Bioware, Your Game Isn't Fun Anymore.

[Costello]

I really wish people would stop using their example of great gear they got to justify the rng boxes.

 

Of the last 5 boxes I've opened everything has been disintegrated except for some gifts and that is only because they are only worth 10. You got lucky that is great for you not everyone is getting so luck despite putting in the same level of work. Thats how random boxes roll, I am sure in a couple of weeks the tables will have turned and you will be looking at junk in box after box.

 

Its like suggesting that gambling is great cause you won, its not so great if you are losing. In general the only people that win at Gambling are the Casinos' and this should be obvious cause if they weren't making money out of it they would quickly stop operating. The experience has to be looked at as a whole and and how if after you finally get to 181 (or whatever top tier rank starts) it takes you a week to get a crate and you end up with junk. Chances are to get there you will have played through the content 100 times already, the 101 and you get junk, and the 102 junk and the 103 junk. At what point does the hope or lure of getting purple to make the 104th play through a little bit easier seem to be a screwed up idea.

 

And then there is the kicker, if new content is gated behind tier 3 gear then you are requiring people to keep playing till they get the good gear or quit. Or if its not gated at all and 220 blue can do it then people with tier 3 will be at a loss as to why they bothered when 220 or 244 everything dies in one shot anyway or kills your companion in 2 shots if you play in master mode.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Costello

[AscendingSky]

I really wish people would stop using their example of great gear they got to justify the rng boxes.

 

Of the last 5 boxes I've opened everything has been disintegrated except for some gifts and that is only because they are only worth 10. You got lucky that is great for you not everyone is getting so luck despite putting in the same level of work. Thats how random boxes roll, I am sure in a couple of weeks the tables will have turned and you will be looking at junk in box after box.

 

Its like suggesting that gambling is great cause you won, its not so great if you are losing. In general the only people that win at Gambling are the Casinos' and this should be obvious cause if they weren't making money out of it they would quickly stop operating. The experience has to be looked at as a whole and and how if after you finally get to 181 (or whatever top tier rank starts) it takes you a week to get a crate and you end up with junk. Chances are to get there you will have played through the content 100 times already, the 101 and you get junk, and the 102 junk and the 103 junk. At what point does the hope or lure of getting purple to make the 104th play through a little bit easier seem to be a screwed up idea.

 

And then there is the kicker, if new content is gated behind tier 3 gear then you are requiring people to keep playing till they get the good gear or quit. Or if its not gated at all and 220 blue can do it then people with tier 3 will be at a loss as to why they bothered when 220 or 244 everything dies in one shot anyway or kills your companion in 2 shots if you play in master mode.

 

Here here! It's like someone who won the lottery telling everyone else who lost at said lottery that they just didn't try hard enough. Because that's all this is--A LOTTERY! Skill, difficulty of content, the amount of time you put into the game, how well you know your class... none of it matters anymore. You can go into Warzones and literally do next to nothing and get CXP to earn your crates. And then when you DO earn a crate, it's a roll of the kriffing die, and 95% of the time you get nothing to show for it.

 

How would those people like working a job where they're told the amount they get paid will be randomly determined every week, and 95% of the time they will be paid nothing? And then have the company they work for come in and say they have to go to 12 hour shifts to get paid at all? Would they like those lucky 5% of people who actually got paid for their work to come rub it in their faces and tell them to quit complaining about the fact they can't pay their bills now?

 

Is playing TOR a job? No. But thanks to the Command level system, the amount of hours I would have to put in to get ANYTHING approaching useful at this rate would turn it into like taking a second job, for a 95% chance of not being paid. No thanks.

Edited December 4, 2016 by AscendingSky

[arkaniel]

Since a "long time subscriber' has said that the game no longer has anything for us, here's my two cents.

 

I think it's great, and for the record I've been subscribed non-stop since pre-launch (minus about a week total but not consecutive)

 

As for the new gear...

 

The old way: Do a lot of OPS to get tokens to buy gear and for your main hand you have to compete vs. other players IF your particular class's item even drops in the first place.

