Sorc heals now REALLY need adjustment.

[Cretinus]

It's no longer a matter of fine tuning. Sorc heals are a liability for PvP, people are quitting matches because of the frustration that it is to have to fight them. They are too strong. It's too much.

[AshlaBoga]

Alas for PvE they were balanced, but according to changes they will be balanced for PvP in 5.0 and bad at PvE.

[Romansonesix]

The only complaint for pve they have on the forums is that they have to manage their resources in hm. They are over performing at both. Ops aren't suppose to be face roll easy in hm.

 

If force management on a seer is tough, try it on sabo or serenity, where management is key and there is no spammable regen button.

 

I hope they nerf sages into swtor death, I'm so sick of seeing them.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Romansonesix

[Icykill_]

It's no longer a matter of fine tuning. Sorc heals are a liability for PvP, people are quitting matches because of the frustration that it is to have to fight them. They are too strong. It's too much.

 

It's all being addressed in 5.0, apparently

 

So just hang out till then, there is no way they are going to adjust anything till then

[VixenRawR]

It's all being addressed in 5.0, apparently

 

So just hang out till then, there is no way they are going to adjust anything till then

 

Only adjustment sorcs need is a superheated silver stake shaped as a cross soaked in garlic sauce through the heart.

 

 

Just in case...

[BlueMarmalade]

Sorc/sages will be nerfed too much iun 5.0. Pretty much every ability gets reduced, so the healing and dmg output over a match will be greatly reduced. If this means you can basically 1v1 a healer then it's broken.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Rumored changes of ANY kind are far too late A whole season dominated by 1-2 classes ... yeah.

 

"Tell me what rank you got in which season and I'll tell you what class you played back then."

[VixenRawR]

Sorc/sages will be nerfed too much iun 5.0. Pretty much every ability gets reduced, so the healing and dmg output over a match will be greatly reduced. If this means you can basically 1v1 a healer then it's broken.

 

Imo every dps class should be able to 1 v 1 a healer and win. Should it be simple? No. Heals are a support class and require a tank, taunts and dps peels...all around support for team play. Stealth should always excel at 1 v 1. It's what they do. Assissins in games, lore, real life are supposed to excel at taking out a single target. An op should not be about surviving it should be about high burst. Swtor has ruined stealths main purpose; which is low survivability and high burst. Their defense is being hidden, thats how they should survive.

 

So in no way, shape or form should any healer survive a 1 v 1 no matter what. (Equal skilled of course) only team support should keep a healer alive. Not saying a healer should face plant within 15 seconds of combat. However it should be forced to LoS, cc and over strategy to prevent dps from killing them right away. It should be hard, not standing in place spamming heals as you face tank a dps.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Imo every dps class should be able to 1 v 1 a healer and win.

 

Except Operatives ?

[Icykill_]

With 5.0, just be prepared for them to break most classes with stupid changes, over buffing and nerf hammering too far. It happens every expansion because they don't test in a real environment with enough real players. There is too much spread sheet data and algorithms and not enough playing.

 

With in a week we will have all new FOTM classes. People will be calling for nerfs left, right and centre. There will be so much reason to ledgitmately QQ on the forums, that Bio should give us a supply of Kleenex.

 

I'm not sure what the new FOTM classes will be. But you can be sure all the less skilled or lazy players will jump on them straight away instead of learning how to play their current class properly under the new meta.

 

Waiting for expansions always makes me nervous. You read all the rumours, hear all the speculation and see all the forum arguments for and against nerfs and buffs of peoples favourite class, wether they are OP or UP.

Plus I know by now that Bio will completely "f" it up. They've done it with every expansion since launch. I zero confidence they won't do it again.

 

The only advice I can offer is to just wait. We really don't know what they will end up giving us. Mining only shows data and not always correct data. It doesn't show how it will effect game play when live, it's just a bunch of numbers. Once it goes live we'll all test it. Tell Bio what's broken, they won't listen or they'll partly listen and 3 mo the from now they muck it all up again.

[Kazz_Devlin]

Only adjustment sorcs need is a superheated silver stake shaped as a cross soaked in garlic sauce through the heart.

 

 

Just in case...

 

Kill dem bubble Princess's the only class that should be allowed to be stab stab stab stab stab stab stab stun stab stab stabbed by ops!

