Senya needs to go

[Teriaon]

I think you will have it. In the sense that we will be forced to accept it, its clear to me that they are going for a redemption story, and if the last time we had the "option" of killing Arcann is anything to go by then no there wont be a choice, it will just be something shoved clumsily down our throats like all the other bs of this expansion

[Shadowsentinel]

I find it surprising how much hate there is for Arcann, and Senya, Vaylin. But nobody ever mentions Valkorion. Hes the reason his children are the way they are. And why all of this is happening in the first place.

 

Any parent will do their best to save their children, no matter how hard they have hit rock bottom. I can't blame Senya for trying.

 

Valkorion ate an entire planet, ruined another, killed tons of people, brainwashing his daughter, making his children emotionally unstable.

I won't be surprised if we get the chance to kill Arcann, especially as kotfe/kotet is being wrapped up. But I hope not! I hope he'll be redeemed and become my forever LI!! ;D

 

Senya doesn't deserve to die imo, Vaylin can, I don't really care for her.

But I personally won't let anyone die as a pure LS SI.

 

Valkorion is not actively opposing us.

[fovzwk]

Valkorion is not actively opposing us.

 

That's what he wants you to think you fool.

Edited November 2, 2016 by fovzwk

[Emencie]

No one is talking about a out of jail free card, you know.

I don't think I've seen anyone here claim that Arcann is blameless and should be let go freely.

It's just that some believe it would be better if he lived and had to do as much as he could to make up for his actions instead of just killing him. Usually, these people (Myself including) believe that not enough is better than nothing at all (Because let's face it, Arcann can't bring back those who died because of him, but he can try and help rebuild what he's destroyed.)

And I'm pretty confident that we'll have a choice.

I doubt we will have a choice. I just don't see Bioware writing a redemption story, voicing it, and putting it in the game when many of us would choose to shoot Arcann in the face on sight, and not see any of that content.

 

As for the get out of jail free card, I tend to play my characters as realistically as possible. Because of that heinous criminals that also tried to kill me simply never would get a pass from that character. But further than this, the idea that a person can order the deaths of an uncountable number of people, kill an untold amount himself and commit tons of war crimes but not get punished at all because he turned "good" and did some community service is pure fantasy.

 

While I understand this is a fantasy game, in an IP made for children and as a society we really like the simple endings and a good redemption. The reality is that Arcann would be killed, or turned over to the empire or republic. Where he would be given at best a show trial, then definitely executed in the empire. In the republic he perhaps could be sent to a Belsavis like prison to spend the rest of his life, likely in solitude. No matter how often he told people he was now a good person that would not keep him from that fate. His death/incarceration would then be used as propaganda to help empower and uplift the people of the planets he nearly destroyed.

 

Personally I would love to see an Arcann return who tries his best to be a good person for his mother, even thinking that he's helping my Alliance by attacking his sister, and that he would be benevolent on the throne. But everything he does is skewed and misconstrued, and he proves to simply be hindering our attempts with horrific actions that we often have to clean up behind. He could be simply far too damaged to have basic empathy or understanding of why he is evil, no matter how hard he tries. Until we are forced to deal with him, making him a very tragic villain.

 

But I understand that a more realistic narrative like that is not a simple good over evil ending that the Star Wars movies are known for. However that doesn't change that some of us like the more realistic stories told in the EU, where good does not always triumph over evil, bad guys are not always one dimensional, and sometimes the end is bitter sweet at best, it helps make the characters feel more realistic to me. But I understand why people love the arcs where the bad guy suddenly sees the error of his ways, repents and is welcome as a good guy. It's heartwarming.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Emencie

[Keta]

And I'm pretty confident that we'll have a choice.

 

While I personally agree with your rationale, I honestly believe we've already made our choice as to whether this cartoon monster gets redeemed or whether he dies. If your characters shot at him: you will have no choice but to kill him.(Senya attacks etc after a few bits of dialog). On the other hand, if you choose to let them leave you'll be forced to accept Arcann and Senya back and back into your inner circle (in her case). Choices matter, as long as they're for the simplest reasons that BW thought of.

 

Hope I'm wrong though.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Keta

[Keta]

That's what he wants you to think you fool.

 

Thanks for the morning chuckle.

