"This isn't how we want the game to be played"

[Diefenbaker]

It's funny how a browser based MMO-ish game like Star Wars Combine, with its volunteer team of devs and admins, has better grasp of how to do it than all the alleged professionals at BW Austin.

[Altus_Esterhazy]

Guess we could start organizing massive gold mob farming groups to show them how we want to play the game then? Maybe they'll raise it to 3. Edited December 9, 2016 by Altus_Esterhazy

[KyaniteD]

"This isn't how we want the game to be played."

 

I first became aware of this when they introduced Mara changes back in 2012 or so and prefaced their blog entry by describing how Maras currently are played and how "This isn't how we wanted Maras to be played."

 

I remember that instant because I found it strange that the devs' main reasoning was not improving player experience but enforcing their own vision/idea. (It may or may not have come down to the same thing, it wasn't something anyone had been complaining about, but to me the phrasing alone was a revelation regarding their stance/approach.)

[Sundown]

All game design revolves around incentivizing certain activities. dis-incentivizing others, and balancing them to degrees. When you find that something is inadvertently over-incentivized, you tweak things to get it back in line with how much incentive you intended to provide.

And that is exactly my issue with GC in general. While in theory it is really nice that all activities guarantee progress the same way by contributing to the GC-rank, it is not working (at least for me). Reason is, that due to the anonymous rewards (each individual activity does more or less only grant rewards towards GC) the speed of progress is the real measure and driver for many players. This makes the balance of CXP so crucial and leads to constant change being required, because there will never be balance.

 

I'd like to get rewards relevant for PvP through PvP, same for GSF and PvE.

[majopucik]

"This isn't how we want the game to be played."

 

lol when i heard that from Charles I really wanted to......... do stuff for which i would be banned from forums

[AscendingSky]

Sigh. When people say ‘we’ and ‘all’ they don’t actually mean ‘everyone’ in the whole flipping community. You know what they meant, don’t be ‘that’ person.

 

P.S Looking at your past thread you certainly felt like a loser when the gold mobs were nerfed. Don't be that kind of white knight.

 

Yeah, her bitterness didn't stay long after she was forced to eat her toxic words like crow. She's gone back to being a nasty white knight again.

[AscendingSky]

I first became aware of this when they introduced Mara changes back in 2012 or so and prefaced their blog entry by describing how Maras currently are played and how "This isn't how we wanted Maras to be played."

 

I remember that instant because I found it strange that the devs' main reasoning was not improving player experience but enforcing their own vision/idea. (It may or may not have come down to the same thing, it wasn't something anyone had been complaining about, but to me the phrasing alone was a revelation regarding their stance/approach.)

 

That's really the major problem with the EAWare developers and producers, especially in this past year or two. They need to realize... it doesn't matter if they think the game is fun, or 'exciting', or whatever. If the players don't like it, players will leave.

 

Fun fact: most of the people who have ever played this game have quit already. The vast majority of those players didn't come to the forums trying to air their grievances, hoping EAWare will listen to them and make things better (which is what I have been doing). They've just walked. Which is why we're down from 100 servers to a handful, with only 4 of them active in the NA region.

 

EAWare employees can think the Galactic Command system is the best idea any MMO has had in the history of MMOs, but it won't mean a damn thing if so many players hate it and stop paying subscriptions that EA shuts the game down and gives them their pink slips.

 

They are refusing to look past the tips of their own noses, and I predict it is going to cost them, big time.

Edited December 9, 2016 by AscendingSky

[scardera]

its rly sad to listen to these devs now completely disconected from reality and they will kill this game and fast

[doelow]

This is a common sentiment among developers. They design systems with certain things in mind, entire games really, as well as rules. The rules of a game aren't persay the same thing here, but it's still a limitation set by the creator that dictates how a game ought to be played.