 

The new way: Do whatever you want, earn command xp, get boxes that give you the gear directly based on an RNG, sure.. but you are competing only against the system, not other players. Really, it's the same thing that WoW has started doing... Personal Loot. SWtOR just took it a step further and lets you earn it via ANY activity, instead of just the top tier content.

 

Hell, I just for the first time made a Zabrak character at level 1 and I am going to play her through. Why? Because I've never played a zabrak and because I find the game fun.

 

Personal loot in WoW or i n other games like LOTRO comes from drops in instances, according your level and class, not from an stupid galactic command level thats have you grinding everthing on the game to get nothing usefull after a waste of time. Galactic command is a Galactic Error.

[omaan]

I just want to give my thoughts on the 5.0 expansion.

 

It's not fun.

 

Lets start a few months back.....

Bioware creates an event, DvL, that encourages us to create lots of alts and play them to an advanced level. And to also encourage us to complete lots of different kinds of content within the game. Cool. I'm ok with that.

 

I have been here since launch and had not completed some of that content. So, I create 9 new characters and completed the Legendary achievement for the event. It was a long haul through a lot of stuff I had already done and some I had not. I created toons in new rolls, such as healing, that I had not played before in order to break up the monotony. Much to my surprise, I enjoyed DvL.

 

Now comes 5.0. It's not fun.

 

First, Bioware takes away my achievement for the DvL event. A lot of time and effort feels wiped away. That's not nice.

 

With Galactic Command System, playing any of my alts (that Bioware encouraged me to make) feels punitive. Punitive for me, my guild team members, and for pvp teammates. That's not fun.

 

The RNG gear boxes feel punitive as well. In fact, I believe the new gearing system is the WORST part of the expansion. It's not fun.

 

Grinding away at GCXP is horrible. I don't know anyone who plays a game and says "wow, grinding all that crap was fun!". You know why? Because GRINDING IS NOT FUN.

 

On top of that, they ask me to run the same content, yet again, for rewards and GCXP. That content was fun a few years ago. Now? They're not fun.

 

Oh yeah, the new DvL systems is dumb. After doing the original DvL and seeing Light Side win very easily, what made Bioware think the new DvL system would be any different? Watching Light Side win over and over and over and over................ is not fun.

 

So my question is, if Bioware is in the game business, why would they create a game expansion that is NOT FUN? If you actually read this post, the title should have you very concerned. People don't play, nor pay, for games that are not fun.

 

You know whats less fun than playing SWTOR 5.0? ................ Paying for it.

 

I really hope changes are made to the entire system. I have removed my payment info from my recurring sub. For now, I can't bring myself to play. It's just not fun.

 

 

TLDR - This just isn't fun.

 

Good luck and happy gaming.

 

When they made cxp not legacy wide they made themselves a death sentence. Why? Because no normal human will play SAME OLD CONTENT for SAME CLASS again and again... For example i already tired of my sent and want to play my scoundrel BUT LOL I CANT because i know that if i switch ill be on 0 lvl and will receive green weak gear again... so if bw wont make cxp legacy wide everyone will leave very soon..

[arkaniel]

When they made cxp not legacy wide they made themselves a death sentence. Why? Because no normal human will play SAME OLD CONTENT for SAME CLASS again and again... For example i already tired of my sent and want to play my scoundrel BUT LOL I CANT because i know that if i switch ill be on 0 lvl and will receive green weak gear again... so if bw wont make cxp legacy wide everyone will leave very soon..

 

+1.000.000 to this

[Kingsbount]

I don't have a lot of time to play so as many other people.

We have a full time job. We have a families.

We don't have time to endless grind.

We DON'T need another job.

 

If Biofail wants to **** me with my own money - i will cut money off them.

 

Un-subbed.

[arkaniel]

That's your opinion and it is totally valid. I feel sorry that you are no longer enjoying the game. It does feel to me like the newest expansions are pretty much solo content. Anyone here for the MMO part of this MMORPG is suffering and that sucks for you guys, seriously it does.

