Gearing Changes in 5.1.1 and 5.1.2

[benmas]

Still nothing about season8 rewards:( (and if you learnt from not putting a weapon box in last time)

[Neoforcer]

Hey folks,

 

 

As I mentioned earlier this week, we have quite a few changes planned for gearing over the next few Updates. Let’s go over what they are, when they are happening, and why!

 

Game Update 5.1.1 – Coming February 7th

• All Command Experience Points (CXP) gains, CXP Boosts, and CXP Legacy Perks are now additive instead of multiplicative.
  
  • This change is being made to setup for the greatly increased CXP gains that are possible in 5.1.1 (if you love math click the spoiler tag below for what this means in greater detail)

  [*]New CXP leveling event. This event will run until Game Update 5.2 in April. During this event all CXP earned will be increased by 250%.

  • The goal is that you will earn one crate every 30 minutes or less. The 30 minute time-frame is for a Tier 3 crate (meaning 1 and 2 will be even faster).

  [*]All CXP Packs that you earn from drops and Missions are now Bind on Legacy.

  • This change is to help a player distribute CXP around their Legacy if they choose to do so.

  [*]We are introducing a new 100% CXP boost in addition to the existing 15% and 25% boosts. This boost can be purchased from the Command Token vendor or the Cartel Market. This boost only works up to Command Rank 180 and lasts 2 hours (Command Tokens) or 3 hours (Cartel Market).

  • The goal of selling this boost for Command Tokens is that it allows higher Command Rank players to use their Tokens to greatly accelerate leveling their alts (you can also buy them on the CM or GTN).

 

Game Update 5.1.2 – Coming February 28th

• We will be rebalancing the CXP rewards you earn from Operations. Boss kills will now award more CXP than they did previously. The Operations Weekly has had its CXP reward greatly increased.
  
  • Operations CXP rewards are below where we would like them to be and so we are increasing their CXP value from both gameplay and Missions.

  [*]Group Finder Daily CXP Rewards are being added. Completing the Daily Group Finder Bonus will award you with a bonus CXP Pack.

  • We wanted to ensure there were great CXP incentives to participating in Group Finder. By making it a CXP Pack it has the added bonus of being Bind on Legacy so you can use it on whatever character you would like.

  [*]The completion Mission for Flashpoints have had their CXP values greatly increased.

  • Flashpoint CXP rewards are also below where we would like them be to and so we have added a much larger CXP bonus for completing their respective Missions.

  [*]The Flashpoint and Uprising Weekly Missions have had their CXP rewards increased.

  • Our goal is to really encourage players to play multiple types of content for the best rewards. We want to encourage playing a diverse set of content, not a singular activity (although you can always still do that if you prefer)

  [*]The PvP Daily and Weekly Missions now reward a batch of Unassembled Components.

  • This is one of the changes we are making to help players in getting Unassembled Components faster. It also incentivizes dabbling into PvP often.

  [*]We have increased the Unassembled Components that are awarded to players after completing Ranked and Unranked Warzones.

  • Not only did we want to reward playing Warzones through Missions, but we also wanted to ensure that those of you who play primarily Warzones each day could work towards purchasing gear quicker.

 

In the future

• Unassembled Components and Legacy. We understand your Legacy is important to you and we agree with that, we are looking at ways to address that in the future.

 

These are all of the changes you can expect in 5.1.1 and 5.1.2 for Galactic Command. As you can see there is a lot happening and we want to hear what you think. As we go through these updates we will continue to monitor feedback and data to see what other adjustments may need to be made!

