Radzkie Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 (edited) I There are no ops. At least if there are no ops in 5.0 raiders can smother the last bit of hope they had left. Edited September 14, 2016 by Radzkie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypherz Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 (edited) The overtune of SMs was more responsible for the bad state of ops. Pugging SMs required achievements and then pugging stopped upon the spread of the exploit. If it couldn't pug at the level of SnV SM or even the Oricon ops, metrics were going to show a decrease from 2.x to 3.x. What happened with the design of the SMs is more pertinent to where we stand right now. Yes, that's what I was getting at. I re-read my rant and I didn't explain fully. The at the time new SM's were roughly at or just below the level of previous HM's leading to the lack of people doing them either because of the difficulty, pug groups requiring achievements, or both. You also had problems like the pug killer bosses being in the middle of the raids instead of at the ends. Ravagers being the second boss and ToS being the third. I don't know why Bioware does this in most of their ops, it still puzzles me to this day. It wasn't until way later on that they were nerfed to a level where they were on par with most of the other fights. But at that point it was too little too late. Edited September 14, 2016 by Cypherz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamtas Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I believe Zorz quit before the ops announcement. I think it was tied to Monolith giving out 204 MH which was greater than the MH drop for Revan...of course a variety of other stuff too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueShiftRecall Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 (edited) The at the time new SM's were roughly at or just below the level of previous HM's leading to the lack of people doing them either because of the difficulty, pug groups requiring achievements, or both. Ah yes, brings back memories of seeing fleet chat full of people asking for all boss achievements for SM ToS and Ravagers. Didn't have that SM Underlurker achievement then you might as well not even bother trying to join a PUG. Got NiM achievements on other OP's...nah man SM Underlurker achievement or you're not joining our exclusive PUG group. Edited September 14, 2016 by BlueShiftRecall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwarzchild Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 (edited) Just wanted to add that bioware was specifically told that the operations difficulty was too hard for most average raiders by the members of zorz. But, as is the usual case the feedback went in one ear and out the other. It's also probably true that operation participation dropped substantially in 3.0. its why we criticize the use of metrics so heavily. Bioware seems to get that they give the snap shot of what people are doing currently, but they seem to always be missing the why portion. It leads me to believe that this situation raiders are in currently is completely biowares own making out of a plan, or arrogance, or ignorance, or what have you. It's why I still claim that this whole thing was avoidable. They just needed to act faster then and they need to act faster now. Years going by isn't going to paint the ideal picture ever. It should highlight how important effective communication can be. Edited September 14, 2016 by Shwarzchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Just wanted to add that bioware was specifically told that the operations difficulty was too hard for most average raiders by the members of zorz. But, as is the usual case the feedback went in one ear and out the other. It's also probably true that operation participation dropped substantially in 3.0. its why we criticize the use of metrics so heavily. Bioware seems to get that they give the snap shot of what people are doing currently, but they seem to always be missing the why portion. It leads me to believe that this situation raiders are in currently is completely biowares own making out of a plan, or arrogance, or ignorance, or what have you. It's why I still claim that this whole thing was avoidable. They just needed to act faster then and they need to act faster now. Years going by isn't going to paint the ideal picture ever. It should highlight how important effective communication can be. Brilliantly stated!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Do you really think BW make their design choices based on the feedback of the same 30-40 ppl who are constantly raging on the forums no matter what BW does? I think they are on the right path, so who's right? Those 30-40 ppl are probably the only subs left in the game xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Those 30-40 ppl are probably the only subs left in the game xD Besides, it's not even the point whether they are going in direction A or B, but the simply fact that they don't explain clearly whether it's A or B. If they had said a year ago they were abandoning operations and that they were going to do other things instead that would've been one thing. Leaving people wondering whether it's going to be A or B is just not really honest. It's the lie of omission in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Rest assured Eric would really like to say more and bring the discussion on the forums. Right now his tasks as communication manager sucks. Sucks? I mean he is the community manager, payed to talk to the community, which he doesnt even do, so he is payed for doing nothing, thats great!! Can Bioware hire me for that too?? Ill make one forum post a week, i promise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Besides, it's not even the point whether they are going in direction A or B, but the simply fact that they don't explain clearly whether it's A or B. If they had said a year ago they were abandoning operations and that they were going to do other things instead that would've been one thing. Leaving people wondering whether it's going to be A or B is just not really honest. It's the lie of omission in my view. Well actually they did say that, they did say they will focus on story so we cant argue about that...... however, since its an MMO people did also expect some group content to be tied with that