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Engi snipers > Nerf pls.


Alex_York

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Wouldnt hurt the class to much. Remember that marksman and virulence are perfectly viable, and they dont have such an awesome slow. Its a world first anayway to have 3 speccs viable for teamranked, never in the history of swtor has that been true to another class. Even if they overnerf engi (which will likely happen, we all know they cant balance reasonably) sniper would still have two viable speccs.

 

Honestly, all they need to do for eng is reduce the slow from 70% to 25%. The sniper overall survivability reduce slightly.

 

Everything will be fine. But knowing BW.. they will probably reduce the damage, add DCD and remove the slow (among other nerfs) rendering the spec obsolete in PvP.

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Wouldnt hurt the class to much. Remember that marksman and virulence are perfectly viable, and they dont have such an awesome slow. Its a world first anayway to have 3 speccs viable for teamranked, never in the history of swtor has that been true to another class. Even if they overnerf engi (which will likely happen, we all know they cant balance reasonably) sniper would still have two viable speccs.

 

You know they won't just nerf engineering spec if past examples are to go on. They'll nerf some sniper class ability that ever spec uses just to make engineering less powerful. Then realise that engineering is still annoying too many people and nerf plasma. But the damage will be done by then because the class nerf will probably just end up making none of the specs viable.

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Honestly, all they need to do for eng is reduce the slow from 70% to 25%. The sniper overall survivability reduce slightly.

 

Everything will be fine. But knowing BW.. they will probably reduce the damage, add DCD and remove the slow (among other nerfs) rendering the spec obsolete in PvP.

 

Why not 70% down to 60% or 50%... where did you come up with 25% being ok?

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Why not 70% down to 60% or 50%... where did you come up with 25% being ok?

 

Lets all just agree that single target slows should be more effective than multi target /aoe slows, and that any ability with a slow that is also spammable should be drastically less effective.

 

If they don't end up giving plasma probe a cooldown, then a 25% slow on 8 m radius aoe seems fine. If they do give it a cooldown (9s) then 50% seems fine.

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You know they won't just nerf engineering spec if past examples are to go on. They'll nerf some sniper class ability that ever spec uses just to make engineering less powerful. Then realise that engineering is still annoying too many people and nerf plasma. But the damage will be done by then because the class nerf will probably just end up making none of the specs viable.

 

definately sounds like a classic bioware. :o

 

 

 

Lets all just agree that single target slows should be more effective than multi target /aoe slows, and that any ability with a slow that is also spammable should be drastically less effective.

 

If they don't end up giving plasma probe a cooldown, then a 25% slow on 8 m radius aoe seems fine. If they do give it a cooldown (9s) then 50% seems fine.

 

Id go for 30% to be in line with other dps aoe slows, such as virulence (obviously the most comparable), dotmerc, operative or sorc (when skilled).

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Wouldnt hurt the class to much. Remember that marksman and virulence are perfectly viable, and they dont have such an awesome slow. Its a world first anayway to have 3 speccs viable for teamranked, never in the history of swtor has that been true to another class. Even if they overnerf engi (which will likely happen, we all know they cant balance reasonably) sniper would still have two viable speccs.

 

 

Wish I could find it but sharpshooter was showing really below average dps, maybe second worse on Bant's numbers. Viable...maybe but barely.

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Why not 70% down to 60% or 50%... where did you come up with 25% being ok?

 

For some classes to have a slow AoE is bad but not breaking because you can leap to them. A gunslinger can't be lept to so adding a slow is really making things harder. I honestly think removing the slow would still leave a viable even strong class.

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Wish I could find it but sharpshooter was showing really below average dps, maybe second worse on Bant's numbers. Viable...maybe but barely.

 

You cant translate bants numbers to pvp, you arent going to do 9k dps in a warzone, are you?

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You cant translate bants numbers to pvp, you arent going to do 9k dps in a warzone, are you?

 

No but that does mean the base is very different. Bants numbers mean the op will be doing more damage then the guardian assuming equal skill because the op has a higher base. When a build is the second worst on Bants list that means it will be working much harder to get the same results as those builds in the top dps on his list.

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Normally spammable slows are between 25-30%. Dot spec slow is 30% if I am not mistaken. If there is a CD (which I prefer not to) it can be higher.