 

For someone like me though it's still wonderful. I'm still enjoying the game immensely. To me this game is an RPG first and an MMO second, that's how it was always intended to be. You're fooling yourself if you believe Bioware would have done anything else. Story comes first to them and a solo experience has always been at the forefront of their games. Before launch, during beta, and reading about this game I knew that wasn't going to change and they pressed that in interviews and everything. They said, it would be different from every other MMO out there, that story was the focus, and that it was going to be a Bioware game through and through. That's why I pre-ordered and subbed.

 

I don't like Mmos, they aren't my thing. When they tried too hard to get more into the MMO feel it bothered me. When I could no longer afford to sub (I had a kid, that takes precedence) I left. I came back for the story though and it's been wonderful since. Sure, I enjoy doing things with my guilds and I've met some cool people but if they announced tomorrow that they were going to turn the game into a single player experience and remove all the group content, that they were going to sell it as a normal single player game instead of a subscription based MMO I'd be perfectly happy with that.

 

Your ways aren't everyone's ways, that's what I'm saying. There are gamers who are happy and gamers who are miserable with the changes. Making blanket statements and saying that it's not fun anymore is just plain wrong. It's not fun anymore FOR YOU. Not for me, not for countless others who are enjoying the story and log in every day.

 

I do sincerely hope that they start adding more group content for you though and make additions to the game that will be fun for you and players like you. Even content I won't do because in the end I want everyone to have fun as long as they aren't detracting from the fun of others. If people like you get more content and stay this game survives longer and I'm all for that.

 

That´s not the problem... the problem is... really need a subscription to enjoy the game with that terrible system? Really? The answer is NO. Swtor have become a "F2P" farming game like tons of mmo´s that are free. This game is a bussines, supported by subs. Deal with it Bioware.

 

P.D. The story is great. Again you make de best and the worse.

[rheia]

Little trivia, back in 1.x the operation loot was assigned randomly to random persons based on their base class. in pvp we had bags with a random chance at the gear too.

 

They got rid of that system. RNG sucked then. it sucks now. Whomever thought up this bright idea to reintroduce the system they SCRAPPED a very long time ago is an idiot and a moron. Or a group of idiots and morons.

Edited December 4, 2016 by rheia

[Snowred]

I don't have a lot of time to play so as many other people.

We have a full time job. We have a families.

We don't have time to endless grind.

We DON'T need another job.

<snipped>

.

 

This is pretty much how I'm feeling.

As someone mentioned in this thread the game does have an identity crisis first they facilitate solo play - great for casuals and they encourage creating alts and playing them to max level - DvL event. I think someone confused fun with something else.

 

Then they pull the rug and make the game both solo and alt unfriendly at once.

 

Not *fun* enough so lets add RNG loot and make every one of those alts do all that old stuff endlessly too!

 

Bad enough but then they force a *fun* playstyle First PVP - PVP gives the best CXP return for time investment. OPs 2nd best CXP and anyone who does PUGs knows how much *fun* this is. Uprisings the same but with the added bonuses ppl are too good to die leave after one wipe and you could have a really *fun* filled experience with the grouping by getting 4 DPS. Lets give nothing much for heroics after all don't want anyone having *fun* on their own share the misery! Heroics are already limited as weeklies so why the need nerf the CXP on them other than to remove them as a progress route.

 

Crafting lets add a bit of *fun* to that neglected area of the game by putting schematics and mats in OPs.

 

Job done! Fun game complete now lets make the schmucks pay for that whole mess and we've bought ourselves another couple of years where we can work on better facial expressions or some other daft idea!

[Neshira]

I don't have a lot of time to play so as many other people.

We have a full time job. We have a families.

We don't have time to endless grind.

We DON'T need another job.

 

If Biofail wants to **** me with my own money - i will cut money off them.

 

Un-subbed.

 

That's actually why I like this system a bit though. Previously in order to get decent gear I would have had to do FPs, Ops, Etc constantly. These are things that I enjoy a little but not a lot. Primarily I'm a story gamer, not an Ops type. To do those ops, fps, etc you NEED the good gear that you can only get from doing them.

 

Now I can get command pts and crates just by playing the content I like, as can others. I think the rewards need to be legacy-wide and increased, I think instead of RNG it needs to be at least guaranteed something but the way it's earned is nice for me.

