Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Aelexx]

Great that someone finally brought this up and that it's getting more attention. This together with poor framerate will be the main reasons I won't keep playing for long.

 

This game got great potential. Unfortunatly this is such a huge deal for me and many others. Gameplay is by far the most important thing and I'm extremely curious as to why this game and many other MMOs before it have these problems. Do they even consider them problems themselves or are they just not able to figure it out? Would be cool to know.

[Zironic]

That what you think you are doing, the server decides you are doing and what someone else hence is seeing you do differs. That is tbe truth in WoW and the reason is the server acceptance of dys-synch.

 

It is great for PvE since avatar control feels great. It is actually quite bad in PvP - or rather really bad.

 

That's how real time multi-player games are handled, are you on drugs or something?

[Spirodex]

Half the people here are confusing animations that are too long with the game not executing abilities.

 

The two overlap considerably. If an animation is still taking priority past the cast time and you press another ability, the ability will not execute.

[Xcore]

Well it doesnt help when its the last post on the page and it gets skipped...This is a relevant post and people need to read it..period...you doing shameless bumps is no different so get off your high horse

 

This thread doesn't require shameless bumps, please dont post your previously doubled response again, it has been added to the thread... anyone serious about this issue would and should have read through the last thread and this one.

 

 

p.s.: my horse is still in the shed

Edited December 28, 2011 by Xcore

[fallenvirtues]

It needs to be acknowledged the problem isnt with the animations..This is the way SWTOR is doing their combat...The problem is in the execution when hitting the button...

 

All of you are right when you say the ability should start as soon as you hit the button....But thats the real problem...Not the damage corresponding with the animation

[myrmexaw]

Having experienced Wow's unique fluidity and its instant responsiveness, I certainly can see where people are coming from. So far the small delays haven't been a problem for me but I understand that it annoys in PvP or PvE situations where exact execution is essential, often vital. I haven't gotten into the game's mechanics very elaborately (just blasting my way through levels and quests with my sorcerer) so I probably have yet to experience the biggest issues the delay causes and thus may be talking out of ignorance. However, I do think that the character's animations should properly finish before being able to perform the next ability. I mean, there's certain realism to it that characters can't just "teleport" their bodyparts in midst of another animation forming a new posture from where to perform the lastly commanded ability's animation. Maybe the fundamental problem is that the indicators informing the player about the controllability of his/her avatar are not being entirely 'honest'?

 

or that some abilities are not being animated correctly ... the fluidity is alright but again i will come back with my mortar volley example stated all over this thread where the animation does not start before you are actually halfway trough the channel bar .

 

It also is the reason why the damage seem to be off it's because most animation are not clipped properly slowing down the reading of the codeline of the skill used.

Edited December 28, 2011 by myrmexaw

[Darth_Eclipses]

This issue is unbelievable.

 

This is evident everywhere, from mounting to capturing nodes in Ald or VS. There is a .5 second window after you finish the cast timer on either arming or disarming, or capping a point wherein which you can still be interrupted.

 

This. is. game. breaking.

 

As a healer, doing level 50 HM's it is absolutely necessary at times for me to chain cast to keep my team alive. Derp, back to back cast timers actually can do a number of things:

 

* Cancel out your ability totally, while still playing the animation but no effect

* Cancel out the animation but still apply the effect (in this case a heal)

* Get caught in a jerky animation bug where every time I try to cast an ability I will do a quick animation start then it will be canceled, when I try again (about a split second later) I will get the jerk start/stop bug again, this will repeat over and over for a time. Pausing didn't stop this issue. This has caused deaths and wipes and repair bills.

 

This is absolutely debilitating to high level play, in the worst way. We're gearing up to start raids very very soon and can you imagine trying to take bosses with this buggy combat system?

 

Uggh.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Darth_Eclipses

[fallenvirtues]

This thread doesn't require shameless bumps, please do post your previously doubled response again, it has been added to the thread... anyone serious about this issue would and should have read through the last thread and this one.

 

 

p.s.: my horse is still in the shed

 

I have read a crap load of posts including yours...I played wow since 2004...I get what your talking about...And I can go back and quote a post of yours saying "bump" in it...

 

I am not trying to be at odds with you cause I am not really disagreeing with the fact that something needs to be done about the response time when clicking/pressing a attack/ability...I think if this was tweaked and fix, it would make the animations fall within the GCD...Also the problem that abilities are not executing at all especially if you are spamming the button...The first time you hit it needs to be priority...

 

What I was trying to get across with that post is there is 2 different issues getting blended in to 1 but only 1 needs fixing and thats when you hit the button, it should immediately start the ability

[Xcore]

It needs to be acknowledged the problem isnt with the animations..This is the way SWTOR is doing their combat...The problem is in the execution when hitting the button...