 

Don't think there is a slow under 30% right now, but could be mistaken. Think the spam are normally 30-40%, single target cooldown at 50%. Sniper is the only class that snares at 70-80% right now, the exception being Force Crush of Rage/Fury Warrior specs, but its a short snare, and not nearly as frequent as the SoS/PB snares, and the PP aoe snare.

 

Tbh, I'm of the opinion having a CD on it and 70% snare is the way I'd prever it, but matter of preference. No CD and 30% has its advantage too.

 

Regardless, one of the two solution fixes the issue.

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I haven't played my Sin for a long time, so I'm a bit rusty on what's changed since 5.0.

What I can tell you is Sins don't seem to have an issue going up against Engineering Spec. So much so that plasma probe doesn't even slow them down. And when they have that anti stun active, your only recourse it to try and escape, which falls right into their hands because they are expecting it.

I know I'm just getting to know engineering again, so some is probably learning to deal with them better. I also don't see much difference slowing down operatives or Maras. I know when I go sniper hunting on my Mara I rarely have problems.

The classes that do seem to have a slight issue with Plasma probe are Juggs, PTs, Mercs (sort of) and Sorc you play any of those I can sympathise with you. But those other classes seem to have little difficulty with it, so I think calling for a nerf because more people are playing it, isn't the right way to look at it. Taken by themselves, a good Sin or Mara can tunnel you hard and win. The same as they can against a Merc.

I feel that at this stage no nerf is needed. Maybe once I knock some more rust off my sniper I'll find better ways to deal with Sins.

I'm wondering how many of you calling for nerfs are doing so because you play those 4 classes that have the biggest issue with the spec. I'm also wondering how many Merc players are here calling for the nerf because they can't face tank the snipers.

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Normally spammable slows are between 25-30%. Dot spec slow is 30% if I am not mistaken. If there is a CD (which I prefer not to) it can be higher.

 

And all those classes are much more mobile to escape faster than most classes or they have proper self heals. PTs can take off fast, Sorcs can too and also have phase walk. Operatives and Sins can just vanish and all but one class can see them (snipers). Even Maras can just camo and run predation and mostly they can get away.

I thinks it's a fair trade off that the least mobile spec in the game has a longer slow ability that is spamamble to give them a chance to escape if needed.

I do not know the answer yet to wether nerfs are needed. I'm on the fence after playing against them on my Sorc. But if they are, I think it should only be a small adjustment and 25-30% is too low. I could probably live with 60%, but I'd prefer to keep the 70%.

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I haven't played my Sin for a long time, so I'm a bit rusty on what's changed since 5.0.

What I can tell you is Sins don't seem to have an issue going up against Engineering Spec. So much so that plasma probe doesn't even slow them down. And when they have that anti stun active, your only recourse it to try and escape, which falls right into their hands because they are expecting it.

I know I'm just getting to know engineering again, so some is probably learning to deal with them better. I also don't see much difference slowing down operatives or Maras. I know when I go sniper hunting on my Mara I rarely have problems.

The classes that do seem to have a slight issue with Plasma probe are Juggs, PTs, Mercs (sort of) and Sorc you play any of those I can sympathise with you. But those other classes seem to have little difficulty with it, so I think calling for a nerf because more people are playing it, isn't the right way to look at it. Taken by themselves, a good Sin or Mara can tunnel you hard and win. The same as they can against a Merc.

I feel that at this stage no nerf is needed. Maybe once I knock some more rust off my sniper I'll find better ways to deal with Sins.

I'm wondering how many of you calling for nerfs are doing so because you play those 4 classes that have the biggest issue with the spec. I'm also wondering how many Merc players are here calling for the nerf because they can't face tank the snipers.

 

Sniper self heals are much greater than a maras so keep moving and shooting a mara will always die 1v1 against a sniper as long as the sniper doesn't panic maras need a jump in rotation to build focus, so they sacrifice a speed boost to compensate or burn themselves out. Snipers can see sins coming from a long way off, burst their cover and aoe/dot them they can't restealth and lose a lot of damge out put by not opening from stealth. OPs treat like sins. Juggs and PT's hahahahhaa. Mercs engineering is dot and aoe spec, well done you just took away the one trick mercs have dcd, snipers can hunkerdown and do not need to move for a bit, that's the big offensive trick sorted, you get cover protection against ranged in a world of low acc. And why do snipers beat all classes? because even if you screw this up you get your dcds twice.