[Wayshuba]

That´s not the problem... the problem is... really need a subscription to enjoy the game with that terrible system? Really? The answer is NO. Swtor have become a "F2P" farming game like tons of mmo´s that are free. This game is a bussines, supported by subs. Deal with it Bioware.

 

P.D. The story is great. Again you make de best and the worse.

 

I know huh? Sub and you get a terrible system that makes Asian MMOs look pale in comparison (and with the Asian MMOs at least you get mindless grind for FREE). Don't sub and you won't be able to access the grind. Hmmmm.... which to do.

[TheKilltech]

That's actually why I like this system a bit though. Previously in order to get decent gear I would have had to do FPs, Ops, Etc constantly. These are things that I enjoy a little but not a lot. Primarily I'm a story gamer, not an Ops type. To do those ops, fps, etc you NEED the good gear that you can only get from doing them.

 

Now I can get command pts and crates just by playing the content I like, as can others. I think the rewards need to be legacy-wide and increased, I think instead of RNG it needs to be at least guaranteed something but the way it's earned is nice for me.

yeah, i pretty much share your thoughts. i think it is a good change for players like us but for the grind-treadmill addicts it will take time to get sober from the pointless mindset of maxing their gear as fast as possible.

 

as for the CXP being character bound rather then to legecy it's indeed a bit weird choice. the progress made on other chars should at very least boost your leveling speed for newly created ones or something. but hey, this is the first iteration so we can be sure it'll change over future patches one way or another.

Edited December 4, 2016 by TheKilltech

[KyaniteD]

Your response just backs up the point that this game is having an identity crisis.

[...]

That's what single player games are for. :/

 

Yeah, they should once and for all decide what they want SWTOR to be and stick to it. Make it a single player RPG with all the options for story content and mechanics involved (e.g. choices with radical consequences for the game world), or an MMORPG with all the features and mechanics associated with the genre. The hybrid thing they're trying to do by crippling both aspects satisfies neither side.

[Voemel]

When they made cxp not legacy wide they made themselves a death sentence. Why? Because no normal human will play SAME OLD CONTENT for SAME CLASS again and again... For example i already tired of my sent and want to play my scoundrel BUT LOL I CANT because i know that if i switch ill be on 0 lvl and will receive green weak gear again... so if bw wont make cxp legacy wide everyone will leave very soon..

 

I think it would be a HUGE MISTAKE to continue with RNG gear drops. That system is horrible and there is clearly a consensus of thought on it.

 

The gear token system needs to return. They can tweak it or incorporate it into GC somehow, but the RNG has to go.

 

I am sure Bioware will react to all the negative feedback in some way. But Legacy RNG is still RNG. And that's just not acceptable. Letting them scrape by with less crappy is still crappy.

 

Good luck and happy gaming.

[CorellianWannabe]

That's actually why I like this system a bit though. Previously in order to get decent gear I would have had to do FPs, Ops, Etc constantly. These are things that I enjoy a little but not a lot. Primarily I'm a story gamer, not an Ops type. To do those ops, fps, etc you NEED the good gear that you can only get from doing them.

 

Now I can get command pts and crates just by playing the content I like, as can others. I think the rewards need to be legacy-wide and increased, I think instead of RNG it needs to be at least guaranteed something but the way it's earned is nice for me.

 

In the past you could have run heroics for crystals to get gear (or warzones for a welfare set if you wanted the set bnous). It wasn't perfect but it wasn't a lottery. I never got anything from flashpoints but I didn't run the hard modes often either (and will never run operations).

 

As people have said so often, if you only play the story why bother with the grind at all? I got through Eternal Cutscenes without upgrading one piece of gear, and pvp has bolster so gear isn't needed there either (maybe in ranked, I don't know). Crafting is pretty cheap if a bit time-consuming, and can provide 228 gear (almost as good as the 230 mods you may or may not ever get enough of).

[ShieldProtection]

I just want to give my thoughts on the 5.0 expansion.

 

It's not fun.

 

Lets start a few months back.....