 

-eric

 

 

 

Let’s take a look at what the change from multiplicative to additive means. Warning, if you don’t like math, you’re not going to enjoy this 

 

The way CXP and its respective boosts work right now is that the % increases multiply with each other, hence the term multiplicative. Assuming that normal CXP gains =100%, this is what multiplicative boosting looks like:

 

CXP + legacy boost + CXP boost

100% * 10% * 25% = 137.5% CXP earned

 

Here is a more extreme example to see where this gets complex:

CXP + legacy boost + CXP boost + highlighted activity + DvL Bonus

100% * 10% * 25% * 20% * 15% = 189.75% CXP earned

 

As you can see, the more boosts you add into the equation the more difficult it becomes to tell how much of a bonus you are actually getting. Since we are going to be running a 250% CXP event and adding a 100% boost. We thought this would be a good time to make that math cleaner for players to figure out and so that our % boost wouldn’t get difficult to manage. Now, the same math from above would look like this:

 

CXP + legacy boost + CXP boost

100% + 10% + 25% = 135% CXP earned

 

CXP + legacy boost + CXP boost + highlighted activity + DvL Bonus

100% + 10% + 25% + 20% + 15% = 170% CXP earned

 

One thing you will notice is that the % you earn with additive is lower than that of multiplicative. That is one of the reasons that we are making this change under the new event, so that you aren’t actually losing any CXP earned. We also will factor this into future changes to ensure that the additive change isn’t a nerf to the CXP you earn. Especially since our goal is to ensure you are earning it faster, not slower

.

 

 

Eric this all sound good but having 3 tiers of gear and making the 2 tier require the first tier is just bad design suggestion is take the requirement off the skin off the tier 2 gear and let is start buying tier 2 and remove tier 1 gear from the vendor. Having three set of gear is insane buying the first set for skins only this would make it less grindy

[Warforever]

Ya Eric your loot table on crates needs to be fixed to much junk in them remove the green and blue gear.... The only thing that should be in them is tokens, schematics, tier gear, skins and rep. NO more green blue or toys for crying out loud this needs to happen before the cxp event. As it stands now you could level from were you are now to 300 in the cxp event and still have nothing. The crate loot table are unacceptable as they are now with or with out an event.

 

Agreed.

[merovejec]

THERE'S A GAME?! Woah! Mind Blown! I thought this was one of those professional complaining forums.

 

Haha yeah, would be funny to have not game, just forums to complain

[merovejec]

So if I understand this correctly you are giving us a insane (compared to previous model) rate to gain CXP before 5.2??

 

Well, logically, that makes you think that with a new ops coming there might be new gear. New gear means you have to increase the GC max rank so you get that new gear via GC. So now you give us a way to go fast to rank 300 just cause you will be increasing the rank??

[Wayshuba]

To be honest. This is how Theme Park MMO's always do it. Gear up, new Ops come out (or expansion), everyone needs to regear in new gear sets. PvP'ers and PvE'ers both.

 

You are correct... except, most also release new content to require that new gear, not just reset all the old content so you do an endless gear treadmill.

 

Think about this for a second, just prior to 4.0 I believe 212 was top gear (sorry my memory may not be entirely correct on this). With 212 gear, you could do all the Operations in the game in any mode.

 

When 4.0 dropped, they reset the gear grind and you went and grinded the gear up to 224 to do all the SAME content in the game that you were doing pre-4.0. The level and gear increase wasn't needed for anything, there was no new content that required it.

 

Now 5.0 drops, the introduce a tedious and frustrating system for you to gear up to 242 to do what? Run all the same content you could do in 212 gear in 3.0. So you have gained nothing new in content.

 

Soon, 5.2 will drop and yet more gear will be introduced to get you to grind up to 248 for what? One new Op boss and all the same content you could do in 212 3.0 gear.

 

Compare that to an MMO that raises the cap by 10 levels and adds more powerful gear than you had before. With that, they introduce three new zones, 18 new dungeons, and 9 new raids - all designed around the level increase and new gear.

 

See the problem? For more than two years they have simply reset the gear grind and given no new content to go with the grind. SWTOR simply puts people on a gear treadmill for no reason at all whereas their competitors add a ton of NEW content that justifies the level increase and gear treadmill.