Edited September 12, 2016 by Kazz_Devlin

[BlueMarmalade]

Imo every dps class should be able to 1 v 1 a healer and win. Should it be simple? No. Heals are a support class and require a tank, taunts and dps peels...all around support for team play. Stealth should always excel at 1 v 1. It's what they do. Assissins in games, lore, real life are supposed to excel at taking out a single target. An op should not be about surviving it should be about high burst. Swtor has ruined stealths main purpose; which is low survivability and high burst. Their defense is being hidden, thats how they should survive.

 

So in no way, shape or form should any healer survive a 1 v 1 no matter what. (Equal skilled of course) only team support should keep a healer alive. Not saying a healer should face plant within 15 seconds of combat. However it should be forced to LoS, cc and over strategy to prevent dps from killing them right away. It should be hard, not standing in place spamming heals as you face tank a dps.

 

If no healer should survive 1v1, then imagine if he got targeted by two, he would die in seconds. You haven't thought that through. Healers need to be strong or they would be useless and no one would play them. Why would anyone play healers if they couldn't do anything alone?

[AlrikFassbauer]

If no healer should survive 1v1, then imagine if he got targeted by two, he would die in seconds. You haven't thought that through. Healers need to be strong or they would be useless and no one would play them. Why would anyone play healers if they couldn't do anything alone?

 

There is a school of thought believing that a Healer should indeed die within seconds, if not guarded.

[Schoock]

Imo every dps class should be able to 1 v 1 a healer and win. Should it be simple? No. Heals are a support class and require a tank, taunts and dps peels...all around support for team play. Stealth should always excel at 1 v 1. It's what they do. Assissins in games, lore, real life are supposed to excel at taking out a single target. An op should not be about surviving it should be about high burst. Swtor has ruined stealths main purpose; which is low survivability and high burst. Their defense is being hidden, thats how they should survive.

 

So in no way, shape or form should any healer survive a 1 v 1 no matter what. (Equal skilled of course) only team support should keep a healer alive. Not saying a healer should face plant within 15 seconds of combat. However it should be forced to LoS, cc and over strategy to prevent dps from killing them right away. It should be hard, not standing in place spamming heals as you face tank a dps.

 

Should DPS just drop dead at the sight of any attacker too? Or just healers, cuz we hate them (except when they're saving our pretty behinds of course, in which case we just love healers)?

[Saikochoro]

If no healer should survive 1v1, then imagine if he got targeted by two, he would die in seconds. You haven't thought that through. Healers need to be strong or they would be useless and no one would play them. Why would anyone play healers if they couldn't do anything alone?

 

A healer should not survive a 1v1 against a dps. The dps shouldn't faceroll the healer, but through proper use of cc and damage it should win the 1v1 every time if equally skilled. Why might you ask? Because of tanks.

 

Heal + tank > 2 dps easy

Heal + tank > tank + dps

 

Heals synergize with tanks so much that 1+1 is much greater than 2. Two dps can synergize with each other, but not to near the same degree. If a healer can outlive 1 dps without support, then it makes dps pretty much worthless. Especially in objective based pvp. Right now a healer can face tank a dps and still heal the team with aoe. They don't really have to kite unless there are at least 2 dps on them. If they have a tank, then they don't even have to try at all while several dps wail on them. Healers are much too self sufficient (mainly just sorcs).

 

The reason there are so many matches with multiple healers and multiple tanks is because of how strong they are. Healers should require tanks and peels. If they are too self sufficient it trivializes heals, tanks, and dps.

 

Many dps are too self sufficient as well. They should require heals to support and keep them alive longer. Tanks are dealing too much damage. They should require dps to put out enough pressure to drive the enemy back.

 

But in a 1v1 a dps should win against a healer. This is not the case right now and is one of the biggest reasons why pvp is so F'd up right now. (And no it's not all healers...we all know which ones are the problem).

Edited September 13, 2016 by Saikochoro

[BadHoneyBadger]

It's all being addressed in 5.0, apparently

 

So just hang out till then, there is no way they are going to adjust anything till then

 

How is this so? The class change preview only showed them losing 2.4% off 1 of 5 heals while on the other hand dps classes are losing 3+ abilities @ 2-5% dmg each. So they nerf dps 6%+ while nerfing sorc heals 2% and this is addressing the issue?

As a side note I am also kindof outraged that Assassin is losing Phase Walk and Sorc is not, ffs it started as a Sin only ability.

[VixenRawR]

Okay first off all of the below obviously don't understand anything. Which of course makes sense because I have rarely seen a post by any of them that mattered.

 

If no healer should survive 1v1, then imagine if he got targeted by two, he would die in seconds. You haven't thought that through. Healers need to be strong or they would be useless and no one would play them. Why would anyone play healers if they couldn't do anything alone?

