Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[MaceTowani]

hah. funny thing is, the sarcasm completely escaped you. you see, this was an instance of, what you said wasn't really worth 1) defending 2) explaining or 3) wasting breath/finger energy on.[/Quote]

 

No, I knew you were sarcastic, but I decided to feed the beast.

 

now, i'll briefly explain and waste that breath/finger energy.

3) you completely forget human nature, which dictates that no matter how well you plan, SOMETHING is going to come along and fubar the entire encounter. yeah, you do your best to prepare for it, but ... well, ok, it's like coding. i designed databases and their gui for years. and you would be SIMPLY amazed at some of the "mistakes" people can do, and the completely random things they can cause to happen.

 

 

one can do everything possible to anticipate and head off as much as they can envision, but SOMEONE somewhere's gonna come along who makes you say, "oh, wow, never seen THAT before."

 

OK, you make mistakes and you pay for them. What, you expect to win ALL the time?

 

 

having a casting system that doesn't rely on animation completion to continue will be a huge asset in these circumstances. having a raid ui that accurately depicts players' health will also be a huge asset -- if i'm watching my tank's health, and he's not moving, then he's lying on the ground dead, there's a problem. there's no ability to operate with that. but this post isn't about the broken ui, it's about the broken cast-timer/animation "feature." and while, again, my hat's off to you for being such a superior and glorious exemplifaction of the healing arts, i submit that you're going to hit that brick wall sooner or later, and all your planning and anticipating isn't going to be worth anything.

 

course, at that point, you will refuse to acknowledge that having casts that worked appropriately mighta headed off a bad situation, and probably fall back on the old standard of blaming the other person. *shrugs* enjoy.

 

If you TRULY memorized everything from the GCD to the animation timing and you are NOT getting pummeled by your enemies who WILL INTERRUPT OR PROLONG YOUR CASTING then you should be experiencing ZERO difficulties like I am.

 

If not then hey, this thing is a case-by-case basis then and thus not a priority to the Devs at the moment.

[Xzenorath]

Funnily enough, the SW:TOR vanish has the exact same problems with not dropping combat, appearing to drop combat then when you initiate combat the mobs you vanished from will come chasing after you, being knocked out of vanish by abilities with a delay such as project. Mind trap randomly breaking when used on mobs.

 

The difference is that ability lag in vanilla was due to server issues, in SW:TOR its due to an idiotic decision by someone who should never be allowed to work on a videogame again.

 

It's similar issues in the same genre. It's hard to make everything work 100% of the time, and unfortunately it takes a lot of testing and it takes a while.

 

It'll be fixed, just like it was in WOW.

[andanetr]

Perhaps you could get a better computer or set your graphics appropriately? You talking about sluggishness is a different issue. A character completing an animation that you dedicated them into by pressing an ability before completing the next one is not "sluggish", its realistic. Pressing a button while standing there doing nothing then having it take effect 0.5 seconds later - that is YOUR computer acting up.

 

My latency is 35ms, my computer is top of the range. It's the engine. As the OP put in his first post. Try reading?

Edited December 28, 2011 by andanetr

[Darth_Trepicade]

wish we could request this thread to be a sticky

[Xzenorath]

So because a completely different mmo has/has more problems than this one, we should just accept this problem?

 

People like you (yes you people!) Really don't get the fact that we re vocal about this because....

We want to play this game for a very long time to come! That's why we want aspects to improve!

 

Please try to keep that fact in mind when replying to this thread. We aren't attacking the game, we want to help make it something truely amazing, for "you people" as much as for us.

 

And I'm totally for making it better. This is why I'm here, to reign back the idiots who keep claiming MMOs launch perfectly smooth with responsive combat that works 100% of the time.

 

It's never happened and it never will. There's always bugs and there's always patches. They'll fix it, monday's patch already had a UI fix with the GCD not displaying properly.

 

It's going to get there and if you love the game half as much as I do and have been around this industry only half as long as I have, then you'll understand that it WILL be fixed.

 

Just tired of watching people saying they're cancelling 8 days after an MMO comes out because it's not 100% bug free.

 

Why did you even waste your money on the game to begin with is beyond me.