[casirabit]

I doubt we will have a choice. I just don't see Bioware writing a redemption story, voicing it, and putting it in the game when many of us would choose to shoot Arcann in the face on sight, and not see any of that content.

 

Depends on who you talk to. If you are referring to the forum that is a minority considering that most people don't come to the forums. In my guild I am the only one that comes to the forums because of the atmosphere of the forums but most of my guild haven't decided yet until it plays out. We are roleplayers and until the scene is before us we are not going to decide OOC what we are going to do until we see the scene.

Edited November 2, 2016 by casirabit

[Keta]

Depends on who you talk to. If you are referring to the forum that is a minority considering that most people don't come to the forums. In my guild I am the only one that comes to the forums because of the atmosphere of the forums but most of my guild haven't decided yet until it plays out. We are roleplayers and until the scene is before us we are not going to decide OOC what we are going to do until we see the scene.

 

Every time I started a new MMO I always vowed to not go to the forums for any reason. I never listened to that voice. And now look at me...

[casirabit]

Every time I started a new MMO I always vowed to not go to the forums for any reason. I never listened to that voice. And now look at me...

 

Lol I know. I said I would never go either but I do it for my guild to keep up with the updates.....

[Emencie]

Depends on who you talk to. If you are referring to the forum that is a minority considering that most people don't come to the forums. In my guild I am the only one that comes to the forums because of the atmosphere of the forums but most of my guild haven't decided yet until it plays out. We are roleplayers and until the scene is before us we are not going to decide OOC what we are going to do until we see the scene.

I just mean that we know ~45% of characters are DS, I just don't see Bioware spending time on a redemption arc/story/character scenes that 45% of the characters will skip over.

 

So I think that either he will have a story that we all see, and are shoehorned into, or Arcann will show up and we will be given the choice but he will have little impact on the rest of the story from that point on, so that the people who killed him will not have a completely divergent story to follow.

[josephinec]

Valkorion is not actively opposing us.

 

You're joking, right?

 

Valkorion may not openly oppose us, but he's a planet eating, power hungry, manipulative Force abomination. He does not care for anyone but himself. He is trying to get the player character to trust him so we can be Master Surro on steroids: a mere puppet, carrying out his will.

 

Senya got played, and Arcann and Vaylin drew the short end of the stick, to say the least. No, my characters aren't peaceniks who are going to buddy up to them, but when they learn more about how Arcann and Thexan were trained, and what happened to Vaylin, their hate and mistrust of Valkorion is going to go through the roof.

[Eshvara]

Valkorion is not actively opposing us.

 

Thanks for the good laugh.

[CorellianWannabe]

Thanks for the good laugh.

 

Let's see:

 

Valkorion- presumably directed the Sith Empire to attack the Republic and ate all life on a planet.

 

Arcann- attacked both the Sith Empire and Republic, bombed five planets to rubble, killed half his Force-users during one of his (many) tantrums.

 

I'd still take Valk at this point, as his body count is likely lower.

[SithKoriandr]

Let's see:

 

Valkorion- presumably directed the Sith Empire to attack the Republic and ate all life on a planet.

 

Arcann- attacked both the Sith Empire and Republic, bombed five planets to rubble, killed half his Force-users during one of his (many) tantrums.

 

I'd still take Valk at this point, as his body count is likely lower.

 

Seems you forgot the years (way more than Arcanns) that the Emperor was involved in, not only before KotFE, but before the start of the class story lines.

 

What did Valk do? He made puppets out of many a Jedi Master and the Knight (Knight story line) , took little kids and implanted his mind into theirs (Kira, Master Soro (sp?) and the other Children of the Emperor). Such and age difference between Kira and Soro, one must figure he'd been doing it for quite a while to many of them. It was even implied there were others we haven't seen.

 

You also act like Ziost was the only planet he ruined. Besides the ones before the start of the class stories, we have Taris we know he destroyed.

[Eshvara]

Let's see:

 

Valkorion- presumably directed the Sith Empire to attack the Republic and ate all life on a planet.

 

Arcann- attacked both the Sith Empire and Republic, bombed five planets to rubble, killed half his Force-users during one of his (many) tantrums.

 

I'd still take Valk at this point, as his body count is likely lower.