 

How in the world did you tie in healers not surviving a 1 v 1 into dying in seconds? Absolutely no one except trash. Omg imagine if...please lets not imagine and just say exactly what you want to say. No one can survive a 2 v 1 on equal terms so its a worthless concept to imagine. (But Sensei 2 healers can't kill another healer...) *rolls eyes* Moving on.... Healers are useless and need a strong? So a healer should be able to face tank 3 dps without a guard or LoS or any actual effort besides spamming heals? Yeah that's the current meta that is sorc heals. Play another class and get back to me. It is obvious you don't play swtor or understand actual teamwork or balance at all.

 

I am just curious, what do you plan on doing with your healer alone? Soloing a guardian on a off node? Healers are team support that is their purpose.

 

There is a school of thought believing that a Healer should indeed die within seconds, if not guarded.

 

School of thought? What school...obviously one that doesn't think period...so your school. I'd love to see a quote where I said a healer should die in seconds? Or even anything implying a healer should only last a few seconds.

 

Should DPS just drop dead at the sight of any attacker too? Or just healers, cuz we hate them (except when they're saving our pretty behinds of course, in which case we just love healers)?

 

I can't believe I am replying to your post as it is more useless than the other two. So now dps are just dropping dead. I assume you mean by /stuck after entering combat? Also I can't answer your question because it's not even a question. Your behind is pretty....what????

 

As I said no healer should live through a 1 v 1. That means a duel like situation. A healer should not be able to spam heals and FOREVER live against a dps. This doesn't mean that halfway through their second cast they face-plant under the pressure of one dps. They should survive just as long as most classes do in a 1 v 1 granted they won't be able to offer any real damage as they are a healer class. (Which means survivability might go up with extra kiting) I don't really expect them to drop dead in 15 seconds but they shouldn't live for two minutes either or forever.

 

Anyone who does 1 v 1 and plays well will know it's not going to be a 10 second fight and since healers only have to kite and heal they will be able to prolong. What they shouldn't be able to do is stand there yawning as they spam heal. Yes I understand that operating your mouse and spamming S is beyond your wildest dreams and capabilities but you should be forced to try in a 1 v 1 as a healer.

 

There is a reason why people never left heals to guard...granted those memories are fading as a sorc healer is probably thee BEST guard in the game. Every class regardless of spec should be able to guard efficiently enough with communication and support for it to matter though.

 

Even in a 1 v 2 situation any class can put up a fight for a decent time and depending on skill and classes (As in reality all 3 will never be quite the same) it may be possible to kill one before dying. However do you honestly think sorc heals should just survive forever ...im guessing you think they should just win a 1 v 1 as well.

 

"But Sensei we can do everything else why not?"

 

I doubt I will ever read any of your posts and even try to draw any sort of useful information. I am sure if I looked hard enough I would fine QQ posts from the above 3 about ops 2 shottting them and stunlocking them in the same duration.

 

What a waste of time, probably all have 6 sorc healers and sages that they rotate between because the focus gets hard.

[AlrikFassbauer]

School of thought? What school...obviously one that doesn't think period...so your school. I'd love to see a quote where I said a healer should die in seconds? Or even anything implying a healer should only last a few seconds.

 

I've seen it. But it would take some time to dig it out, because they seem to be a minority.

 

 

My main has always been a Gunslinger. I basically gave up doing PvP with that, because I never managed to survive with that one for long ... And knowing I could never improve, too.

 

Having played Sages be4fore 4.0, I have been an advocate rtowards "Sages shouldn't be that squishy". A don't even like that kiting stuff. But nowadays, kiting is what all classes are forced to - unless guarded. Which *might* explain why there are so many tanks and Sorcs around nowadays : People just *want* survivability. They simply don't want to see their toon to die that fast - especially not because of high burst.

Edited September 13, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[BlueMarmalade]

How in the world did you tie in healers not surviving a 1 v 1 into dying in seconds? Absolutely no one except trash. Omg imagine if...please lets not imagine and just say exactly what you want to say. No one can survive a 2 v 1 on equal terms so its a worthless concept to imagine. (But Sensei 2 healers can't kill another healer...) *rolls eyes* Moving on.... Healers are useless and need a strong? So a healer should be able to face tank 3 dps without a guard or LoS or any actual effort besides spamming heals? Yeah that's the current meta that is sorc heals. Play another class and get back to me. It is obvious you don't play swtor or understand actual teamwork or balance at all.

