Command lvl 10 and I'm already sick of it.

[Tsillah]

I was using Diablo as an example because the system in spirit is similar. A fair number of people are complaining that they have to grind out a ton now to get to lvl300, and my argument is that you're really not supposed to grind it out like that. It's not the point.

 

No, as for other issues with the system, those complains may or may not be valid.

 

Well I disagree that it's even similar in spirit especially because the Paragon system gives bonuses for all your characters, even new level 1. So it's more of a legacy system than an individual gearing system.

 

Also the rewards are fixed and you can choose what you want to get. It's not RNG at all.

 

And I also do not believe that you're not supposed to grind it out because after level 300, you can still gain levels that don't actually add a real level but do give you gearboxes so the eternal grind only starts at level 300.

 

So no, I do not agree with you at all that it's similar in spirit even.

[Setta]

. . . you guys do understand that this system is meant to not be something you max out right? It's like the paragon system in Diablo, the higher you go the better it gets, but you're not expected to actually 100% cap.

 

Why is there always one? I swear to god.... Remember to come up for air every now and again.

 

1) Paragon in Diablo does not equal gear. Command level in this does.

 

2) Paragon levels are account wide . Command levels are not.

 

3) Paragons give you a few extra stats per level, and has nothing to do with gear itself. A high paragon only gives you the ability to push the end limits of Greater Rifts. This on the other hand has everything to do with gear, and with out gear your holding back a group from doing the more difficult content.

 

4) When I grind paragons even if no other loot upgrades drop (which at that point you're basically maxed out anyways so it doesn't really drop) I still feel I've accomplished something by gaining those paragon levels. They offer some sort of a reward for the time invested. This on the other hand, after a few ops, some uprisings, and flash points has so far offered me nothing. My time was a complete waste. All I did was make it more difficult for me to get the next command level.

 

5) Despite the fact that you're comparing apples to pineapples, (arpg to mmo) and thus the whole thing should of been a moot point from the get go. Everything you said is so wrong, it's pretty much unfathomable how you've come to this conclusion in the first place. I mean did you even bother to read what you wrote, or do you have your head so far up Bioware's behind that really it doesn't matter to you, as long as you defend your golden boy. FFS.....

[Halinalle]

PS. Also, DPS guarding in pvp. Seriously?

 

Try to tank in pve when dps has Guard on you.

 

Paragon levels are account wide

 

They are account wide while limited to specific characters

- Normal characters have their own Paragon and stash

- Hardcore characters have their own Paragon and stash

- Seasonal characters have their own Paragon and stash, at the end of season these will be transfered to Normal.

- Seasonal hardcore characters have their own Paragon and stash, at the end of season these will be transfered to Hardcore.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Halinalle

[yaxmutal]

300 hours is a lot. 300 HOURS PER CHARACTER?????????????????

 

For the love of your game make it legacy wide.

 

I am not quitting forever, I plan to be back, but in the meantime I am looking for another game. Any suggestions?

[Deaconik]

Posted this in the PvP section but I might as well post it here too:

 

To reach maximum Command Rank 300 you need 1.230000 CXP.

 

You'll get approximatelly 500-600 CXP from one regular warzone.

 

1230000 / 600 = 2050 warzones

 

Let's say the average reg warzone takes about 10minutes to complete. In one hour you'll get 6 warzones done and dusted.

 

If you play 8 hours every day for a month you'll have about 1344 regular warzones completed.

 

Remember that there are other acitivities such as raids and ranked that rewards you with more CXP to speed up the process.

 

That's actually not true. Right now if we ignore endless grind of golden/champion mobs the best way to earn points is PvP. Raiding is way worse.

[Beakertanks]

As title says.

 

This is going to be a long *********** grind for one character, not to mention the rest of my alts.

 

Unless something changes I doub I'll stick around, anyone else feel the same?

 

PS. Also, DPS guarding in pvp. Seriously?

 

Yeah. This. Sigh. Such a colossally stupid decision on their part.