[oflow]

Wow, 54 pages of utter ********.

 

Stop staring at the GCD and get into the animation flow.

 

Yes, the current client/server ability synch is a little off, but I'm sure it'll be tweaked and in the meantime its not that big of a deal. If you REALLY think it's a big deal, don't play. Seriously. 54 pages? Jesus.

 

A bigger worry is that some animations are longer than the GCD...lol...bad Bioware!

 

Again, this will be fixed.

 

Go outside.

 

 

The thing you are overlooking is a lot of people obviously think it is a big deal (based on how big this thread is) and will actually take your advice and stop playing.

 

And if enough people stop playing the game will fail, and it can happen quickly too. Honestly they have 3-4 months before the next wave of next-gen MMOs come out. While this isnt a huge issue to you, to lots of people that pvp its enough to make them stop playing and move on to greener pastures when that time comes.

 

Also, the only reason the thread has grown as large as it has because there is no official response to the issue. So saying it will be fixed sounds good but people would rather hear it from an official response than some special snowflake that thinks eveythings great, with the typical, "Relax, give it time, have fun" type apologist response.

 

No official response means either they just dont want to admit that its an issue for fear of starting a panic or they dont know how to fix it. Both of which are bad.

Edited December 28, 2011 by oflow

[mbernert]

i can answer that, as i was still there until pre-release. they largely addressed the issue and combat is smoother. imo, the biggest difference i've seen between rift's launch (i was there) and swtor's launch (been here too) has been rift's attention to their customers. a for-instance -- something like this issue would never have reached this many posts without being CLEARLY addressed within, at most, 48 hours. they may say, hey guys, we see this is a problem, not sure how to fix it but we are working on it, but it would have been clearly and emphatically addressed. another for-instance? rift keeps their gms in the genchat and level-chat channels of its players. if something's being griped about on-screen in any of those, it's not out-of-the blue to get a server message saying, "hey, guys, we hear you, give us a few, we're working on it." lastly, rift is so far the king of hotfixes. these problems, once brought to their attention AND recognized to us, and responded to, are usually fixed very quickly. bioware/ea's customer service, imo, is going to be a greater factor to customer retention than anything else. and i will admit, i got spoiled by the level of care rift has for its paying subscriber base.

 

I was on rift at launch as well. Bugs I don't mind, they happen in new mmos. Class imbalance? no big deal either, that can be changed.

 

What I don't think can be changed, and why so many games that have come out in the last 10 years haven't held my attention like wow did, is the feeling of controling my character, without delay.

 

Call me an elitist jerk, or however some poeple here may see it. But to me ,this games story is interesting, the questing is fun, but when I am done with all that, which we all eventually will be, what is there left? Pvp, end game raiding and/or gear hunting. I am the type of player I like to maximize how I play. If i'm in a warzone, and 3 people come at me, i just don't mash buttons, think of how much fun it is to blindly hopping around, die and come back out. I like to try and figure out how I can win, or if its even possible. (ok, stun this guy, use force speed to get about 50-60 yards away from him to buy myself time to root another guy, throw up some dots on the 3rd, try to kite all 3 ect. ect..). With the current system in play, and with rifts, this is near impossible because of very slow response times via keyboard to character.

Edited December 28, 2011 by mbernert

[Darth_Trepicade]

bump . Or the ones that bought the collectors addition and THEN decided to quit....

[AlkalineKitten]

Excellent discussions, guys!

[Paganini]

And I'm totally for making it better. This is why I'm here, to reign back the idiots who keep claiming MMOs launch perfectly smooth with responsive combat that works 100% of the time.

 

It's never happened and it never will. There's always bugs and there's always patches. They'll fix it, monday's patch already had a UI fix with the GCD not displaying properly.

 

It's going to get there and if you love the game half as much as I do and have been around this industry only half as long as I have, then you'll understand that it WILL be fixed.

 

Just tired of watching people saying they're cancelling 8 days after an MMO comes out because it's not 100% bug free.

 

Why did you even waste your money on the game to begin with is beyond me.