 

Thanks for another good laugh.. You're grossly uninformed about Vitiate, who Is also Valkorion(previous life/body) to the point that it's just insulting.

 

You should read some lore on wiki, then come back and tell us how you were wrong.

[Darth_Advent]

Everything related to Valkorion's family down to their favorite songs need to be completely erased so the storyline can just move away from the Sith Emperor... so long as this doesn't somehow bring Revan back.

[thebumpkin]

There seems to be a lot of opinion and differing view in this thread so I shall stick to the facts.

 

The first fact is the definition of traitor: "a person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle."

 

Senya fits that given one of the purposes of the Alliance was to dethrone Arcann and then bring him to justice. She betrayed one of the principles of the alliance, and depending on your choices, she also betrays you. Whether we should have expected is neither here nor there... the fact she's a mother and so forth, all are meaningless, she betrays you, that is a traitor. She had no intention of letting you capture or kill Arcann. And I don't count one good thrashing from me, as "he's paid for his crimes" no, he hasn't, not even close Senya. And what happened to bringing Arcann to Justice? Helping a criminal escape justice is called "Assisting escape" and that is a crime. So in addition to traitor, she's also a criminal.

 

I know people have said she's been helpful and she's done A, B and C to help you, which is also true. But SCORPIO also helped you as well, if only to further her own ends. Senya's entire intention was to make off with Vaylin and Arcann and disappear. Which is not really an ideal outcome for the purpose of the alliance as a whole.

 

The next fact, is that Vaylin is still alive / free because of Senya. Vayln's continued life and freedom is 100% down to Senya. She let Vaylin go free and/or didn't have what it takes to finish her. Capture of Vaylin would have been equally acceptable as death, Im sure there are some substantial brigs on the gravestone she could be put in or frozen in carbonite. But Senya deliberately and apologetically removed you from the fight which would have been fine had she the intention of seeing it through to the end, which she didn't. (Chapter 8)

 

The final fact I wish to point out is that Senya would always put her family first, and the Commander is a bloody moron for allowing her to go on the mission in chapter 16 in the first place.

[SerraShar]

Senya fits that given one of the purposes of the Alliance was to dethrone Arcann and then bring him to justice. She betrayed one of the principles of the alliance, and depending on your choices, she also betrays you.

 

and she did . The alliance dethroned Arcann . He isn't at the helm of the eternal fleet anymore .

 

So that is a goal done .

 

As for bringing him to justice . She actually never said ''NO! I won't let you bring him to Justice !!! He is innocent!'' She said and one could say gave the alliance a counter proposal : Let me turn him into the man he was mean to be .

 

Now as I see it is two fold : - if you consider her part of the alliance , then as member of the alliance she has the right to change one final goal . Sure , it may rub players the wrong way , but this isn't the Empire where sith rulez supreme .(and I do understand where players irritation is coming from . This whole alliance make us more like a Bystander where stuff happen and we have no control over anything . But there is wise leadership and being a control freak ) .

 

-If she isn't considered a member of the alliance , then she was always a potentiel Ally and she is going away with her own goal fufilled . Again it may come off ''She is going steal Kill !'' but if she isn't considered part of the alliance , the impact of said betrayer should be minim since she never swore an oath to uphold the Outlander words as if they were from God .

[Xilizhra]

100% down to Senya[/b]. She let Vaylin go free and/or didn't have what it takes to finish her. Capture of Vaylin would have been equally acceptable as death, Im sure there are some substantial brigs on the gravestone she could be put in or frozen in carbonite. But Senya deliberately and apologetically removed you from the fight which would have been fine had she the intention of seeing it through to the end, which she didn't. (Chapter 8)

I'm fairly sure that Vaylin would have squished Senya if she ever thought that her life was actually in danger; Senya might be better with a lightsaber, but could never have taken Vaylin using her full power alone.

[SerraShar]

I'm fairly sure that Vaylin would have squished Senya if she ever thought that her life was actually in danger; Senya might be better with a lightsaber, but could never have taken Vaylin using her full power alone.

 

Yeah , she was playing with her . Vaylin seemed to be there just for lolz and to tell her things she didn't know like about Thexan .