[Kurfer]

There is NO excuse for making this intense grind for content we have been doing for over a year.

 

Seriously, I had the top gear last expansion so what's the point of getting the top gear to do all the same **** I did the previous expansion? Seriously, it makes zero sense. Just saying that out loud in a meeting room should have gotten someone fired. It's just a garbage system...

 

I appreciate the story but there is really no reason to continue.

[EightiesMonkey]

I agree that this is not the best system in the world.

 

But I take the stance that in theory it was not much different from what we already had (Yeah I know it is to some).

 

I never really grinded the FPs and OPs so was never in the top gear but I know people who were. Now we can't buy gear with comms/crystals (whatever you want to call them) it's harder yes. But if you take that out and think about it as if we never had that ability.

 

Mob gear in general exploring and group content was randomly picked. Loots from bosses was randomly picked, the gearing crates added in KOTFE were randomly picked. Times when I played Flashpoints with others and got gears drop for a class that wasn't in the group was high. Yeah they did make the drops more appropriate eventually. But in my experience they still seemed random, only difference now between that and the older systems is that its now in magic boxes.

 

It could have been handled a while lot better and I agree that the endless grind is a complete pain in the ***, but it is what it is. We can either try and make the best of it and hope Bioware take notice and implement improvements to it or just stop.

 

I'm all for making it Legacy Wide as to me that makes so much more sense. In fact I would go so far as to say that's how it should have been done from the start.

 

But I expect to be trolled for what I have written above, but as I have said and for clarification, I did not grind endgame content and I do warn everyone about my views in my forum signature

Edited December 1, 2016 by EightiesMonkey
Spellcheck

[Kromme]

I was using Diablo as an example because the system in spirit is similar. A fair number of people are complaining that they have to grind out a ton now to get to lvl300, and my argument is that you're really not supposed to grind it out like that. It's not the point.

 

No, as for other issues with the system, those complains may or may not be valid.

 

No, Sir, you are missing the point..not only is it a monumental time sink with no guarantee whatsoever any reward, it is also a seriously monotonous and tedious insult to have to grind the exact same content that most of us have been grinding for the last 5 years. Further, the debacle has shackled players into no longer having the required gear to grind thru the nightmare content that they have already been clearing for the past 2 year, with, and again, no guarantee that they will ever again be able to run the same content. In essence destroying the time and financial investment that the loyal fan base has graciously afforded this company with. My recommendation to you, and to any other "white knight" wishing to champion the EA/Bioware crusade is to start reading and understanding that there is more at stake here than just opinions being rehashed upon the forums, and the consequences will effect everyone...

[Eli_Porter]

Need to buff command xp big time. PVE should be in line with pvp in terms of how fast you get command xp. You can get 500-600 xp from a warzone which could last only 5-10 minutes. Doing FP takes 20-30 min, doing uprisings takes 15-20 minutes and that is without wiping, afks or whatever and you only get 400 from storymode uprisings for something which you could be doing 3 warzones and get 4 times as much xp.

 

No crafting component drops from warzones, so it works out alright.

[Celise]

You do know that someone did the maths on it, and one character to level 300 command rank would take over a year. And that was with constant queue pops and massive amounts of play time every single day. This whole system is one giant dev troll on us.

 

if this is true then i got 26 years of grinding to do... hell no!

i already made my mind up about the GC, that it isn't something i am concerned with any more.

[AscendingSky]

I'm still not a fan of RNG, but the reality is that we were spoiled with gear in KOTFE. No one should be able to get a full BiS set in a week, it ruins progression and leaves people with nothing to do once they finish the expansion's content (literally what happened with KOTFE). And yet we have people up in arms on the forums because they're GC Rank 20 and don't have a full set of armor yet....after the first day of playing.

 

Because gear is completely random, some people may NEVER get a full set of drops, even if they do grind all the way to Command Level 300. Theoretically, some people could NEVER get ANY worthwhile gear drop. That's the problem. Each Command crate is a one shot deal. You can't go back and redo that Command level--each one you pass makes it take even LONGER to get the next crate to potentially get NOTHING AGAIN!

