Gearing Changes in 5.1.1 and 5.1.2

[Luxey]

All these news may seem interesting but for me they just sound like "Plz don't leave the game! Plz come back!". Unfortunately people are still leaving and I don't see a lot coming back and stay. You have perfectly succeed in creating SWTOR NGE. Antic players most surely remember how it ended ... But old ones are known for ranting aren't they?

You spent the last five years in rebuilding this game every six or height months. How can you hope to create any confidence in your game "politics"?

[ZambedosNB]

Quick question: Does the Dev team realize the irony that this new system is at least as complicated as the old one? Not really a criticism as the more complicated it gets the more rewarding it becomes at the same time so no complaints (personally I think it would have gone a long way to simply update the "elder game gearing guide" page on the website. But I digress). Complicated isn't necessarily bad. Actually that leads to what I wanted to talk about:

As you can see, the more boosts you add into the equation the more difficult it becomes to tell how much of a bonus you are actually getting. Since we are going to be running a 250% CXP event and adding a 100% boost. We thought this would be a good time to make that math cleaner for players to figure out and so that our % boost wouldn’t get difficult to manage.

Now, I am a math person, (Obviously, I clicked the spoiler before reading the rest of the post), but I don't think clean math is important when it comes to CXP gain. Clean math is nice for things like Conquest when you want to check beforehand how much effort it will take to hit that week's goal. CXP, especially with the high values we need to obtain for the best gear, is not so intricate. More = better. Especially when you consider the three main sources of CXP:

1) Mission rewards when the math updates for you,

2) CXP packs where the inital value is hidden (often behind misleading words; ex: "small" packs dropping from NiM Nefra that give 900 cxp. Please show us the actual value!) so you couldn't do the math anyway.

3) Mob exp where the values are too small for anyone to want to bother to deal with the math nor are they big enough that a change like this would likely have a difference in the final result.

 

Not to mention that very rare is the person who runs the numbers beforehand based on an additive model, who then complains to see that he got more than expected from an multiplicative system. The reserve would be the opposite. Now I realize that since you are coming up with these numbers at around the same time you might be just plugging in different values to account for this but if "clean math" is really the only reason for the change then please leave the math dirty.

 

P.S. I'm sad that the new legacy perk is getting nerfed right after its release. That's a nerf that will endure after this CXP bonus period ends. Also this perk is ironically more likely to be used as a boost to mains than alts. This design is puzzling, given it's stated purpose. The component changes are great and I thank you for them, but I honestly think this game will not be alt friendly again until the amount of cxp to get a crate is reduced. Increased gains is kind of the same thing, but a bonus period is a pacifier, not a fix. In this regard the 5.1.2 changes are much more significant.

[Wayshuba]

Can't wait to hear the reactions of the community when they find out what is really coming in the 5.2 patch.

[JattaGin]

Can't wait to hear the reactions of the community when they find out what is really coming in the 5.2 patch.

 

Since you apparently know what is "really coming", please enlighten us.

 

@Eric: I like the information style of your OP. Thank you.

[LordMabuse]

In the future

...

• Unassembled Components and Legacy. We understand your Legacy is important to you and we agree with that, we are looking at ways to address that in the future.

 

We need this legacy components fast please.

[DarthDymond]

A few years ago there was an uproar about not having an option to turn it off, so they gave us a way to do it. Then they took it away after a few times of XP boost.

Everytime they do a boost now, there are people still asking them for the option to turn it off. But its not as loud as before because lots of people have left and new people actually want to lvl fast.

I was one of the people agitating for making it optional after the first couple boost events - I stopped leveling an alt for the full duration of one because I didn't want to be insanely over-leveled.

 

I don't think the reason for the drop-off in complaints is so much that 'the complainers left and the players don't care' as it is because they added in Level Sync (which is almost certainly the reason they did away with the White Acute Module that toggled off the bonus XP).

 

Being over-leveled isn't nearly as much of an issue when you're automatically synced to the level of the planet you're on (not saying absolutely everyone is satisfied with it - particularly those who like lowbie PVP for example - just that enough are satisfied so complaints overall dropped off).

Edited February 4, 2017 by DarthDymond

[Wayshuba]

Since you apparently know what is "really coming", please enlighten us.

 

@Eric: I like the information style of your OP. Thank you.

 

Against forum rules to post data mining. Information is out on web.

 

Let's just leave it at everyone's gear grinding to date will be invalidated.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Wayshuba

[yeldarbnotned]

Gosh,

 

They are going to spend the next six months fixing a unpopular system. And, there is no telling how much time they spent on it last year.

 

It has already failed to accomplish its goal to keep people subbed.

 

What a waste.

 

The interface is nice though. Its neat to highlight the icons and watch the little action for the different activities.