 

Some posts on this forum are partially wrong, or half-wrong, or just silly. But this is one of those special posts that is just so amazingly and completely wrong that it deserves some sort of medal for misinformation and stupidity.

 

I'm not going to repeat myself but everything in this post has been debunked in only the past few pages.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Paganini

[Xzenorath]

I'm sorry (and a little confused) that you can't see how this is a big issue for people who care about playing in a fun and competitive MMO environment.

 

Really? 8 days after release? You're playing competitive content right now? This isn't an e-sport homie, it's a game. I play on a high level and I'm skilled, sure it's buggy and some of it is annoying, but to come here and make a thousand long page thread repeating the same issue which will obviously be fixed just blows my mind.

 

What blows my mind even harder is people talking about leaving already. Just pure idiocy.

[Scelerant]

It's similar issues in the same genre. It's hard to make everything work 100% of the time, and unfortunately it takes a lot of testing and it takes a while.

 

It'll be fixed, just like it was in WOW.

 

Vanish is piss easy to fix, just add a 3 second immunity to incoming direct damage upon use that breaks when you do damage.

[Paganini]

sure it's buggy and some of it is annoying,.

 

 

Thanks for admitting you're wrong

[Isende]

Please have a look at this little scenario with me:

 

You're in a group, doing your strategy and anticipation thing. You cast heals on your group members, one heal after the other, with little breaks inbetween. Now you don't look at the GCD indicator, nor the cast bar. Instead, you watch your character's animation to know when it's okay to cast the next heal. Everything's just fine.

 

To give this a little more structure, let's say in the above situation, you're casting an arbitrary amount of spells with a combined cast time of X within a timeframe with the length N. On paper (in the tooltips), these spells have either a cast time of 1.5 seconds (GCD) or longer, depending on the spell.

 

Then, in the above situation, you'll probably have X < N.

 

Now, you get to the boss, and your group is taking much more damage. You can still anticipate, strategically casting your heals on your group. However, now the damage is so high that in order to keep your group alive, you need to have be actively casting heals 100% of the time. X = N.

 

My question to you is: how can you do that, if you cannot rely on the information that you receive from your UI's GCD indicator and cast bar?

 

another point this person forgot was the amount of force we have to play with. there is no such thing, in swtor, as full health bars in boss fights. i don't have a problem with that; again, been healing a long time. if my tank's still up, even with only 1hp, i'm happy. further, if i can keep my dps up, so the fight doesn't drag out forever, i'm happier. but trying to "anticipate the damage ..." and keep everyone topped off to avoid catastrophic occurrences is not feasible, simply because you would oof (love that - oom = outta mana, oof = outta force) very quickly. and to further add to it, we HAVE no "force pots" to top it off. we have a spell that converts OUR hp into force in dire circumstances, and i rely on that. but if i'm taking a beating, i'm caught between keeping myself alive, keeping my tank alive, keeping my dps firing off, and trying to ensure i have enough life in myself to be ABLE to use that spell. all in all, something's gonna give, and it's usually at least one player, if you try to keep everyone topped off.

[Xzenorath]

Thanks for admitting you're wrong

 

Never claimed it was perfect.

 

I claim it will be fixed, making this thread utterly useless.

[sdream]

And I'm totally for making it better. This is why I'm here, to reign back the idiots who keep claiming MMOs launch perfectly smooth with responsive combat that works 100% of the time.

 

The only idiot I can see here is you and another biodrone. Because I mean, people are so stupid to expect better after paying $60-$150 + sales tax or VAT. They need to shell out another $180 for 1 year of subscription before they can actually enjoy the product they already paid for. You make so much sense.

[andanetr]

Wow, 54 pages of utter ********.

 

Stop staring at the GCD and get into the animation flow.

 

Yes, the current client/server ability synch is a little off, but I'm sure it'll be tweaked and in the meantime its not that big of a deal. If you REALLY think it's a big deal, don't play. Seriously. 54 pages? Jesus.

 

A bigger worry is that some animations are longer than the GCD...lol...bad Bioware!

 

Again, this will be fixed.

 

Go outside.

 

Actually it's 300 pages. Seems to suggest its fairly important, no?

