.. and the award for Worst MMO Business Model in 2016 goes to ...

[Vember]

I have seen a bit of rhetoric here and there, especially right after the launch of 5.0, but I have not seen the kind of vitriol I have seen in the past.

 

Plenty of complaints, one might argue one of the largest volumes of complaints, but less diatribe than in the past.

 

How can you say that when it's the same ten or so people in every thread?

 

People aren't even talking about it in game any more, still 3 instances of the fleet at night, 2-3 instances per planet, still 40-50 people on in my guild every night, and that's just one of three imp guilds that we have. 99% of the drama over this is being perpetuated by the same crowd on the forums.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Vember

[TUXs]

How can you say that when it's the same ten or so people in every thread?

What bunk. It's new people posting it. It's new people complaining. It's new people starting the threads. The only thing that hasn't changed are the names of the people defending it.

[Vember]

What bunk. It's new people posting it. It's new people complaining. It's new people starting the threads. The only thing that hasn't changed are the names of the people defending it.

 

Please, there's the occasional new name in a thread, but the vast majority of the posts are a very select few individuals.

[Jamtas]

Please, there's the occasional new name in a thread, but the vast majority of the posts are a very select few individuals.

 

and even fewer are the sames names defending it.

[TUXs]

Please, there's the occasional new name in a thread, but the vast majority of the posts are a very select few individuals.

Replies...not posts. I'll agree that most replies in any thread are done by a small group of people (on either side) probably 90% of the time...but the posts being created, are overwhelmingly from NEW people posting their disgust with RNG and gearing now.

[Vember]

Replies...not posts. I'll agree that most replies in any thread are done by a small group of people (on either side) probably 90% of the time...but the posts being created, are overwhelmingly from NEW people posting their disgust with RNG and gearing now.

 

Posts and replies are synonymous. And i'm not really seeing any new "threads", just the same old bleating from the usual crowd.

[Tsillah]

just the same old bleating from the usual crowd.

 

Yourself included I guess.

[Khevar]

... just the same old bleating from the usual crowd.

This is what I was talking about earlier.

 

You could choose to debate the ISSUES. But you don't. Instead you talk smack about the people posting.

 

Why is that?

Edited December 28, 2016 by Khevar

[Costello]

The big ones up, Best expansion of 2016, how will KOTET fair.

 

http://massivelyop.com/2016/12/28/massively-ops-best-of-2016-awards-mmorpg-expansion-of-the-year/

 

So far 17 people have voted for Kotet and none of the staff put it forward. I don't even think that took into consideration 5.0. At this point is it time for the team to take note. While a vast improvement over Kotfe, 9 chapters of Valky Sue freezing time and whispering in your ear and a story so full of plot holes that makes it hard to know whats going on, didn't really deliver to compelling expansion we all hoped for.

 

Focusing on Story great, telling an epic account of war torn galaxy amazing. Meet the Valkorians, please gods no.

[light_senshi]

I can't speak for many others but until recently, I've been quiet about the whole thing. So, no, it's not "just" the same few people.

[Tsillah]

The big ones up, Best expansion of 2016, how will KOTET fair.

 

http://massivelyop.com/2016/12/28/massively-ops-best-of-2016-awards-mmorpg-expansion-of-the-year/

 

So far 17 people have voted for Kotet and none of the staff put it forward. I don't even think that took into consideration 5.0. At this point is it time for the team to take note. While a vast improvement over Kotfe, 9 chapters of Valky Sue freezing time and whispering in your ear and a story so full of plot holes that makes it hard to know whats going on, didn't really deliver to compelling expansion we all hoped for.

 

Focusing on Story great, telling an epic account of war torn galaxy amazing. Meet the Valkorians, please gods no.

 

Uhm it says KOTET...that is 5.0 ....

[Vember]

This is what I was talking about earlier.

 

You could choose to debate the ISSUES. But you don't. Instead you talk smack about the people posting.

 

Why is that?

 

Check Aowin's thread, it should be pretty clear "why is that". Most of these people aren't interested in debating anything, they just want to piss and moan about 5.0, and anyone that doesn't agree is a white knight.