Bioware creates an event, DvL, that encourages us to create lots of alts and play them to an advanced level. And to also encourage us to complete lots of different kinds of content within the game. Cool. I'm ok with that.

 

I have been here since launch and had not completed some of that content. So, I create 9 new characters and completed the Legendary achievement for the event. It was a long haul through a lot of stuff I had already done and some I had not. I created toons in new rolls, such as healing, that I had not played before in order to break up the monotony. Much to my surprise, I enjoyed DvL.

 

Now comes 5.0. It's not fun.

 

First, Bioware takes away my achievement for the DvL event. A lot of time and effort feels wiped away. That's not nice.

 

With Galactic Command System, playing any of my alts (that Bioware encouraged me to make) feels punitive. Punitive for me, my guild team members, and for pvp teammates. That's not fun.

 

The RNG gear boxes feel punitive as well. In fact, I believe the new gearing system is the WORST part of the expansion. It's not fun.

 

Grinding away at GCXP is horrible. I don't know anyone who plays a game and says "wow, grinding all that crap was fun!". You know why? Because GRINDING IS NOT FUN.

 

On top of that, they ask me to run the same content, yet again, for rewards and GCXP. That content was fun a few years ago. Now? They're not fun.

 

Oh yeah, the new DvL systems is dumb. After doing the original DvL and seeing Light Side win very easily, what made Bioware think the new DvL system would be any different? Watching Light Side win over and over and over and over................ is not fun.

 

So my question is, if Bioware is in the game business, why would they create a game expansion that is NOT FUN? If you actually read this post, the title should have you very concerned. People don't play, nor pay, for games that are not fun.

 

You know whats less fun than playing SWTOR 5.0? ................ Paying for it.

 

I really hope changes are made to the entire system. I have removed my payment info from my recurring sub. For now, I can't bring myself to play. It's just not fun.

 

 

TLDR - This just isn't fun.

 

Good luck and happy gaming.

 

Don't worry, you will come back in a few short weeks.

 

In meantime, can I haz your stuff?

[dirtykid]

I also hate this new system. I am subbed for the next 3 months because my renewal was 3 days before launch, doubt it will continue beyond. I am deliberately not spending my with sub CM creds right now either.

 

the new content was nice, but done in a day and maybe I will run once more to see if I can't kill Koth with a DS toon.... and if I can, I hope I can draw that out into 4 hours of awesome cutscenes.

 

I do like not changing gear between PVP and PVE content... or not forgetting to change gear, but

 

this is where my LIKE of anything ends.

 

The fact that PVP relies heavily on VALOR rank after making me run 8 brand new toons for a DvL acheivement WHICH I NO LONGER EVEN HAVE!!!! I deleted 8 toons to create those because 16 toons is already more than I want to keep track of. now they are not DvL toons, they appear to be regular toons that I rushed through in a couple of months and have little connection to and less memory of even what crew skills they possess. and all for a we zeroed your stuff, and there is no distiction of these NEW toons from the old ones BECAUSE WE MIGHT WANT YOU TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN. What?!!! hell no. fool me once shame on me...

 

I like running OPS, but that is getting more out of reach as RNG drops the same belt 4 times in a row... Admittedly, I've only gained 4 levels CXP with one toon thus far, but my gear has barely changed... I ran stuff where nothign dropped from mobs then got greens worse than my 216's that I was already wearing. one piece dropped in 4 level that I switched to... not interested in that grind, thanks.

Edited December 5, 2016 by dirtykid

[SaerethDL]

I think bioware made a great decision, I like the game now more than ever... finally being able to be rewarded for your hard work and time invested.. that being said it would be cool if they gave us some kind of subscriber reward every month or every other month like a rare mount, cool color crystal, gear, companions, all kinds of stuff.

[Neshira]

In the past you could have run heroics for crystals to get gear (or warzones for a welfare set if you wanted the set bnous). It wasn't perfect but it wasn't a lottery. I never got anything from flashpoints but I didn't run the hard modes often either (and will never run operations).

