. but if any Mercs are asking then I'm going to laugh my head off.

 

I'm mostly playing my Deception Sin these days and my Sniper when i'm bored of that (Virulence).CR 161 and looking to get about 3-4 pieces of 242 soon. I've had to abandon my Sorc and Merc and all the other classes because of the gearing issues although that isn't going to matter when i dont renew my sub again. It's a shame really as I truly enjoy playing all characters, I even applied to be Cool once, but my application was denied.

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I'm mostly playing my Deception Sin these days and my Sniper when i'm bored of that (Virulence).CR 161 and looking to get about 3-4 pieces of 242 soon. I've had to abandon my Sorc and Merc and all the other classes because of the gearing issues although that isn't going to matter when i dont renew my sub again. It's a shame really as I truly enjoy playing all characters, I even applied to be Cool once, but my application was denied.

 

How do you find deception against snipers. I've only played mine a little.

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How do you find deception against snipers. I've only played mine a little.

 

A good sniper can control the situation pretty easily. knockback/ leg shot etc, especially if i dont have any LOS but then i'm not doing any dmg to him at that point either. Just have to pick and choose the fights carefully.

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Sins have similar abilities and utility choices that also negate sniper defence.

 

If you are having issues on these classes (especially a Fury Mara) against snipers, you need to reevaluate your tactics.

Not gonna get in to discussions about mara and such since i dont play it much, but i know a thing or two about sin. I can say that no matter who you are or if you started playing at 5.0 or launch, you have 0% chance to win on sin vs equally skilled engi sniper. Zero. Nada. (well, lets say 1% chance just bcos wintrade is a thing. Kappa)

 

Sure, you might "have no problem" in regs vs a dude who fotm re rolled engi and doesnt know difference between plasma probe and auto attack. (bcos lets face it, there are people like that)

But equally skilled one you wont win.

 

And about the "nerf engi sniper" topic, i think reducing the slow to like 30% would be a good start. Or if the slow is a must stay, make AoE's same size they were before 5.0? Just go with a small changes and not like they went with over buffing merc defs

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Not gonna get in to discussions about mara and such since i dont play it much, but i know a thing or two about sin. I can say that no matter who you are or if you started playing at 5.0 or launch, you have 0% chance to win on sin vs equally skilled engi sniper. Zero. Nada. (well, lets say 1% chance just bcos wintrade is a thing. Kappa)

 

Sure, you might "have no problem" in regs vs a dude who fotm re rolled engi and doesnt know difference between plasma probe and auto attack. (bcos lets face it, there are people like that)

But equally skilled one you wont win.

 

And about the "nerf engi sniper" topic, i think reducing the slow to like 30% would be a good start. Or if the slow is a must stay, make AoE's same size they were before 5.0? Just go with a small changes and not like they went with over buffing merc defs

 

I obviously disagree with the nerf. But if they do it, 30% is way too low. I don't think anything lower than 50-60% is acceptable.

 

The thing with Sins is they rarely run alone or focus alone.

 

Edit : lots of classes/specs now have "super" speed that at launch that sort of speed would have been considered a speed hack. So being able to slow them down seems to only slow them to normal speed when stuck in plasma slow. It's certainly not 70%. Plus most of those classes have immunities and extra breakers.

I just watched a group of imps hardly slow when I popped plasma. I'm pretty sure the PT was at super speed for 80% of the match. (They had a Mara to help with that, but still). They had a few sins as well and Sorcs. They hardly got stuck 😳.

Nerf those super speed abilities and utilities and I'll accept 30%.

I really do think most of these nerf calls are from specific class specs because they don't have all those ways to negate plasma.

Edited by Icykill_
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A good sniper can control the situation pretty easily. knockback/ leg shot etc, especially if i dont have any LOS but then i'm not doing any dmg to him at that point either. Just have to pick and choose the fights carefully.

 

It's the picking and choosing that gives you a tactical advantage.