 

As I said no healer should live through a 1 v 1. That means a duel like situation. A healer should not be able to spam heals and FOREVER live against a dps. This doesn't mean that halfway through their second cast they face-plant under the pressure of one dps. They should survive just as long as most classes do in a 1 v 1 granted they won't be able to offer any real damage as they are a healer class. (Which means survivability might go up with extra kiting) I don't really expect them to drop dead in 15 seconds but they shouldn't live for two minutes either or forever.

You forget that the dps in the 1v1 situation against the healer is not risking death either. You seem to have a child like anger of not being able to solo healers that it completely clouds the larger picture. If a good dps is on a sorc/sage it WILL significally hamper his healing output. The same way that people want healers to only be effective when other classes synergizes with them in terms of protection, the same applies with dealing with them in terms of cc and cooldown management. How specifically do you propose to make your utopian dream come true? The only way I see it is by making healers run out of force and not being able to get it back so easily during a fight. I think that would be hard to implement, risking to ruining both pve and pvp support healing for medium to long fights.

[Schoock]

You're talking an awful lot of trash here.

 

Okay first off all of the below obviously don't understand anything. Which of course makes sense because I have rarely seen a post by any of them that mattered.

 

Not as if any post would matter on these forums, but yours' seem to be awfully full of BS along with that other guy with whom you seem to be doing your crusade against destroying healers in PvP just so that you can mindlessly go and derp around like the bads you are.

 

So a healer should be able to face tank 3 dps without a guard or LoS or any actual effort besides spamming heals? Yeah that's the current meta that is sorc heals. Play another class and get back to me. It is obvious you don't play swtor or understand actual teamwork or balance at all.

 

I'd very much like to see some videos where 1 sorc healer facetanked 3 dps alone and lived, assuming the dps played at least minimally decently? (i. e. not like the dumb trash that Snave posted in his latest video)

 

If you think that's possible, a) either your whole server is full of bads, I mean literally every single DPS on your server is utter trash b) or your server is full of the world's best sorc healers, far, far and by far more skilled than any on TRE. Because I can tell you that NO healer on my server can facetank 3 even remotely acceptable DPS and live. No. None. Absolutely nobody.

 

I am just curious, what do you plan on doing with your healer alone? Soloing a guardian on a off node? Healers are team support that is their purpose.

 

Maybe that. I'm also curious what do you plan on doing with your DPS alone? Soloing a guardian on a off node? Why is it so obvious to you that DPS should be able to 1vs1 anything else, but healers (with the very limited amount of damage they can output) should not? What is this "team support" thing? Are you implying that healers, even though they are, by normal game design, less in numbers than DPS, should also be inferior?

 

What if I say that tanks and healers are the main players of the team, they form the backbone of any group and DPS are just support players whose jobs are to help and peel for them? I can also make ridiculous statements about how role balance should be. And, to be honest, they aren't any more stupid than yours are.

 

I can't believe I am replying to your post as it is more useless than the other two. So now dps are just dropping dead. I assume you mean by /stuck after entering combat? Also I can't answer your question because it's not even a question. Your behind is pretty....what????

 

Going back to school and taking the lower grades again might help you interpret what I wrote, as 2, structurally relatively simple sentences seem to prove problematic for you.

 

As I said no healer should live through a 1 v 1. That means a duel like situation. A healer should not be able to spam heals and FOREVER live against a dps.

 

As I said no DPS should 1 v 1 a healer. That means a duel like situation. A DPS should not be able to spam damage and kill a healer in the time it would take to kill a DPS.

 

If you want any rationale (though you seem to be absolutely fine with just pronouncing your ridiculous points of view without providing any reasoning about them), it's that a DPS is able to fight back and do damage, probably killing the attacker, while a healer (in your imagination) is just a no-threat parsing dummy for DPS that is just bound to die after a period of time without posing any threat at all.

 

Yes I understand that operating your mouse and spamming S is beyond your wildest dreams and capabilities but you should be forced to try in a 1 v 1 as a healer.

 

I don't even have movement keys keybound. They're not needed for facetanking.

 

There is a reason why people never left heals to guard...granted those memories are fading as a sorc healer is probably thee BEST guard in the game. Every class regardless of spec should be able to guard efficiently enough with communication and support for it to matter though.

 

So once again you're saying that tanks are DPS are fine to guard, but healers should not be able to, because they should be just inferior to any random DPS wandering around. Also, every role of every class in the game is able to guard long enough for help to arrive. Those classes that make pretty bad guards do not do so because healers are op, but because with the amount of CC in the game they are easily capped. If anything, this calls for a nerf to stealthers' CC, not to healers.