 

This is the least fair system possible. EAWare has screwed us over in the biggest possible way since launch.

Edited December 1, 2016 by AscendingSky

[americanaussie]

Because gear is completely random, some people may NEVER get a full set of drops, even if they do grind all the way to Command Level 300. Theoretically, some people could NEVER get ANY worthwhile gear drop. That's the problem. Each Command crate is a one shot deal. You can't go back and redo that Command level--each one you pass makes it take even LONGER to get the next crate to potentially get NOTHING AGAIN!

 

This is the least fair system possible. EAWare has screwed us over in the biggest possible way since launch.

 

They said you should and if you don't because you are EXTREMELY UNLUCKY to contact them and they'll give you an out.

[AscendingSky]

Mob gear in general exploring and group content was randomly picked. Loots from bosses was randomly picked, the gearing crates added in KOTFE were randomly picked. Times when I played Flashpoints with others and got gears drop for a class that wasn't in the group was high. Yeah they did make the drops more appropriate eventually. But in my experience they still seemed random, only difference now between that and the older systems is that its now in magic boxes.

 

Apparently you didn't understand the old system at all, if you seriously think the new system is anything like it.

 

If you did a flashpoint, you knew a particular quality of gear would drop from each boss, depending on the difficulty level. It might not be what you needed, but SOMETHING would be there. With crates there is ZERO guarantee you will get ANYTHING, and completing each Command level means it's an even longer grind to reach the next level!

 

If you did an operation, you knew that X boss would drop Y gear token, PERIOD. You might not win the roll to get that token that time around, but you could always go back and do it again, and the operation would not get incrementally harder and longer to complete every time you redid it to try to get that gear. There was a guaranteed payoff.

 

Now we have no guarantees, no payoff for effort and skill, NOTHING. Some people may NEVER get set bonus gear, because each crate is random and can contain absolutely nothing worthwhile every single time.

[Kcin_Trebla]

You do know that someone did the maths on it, and one character to level 300 command rank would take over a year. And that was with constant queue pops and massive amounts of play time every single day. This whole system is one giant dev troll on us.

 

Yeah... another sad thing.

Now let me calculate how much time I need for getting 300...

-inputting data---

well... like the majority of people I have a family, a job that lets me (among other things) to pay the SWTOR subscription, I have hobbies and a social life too and I'm not one of the "lucky" guys who can sit still in front of their cpu-machines more then 2 hours per day at best... so...

-calculating-calculating-calculating---

well... the answer is: it's better I don't even care about it. (means all the efforts done by the Devs for this thing is wasted time for them and wasted money for me)

Mah...

[AscendingSky]

They said you should and if you don't because you are EXTREMELY UNLUCKY to contact them and they'll give you an out.

 

There is no 'luck'. There is just odds, and a random number generator in the game that determines what you get from each crate. Every box has the same odds. It's a fallacy to think if you've opened a lot of boxes and gotten nothing out of them so far, that you have a higher chance of getting 'lucky' next time. Everyone has the same odds of getting nothing.

 

Wouldn't it just be better to have a FAIR system where actual EFFORT was rewarded to begin with, rather than every person who fails to ever complete a set or even get anything worthwhile (and from the odds I'm seeing, it's going to be a lot of people) having to contact support to kick up a fuss just to try to get SOMETHING?!

[LastBrood]

Like posters said before me,I hope they tweak the points gain from PvE content, PvP give so much better and its pretty quick.

[Halinalle]

PvP give so much better and its pretty quick.

 

Really? I still remember few angry "warzones only 20 CXP!?" posts.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Halinalle

[auroreborealis]

Honestly it's really not that bad. Before you call me a Biodrone or whatever feel free to check out the nasty posts on here and reddit I made towards GC pre-5.0. I wasn't a fan at all, but it's not as terrible as I thought.