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Sniper self heals are utility choices only and there are only 2 of them. So if you decide to use utility to get a self heal buff you can miss out on another.

One is heal 2% every 3 secs while in cover. That means you must stay in cover and not be moving to escape.

The other is heal 3% of max health every second while in side shield. The shield CD is 3 mins. So it's really only anlast resort. Even less than Sorc bubble with healing utility. Sorcs also have self heal abilities and nearly every utility has a healing property to it.

Fury Mara has great mobility and one of the best abilities to stay on a sniper, obliterate, predation, force camo, mad dash. Yes they have lower self heal potential than a sniper and they are utility choices, but I would only use one of them on Fury Mara. The best utilities for sniper hunting are these - Phantom, relentless, unbound, maiming reach, through victory and Blood ward (which has 3% healing of max health ever second you get hit for 12secs, as well as making you immune to stun, sleep, lift and slow). Every single one of those means a Fury Mara can stay on a sniper very easily and has good survivability, they great absorbtion and negate lots of damage. If the sniper tries to escape you can stay on them and kill them or disengage. Regardless if you kill the sniper or disengage, you've put that much pressure on them that they can't affect the rest of your team.

Sins have similar abilities and utility choices that also negate sniper defence.

 

If you are having issues on these classes (especially a Fury Mara) against snipers, you need to reevaluate your tactics.

 

Yes but as you said you have only played 40 hours since 5.0 and mostly in lowbies the rest has been testing gear for bolster. You get a skill called box of tricks or imperial preperation. This gives all defences a reset. So you have hunkerdown, heal shield, shield probes, evasion, Hightail all on reset. Hunkerdown means you are immune to stun and interrupt so you can keep firing at the mara and as they are melee they cannot return fire and los. Heal shield may have a 3 minute cooldown but you don't have to wait use imperial preparation. Against maras you can sit tight let them burn themselves out as they can't jump to you to rebuild their resources and heal that bit more which will tip the fight, if you have a few defensive cool down problems hightail and evasion take care of it. Maras must also choose which buff they use as they have to build 30 rage to use, snipers get illegal mods, and the alacrity buff on cd so both together for maximum damage.

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Yes but as you said you have only played 40 hours since 5.0 and mostly in lowbies the rest has been testing gear for bolster. You get a skill called box of tricks or imperial preperation. This gives all defences a reset. So you have hunkerdown, heal shield, shield probes, evasion, Hightail all on reset. Hunkerdown means you are immune to stun and interrupt so you can keep firing at the mara and as they are melee they cannot return fire and los. Heal shield may have a 3 minute cooldown but you don't have to wait use imperial preparation. Against maras you can sit tight let them burn themselves out as they can't jump to you to rebuild their resources and heal that bit more which will tip the fight, if you have a few defensive cool down problems hightail and evasion take care of it. Maras must also choose which buff they use as they have to build 30 rage to use, snipers get illegal mods, and the alacrity buff on cd so both together for maximum damage.

 

You get that before you get to 70, but it doesn't reset ballistic shield (heal shield) It only resets evasion, counter measures, shield probe, cover pulse, entrench and covered escape. It's also has a 3 min CD.

 

Edit : played 11 hours today so far. So make that 51 hours. Playing my Mara/Sorc/Jugg in 70s and if I could just get one more pop I'd have my sniper there too.. I know the other 2 Mara specs aren't able to stay on a sniper like Fury can. If you want to hunt snipers on a Mara, then Fury is your best bet.

 

Edit : waited an hour and no pvp so can get my sniper over the line to 70. I could go do some pve, but that's makes me feel dirty. Guess I'll have to wait till tomorrow 😢

Edited by Icykill_
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You get that before you get to 70, but it doesn't reset ballistic shield (heal shield) It only resets evasion, counter measures, shield probe, cover pulse, entrench and covered escape. It's also has a 3 min CD.