[Groncho]

Gosh,

 

They are going to spend the next six months fixing a unpopular system. And, there is no telling how much time they spent on it last year.

 

It has already failed to accomplish its goal to keep people subbed.

 

What a waste.

 

The interface is nice though. Its neat to highlight the icons and watch the little action for the different activities.

 

Yup agree

Interface is nice and they are so attached to it that they can't figure how to make it work without this nonsense grind

[zerglord]

Thank You for making this changes.

Now only make content in crates better(more like DvL packs).

 

Keep good work.

[BelenUmeria]

Can't wait to hear the reactions of the community when they find out what is really coming in the 5.2 patch.

 

This is an easy guess.

 

Bioware will introduce new gear tiers in 5.2 to extend the grind. This is the only reason to increase CXP gains. This way, the player base is not too far behind when they have to grind more crates for the new tiers.

 

It is obvious. They are not giving us anything or even fixing the system. They want people leveling the GC so they can get close to the new tiers. Once the new tiers drops, everything will slow down again so that we can keep on the treadmill.

[Wayshuba]

This is an easy guess.

 

Bioware will introduce new gear tiers in 5.2 to extend the grind. This is the only reason to increase CXP gains. This way, the player base is not too far behind when they have to grind more crates for the new tiers.

 

It is obvious. They are not giving us anything or even fixing the system. They want people leveling the GC so they can get close to the new tiers. Once the new tiers drops, everything will slow down again so that we can keep on the treadmill.

 

Ding, ding, ding.... We have a winner!

 

and the hamsters will keep running on the wheel...

Edited February 4, 2017 by Wayshuba

[stoopicus]

Knights of the Eternal Grind!

[BelenUmeria]

Knights of the Eternal Grind!

 

Remember, opening crates is exciting!

[galliant]

I'm split between what is easier

 

1. You guys actually reverting gearing back to pre 5.0

2. Me creating a time machine to go forward in a future when you have actually reverted gearing back to 5.0

 

1 actually sounds easier but 2 certainly sounds faster.

[stoopicus]

In the grim future of Galactic Command Rank 40000, there can be only GRIND Edited February 4, 2017 by stoopicus

[PlasmaJohn]

In the grim future of Galactic Command Rank 40000, there can be only GRIND

Wargrinder 40k?

[stoopicus]

Wargrinder 40k?

 

SWTORGrinder 40k

[DarkSaberMaster]

Ding, ding, ding.... We have a winner!

 

and the hamsters will keep running on the wheel...

 

Hahahaha!!!!!! I just read the info that shall not be named. GG EAware. GG.

[stoopicus]

This is really making me miss 250 bolster. Not caring about gear and just having fun in the warzone was awesome. Edited February 4, 2017 by stoopicus

[realleaftea]

You have loot tables for the crates, right? Loot tables are simply arrays with drop rates in them for each item. CHANGE THE DROP RATES to favor things people obviously want (like bonus set items), and lower the drop rates on things people do not grind Cxp for

Don't underestimate the fact that they have to justify their doing to someone. Introducing a CXP event might be easily accepted. But fiddling around the content of a crate requires tthem to come up with a precise plan first. The same way, you want your mechanic to have a plan before he starts fixing your car. Most bosses I know would be like: "Fail me once, that's ok. We're just human beings. Fail me twice, and it's on purpose." Because if they have to touch the loot tables again later - causing higher costs, it might have been wiser to focus on more effective approaches right away. (Maybe the current change was approved just because they've added a cartel CXP boost as well)

 

Also keep in mind that a higher chance for an item might cause new problems as well. Most players I know already adapted their gameplay. They run HM operations and seek to upgrade their gear with PvP components. And that means, they have no real use for tier1 & tier2 command crates and might never reach command rank 300. To raise the CXP reward without touching the crates & PvP rewards at least addresses this issue. Improving the content of a crate wouldn't.

 

2915 PvP components to upgrade 236 to 242 (if you don't craft any pieces)

~3.5 components & ~700 CXP per match => 583k CXP earned (ignoring operation CXP rewards).

Assuming >250k CXP to reach tier2 (rank 90) and >350k to reach tier3 (rank 180) (I don't know the exact formula)

=> The player might not achieve command rank 200.

 

Like I wrote in the 'roadmap' thread though, I really wish BioWare would raise the chance a crate contains an item significantly, but that has to be in coordination with all other aspects.

 

So, the only good news are that they plan to increase the reward for dailies & weeklies. IMO, that's how it should have been right away. Weeklies & dailies ought to be the main sources for CXP (I would add 'completing planatery heroics' as well). You can still earn CXP once you've completed them (via golden / platin mobs, etc.), but at a lower rate. That would encourage players to level multiple alts.