 

Like I said, what little complaining there was in game has died down, and the population seems to be about the same.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Vember

[TUXs]

Check Aowin's thread, it should be pretty clear "why is that". Most of these people aren't interested in debating anything, they just want to piss and moan about 5.0, and anyone that doesn't agree is a white knight.

The only people I see not interested in debating anything are the typical defenders...the people who say "if you don't like it, quit" or "why are you playing"...the typical trash replies that indicate they have no substance to offer to the criticism, just personal attacks.

 

I've been very detailed about why RNG gearing is a terrible idea and what it has caused in the game...if you'd truly like to debate anything Vember, I'd be happy to do so...but you never do. You just want to silence dissenting views, not change them or understand them.

[benmas]

Check Aowin's thread, it should be pretty clear "why is that". Most of these people aren't interested in debating anything, they just want to piss and moan about 5.0, and anyone that doesn't agree is a white knight.

 

Like I said, what little complaining there was in game has died down, and the population seems to be about the same.

 

Aowin, like him or hate him, is the only person who likes 5.0 that isn't going "don't like it quit" he is actually debating with players (although some of the facts he is pulling are questionable) in the RNG is perfect thread has debating going on unlike most other threads.

[Khevar]

Aowin, like him or hate him, is the only person who likes 5.0 that isn't going "don't like it quit" he is actually debating with players (although some of the facts he is pulling are questionable) in the RNG is perfect thread has debating going on unlike most other threads.

Quite true.

 

While I do not agree with Aowin's views, I respect the fact that Aowin spends more time talking about GC and RNG itself, and less time making snarky / snide comments about the other posters.

Most of these people aren't interested in debating anything, they just want to piss and moan about 5.0, and anyone that doesn't agree is a white knight.

While there are people that fit that description, there are plenty that present their views in a reasonable fashion, and are willing to discuss them.

 

You could engage with those people, if you wished.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Khevar

[Vember]

Aowin, like him or hate him, is the only person who likes 5.0 that isn't going "don't like it quit" he is actually debating with players (although some of the facts he is pulling are questionable) in the RNG is perfect thread has debating going on unlike most other threads.

 

I can only think of two people that's been posting "don't like it quit". Unless I'm missing something. And one of them hasn't posted in these threads in over a week.

 

While there are people that fit that description, there are plenty that present their views in a reasonable fashion, and are willing to discuss them.

 

You could engage with those people, if you wished.

 

I don't know about plenty...there's Tsillah and Morrigan, and TUX (sometimes), but not many.

 

Quite true.

 

While I do not agree with Aowin's views, I respect the fact that Aowin spends more time talking about GC and RNG itself, and less time making snarky / snide comments about the other posters.

 

 

Which is amazing, considering how rude and hateful people were toward him.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Vember

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Check Aowin's thread, it should be pretty clear "why is that". Most of these people aren't interested in debating anything, they just want to piss and moan about 5.0, and anyone that doesn't agree is a white knight.

 

Like I said, what little complaining there was in game has died down, and the population seems to be about the same.

 

How about you check the thread and you provide the numbers of individual posters in that thread that are against 5.0 changes etc. vs those are for them? After all you're theo ne harping on about it being the same usual few posters but haven't a thing to back it up.

 

You won't do this of course because you know the results would make you look rather silly after these recent posts you've made.

 

But by all means, prove me wrong.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Aowin, like him or hate him, is the only person who likes 5.0 that isn't going "don't like it quit" he is actually debating with players (although some of the facts he is pulling are questionable) in the RNG is perfect thread has debating going on unlike most other threads.

 

The guy is a blatant troll as far as I'm concerned. Many times people have tried to engage him in reasoned debate and when they make a point he can't contest logically he either goes off on some other tangent altogether or ignores them.

 

He is either arguing for arguments sake or like bumping that thread for some other reason.

 

I long since gave up replying to him unless someone else in the thread makes something new and interesting to respond to but for the most part it's just rehashing the same nonsense he went on about earlier on and had been shot down numerous times.