 

I'm still not a fan of RNG, but the reality is that we were spoiled with gear in KOTFE. No one should be able to get a full BiS set in a week, it ruins progression and leaves people with nothing to do once they finish the expansion's content (literally what happened with KOTFE). And yet we have people up in arms on the forums because they're GC Rank 20 and don't have a full set of armor yet....after the first day of playing.

 

Again, I'm not a huge fan of RNG...but it's really not as bad as everyone says it is. I'm actually really enjoying getting jawa scrap, companion gifts, and adaptive gear with each crate as well. This is coming from someone who loathed the idea of Galactic Command before I tried it out.

 

Nothing to do? Are you serious? Normally, people gear up not just to have that high level gear to kill droids on Tython, but to be able to do progression.

You say no one should be able to get BiS gear in week. Why? If people have skills and know what to do, why not? If they were able to do that, it only shows their level. If someone was not able to get that... maybe did not deserve, because if not able to obtain it, for what use stuffs that created for hardest content?

 

Yes, it was like 1 week to get full 216 and one month max for full 220-224 in KotFE, and?

After that people were able to do something more serious than SM OPS or EV/KP HM. Now, to be ready to try those NiMs to progress, people must spend literally months to get decent gear. Not everyone has possibility and wish to grind 8 hours or more every single day. Also. no possibility to gear up returning players quick, what reduces amount of people who can join hard content. No more quick swapping roles, because to gear up even ONE toon for NiMs will be a pain. It will be a proble to find people even for 8m phase, not even thinking about 16. Huge amount of raiders quit after those news about GC was announced. Basically, people can rerurn to same level of gear to contimue their progress only after long months. You think, they will stay for so long?

 

OPS token system was optimal. Now we got something, what requires endless brainless grinding, and, most important. such a horrible RNG, that even after a year of grinding there will be a chence you will never get an item you need. Thanks.

 

So, I agree with author of this topic. Not participating in this grind fest. Not countinuing my sub. Very sad about some months that I pre-paided. It does not worth nor time, nor money.

[Dreadonis]

There is NO excuse for making this intense grind for content we have been doing for over a year.

 

Seriously, I had the top gear last expansion so what's the point of getting the top gear to do all the same **** I did the previous expansion? Seriously, it makes zero sense. Just saying that out loud in a meeting room should have gotten someone fired. It's just a garbage system...

 

I appreciate the story but there is really no reason to continue.

 

The story was good, but the CXP loot system is a game breaker. I unsubbed last night.

[CorellianWannabe]

They said you should and if you don't because you are EXTREMELY UNLUCKY to contact them and they'll give you an out.

 

So after a year or more of playing (and paying) they will give players gear? How big of them.

[ManyFaces]

I'm both relieved and saddened by this thread. Relieved because I'm not off my rocker in terms of what I was seeing for time & investment (which equaled a fair bit of dismay) after the 5.0 expansion. Saddened because - well because of the time and investment etc. I had hoped my math/conclusions were wrong but it seems they are not. The devs seem to place the faith on people wanting to 'win the lottery' and keep hoping for that 'cherry high'. Not for me at this level of time sink.

 

I played L2 when it first opened for almost 4 years. Grind? Ugh. The worst. Now SWTOR has done something similar. With all my alts looming in the background waiting for the same, added to the sadness of no returning old comps, I truly feel kicked in the teeth.

 

Having played SWTOR since opening day (beta technically) I didn't mind subbing for 3 months at a time. ATM I'm smack dab in the middle of my sub with 46 days left. I sadly made the decision to unsub and just did so.

 

I'll keep an eye on the game announcements. If they modify some of the RNG horror and or change the CXP gains to be a bit more reasonable to the day to day player with a life, I'll consider returning. I'll even resub if things really have been mitigated. In the meantime I'm doing the only thing a paying customer can. Offering a reasonable complaint without rant & rave and then removing my money (future monies to be specific) from their coffers. If enough people do - perhaps they will listen. The almighty buck is the ONLY leverage a consumer has - sad as it is.

 

Stay well all.