story. Apparently, people thought wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Ooh, I wonder if this one will get betrayed by Scorpio and fail to stop Arcann! Does your boss know that you waste time on EA fora white-knighting instead of working? I am on forums ONLY when im at work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I have an interesting theory that somewhat relates to this. Might just be me putting on the tinfoil hat but whatever, no harm in sharing it. Very nicely put and I agree, sadly that is how it was, Bioware does look at the statistics and they clearly said, people dont do ops so we have what we have now. However, what i hate about them is how they were influencing the statistics themselves. They forced many achievment hunters to do KOTFE over and over again for achievments. Like Eternal Championship, has to be done with 8 classes which all need to do KOTFE till chapter 9, LvsD event, do KOTFE full etc. They made a crapy expansion with just story and needed to show good numbers so they forced ppl to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaconik Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Every time you all mention metrics I just think about this wonderful lines: Now, these points of data make a beautiful line. And we're out of beta, we're releasing on time! (Still Alive from Portal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiltonium Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Brilliantly stated!!! Am I missing something? What OP is too hard for the average player? All the SMs can be played by blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaconik Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Am I missing something? What OP is too hard for the average player? All the SMs can be played by blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patients. They can't as was repeatedly stated. Some groups take more than 3 hours to clear Dread Palace SM. Some people were complaining about it in other sections. Maybe basic attack needs boost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celise Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Hey Dev-Team, Over the last 5 years, we saw a large influx of no official information. I wanted to remind you, that not posting informations in a timely manner is bad community work and leads to the community relying on datamined information. This post is meant to serve as a general reminder of this. If you are unsure if something should be announced, just do so and tell us that it's subject to change. Thanks for your understanding. That could be seen as Bioware employee impersonation the way you wrote that up. You should be more careful as to how you vent your frustrations. Bioware won't release anything until they are ready to. in early October during the latest cantina i expect the reveal of KOTET and some other information. wait until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torvai Posted September 14, 2016 Author Share Posted September 14, 2016 (edited) That could be seen as Bioware employee impersonation the way you wrote that up. You should be more careful as to how you vent your frustrations. You came to that conclusion on your own? Or did somebody tell you? It's called sarcasm. Bioware won't release anything until they are ready to. in early October during the latest cantina i expect the reveal of KOTET and some other information. wait until then. And again, I'd bet real money that the information we officially get won't be as complete nor in a as good format as we got it from the dataminers. Besides I'm not criticicing the changes they make, most of them are perfectly fine, but the lack of and the art of communication. No one wants to get spoiled about story, they can keep that to themselves. But details about gameplay changes and stuff like that should be revealed way earlier than 2-3 months before an expansion goes live. Additionally I hope they learn from their past mistakes and not release the xpac and then go on a two month vacation again, leaving the game in a utterly broken and bugged mess for months. Edited September 14, 2016 by Torvai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajuratus Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I hope they learn from their past mistakes and not release the xpac and then go on a two month vacation again, leaving the game in a utterly broken and bugged mess for months. I wouldn't put any money on that. Granted, I hope you're right, but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I wouldn't put any money on that. Granted, I hope you're right, but still... yeah, they'll probably drop it at 20th december and be gone from the office until 3-4 january Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celise Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 You came to that conclusion on your own? Or did somebody tell you? It's called sarcasm. The lowest form of wit huh? when you come back with a better answer is up to you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torvai Posted September 14, 2016 Author Share Posted September 14, 2016 The lowest form of wit huh? when you come back with a better answer is up to you . I won't. I like it down here, where I can barely see the level from below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 They can't as was repeatedly stated. Some groups take more than 3 hours to clear Dread Palace SM. Some people were complaining about it in other sections. Maybe basic attack needs boost Do you guys remember that video where Titan 6 enraged at 48% on Storymode? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Do you guys remember that video where Titan 6 enraged at 48% on Storymode? :D "I'm Trash. Because a NIM player said so." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Am I missing something? What OP is too hard for the average player? All the SMs can be played by blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patients. yeah and then these patients post their requests for nerfs on the forums xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDebris Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 The lowest form of wit huh? But the highest form of intelligence. (the quote, source unknown, is erroneously credited to Oscar Wilde, but the full quote is "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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