 

Even in a 1 v 2 situation any class can put up a fight for a decent time and depending on skill and classes (As in reality all 3 will never be quite the same) it may be possible to kill one before dying. However do you honestly think sorc heals should just survive forever ...im guessing you think they should just win a 1 v 1 as well.

 

A Sorc healer cannot, alone, survive 2 DPS forever, not even in the current meta, unless those DPS are bad. Period. And an 1vs1 must either end in a stall (as it happens in a healer vs anything with selfheals case) or someone must win it. The reason why healers are (and should be) winning it is because there are a lot more DPS than healers in a well balanced group, so if we want to uphold some kind of balance, it should be in favor of the underrepresented role, i. e. healers.

 

I doubt I will ever read any of your posts and even try to draw any sort of useful information. I am sure if I looked hard enough I would fine QQ posts from the above 3 about ops 2 shottting them and stunlocking them in the same duration.

 

Your posts stink of "omg i can't global a sorchealer with my oper let's go whine on the forums for a nerf". And what I (or any of the above posters) play is irrelevant. Your posts are full of dumb hyperboles that you do not even spend the effort to justify.

 

What a waste of time, probably all have 6 sorc healers and sages that they rotate between because the focus gets hard.

 

And I have 1 Sorc healer and 0 sages. 2 if you count different servers, one of which I play for about 20 minutes every 2 months.

[VixenRawR]

*yawn*

 

I don't really care what two dps is brought to the table they cannot beat a sorc healer in any timeframe.

 

And yes implying equal skill as people still want to point out that one side is bad and the other is good. I have solo'd plenty of trash healers. I have killed every single spec in this game in under 10 seconds and that is mainly the massive skill gap that is in place. People not using cc, dcds or just giving up.

 

Skill is one of the biggest factors but you cant speak skill in one hand and class balance in another.

 

Sorc heals have proved themselves time and time again that in a 1 v 2 they will never die unless you add in all the extranalities such as skill, lag, map placement, cooldowns and so on. There are so many factors in a warzone only a bad sage healer would lose in a 1 v 2. You know why? First their heals are far superior than a single classes dps. Second their utility make it almost impossible to stay ontop of a sorc and keep sustained burst going...and a sorc has 3 cc escapes and will easily be able to evade the other 2 dps. Also besides that point a warzone has 16 players at what point will 2 dps be fighting a sorc healer for 10 mins without interference?

 

But it's pointless to argue because dps can kill sorc in one second right?

 

20 minutes are probably all you spent in pvp and that was waiting in que.

 

Believe what hou must but it's your exact mindset that had got us where we are today. 2 years of sorc god heals.

 

The entire point of mmos and classes is not to create a masterclass that does it all. It's supposed to create teams as classes are designed to balance each other out. There is a reason why tanks/heals/dps sre sought out separately because they each bring something to the table. If sorc heals were meant to dps and tank then every OP group in pvp and pve would be nothing but teams of 8 sorc healers. (Luckily it isnt that bad...yet) but the concept had been tested. Why team with a tank and heals when you can have 2 sorc healers?

 

But I suppose you can preach more about master sorcs as you pant faithful with your head resting in EAwares palm.

Edited September 13, 2016 by VixenRawR

[BlueMarmalade]

Believe what hou must but it's your exact mindset that had got us where we are today. 2 years of sorc god heals.

You are certainly not giving any incentive to change that with your lack of arguments and immauture attitude.

[merovejec]

i dont know, but i havent seen anything in the 5.0 changes that would make a class FOTM so far, there are defencives buffs on some toons that seen OP, but onthing that would increase the dmg output or so.

 

Most have reflective shields like the Vanguards, thats true, overall i see 5.0 as a big PVP update on the classes.

[AdjeYo]

The problem with sorcs isn't really how much they're healing for. Their single target burst isn't as strong as that of a merc, but they make up for that by having great healing on the move and not as much susceptibility to interrupts.

The problem with sorcs is that they have cc beaker, bubble and phasewalk to escape stuns, sorcs should've never gotten phasewalk. So to fix them, get rid of phasewalk, that should be a good start.

Edited September 13, 2016 by AdjeYo

[Tsetso]

The problem with sorcs isn't really how much they're healing for. Their single target burst isn't as strong as that of a merc, but they make up for that by having great healing on the move and not as much susceptibility to interrupts.

The problem with sorcs is that they have cc beaker, bubble and phasewalk to escape stuns, sorcs should've never gotten phasewalk. So to fix them, get rid of phasewalk, that should be a good start.

 

So just remove phase walk from the game?