 

All of you are right when you say the ability should start as soon as you hit the button....But thats the real problem...Not the damage corresponding with the animation

 

Sadly, its far more complex than that, the original thread goes into this deeply before page 100. Just to mention a part of it is the way animations link or should link/clip in succession within a tight rotation for example.

[Xcore]

This issue is unbelievable.

 

This is evident everywhere, from mounting to capturing nodes in Ald or VS. There is a .5 second window after you finish the cast timer on either arming or disarming, or capping a point wherein which you can still be interrupted.

 

This. is. game. breaking.

 

As a healer, doing level 50 HM's it is absolutely necessary at times for me to chain cast to keep my team alive. Derp, back to back cast timers actually can do a number of things:

 

* Cancel out your ability totally, while still playing the animation but no effect

* Cancel out the animation but still apply the effect (in this case a heal)

* Get caught in a jerky animation bug where every time I try to cast an ability I will do a quick animation start then it will be canceled, when I try again (about a split second later) I will get the jerk start/stop bug again, this will repeat over and over for a time. This has caused deaths and wipes and repair bills.

 

This is absolutely debilitating to high level play, in the worst way. We're gearing up to start raids very very soon and can you imagine trying to take bosses with this buggy combat system?

 

Uggh.

 

I don't do this often but: quoted for emphasis

[Larlar]

You wrote this essay and didn't even understand what my point was.

 

Nice. I was saying that stating something is automatically better because it is more popular is foolish. You did a great job of proving my point.

 

If you are saying WoW had great PvP you don't know what good PvP is. There is no way you can argue yourself out of this hole. Sorry. WoW players will tell you this. Honestly...

 

 

 

Latching on to people who agree with you without thinking is cool I hear.

 

Retrospectively adapting your 'point' doesn't mean I didn't understand it. It just means you changed it.

 

This thread, and its predecessor, are incredibly important for the future of this game, so you will understand if I won't be further engaging with you as you haven't added anything contructive to this discussion and furthermore seem intent on derailing the discussion.

 

--

 

I hope that people continue to chime in with support for this thread as many hundreds have done already. The vast majority will not comment here but simply realise something isnt quite right and cancel. No one wants this to happen.

 

I think we all desperately want this game to succeed but fear that, as the TS stated in the original thread title, this problem and its associated nuances will suck the life out of this game at max level once we have finished the comparatively simple levelling process.

[noogi]

fix it , please

[Babykoui]

/bump

[Nissin]

If they created animations off of cast times what is their magical solution once level 50s start to get massive amount of Alacrity and cause even more ability delay problems. Needs to be fixed it is impossible to try and move directly after casting without it failing.

[fallenvirtues]

Sadly, its far more complex than that, the original thread goes into this deeply before page 100. Just to mention a part of it is the way animations link or should link/clip in succession within a tight rotation for example.

 

Right...But if the ability immediately when in to action upon hitting the button, and it need be adjustment on the animation time length, then everything would work tightly and link nicely...and keep in mind...not everyone is experiencing this problem much if at all..me being one...Occassionally I will have to hit a button more then once to make sure it goes through but thats about it!

[SuperSair]

Trying to play a melee class in pvp with this is horrifying. Abilities that are off the GCD aren't really off the GCD. Defensive CDs rarely pop when i tell them too, and my character stutters constantly when trying to work Riposte or Master Strike into my rotation.

 

The only solution is to stop button mashing and add more fluidity to your rotation. Memorizing animations and the sort. It adds a weird degree of skill, but at the same time; it is just debilitating in hectic combat situations where every instinct of a MMOer i have is to mash or move before the animation is done.

 

You may say that this is because they put a focus on animations but in the end these little "hiccups" take so much away from how the animations look that it just defeats the purpose.

 

Top end play will be crippled until this is fixed, but i don't see it being fixed for a while.

Edited December 28, 2011 by SuperSair

[Norril]

Totally agree with OP. I find myself button mashing my skills, rather than fluid timing for a perfect sequence of attacks/heals. Most of my deaths are from this issue. PvP isn't fun at all. There is no skill, just button mashing and jumping.

 

Please fix.

[Dademoor]

I must say . . . I whole heartedly agree with the OP.

 

Combat delays of any sort are just unacceptable by todays standards.

 

If anyone has played LOTRO they will understand. They have such an amazing story line, great group dynamic content, and boss fights that would blow the socks off a World of Warcraft raider! Durning the first year or so if its life posts JUST like this one here poped up all over the place. It took the developers another 2 years to accept that their combat mechnics were unacceptable and finally made a change. Unfortunatly the change was not enough (they only reduced the combat delay and did not get rid of it all together).