 

I guess I will pose a question here. If the game had launched and people were leveling to 50 in a day or two by sitting in a raid group grinding mobs over and over, then chances are it would have been nerfed. The entire "way it's supposed to be played" was, and still is, going through your class stories, doing FP's, doing PvP, doing space battles, etc. The vision was never "sit here. grind mobs."

 

Somehow I doubt people would have been outraged or so self-righteous about them doing such a nerf. It's not uncommon for developers to make changes to games based on things not "working out" how they thought it would, or because of an unexpected loophole they didn't think of while creating a system. To criticize them for having a vision and for developing a game based around a vision is absurd, because it implies at least a couple of assumptions on the part of the critic.

 

One: That the developers should just not have a cohesive vision.

Two: That the developers "owe" the players some level of inclusion or "pet-issue" attention

 

Neither of these are true. Certainly they should listen to feedback, and all evidence suggests that they -are- listening to feedback. Just because you aren't getting the answers you want specifically, or the results are not occurring at a pleasing rate, doesn't mean they aren't listening. It just means you are perhaps being unreasonable.

 

Whenever you create something, whether it is art, CAD work, an essay, a novel, a garden, a meal, a video game... you have a vision, and you have a right to your vision. To suggest that game developers are arrogant fools for not developing their game based entirely around pet issues and the feedback of their players is nonsense, and to think this system is a personal vendetta against your "freedom" as a player is lunacy. This isn't a democracy and it never was and it never will be.

Edited December 9, 2016 by doelow

[Kromme]

True of course regarding nim operations. But, who I'm talking about are the rest of the population. They can very easily get back to what they were progging on right now. If the person in question likes to do flashpoints at either difficulty they can do that right now. Galactic command has almost no influence on their ability to play any of the content they may want. As an addition, I do think people are ignoring crafting as a legit means to lessen the RNG pain from the crates. Getting 228 mods enhancements, implants, ears, and relics is super easy to do. All they have to do is visit the crew skill trainer and craft a new 220 and reverse engineer it. Super easy to do. After all, people were talking about how they hit legendary on dvl, that means they have all crew skills at their disposal. So they might as well make use of them right? I know that's kinda rude, but there's a point there that I think people are willfully ignoring out of a lack of patience for gear. Maybe that's 4.0's fault. I don't know. All I know is that all the content is completely open to me because I chose to craft mods and enhancements, ears, implants, and relics (or just kept my old stuff).

 

I mean in reality I'd agree that a lot of content needs to see their command experience levels increased including heroics and chapters. But, overall, people still can definitely just play.

 

*cough cough* Why should folks have to grind out anything to get back to clearing the exact same content that they have been clearing for the last 5 years?

[Kromme]

I don't. So we "all" don't. You do.

 

Surprise Surprise, EA's number 1 armor polishing white knight. Just knew you would add your 2 cents.....

[AscendingSky]

*cough cough* Why should folks have to grind out anything to get back to clearing the exact same content that they have been clearing for the last 5 years?

 

Yeah, that's one of the most putrid details of the whole RNG gearing fiasco. If there were some brand new operations to clear with different mechanics and challenges, there'd be a lot more reason and incentive to work on gearing up. But they're asking us to do a whole new grind for the exact same content we did the last five years of grinds to clear. They want us to put in months (or years, if you account for alts and not just gearing your main) of effort just to return to the status quo. When we haven't had any new ops content for OVER TWO YEARS after they promised we'd never go more than one without it.

 

No thanks, EAWare. I don't need a second job, and I'm not a masochist.

Edited December 9, 2016 by AscendingSky

[rheia]

You know, all the people who talk about RNG system as a new vision, need to take a good, long look at the past of the game first. It has been tried about 5 years ago. It failed. They got rid of it.

 

Now they doing it again. Why?

 

Is it because WOW does it? If so, they are copying the wrong thing. Yeah, WOW has RNG. But their expansion has new proper dungeons, new raids, new strongholds, new factions, and a much longer story. And they talking about adding more raids, more new events, celebrations, etc. They pack more content in one expansion than SWTOR released in years of 'updates'.