 

Operations ought to be an exception though. Most groups fail to complete them on higher difficulty levels (thanks to Brontes, Revan, Styrak, Blaster, Firebrand & Stormcaller and Operator IX. ...)

 

At this point, it is painfully obvious what Bioware's plan is. They are extending Galactic Command and slowly increasing the speed for players to reach a level that they won't feel too far behind the curve and quit. It's pretty common to plan the life-cycle of a release and increase the speed of rewards in relation to the next release. The 250% event ends when they plan on introducing new tiers. Speed everyone up to tier 3 and then drop tiers 4 and 5 on them.

I agree to 100%. I always stated that introducing such a system would end up in nothing but more grind. And to announce new tiers now is 'risky' to say the least. However, the issue you've mentioned isn't limited to the command system (x12 experience event; insta-lvl60 tokens), etc.

 

I am personally a huge fan of GC concept, since I only started playing in SoR. This allows me to experience all of the content I missed. I love that I am able to do older OPs and Master FPs and still experience the full challenge. I love that I get rewarded no matter what I do.

Don't mistake 'Galactic Command' for the 4.0 level-sync. It's the latter that made every heroic, flashpoint and operation viable again. And you got rewarded with commendation system & direct gear drops in 4.0. BioWare just unified several aspects in 5.0 and that's the part that (reasonably) upsets so many players. Getting like 2 radiant crystals although an item requires 100+ of them still felt better than opening countless crates now, being unable to determine the type of token you might get.

 

They mean 2.5x. Source: http://www.swtor.com/info/in-game-events I know that's talking about regular XP, but it's clear that 250% = 2.5x.

 

Math is hard. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well, the patch notes state it's increased by 250%. And the site you've linked mentions a 250% bonus or boost several times. In other words: 100% + 250% = 350% (or 3.5). On contrast, the x2.5 phrase is used only once.

Edited February 4, 2017 by realleaftea

[Wayshuba]

I agree to 100%. I always stated that introducing such a system would end up in nothing but more grind. And to announce new tiers now is 'risky' to say the least. However, the issue you've mentioned isn't limited to the command system (x12 experience event; insta-lvl60 tokens), etc.

 

It's already going to be done come 5.2. This whole thing (Patch 5.1.1 and 5.1.2) is nothing more than smoke and mirrors to make you think they are doing something for the players when it is nothing more than to help keep you up to date when they drop the new tiers in April.

 

I am willing to bet that even the most stalwart will finally wake up to the fact their being played come the 5.2 patch.

[Eli_Porter]

I think we're really getting close to alts being just as viable to play as your main. Maybe if you got 1 unassembled component every command rank, with unassembled components being legacy?

 

Then even if getting T1/T2 levels is less useful because you don't get to roll for T3 gear/schematics, you still contribute to your main's progression by having a faster unassembled components gain rate.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[realleaftea]

It's already going to be done come 5.2. This whole thing (Patch 5.1.1 and 5.1.2) is nothing more than smoke and mirrors to make you think they are doing something for the players when it is nothing more than to help keep you up to date when they drop the new tiers in April.

 

I am willing to bet that even the most stalwart will finally wake up to the fact their being played come the 5.2 patch.

Sure, it will come, but we don't know how this will be done.

 

We currently have 90 tier1 ranks, 90 tier2 ranks, but 120 (or more) tier3 ranks (with an increased CXP requirement per level). If Bioware adds new tiers on top, it would mean at least 120 more ranks per tier and approx. 10k PvP components to upgrade your gear (2915*1.5 for tier4 || 2915*1.5² for tier5). Possible, but not likely to be accepted even with a permanently higher CXP rate.

 

Likewise, we currently have three difficulty settings for operations. Adding more tiers of gear would either result in no gear drops or a harsh drop limitation. Either way, BioWare would risk to ruin the tranquilizing effect the 5.1 changes might have achieved.

 

And that's why I wrote that announcing new tiers was a bad decision, no matter if the current changes only support their 'evil master plan' or were meant to be a quick response fix that is free of drawbacks (in contrast to altering loot tables).

Edited February 4, 2017 by realleaftea

[Danery]

In the current plan we are not increasing the Unassembled Component gains for GSF.

 

-eric

 

That is ridiculous. GSF has gotten nothing new in years and isnt even on any developers radar for new content, at least it doesnt appear that way. At least CXP, and then unassembled components, were getting more people into it. If you leave it at the bottom of the barrel, its going to go back to hardly anyone playing and long que times. What exactly is the reasoning for not increasing it?

 

Also for all of us who have reached Tier 3, why cant we get a boost that works in tier 3? Its all good and well to go play alts, and I probably will on at least some of them take advantage of it. But if what I need is Tier 3 gear, what is the reasoning for me not being able to get similiar boosts while working on getting gear in Tier 3?