Edited December 1, 2016 by ManyFaces

[CorellianWannabe]

I agree that this is not the best system in the world.

 

But I take the stance that in theory it was not much different from what we already had (Yeah I know it is to some).

 

I never really grinded the FPs and OPs so was never in the top gear but I know people who were. Now we can't buy gear with comms/crystals (whatever you want to call them) it's harder yes. But if you take that out and think about it as if we never had that ability.

 

Mob gear in general exploring and group content was randomly picked. Loots from bosses was randomly picked, the gearing crates added in KOTFE were randomly picked. Times when I played Flashpoints with others and got gears drop for a class that wasn't in the group was high. Yeah they did make the drops more appropriate eventually. But in my experience they still seemed random, only difference now between that and the older systems is that its now in magic boxes.

 

Bosses had loot tables- I wouldn't be getting junk and a gift from beating Kilrain.

 

The heroics boxes have (unless it's changed) 14 possible pieces.

 

Adding all the gifts, junk, schematics, orange shell sets, green and blue gear, purple, and gear with the set bonus? I'm betting that's a larger loot table than any boss has ever had in any MMO ever. Add in that there are almost two hundred levels until you even qualify for tier 3 gear and you can see why it's very different from the loot tables this game had in the past.

[Wayshuba]

I'm both relieved and saddened by this thread. Relieved because I'm not off my rocker in terms of what I was seeing for time & investment (which equaled a fair bit of dismay) after the 5.0 expansion. Saddened because - well because of the time and investment etc. I had hoped my math/conclusions were wrong but it seems they are not. The devs seem to place the faith on people wanting to 'win the lottery' and keep hoping for that 'cherry high'. Not for me at this level of time sink.

 

I played L2 when it first opened for almost 4 years. Grind? Ugh. The worst. Now SWTOR has done something similar. With all my alts looming in the background waiting for the same, added to the sadness of no returning old comps, I truly feel kicked in the teeth.

 

Having played SWTOR since opening day (beta technically) I didn't mind subbing for 3 months at a time. ATM I'm smack dab in the middle of my sub with 46 days left. I sadly made the decision to unsub and just did so.

 

I'll keep an eye on the game announcements. If they modify some of the RNG horror and or change the CXP gains to be a bit more reasonable to the day to day player with a life, I'll consider returning. I'll even resub if things really have been mitigated. In the meantime I'm doing the only thing a paying customer can. Offering a reasonable complaint without rant & rave and then removing my money (future monies to be specific) from their coffers. If enough people do - perhaps they will listen. The almighty buck is the ONLY leverage a consumer has - sad as it is.

 

Stay well all.

 

Yup. I like to do raids with my guild. Seeing the problems this is already going to create and how the RNG and grind has turned out to be much worse than even the most skeptical of us imagined, I have 30 days on sub left.

 

If BW fixes it in that time, then I may consider resubbing, if not, then it is time to move on.

 

Quite frankly, someone at BW should be fired for this. This is an Asian MMO grind (which are free in those MMOs, but which BW wants to charge you a sub for). This whole system reeks of ego and arrogance and is a complete insult to customers who have supported them with subs. I, for one, personally hope this costs them enough subs that the execs at EA look to hold someone accountable.

 

Thanks for messing up a good thing BW.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Wayshuba

[EightiesMonkey]

As people in reply to my earlier post have said. It is a different system but my point was there has always been some form of randomness to the loot.

 

Yes the Loot tables are now insanely large and we have a cat in hells chance of getting what we actually want. The examples I used were not the best. I am simply posting how it seemed to me with previous loot drops as I always seemed to get stuff I didn't need or endless dupes.

 

I completely understand why the new system is hated and I agree it should be fixed in some form be it a legacy version so it shared across all characters etc. or complete removal.

 

But as I posted I didn't do the grind or do FPs and OPs all that often if at all. So you probably all know more than me. There is no need to be an *** about when ive given my opinion and then said I agree that its not the best system but hey it's the internet so troll away!