[Isende]

No, I knew you were sarcastic, but I decided to feed the beast.

 

 

 

OK, you make mistakes and you pay for them. What, you expect to win ALL the time?

 

 

 

 

If you TRULY memorized everything from the GCD to the animation timing and you are NOT getting pummeled by your enemies who WILL INTERRUPT OR PROLONG YOUR CASTING then you should be experiencing ZERO difficulties like I am.

 

If not then hey, this thing is a case-by-case basis then and thus not a priority to the Devs at the moment.

 

lol, your arrogance is so cute!

[Paganini]

Never claimed it was perfect.

 

I claim it will be fixed, making this thread utterly useless.

 

So your stance is that video game players should never complain and compile information about things that they notice to be broken?

[swtorDIBAT]

Its sad how people are saying "It just came out dood relax" to those concerned, instead of going "oh thank you for showing examples of the issues within the game, fellow player, and thanks OP!" Casual clickers or those who dont care arent making sense here in their stance.

 

the mentality needs to switch from "stop QQing" to "lets get together and voice it" because there are -no- arguments that can be brought up that this will not eventually break the game for a lot of us.

 

The videos are awesome proof.

WoW did an awesome job with responsiveness, period. Stop defending this game irrationally while bashing WoW. We're all playing this game, aren't we?

[Babykoui]

/bump

[Zakumene]

My latency is 35ms, my computer is top of the range. It's the engine. As the OP put in his first post. Try reading?

 

Again, my game works fine. If its not your hardware....its your software.

 

Wow, troubleshooting is so hard sometimes....

[Isende]

I was on rift at launch as well. Bugs I don't mind, they happen in new mmos. Class imbalance? no big deal either, that can be changed.

 

What I don't think can be changed, and why so many games that have come out in the last 10 years haven't held my attention like wow did, is the feeling of controling my character, without delay.

 

Call me an elitist jerk, or however some poeple here may see it. But to me ,this games story is interesting, the questing is fun, but when I am done with all that, which we all eventually will be, what is there left? Pvp, end game raiding and/or gear hunting. I am the type of player I like to maximize how I play. If i'm in a warzone, and 3 people come at me, i just don't mash buttons, think of how much fun it is to blindly hopping around, die and come back out. I like to try and figure out how I can win, or if its even possible. (ok, stun this guy, use force speed to get about 50-60 yards away from him to buy myself time to root another guy, throw up some dots on the 3rd, try to kite all 3 ect. ect..). With the current system in play, and with rifts, this is near impossible because of very slow response times via keyboard to character.

 

trust me, i totally get your point. i'm the same way -- i enjoy the content and the scenery as i go along, but ...

 

all i can say is that, if it weren't for my boyfriend and my guild being HERE rather than THERE, then THERE is where i'd be.

[Xzenorath]

another point this person forgot was the amount of force we have to play with. there is no such thing, in swtor, as full health bars in boss fights. i don't have a problem with that; again, been healing a long time. if my tank's still up, even with only 1hp, i'm happy. further, if i can keep my dps up, so the fight doesn't drag out forever, i'm happier. but trying to "anticipate the damage ..." and keep everyone topped off to avoid catastrophic occurrences is not feasible, simply because you would oof (love that - oom = outta mana, oof = outta force) very quickly. and to further add to it, we HAVE no "force pots" to top it off. we have a spell that converts OUR hp into force in dire circumstances, and i rely on that. but if i'm taking a beating, i'm caught between keeping myself alive, keeping my tank alive, keeping my dps firing off, and trying to ensure i have enough life in myself to be ABLE to use that spell. all in all, something's gonna give, and it's usually at least one player, if you try to keep everyone topped off.

 

My wife is a full time healer, if you're struggling this hard in fights, then you're either

 

-Too low level for the instance

-Outdated gear

-People aren't avoiding damage like they're supposed to

 

You shouldn't have to heal everyone like crazy non-stop. If you do, then your group mates aren't avoiding the giant glowy circles on the ground or they're not managing their threat properly.

[Paganini]

Again, my game works fine.

 

sure it's buggy and some of it is annoying,.

 

 

Hmmmmm...