 

And all SWTOR team decides to adopt is RNG system?

 

Or maybe it isn't because of WOW.

 

After their recent communication, I am beginning to think someone out there WANTS the game to shut down. So they can repackage it and re- sell it again as a single player.

Edited December 9, 2016 by rheia

[AngFour]

 

After their recent communication, I am beginning to think someone out there WANTS the game to shut down. So they can repackage it and re- sell it again as a single player.

 

This comment has popped up a few times today (they might all be from you, I don't know) and every time I see it I think to myself, "I hope they do." Because, for me, the best part about this game is the story and when this game eventually dies (not being a doomsayer, but it will die eventually, we just don't know WHEN it will die) I'd still like to be able to roll up another Imperial Agent or whatever.

 

And the more I think about it, the more sense it makes. No new (substantial) Group Content? Huge focus on story? Making most of the game soloable? Yeah, I'm beginning to see it more and more.

 

OR, they might just be tanking it because they don't care anymore.

 

The optimist in me hopes for the former (at the very least- would rather the online version didn't die) but the cynic in me is thinking the latter.

[VirtualMorrigan]

Surprise Surprise, EA's number 1 armor polishing white knight. Just knew you would add your 2 cents.....

 

We are still missing at least three of the other rabid defenders in this thread. I'm almost disappointed.

[VirtualMorrigan]

Certainly they should listen to feedback, and all evidence suggests that they -are- listening to feedback. Just because you aren't getting the answers you want specifically, or the results are not occurring at a pleasing rate, doesn't mean they aren't listening. It just means you are perhaps being unreasonable.

 

Whenever you create something, whether it is art, CAD work, an essay, a novel, a garden, a meal, a video game... you have a vision, and you have a right to your vision. To suggest that game developers are arrogant fools for not developing their game based entirely around pet issues and the feedback of their players is nonsense, and to think this system is a personal vendetta against your "freedom" as a player is lunacy. This isn't a democracy and it never was and it never will be.

 

No, I think you fail to see that this is a product, not a work of art created for art's sake. It is intended to make profit by being worth the subscription fee to customers who play it. Nevertheless, Bioware has shown in previous games that they are prone to let the ego and "vision" of a few single people take over a game project, and when that vision fails to please the customers, turn around and blame the customers for not appreciating their genius. The very same thing is happening here, again. Excusing bad design with artistic vision is a rather pathetic cop-out.

 

You are right, though. This is not a democracy, it is a business. So, why do you feel the need to defend it as if it was a person?

[AscendingSky]

No, I think you fail to see that this is a product, not a work of art created for art's sake. It is intended to make profit by being worth the subscription fee to customers who play it. Nevertheless, Bioware has shown in previous games that they are prone to let the ego and "vision" of a few single people take over a game project, and when that vision fails to please the customers, turn around and blame the customers for not appreciating their genius. The very same thing is happening here, again. Excusing bad design with artistic vision is a rather pathetic cop-out.

 

*cough* Mass Effect 3 ending *coughcoughunconvincingcough*

[Quraswren]

*cough cough* Why should folks have to grind out anything to get back to clearing the exact same content that they have been clearing for the last 5 years?

 

That is just one more glaring flaw to add onto the current pile of flaws 5.0 has brought.

[Eshvara]

Within reason, I'd like to decide how I want to play the game myself. If that's grinding mobs in tatooine, I don't see how that's a problem.

What they seemed to be pushing before 5.0 released is that you could earn command points however you'd like to.

I guess they no longer entirely stand by that.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Eshvara

[VirtualMorrigan]

This comment has popped up a few times today (they might all be from you, I don't know) and every time I see it I think to myself, "I hope they do." Because, for me, the best part about this game is the story and when this game eventually dies (not being a doomsayer, but it will die eventually, we just don't know WHEN it will die) I'd still like to be able to roll up another Imperial Agent or whatever.