[Jeweledleah]

The only people I see not interested in debating anything are the typical defenders...the people who say "if you don't like it, quit" or "why are you playing"...the typical trash replies that indicate they have no substance to offer to the criticism, just personal attacks.

 

I've been very detailed about why RNG gearing is a terrible idea and what it has caused in the game...if you'd truly like to debate anything Vember, I'd be happy to do so...but you never do. You just want to silence dissenting views, not change them or understand them.

 

precisely.

 

I've also explained exactly why the game in general currently has a very player unfriendly model. in detail. it was never particularly friendly but KOTET amplified already existing issues. but that just makes me a hater and a whiner, dontcha know?

[TrixxieTriss]

The only people I see not interested in debating anything are the typical defenders...the people who say "if you don't like it, quit" or "why are you playing"...the typical trash replies that indicate they have no substance to offer to the criticism, just personal attacks.

 

I've been very detailed about why RNG gearing is a terrible idea and what it has caused in the game...if you'd truly like to debate anything Vember, I'd be happy to do so...but you never do. You just want to silence dissenting views, not change them or understand them.

 

Agreed ^^

[Kurj]

I don't understand the "quit or be quiet" crowd either, but they do have a point: the only thing that BWA appears to listen to is subscription losses. After my last disinti-crate, I cancelled and haven't been tempted to log in since. I don't know if I'll log in again, or re-up if the changes in January iron things out, but I do know one thing for sure: the game in its current state is not something I want to spend my money and free time on. There is no new content worth playing, and there is no reward that bears any rational relationship to the amount of effort required.

[LordArtemis]

How can you say that when it's the same ten or so people in every thread?

 

People aren't even talking about it in game any more, still 3 instances of the fleet at night, 2-3 instances per planet, still 40-50 people on in my guild every night, and that's just one of three imp guilds that we have. 99% of the drama over this is being perpetuated by the same crowd on the forums.

 

Well, frankly that is how it is for most threads in this forum. There are perhaps somewhere between 30 to 40 regular or semi-regular posters, and those that post occasionally.

 

...and perhaps some of the drop off in chat might be due to the fact that Bioware expressed interest in making certain changes to GC that satiated some folks. The same has happened in the forums.

 

In this forum sides will form. It happens quite often, and rarely does one side monopolize logic or common sense.

 

 

 

Now, in addition, I do thnk it is unlikely that Bioware would react as they did to a tiny amount of players making noise, and it is also silly to insinuate that this change has had a tiny effect on the game or it's population. My guess would be that both were perhaps not huge groups, but most likely noticeable.

 

I also think it is silly to contend that this change would kill the game, considering the hardcore crowd, the folks most affected by the change likely represent a minority in the population. If the game was to die, it would likely be from a number of factors, including other recent bad decisions, the market, economic trends, player churn and lack of retention, etc.

 

I think dismissing critical feedback of GC is just as silly as demonizing the system itself.

Edited December 29, 2016 by LordArtemis

[Blakinik]

Too me, the poll seems to be the opinion of 5 people and 2 said swtor. Oh no - 2 people dislike the game on a website that I never heard of until the OP posted it. Oh the humanity!

 

I think Dulfy.net has more influence against the game than they do. Furthermore, if this was IGN or Steam MMORPG.com then I'd worry. But these clowns seem to be whining more about the lack of free F2P stuff than the game itself.

[LordArtemis]

Too me, the poll seems to be the opinion of 5 people and 2 said swtor. Oh no - 2 people dislike the game on a website that I never heard of until the OP posted it. Oh the humanity!

 

I think Dulfy.net has more influence against the game than they do. Furthermore, if this was IGN or Steam MMORPG.com then I'd worry. But these clowns seem to be whining more about the lack of free F2P stuff than the game itself.

 

Again, this game does not exist in a vacuum. I think it is pretty obvious that the general consensus from ALL sources web wide has leaned toward being critical of the current business model here, especially compared to other games on the market.

[Tralan]

Rift has the worst business model and has ruined their game by the gear changes and the only reason they have less votes for worst right now is because of the masses that left it after their severe failed expansion