 

I love this game. I played in Beta and play everyday now. I am leveling slowly and enjoying every aspect of the game I can. AMAZING job Bioware! But if this kinda of combat responsivness continues I only see myself playing this game for about as long as I played LOTRO, which is quite sad considering I have been waiting for this game since 2009.

 

So Please Please Please drop what you are doing Right Now, and focus 100% of your resources on resolving this!

[Xcore]

It needs to be acknowledged the problem isnt with the animations..This is the way SWTOR is doing their combat...The problem is in the execution when hitting the button...

 

All of you are right when you say the ability should start as soon as you hit the button....But thats the real problem...Not the damage corresponding with the animation

 

I don't disagree but I think there may be more to it behind the scenes.

[Elog]

That's how real time multi-player games are handled, are you on drugs or something?

 

Come on. Your statement is false. In a truly competetive FPS game 'what you see is what you get' is absolutely critical. In WoW this is not true - and this is the reason why you feel that combat is so responsive. It is an illusion. As I have stated before I like this illusion and would like BW to import it to SWtoR but I am baffled by the so called l33t PvPers in this thread that hails it. It sucks for PvP.

 

In WoW this is done by allowing a mis-match in time stamps between client and server up to a roof (i believe it is 0.5sec). To show what I mean - take a look at the following example:

 

2 players at 40 FPS and with 150ms latency are PvPing. Both have 350ms in reaction time.

 

Player one starts a 0.5sec cast:

 

0.0 P1 starts cast

0.175 P2 sees the cast starting

0.5 P1 sees spell fire

0.525 P2 interrupts cast of P1 on P2s screen (end of cast on P2s screen).

0.7 P1 gets the interrupt msg

 

However, it is great for the feeling of control of your avatar and in PvE it is excellent. For PvP it is really questionable.

 

Net-net I would rather have it in SWtoR than not but do not make claims that are untrue.

[DIggu]

This issue is unbelievable.

 

This is evident everywhere, from mounting to capturing nodes in Ald or VS. There is a .5 second window after you finish the cast timer on either arming or disarming, or capping a point wherein which you can still be interrupted.

 

This. is. game. breaking.

 

As a healer, doing level 50 HM's it is absolutely necessary at times for me to chain cast to keep my team alive. Derp, back to back cast timers actually can do a number of things:

 

* Cancel out your ability totally, while still playing the animation but no effect

* Cancel out the animation but still apply the effect (in this case a heal)

* Get caught in a jerky animation bug where every time I try to cast an ability I will do a quick animation start then it will be canceled, when I try again (about a split second later) I will get the jerk start/stop bug again, this will repeat over and over for a time. Pausing didn't stop this issue. This has caused deaths and wipes and repair bills.

 

This is absolutely debilitating to high level play, in the worst way. We're gearing up to start raids very very soon and can you imagine trying to take bosses with this buggy combat system?

 

Uggh.

 

 

QFT!!!

 

This is exactly what I was talking about in my post about playing a Merc (healing) BH!

[fallenvirtues]

I don't disagree but I think there may be more to it behind the scenes.

 

And you could definitely be right about that...But as someone stated before as they were looking at code, I really think this can be rectified...Since the coders dictate how long this cast takes or how long the animation is and etc, everything has been written and should be able to be adjusted...

 

To me it sounds like a bug within the UI

 

And I do agree, A DEV NEEDS TO SPEAK ON THIS!!! Give us an idea of their take and allow us to move from there

[sac-]

Are you saying that not 'mashing' buttons and watching your avatar is the solution?

 

Great, guess I'm doing this all wrong then. Never before any game made me 'mash' keybinds and forget about everything but my bar just to make sure my skill went off like this game did.

[flunkorg]

I'm level 21 and I finally see what your talking about.

Games still perfectly playable for me though, but I do hope for a fix soon.

[Khoranth]

So I took my Sentinel out to check something I mentioned in the other thread.

 

I tossed my lightsaber at an enemy (Crippling Throw) and was unable to perform any attacks until I had caught my lightsaber.

 

I think this is incredibly awesome. If this is the line in the sand (as it were) for some people to go back to WoW, then.....have fun? It'll be great to log into the forums and not see thread after thread that all basically say "We want SWTOR to do <XXXXXXXXX> like WoW!!!!"

 

What a joke. As if WoW is the only game ever with good response?

 

Trying to deflect the problem by saying since WoW has responsive combat, swtor shouldn't, cause we dont want it to be like WoW is insane. Do you people realize what a bad argument that is?

 

When i played super mario brothers and pressed a button little mario did what i told him to do immediately, if there was a .5 second delay on mario brothers the entire mario genre would have failed, maybe even nintendo.

 

Stop making it sound like WoW is the only game with responsive combat, all good games have responsive combat.

 

When i press a button my character needs to do what i told him to do ( barring GCd or other CD's of course), anything else is unnacceptable.