 

And the more I think about it, the more sense it makes. No new (substantial) Group Content? Huge focus on story? Making most of the game soloable? Yeah, I'm beginning to see it more and more.

 

OR, they might just be tanking it because they don't care anymore.

 

The optimist in me hopes for the former (at the very least- would rather the online version didn't die) but the cynic in me is thinking the latter.

 

I would love to have a standalone version of this, but I don't think it will ever happen. Who but hardcore fans would buy it? And rewriting it into a single player game would take quite some effort, I think, and require people who actually understood the code. Given what I see of the current crop of bugs with every patch, I would say there is no one there who fits that description.

[Vember]

True of course regarding nim operations. But, who I'm talking about are the rest of the population. They can very easily get back to what they were progging on right now. If the person in question likes to do flashpoints at either difficulty they can do that right now. Galactic command has almost no influence on their ability to play any of the content they may want. As an addition, I do think people are ignoring crafting as a legit means to lessen the RNG pain from the crates. Getting 228 mods enhancements, implants, ears, and relics is super easy to do. All they have to do is visit the crew skill trainer and craft a new 220 and reverse engineer it. Super easy to do. After all, people were talking about how they hit legendary on dvl, that means they have all crew skills at their disposal. So they might as well make use of them right? I know that's kinda rude, but there's a point there that I think people are willfully ignoring out of a lack of patience for gear. Maybe that's 4.0's fault. I don't know. All I know is that all the content is completely open to me because I chose to craft mods and enhancements, ears, implants, and relics (or just kept my old stuff).

 

I mean in reality I'd agree that a lot of content needs to see their command experience levels increased including heroics and chapters. But, overall, people still can definitely just play.

 

This is exactly why I fail to understand all the angst over this system.

[VirtualMorrigan]

*cough* Mass Effect 3 ending *coughcoughunconvincingcough*

 

That was what I was referring to, yes. And to a lesser degree, DragonAge 2.

[ekwalizer]

Just a question .

 

How is what they said any different than what I have heard other players say as well

 

"If you don't pvp, you are doing it wrong"

 

"If you don't do operations, you are doing it wrong."

 

I have heard those comments and more since the game was release from different players so what they said is nothing new to what I have heard since launch.

 

Other players didn't establish systems five years ago then change it last week and now tell us we are wrong for playing they was it was originally designed.

[ekwalizer]

True of course regarding nim operations. But, who I'm talking about are the rest of the population. They can very easily get back to what they were progging on right now. If the person in question likes to do flashpoints at either difficulty they can do that right now. Galactic command has almost no influence on their ability to play any of the content they may want. As an addition, I do think people are ignoring crafting as a legit means to lessen the RNG pain from the crates. Getting 228 mods enhancements, implants, ears, and relics is super easy to do. All they have to do is visit the crew skill trainer and craft a new 220 and reverse engineer it. Super easy to do. After all, people were talking about how they hit legendary on dvl, that means they have all crew skills at their disposal. So they might as well make use of them right? I know that's kinda rude, but there's a point there that I think people are willfully ignoring out of a lack of patience for gear. Maybe that's 4.0's fault. I don't know. All I know is that all the content is completely open to me because I chose to craft mods and enhancements, ears, implants, and relics (or just kept my old stuff).

 

I mean in reality I'd agree that a lot of content needs to see their command experience levels increased including heroics and chapters. But, overall, people still can definitely just play.

 

No one was really progging anything post-4.0. We just waited for EV/KP to hit the weekly. GC is a distraction, poorly veiled, to keep people from remembering that there hasn't been a new raid in two years.

 

They cranked out what 6 uprisings and then had the gall to say they didn't have the time or resources for 1 raid?

 

Schwarzchild, you always make good points, but I'm just done being lied to.

[raverbane]

lol when i heard that from Charles I really wanted to......... do stuff for which i would be banned from forums

 

Right there with ya!