 

Peeps in SWTOR who have been here since 3.0 are asking themselves, "Why exactly I am doing this gear grinding yet again?" to which the answer for over two years has been, "To do what you were already doing before we added the new gear." Whereas elsewhere in other MMOs, they ask the same question to which the answer is "To do the three new zones, 18 new dungeons and 9 raids built for the level increase and new gear." This is where there is a striking contrast between SWTOR and what in normally in MMOs with gear grind.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Wayshuba

[Screaming_Ziva]

So if I understand this correctly you are giving us a insane (compared to previous model) rate to gain CXP before 5.2??

 

Well, logically, that makes you think that with a new ops coming there might be new gear. New gear means you have to increase the GC max rank so you get that new gear via GC. So now you give us a way to go fast to rank 300 just cause you will be increasing the rank??

This is one of the huge problems with GC. I don't think they'll be releasing new gear with the Ops but what happens when they do? Are they just going to reset everyone's Command Rank to zero and start everything over again?

[curulz]

So if I understand this correctly you are giving us a insane (compared to previous model) rate to gain CXP before 5.2??

 

Well, logically, that makes you think that with a new ops coming there might be new gear. New gear means you have to increase the GC max rank so you get that new gear via GC. So now you give us a way to go fast to rank 300 just cause you will be increasing the rank??

 

I fear you could be correct. Its not like people are just swimming in 242 BIS gear now to even warrant a new tier.

 

If their assumption is that as people get BIS gear they become bored and potentially leave, a new tier could make sense. But a couple of months after 5.0 launch seems awfully premature.

[Deewe]

Speaking of tiers, what would mitigate the issue was if the triers really matters.

 

I.e. whatever your luck at end of a tier you should be assured to get the tier set.

 

So when the numbers of CXP ranks from your next tiers equals the numbers of set piece you need, you're going to get one missing piece of set in each command crate.

 

The tier 3 could be left open but then you should never get a piece in double as long as you can't transfer it.

[DanNV]

I fear you could be correct. Its not like people are just swimming in 242 BIS gear now to even warrant a new tier.

 

If their assumption is that as people get BIS gear they become bored and potentially leave, a new tier could make sense. But a couple of months after 5.0 launch seems awfully premature.

 

I believe they had intended to release the entire op at the end of the year as part of the next expansion and just spend this year talking it up. That's why it's coming out in pieces. So, I expect a new tier of gear with 3 of the 5 new bosses (at least). Good luck getting it with GC. I'm not going to be getting it as my sub is up at midnight.

[Mikeieveli]

In this set of changes, not yet. We are still looking into Crate contents to see where changes should be made. It would be a much more substantial change from our side to update the contents and so although we are definitely open to doing so, we wanted to take these steps first.

 

-eric

 

Remove greens from loot table in tier 2 and remove blues from loot table in 3.

Simple qualifier, IF x THEN y. The condition here would be the Tier values. This can be done and should be done. You will satisfaction go up if you enacted this.

[DariusCalera]

Remove greens from loot table in tier 2 and remove blues from loot table in 3.

Simple qualifier, IF x THEN y. The condition here would be the Tier values. This can be done and should be done. You will satisfaction go up if you enacted this.

 

Actually, I don't mind the blues in tier 3 really. It's an easy way to get a few 240 enhancements that I can send to my alts.

 

But the greens, yeah, they need to get rid of those.

[maelstromdc]

Sadly, yet again, non-subscribers are ignored. This will swim up to bite you in the butt some day.

[Avicii]

Sadly, yet again, non-subscribers are ignored. This will swim up to bite you in the butt some day.

 

I am curious, what do you think non subs want? And what do they deserve?

[PlasmaJohn]

I am curious, what do you think non subs want? And what do they deserve?

It's not what they deserve it's what the paying subs deserve and that's populated queues. Population levels are worse off than they were this time last year. Now that non-subs are persona non grata it's going to get really painful unless you have a static group or large enough pool of friends or guildies.

[Andryah]

Sadly, yet again, non-subscribers are ignored. This will swim up to bite you in the butt some day.