 

Edit : played 11 hours today so far. So make that 51 hours. Playing my Mara/Sorc/Jugg in 70s and if I could just get one more pop I'd have my sniper there too.. I know the other 2 Mara specs aren't able to stay on a sniper like Fury can. If you want to hunt snipers on a Mara, then Fury is your best bet.

 

Fury gets so little healing, 1v1 as on the terms you suggested, that a good sniper will have no problems. As I said you simply let them burn themselves out. They have to use a boost to resources rather than their speed boost. "But that gives them 10% more damage" you may argue but with the slow probe and as many knockbacks as you can shake a stick at they are now near rooted to far away to use it. "But they get leap to cover" yes it has 10m range and you get hightail. "But they get a defense buff on their big attack" yes and they need to spend resources to get it. "But maras defences are quite good" a sniper has more and self heals and imperial preparation so even if the stars align for the mara and jump to cover is not on cooldown nor is valourous call snipers bet everything twice, just rinse and repeat.

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Fury gets so little healing, 1v1 as on the terms you suggested, that a good sniper will have no problems. As I said you simply let them burn themselves out. They have to use a boost to resources rather than their speed boost. "But that gives them 10% more damage" you may argue but with the slow probe and as many knockbacks as you can shake a stick at they are now near rooted to far away to use it. "But they get leap to cover" yes it has 10m range and you get hightail. "But they get a defense buff on their big attack" yes and they need to spend resources to get it. "But maras defences are quite good" a sniper has more and self heals and imperial preparation so even if the stars align for the mara and jump to cover is not on cooldown nor is valourous call snipers bet everything twice, just rinse and repeat.

 

Must be me then because I love sniper hunting and it is what I do on my Mara. So I've gotten pretty good at the tactics. I do come across some snipers that I end up having to disengage from because my CDs are gone even before I attack.

Most of the time though I can get them if I'm patient and don't constantly be a lemming by charging into 30k crits.

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yup just buff sorc dps a little and its all balanced again.

 

Nope it isn't. It's not about buffing sorc...

I dare to say that Engi Snipers are more overtuned than mercs.

Their Plasma Probe must be changed. Slow must be reduce to max 30-40% or make it channeled. Engi is only spec that can prevent cap node or planting bomb doing nothing. They just put plasma probe on spot and for 9 seconds can do anything else. Not mention that they are immune to interrupts while they are in cover.

They abuse this so much.

Last night was in Voidstar against 3 Engi Snipers.. It was really nightmare we aren't plant bomb because of Plasma Probe because they spam it like they haven't any other skills... Not mention that this damn thing isn't disappear when we kill all 3 Snipers. This damn Plasma Probe still was on spot.

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Nope it isn't. It's not about buffing sorc...

I dare to say that Engi Snipers are more overtuned than mercs.

Their Plasma Probe must be changed. Slow must be reduce to max 30-40% or make it channeled. Engi is only spec that can prevent cap node or planting bomb doing nothing. They just put plasma probe on spot and for 9 seconds can do anything else. Not mention that they are immune to interrupts while they are in cover.

They abuse this so much.

Last night was in Voidstar against 3 Engi Snipers.. It was really nightmare we aren't plant bomb because of Plasma Probe because they spam it like they haven't any other skills... Not mention that this damn thing isn't disappear when we kill all 3 Snipers. This damn Plasma Probe still was on spot.

 

They are also free to cancel nodes in Odessen and there is literally nothing you can do about it, since they can't be CC'd or interrupted. Snipers are, in my opinion, just as ridiculous as mercs right now.

Edited by Vember
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Sorc healers at the same time? Then maybe see how the balance is. Should be pretty good with maybe a buff to pt and Jugg dps, make them real glass cannons bioware.

 

Juggers are masters of dual life, surviving, coming back and stuff. That's what they do. That's who they are. If juggsters are to be buffed DPS wise, then I don't wanna have to kill them twice anymore. Then they'll have to accomodate with no second life, no guard etc. That's how it works. Either tank, or DPS. Not both.

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