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I haven't played my Sin for a long time, so I'm a bit rusty on what's changed since 5.0.

What I can tell you is Sins don't seem to have an issue going up against Engineering Spec. So much so that plasma probe doesn't even slow them down. And when they have that anti stun active, your only recourse it to try and escape, which falls right into their hands because they are expecting it.

All things equal, Assassin, regardless of the spec, has zero chance to win an Engineering Sniper.

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What I can tell you is Sins don't seem to have an issue going up against Engineering Spec. So much so that plasma probe doesn't even slow them down. And when they have that anti stun active, your only recourse it to try and escape, which falls right into their hands because they are expecting it.

Is this "sins can beat engi sniper easily/sins have no problem vs snipers" some meme, or why are there people saying so? Equal skilled engi sniper v dps sin, the sin has no chance of winning

Edited by Kirpputori
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And all those classes are much more mobile to escape faster than most classes or they have proper self heals. PTs can take off fast, Sorcs can too and also have phase walk. Operatives and Sins can just vanish and all but one class can see them (snipers). Even Maras can just camo and run predation and mostly they can get away.

I thinks it's a fair trade off that the least mobile spec in the game has a longer slow ability that is spamamble to give them a chance to escape if needed.

I do not know the answer yet to wether nerfs are needed. I'm on the fence after playing against them on my Sorc. But if they are, I think it should only be a small adjustment and 25-30% is too low. I could probably live with 60%, but I'd prefer to keep the 70%.

 

Stop comparing the AoE slow to other classes' DCDs cause that's not what it is. If snipers need DCDs then for heaven's sake give them a shield, or an escape, or whatever. This AoE slow + DoT is obviously not a DCD, but an attacking utility. When several snipers plant this crap on the floor then one can go offline cause there's nothing left to do than to stand around or move like a turtle for the complete match, through the complete map.

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Still, in an 8 man I'm not seeing plasma slow many people down at the moment. Seems Sins are running in packs to negate the snipers and so are Maras. So as always people find a way to deal with them. It's the same with Mercs, it's why we have so many people rolling snipers to negate he Mercs.

Most class specs I'm seeing at them moment are spec'd for speed. PTs, Maras, Sins, Sorcs.. none of these classes seem to even be affected by plasma most of the time.

Edited by Icykill_
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warzones this afternoon...unplayable... Multiple eng snipers turning the objective area into a giant ring of fire while the snipers and other ranged toons just unleash on toons who can't do anything but move at a snail's pace. This is beyond broken right now, BW. You should be ashamed of yourselves for not fixing it before now, and with no talk of what class balance is coming with 5.2 to be found, as far as I can tell, I have serious concerns you're not addressing it at all.
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And all those classes are much more mobile to escape faster than most classes or they have proper self heals. PTs can take off fast, Sorcs can too and also have phase walk. Operatives and Sins can just vanish and all but one class can see them (snipers). Even Maras can just camo and run predation and mostly they can get away.

I thinks it's a fair trade off that the least mobile spec in the game has a longer slow ability that is spamamble to give them a chance to escape if needed.

I do not know the answer yet to wether nerfs are needed. I'm on the fence after playing against them on my Sorc. But if they are, I think it should only be a small adjustment and 25-30% is too low. I could probably live with 60%, but I'd prefer to keep the 70%.

 

I may buy into this if snipers are easy to kill. They absolutely are not. The can take more beating without moving than ops, sins, sorc, PT and arguably jugg. And the whole immobile, does not hold water, when you can roll instantly large distance and have massive movement speed increase in utilities.

 

Finally, there is only one other AOE slow that is stronger, which is Pyro PTs 90% for 2 secs on 15 sec CD. Not on demand. It needs to be reduced to 25-30% range.

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So, To counter Mercs, you roll snipers, to counter Snipers, you roll multiple Sins., to counter multiple Sins, your roll Sork heals, to counter Sork heals you roll Mercs.

What am I missing?

 

The step to multiples make and back to singles mean that certain classes are massively op?

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