 

They are not being ignored. It just that some content is prohibited from their access... and it has been this way in one form or another for years now.

 

{And if people who want full queues on demand think non-subs bring them quality, commitment, and depth of play experience as they play for free and without regard or commitment to the game..... I have waterfront property in the Gobi Desert you might also be interested in}.

 

Those players who are dependent on heavily loaded queues and fast pops for PvP and raids... you are playing the wrong MMO, and have been for a long time now. This MMO does not cater to either group, despite the fact that they throw just enough of PvP and Raid updates to keep you on a starvation diet. This MMO only shines long term for those that are diversified MMO content players. For that matter.. people that are only interested in story, even though it is core to this studios approach to gaming, also will not thrive here... again.. because of a lack of play diversification on their part.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Andryah

[Andryah]

It's not what they deserve it's what the paying subs deserve and that's populated queues. Population levels are worse off than they were this time last year. Now that non-subs are persona non grata it's going to get really painful unless you have a static group or large enough pool of friends or guildies.

Personally, I am fine with this.

 

Why?

 

Because while random queue pops are good for some, they are generally not good for a game as a whole when packed with players with little or no actual commitment to a game.

 

Why?

 

Because they promote the kind of anti-social selfish self involvement that is behind the reason why some MMO players are guildless, friendless, and only in it for themselves. In other words, it does not empower the best traits and characteristics of a game that being... multiplayer... is meant to have a strong social and interdependency component to play. The result is console game player and mobile gaming players disguised as MMO players, with no actual real preference for persistent MMO game play.

 

And I freely acknowledge that over time, most MMO studios are shooting this characteristic of MMOs in the head in their quest to seek more players from the total available gamer market ..... meaning they are seeking that nomadic console/mobile/game-hopping nature of the wider gamer player base. Not that any of us can actually effect change here with studios along these lines.. they are simply chasing where the crowds are.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Andryah

[PlasmaJohn]

group finder rant

Times have changed. When MMO's were small enough that you knew all the regulars then sure your preference would work. Once MMO's hit the mainstream (or close enough) that's no longer possible.

 

Group finder is now quite useful if not essential. It's not just a tool so that the anti-social segment can get their game on it also helps guilds and people find others that they'd like to game further with. Two of my old GM's would random queue 80% of the time just so they could meet new people.

 

Not everybody has rose colored glasses of the pre-GF era. Mostly all I've heard were complaints about how long it took to form up groups by shouting in the cities.

[Andryah]

Times have changed. When MMO's were small enough that you knew all the regulars then sure your preference would work. Once MMO's hit the mainstream (or close enough) that's no longer possible.

 

Group finder is now quite useful if not essential. It's not just a tool so that the anti-social segment can get their game on it also helps guilds and people find others that they'd like to game further with. Two of my old GM's would random queue 80% of the time just so they could meet new people.

 

Not everybody has rose colored glasses of the pre-GF era. Mostly all I've heard were complaints about how long it took to form up groups by shouting in the cities.

Never use it, don't need it. Same goes for yelling in Fleet to gather up who knows what in the form of players that have literally no concern for you whatsoever.

 

My guild fields full teams to do any content we choose, and we have a backup list from several other guilds to fill empty slots with, if needed. We also organize multi-guild team events as well. We have followed this practice across three different MMOs over the years... and it has worked very well for us and allows us to avoid the dark side of GF and PuGing.

 

And as a guild we have no problems recruiting, or even making new friends in game. In fact, we do have a friends list that the officers maintain from names given by members... that we can reach out to for group activities if we like.

 

Reliance on GF and queues is not only weak sauce in MMOs.... it's counter productive in terms of time, trust, and enjoyment of play. If others need it.. that's on them and they are free to do so, but it carries liability with it as well.

 

Random grouping, overall, has resulting in a lot of degeneration in the genre. It has it's place of course, but players have become over-reliant on it, and it brings other liabilities with it.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Andryah

[casirabit]

Times have changed. When MMO's were small enough that you knew all the regulars then sure your preference would work. Once MMO's hit the mainstream (or close enough) that's no longer possible.