[Teriaon]

There cant be any question that Senya is a traitor and should at the very least be locked up, as for Arcann even if he shouldent be killed, which by all rights he should, At the very least he needs to be locked up as punishment for what he has done, all this talk of redemption is bull because you cant redeem someone who has done the things he has. He needs to be punished for his actions, instead of just being spirited away by dear old traitor mom, only to appear again as a 'changed man'

 

But the writing in this story being what it is, I find it highly unlikly that he will have to face any sort of consequence for his actions, far more likly is that we will just be forced to accept him into the allience come the next expansion, because the writers have lost all sense of how to do their job.

[casirabit]

You all have seem to forgot the Jedi Consular storyline dealing with people like

 

 

First Son- We never really know for sure how many people were killed while he was controlling Syo, a Jedi Master. Yet we had a choice whether to kill him or forgive him allowing him to continue to live.

 

 

 

Parkanas Tark- whom was Lord Vivicar and who really knows what damage he did while under the control of the dark lord. We had a choice there as well.

 

 

Senya is no different at least in the Jedi Consular's eyes than those two. The only problem here is some of us have already decided without hearing her side or even that of Arcann's side that they should die. We have become the exact thing the Emperor wants. It is understandable for the sith because most sith are after power and dark side but those of us that have Jedi how can we forgive two other people and then act like Judge and Executioner when Senya only wanted a chance to redeem her son. A person can be redeem, even Vader was redeemed by his son.

Edited November 3, 2016 by casirabit

[SerraShar]

You all have seem to forgot the Jedi Consular storyline dealing with people like

 

 

First Son- We never really know for sure how many people were killed while he was controlling Syo, a Jedi Master. Yet we had a choice whether to kill him or forgive him allowing him to continue to live.

 

 

 

Parkanas Tark- whom was Lord Vivicar and who really knows what damage he did while under the control of the dark lord. We had a choice there as well.

 

 

Senya is no different at least in the Jedi Consular's eyes than those two. The only problem here is some of us have already decided without hearing her side or even that of Arcann's side that they should die. We have become the exact thing the Emperor wants. It is understandable for the sith because most sith are after power and dark side but those of us that have Jedi how can we forgive two other people and then act like Judge and Executioner when Senya only wanted a chance to redeem her son. A person can be redeem, even Vader was redeemed by his son.

 

Redemption often well..come off as an insult to those who suffered .

 

Don't quote to me Vader , cose I never saw the movies and nor care to .

 

But I don't think Senya need redemption .

 

As for Arcann , he doesn't have that profile of ''fallen so hard it hurt.....weep weep....let's redeem him so he can glow in the dark '' .

 

It's the crappy writing that make one wanna strangle him so bad .

 

BUT..I always though Senya would pull a Samara . So far..she litteraly grabbed morinth and run off with her .

 

Maybe in Kotet...she do something that surprise us .

[SithKoriandr]

I never saw how Arcann had to be brought to justice. What justice? He didn't actually break any laws, to be brought to justice.

 

He continued a war, his father already started. He then won the war, with others not loving that he won.

 

Now, I'm not saying he was a great ruler or shouldn't be dethroned, but I'm missing the criminal aspect to him.

 

if anything, we're the criminals right now and it only changes if we win.

[SerraShar]

I never saw how Arcann had to be brought to justice. What justice? He didn't actually break any laws, to be brought to justice.

 

He continued a war, his father already started. He then won the war, with others not loving that he won.

 

Now, I'm not saying he was a great ruler or shouldn't be dethroned, but I'm missing the criminal aspect to him.

 

if anything, we're the criminals right now and it only changes if we win.

 

Justice..for the crimes of Bombarding those planets......killing the scion (although we could say it isn't our buziness) , for putting a star station above each of our planets . Hum..what else? oh yeah , for participating in the fall of the Empire and repb while you were snoozing in carbonyte .

 

And...if that's not good enough....

 

For harassement !!!! I never get to taste that Alysum cuisine.......instead I go get a mechanic , then meet Senya and get yelled at by lunatic and then he invade !!!! I was starving during that damn chase !

 

Then there is the fact he wear a mask..ok..so half of a mask . But I'm allergic to anyone who wear a mask......

 

You can't never tell when they are making jokes .

 

Ask Marr lol