 

As people have said so often, if you only play the story why bother with the grind at all? I got through Eternal Cutscenes without upgrading one piece of gear, and pvp has bolster so gear isn't needed there either (maybe in ranked, I don't know). Crafting is pretty cheap if a bit time-consuming, and can provide 228 gear (almost as good as the 230 mods you may or may not ever get enough of).

 

I've gotten a full set of 230 gear just by doing heroics from the command window and I'm only rank 6. Just doing 2 ops last night with my guild + 3 heroics today + working on KOTET has gotten me geared up. I bother with a little of the grind because if I want to run something with my guild I don't want to be SEVERELY undergeared.

[keimox]

I think bioware made a great decision, I like the game now more than ever... finally being able to be rewarded for your hard work and time invested.. that being said it would be cool if they gave us some kind of subscriber reward every month or every other month like a rare mount, cool color crystal, gear, companions, all kinds of stuff.

 

Howabout you work for those cool and rare mounts like the rest of players. They are not rare or cool if they are handed out as sub reward.

[MaximusRex]

Here...

 

I found this little known game that still does everything right:

 

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/

 

Not according to the users on their forums.

[ekwalizer]

+1 to the OP.

 

I was an altaholic long before Bioware incentivized it with 12X Story. I have in the ballpark for 40 toons between 60-70.

 

Based on the GC system, I doubt I'll ever play more than 4 of them ever again. There is just no reason to. The grind isn't worth it.

 

Replayability on this game started going downhill with RotHC. It got worse with SOR. It was gone completely with FE and ET has simply doubled down on that.

 

The Studio encourages us to farm alts to distract us from a lack of new Multiplayer content between expansions and then drops expansion after expansion with still no new "MMO" content. This is not a singleplayer game. And a lot of y'all fanbois are lying to yourself about how good the "story" has ever been in this game.

[Wintermutes]

I honestly don't think Bioware understands the essence of what makes a game a game. They seem so focused on randomness, linear grinding, and a narrative that they've lost the core of any engrossing game: meaningful decisions.

 

Without meaningful choices, it's not a game. I'm not talking about choices in the story, either. The story was fine this time around.

 

What isn't fine is everything else. Doing a slow, linear grind for gear is boring. A slow, linear grind that's also based on RNG is infinitely worse, because there's no interaction, no choices, no options, it's just "play the game, get an occasional box, open the box to find disappointment inside, rinse/repeat."

 

On top of that, the execution is what I'd expect from a 5 year old. The CXP rewards are pathetic. Do a heroic, get 20 CXP. Great, if I do 100 of them (about 5 weeks for me, because I don't enjoy doing more than 3-4 a day at most) I'll gain a Command level. It honestly feels like all the rewards are missing a decimal place. Even at 10x the current rate, the loot rate wouldn't be great, again because there's so much RNG.

 

If you're going to have a grindy, RNG based system, then loot needs to rain from the sky, and loot needs to be interesting. Your game has neither.

 

The exciting new group content (Uprisings) is like a Flashpoint for people who think Story Mode flashpoints are too hard to understand.

 

The game is chock full of bugs. My pre order reward Shae Vizla is bugged. My video is bugged. Even the stuff they simplified is something MORE complicated, like the top menu bar.

 

The bottom line is it's just not interesting or fun. There's not much to do, and the stuff I can do isn't worth repeating on a different character. It's barely worth doing once on my main character. I was enjoying the game in 4.0 in spite of all the bad decisions that were made. 5.0, I enjoyed the story, and now that it's done, I see no reason to keep playing.

[Voemel]

The bottom line is it's just not interesting or fun. There's not much to do, and the stuff I can do isn't worth repeating on a different character. It's barely worth doing once on my main character. I was enjoying the game in 4.0 in spite of all the bad decisions that were made. 5.0, I enjoyed the story, and now that it's done, I see no reason to keep playing.

 

I agree completely.

 

God, I hope they address this today. Give us some sort of hope.

[Vember]

It all seems the same to me, vis a vis rolling against other players vs. rolling against nothing. It's still RNG.

 

This ^^

 

Really don't understand all the angst. But I do enjoy seeing the same people post their "already cancelled" crap just like they did after 3.0...and 4.0...and so on.