 

Group finder is now quite useful if not essential. It's not just a tool so that the anti-social segment can get their game on it also helps guilds and people find others that they'd like to game further with. Two of my old GM's would random queue 80% of the time just so they could meet new people.

 

Not everybody has rose colored glasses of the pre-GF era. Mostly all I've heard were complaints about how long it took to form up groups by shouting in the cities.

 

Do you know how many times I have used group finder since launch? 4 or 5 times. I don't do group pickups but that doesn't mean i don't group up. I am selective on who I group with. I am not a fan of group pickups especially now as how the leveling is done. You get players that still have the green gear they got when they started the leveling process and if you tell them to upgrade their gear you think you committed some sort of crime.

[bgstranger]

snip

 

I'm really glad for you and your guild.

In fact, you can ask Bioware to create your own server to cut off entirely that annoying randomness.

Edited February 6, 2017 by bgstranger

[Andryah]

Do you know how many times I have used group finder since launch? 4 or 5 times. I don't do group pickups but that doesn't mean i don't group up. I am selective on who I group with. I am not a fan of group pickups especially now as how the leveling is done. You get players that still have the green gear they got when they started the leveling process and if you tell them to upgrade their gear you think you committed some sort of crime.

 

Exactly.

 

And it has, generally speaking, just gotten worse in MMOs over time. It is one facet of MMO evolution that I do believe is actually causative in the long slow demise of MMOs in the broader gaming market.

[Andryah]

I'm really glad for you and your guild.

In fact, you can ask Bioware to create your own server to cut off entirely that annoying randomness.

 

{Right... because we are somehow doing something unique and undoable by other guilds}.

 

What we are doing is following the same mechanics that have enabled guilds to thrive and succeed for many years now in MMOs.

 

I actually feel sorry for players that simply hop into some random guild, with no care or desire to help build the guild within a game. "You reap what you sow" is very applicable here. It's not the way there were intended to work, nor how they have worked for many years in MMOs across the genre.

 

But I do acknowledge that some guilds are useless, die quickly, and are simply trying to exploit the limited guild perks offered in this MMO. And that is exactly the kind of mind set that is attracted to said guilds.

 

You have fun now..

Edited February 6, 2017 by Andryah

[DanNV]

Do you know how many times I have used group finder since launch? 4 or 5 times. I don't do group pickups but that doesn't mean i don't group up. I am selective on who I group with. I am not a fan of group pickups especially now as how the leveling is done. You get players that still have the green gear they got when they started the leveling process and if you tell them to upgrade their gear you think you committed some sort of crime.

 

That's nice. My group has used group finder almost every week since 5.0 to fill in empty slots. Before that, those of us who were doing FPs would do GF to fill in slots. I've used it extensively since it was introduced and had very few really bad apples. (A few, but not enough to make the system something to avoid.) GF pops keep people playing and therefore spending money directly or indirectly on the game. When people can't get groups for what they want to do, they leave. That just makes the game worse. Of course, that is no longer my problem. I'm out of other, well known issues.

[PlasmaJohn]

Do you know how many times I have used group finder since launch? 4 or 5 times. I don't do group pickups but that doesn't mean i don't group up. I am selective on who I group with. I am not a fan of group pickups especially now as how the leveling is done. You get players that still have the green gear they got when they started the leveling process and if you tell them to upgrade their gear you think you committed some sort of crime.

I'm highly allergic to group finder myself but I recognize its usefulness. I'm not saying it's the only way but despite the jerks and the unteachables it's functional for a much larger population than games that do not have it.

 

Even though I do have a pool of people to run content with most of them were tied up when I needed one more tactical for my weekly. If I didn't need those conquest points I wouldn't have bothered. Was a surprisingly decent run for an all DPS Legacy of Rakata where two of us were 70 and the other two were 20.